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Joseph
07-25-2007, 11:10 AM
Rumor mill excitement for this Wednesday for all to enjoy:

-The Yanks are in on Conine. More interest is always better. Let's roll out the welcome mat for an A-ball arm.

-Texieria to the Braves seem likely. Saltalamacchia and an arm the likely 'windfall'. These are the kinds of deal Cox and co always manage to pull out of their hat. I wouldn't be shocked to see Big Tex re-up with the Braves despite talk of wanting to play in Baltimore.

-Octavio Dotel for Wilson Betemit? Maybe so. Depends on how much the Dodgers want the reliever.

-The Mariners might deal Richie Sexon to make room for Adam Jones in the OF. I'm sure the Reds are in on this deal </sarcasm>

-Konerko might be on the move to the Halos, which would spell doom for any Dunn to LA rumors. They are our best match in my opinion, so if anyone wants Dunn gone, they'd better root for the Pale hose not to do this deal.

-The Nats are supposedly looking to add seasoned vets who project at 'A' type compensation free agents, just for the draft picks. Interesting strategy....I guess.

-The Yanks aren't interested in trading Joba Chamberlain. He's only a notch below Phil Hughes [supposedly] in Cashman's eyes. If a team is interested in prospects from the Yanks, start with Tabata apparently as Joba is off the table.

-Robinson Cano for Jon Garland anyone? How many times have we heard Garland for Griffey? Maybe Kenny Williams finally makes a deal instead of just blathering on and on about Ozzie Guillen.

-Kielty is an option to replace Wily Mo Pena in Boston. Oh my how the mighty have fallen.

-Livan Hernandez is on the block....AGAIN.

-The Braves still want another pitcher. Apparently Wayne and JS don't have one anothers cell phone numbers, or Kyle Lohse can't be pawned off at all.

-Jermaine Dye to the Brewers? How many OFers does one team need?

-Manny Delcarmen is available, Wayne must be salivating at the thought of another bullpen move.

-The Mets want Conine too. Apparently the loss of Julio Franco skewed their age too young and they miss someone getting a discount at Denny's.

-The Phillies want Lohse, but won't give up much. Well thats ok, we didn't give up much to get him, so why not.


Discuss, enjoy, roll your eyes.

Chip R
07-25-2007, 11:20 AM
I had a dream the other day - well not necessarily a dream - but I woke up convinced that the Reds traded Dunn to the White Sox.

TOBTTReds
07-25-2007, 11:28 AM
-The Nats are supposedly looking to add seasoned vets who project at 'A' type compensation free agents, just for the draft picks. Interesting strategy....I guess.


I personally think it is a great strategy, as long as you don't get stuck with them by offering arb. But knowing Washington, I don't think players will accept.

smith288
07-25-2007, 12:35 PM
I had a dream the other day - well not necessarily a dream - but I woke up convinced that the Reds traded Dunn to the White Sox.
You mean a nightmare? ;)

KoryMac5
07-25-2007, 12:59 PM
The Yankees are going to bring Chamberlin up depending on how his next start goes and put him in relief. He has a great fastball and Cashman believes he will be a nice addition to the pen.

Haven't heard much about Konerko, if that trade is made the White Sox would have really dismantled that roster from the team that was their a couple of years ago.

As far as Dunn goes I think he stays put, that contract scares away too many teams. Lohse, Connine and maybe Stanton and Weathers will be moved.

RedsFan75
07-25-2007, 01:11 PM
Hah! The way it's going, I'm not real convinced anyone gets moved.


Sorry, my skepticism is showing!:rolleyes:

Red Leader
07-25-2007, 01:15 PM
Hah! The way it's going, I'm not real convinced anyone gets moved.


Sorry, my skepticism is showing!:rolleyes:


I agree. As the deadline approaches I'm thinking it's less and less likely anyone will get moved. I think it's almost certainty that Dunn or Jr. won't get moved. I thought at one time that at least one of those two would go, not anymore. Also, I'm not sure that Weathers will get moved. He has a pretty affordable option for next year and the Reds need him badly in the pen. Stanton, I don't think has any suitors, if he does, he'll go. Conine will likely go. Hatteberg, I don't think, will go. That's going to leave us with LH 1B Hatteberg and LH 1B Votto in September and possibly next year. How do you split up those starts unless you plan on getting rid of Dunn this offseason?

Ltlabner
07-25-2007, 01:15 PM
The Reds find themselves in the same place they were at the start of the month, sitting on commodities that they think are more valuable than everyone else does. I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but the idea that this is a pure seller's market isn't true. There's a very limited group of teams that need Ken Griffey, Jr. and none of those--save the Cubs--are on his list of places he'd go. Adam Dunn is willing to go anywhere, knowing he'll cash in on the free agent market if he's dealt, but thus far, no one has met Krivsky's price; given what I'm hearing, I don't think that price is coming down. The Reds have spurned any feelers on David Weathers, and are trying to push Todd Coffey instead.

From todays "The Mill" on BP.com.

I really don't understand the last sentence, assuming it's true. That's just a plain head scratcher.

Guacarock
07-25-2007, 01:18 PM
I had a dream the other day - well not necessarily a dream - but I woke up convinced that the Reds traded Dunn to the White Sox.

If the Reds don't trade Dunn before the July 31 deadline, I can see them trying to swing a late season or off-season deal with the White Sox involving 3B Joe Crede. Crede is still on the DL now, but due back in action sometime in September. He would give the Reds the legitimate RH power bat now lacking from the middle of the lineup, plus presumably improve the 3B defense -- if his back injuries haven't slowed him down enormously. EE's long-term tenure at 3B does look a little shaky. And the White Sox aren't that beholden to Crede, after having already broken in his replacement -- Josh Field.

Red Leader
07-25-2007, 01:21 PM
From todays "The Mill" on BP.com.

I really don't understand the last sentence, assuming it's true. That's just a plain head scratcher.

Not really a head scratcher, IMO. Weather's has a very affordable option for next year. It would be kind of stupid for the Reds to trade him and then look for someone exactly like him (for the same $) this offseason. Might as well keep him. As for Coffey, I think the Reds have soured on him and regret handing out his contract. They're trying to pawn those dollars off on someone else now by building him up to be "a young David Weathers." I bet they're hoping by stating that, he'll net more than he's worth. I doubt it works.

BrooklynRedz
07-25-2007, 01:26 PM
If the Reds don't trade Dunn before the July 31 deadline, I can see them trying to swing a late season or off-season deal with the White Sox involving 3B Joe Crede. Crede is still on the DL now, but due back in action sometime in September. He would give the Reds the legitimate RH power bat now lacking from the middle of the lineup, plus presumably improve the 3B defense -- if his back injuries haven't slowed him down enormously. EE's long-term tenure at 3B does look a little shaky. And the White Sox aren't that beholden to Crede, after having already broken in his replacement -- Josh Field.

Your love for Joe Crede -- an injured Joe Crede at that -- is odd. Your desire to deal Adam Dunn for said Joe Crede is hella strange.

Ltlabner
07-25-2007, 01:26 PM
Not really a head scratcher, IMO. Weather's has a very affordable option for next year. It would be kind of stupid for the Reds to trade him and then look for someone exactly like him (for the same $) this offseason. Might as well keep him. As for Coffey, I think the Reds have soured on him and regret handing out his contract. They're trying to pawn those dollars off on someone else now by building him up to be "a young David Weathers." I bet they're hoping by stating that, he'll net more than he's worth. I doubt it works.

I'm up in the air about Weathers. He's done well this year, certinally better than I thought he would. I don't have too much issue if they bring him back, but to "spurn any feelers" on him? Is he that hot of a commidity that they wouldn't even listen to any offers? Maybe it's just the phrase the author used, but if that's true it's weird that of all people he'd be on the "untouchable" list to the point they wouldn't even discuss him with other teams.

As far as Coffey goes this is a horrable time to try to trade him. He needs some serrious development. Hire a special coach for him. Send him to Louisville with a full assurance that he will be on the team next year and let him get his head together (instead of sending him down for a week). Make it a special mission to get the kid's head on straight. He's got tallent. He's young. He's inexpensive. Why sell low on him? If they get a great return, by all means send him packing. However, I can't believe he'll garner much in return now.

If he comes back in 2008 and stinks then do what you can. The return then will be just as bad as it is now. Why not give a potenally viable asset every last chance before giving up on him?

Kc61
07-25-2007, 01:27 PM
If the Reds don't trade Dunn before the July 31 deadline, I can see them trying to swing a late season or off-season deal with the White Sox involving 3B Joe Crede. Crede is still on the DL now, but due back in action sometime in September. He would give the Reds the legitimate RH power bat now lacking from the middle of the lineup, plus presumably improve the 3B defense -- if his back injuries haven't slowed him down enormously. EE's long-term tenure at 3B does look a little shaky. And the White Sox aren't that beholden to Crede, after having already broken in his replacement -- Josh Field.

Reds can't trade Dunn in the off-season. He will be a free agent or, if the Reds exercise his option, he will have a no-trade, according to reports.

They can trade him until 8/31 if he clears waivers. Hard to see him clearing, though, because someone would simply have to pick up his contract for the rest of this year, which many teams would do (without having to trade for him).

As for Weathers, people want to trade him, but keep in mind that next year the Reds will have to cover all nine innings with pitchers in each game. Better have a good replacement in mind.

KoryMac5
07-25-2007, 01:28 PM
Rosenthal just on The Beat with Steiner. He says Dunn will get dealt he just doesn't know where. The picture still is very unclear. The Nationals have indeed expressed interest but don't have much to offer. The Angels clearly want someone else but may come around to Dunn if they can't get Konerko. The Yankees have Giambi coming back and they view Dunn as a Giambi clone.

Red Leader
07-25-2007, 01:30 PM
I'm up in the air about Weathers. He's done well this year, certinally better than I thought he would. I don't have too much issue if they bring him back, but to "spurn any feelers" on him? Is he that hot of a commidity that they wouldn't even listen to any offers? Maybe it's just the phrase the author used, but if that's true it's weird that of all people he'd be on the "untouchable" list to the point they wouldn't even discuss him with other teams.



You're forgetting who you are dealing with here (Krivsky) and his fetish for the bullpen. The bullpen will once again be one of the main focuses of the offseason and I can just picture Krivsky crying imagining himself going into next year without Weathers, screaming "Why?!? Why did I trade you and your $3M salary. I want you back!! I need you back, David!!"

RedLegSuperStar
07-25-2007, 01:35 PM
on one hand I like Krivsky asking for the moon for his players... but sometimes you have to weed through the organization and look at who will be here next year and who's not.. With the who's nots.. get something for them. You got to move either Conine or Hatteberg to make room for Votto (yes I'm aware of his recent slide in AAA), Kyle Lohse should be moved even with the downfall of Belisle (who will no doubt now be moved to the pen), and if you are protecting Weathers and ponying up Coffey instead what faith does that show in your youth especially one who was touted as a future closer (mark my words Weathers is a shell of his self next year.. think Stanton version 2007)..

Wonder what kind of roll Bob Castellini is playing in this years deadline...

Roy Tucker
07-25-2007, 01:38 PM
I agree. As the deadline approaches I'm thinking it's less and less likely anyone will get moved. I think it's almost certainty that Dunn or Jr. won't get moved. I thought at one time that at least one of those two would go, not anymore. Also, I'm not sure that Weathers will get moved. He has a pretty affordable option for next year and the Reds need him badly in the pen. Stanton, I don't think has any suitors, if he does, he'll go. Conine will likely go. Hatteberg, I don't think, will go. That's going to leave us with LH 1B Hatteberg and LH 1B Votto in September and possibly next year. How do you split up those starts unless you plan on getting rid of Dunn this offseason?

I think that's a pretty good take on it.

Junior is finally healthy and is playing as well as his body now allows him. I think WK has been underwhelmed by offers for Dunn.

Keeping Weathers makes some sense from the standpoint of they have to have somebody in the pen that can get people out.

Stanton is an interesting case. That at-bat last night with Ryan Braun was very telling and also fascinating. Stanton pulled out his entire bag of tricks to try to get the righty Braun out. He tried everything, in, out, fastball, change, slider, curve, he just could *not* get Braun to miss a pitch when he needed it badly. I think it was about the 11th pitch, Braun singled into LF. When he got to 1B, he let out a real whoosh after battling Stanton. I think Stanton is pitching about as well as he can now. The problem is, he's lost some of his stuff and just can't get guys out like he used to. Bad signing IMO.

The Conine-Hatteberg-Votto logjam is tough. Hatteberg is the exact kind of hitter the Reds need, someone who makes good consistent contact. The rest of the lineup is a bunch of free-swingers where it is HR or nothing. Hatteberg makes good contact, gap power, and has a good eye. But with the LH Votto coming up, a platoon doesn't make sense. As much as I hate, I'd still trade Hatteberg contingent on getting good value back.

And Conine is the proverbial pro and gives a solid effort, but it looks like his heart isn't in it any more and is playing out the string. I doubt they'll get much for him.

Danny Serafini
07-25-2007, 01:41 PM
mark my words Weathers is a shell of his self next year

People have been saying that for several years now, but it just doesn't happen. He's the best reliever this team has, and somebody has to hold things down while the youngsters develop. If a great offer comes my way then I'll deal him, but I like having him back next year.

KronoRed
07-25-2007, 02:02 PM
I had a dream the other day - well not necessarily a dream - but I woke up convinced that the Reds traded Dunn to the White Sox.

For Ozzie?:devil:

Sabo Fan
07-25-2007, 09:24 PM
There's several guys on this current Reds team that I think have a decent level of trade value in this market, but the way it's looking I doubt if anyone more prominent than Conine or Lohse gets dealt.

The most frustrating thing about this current Reds team is that as I look up and down the roster, I don't see a team that is beyond repair. With a few tweaks and the addition of a #2 or #3 starter and one more reliable bullpen arm, this team could be interesting. Now, that #2 starter isn't going to be found in this market so there's no point in looking, but there could be opportunities to land a couple of young, high-upside bullpen arms or aquire some position players who could add much needed depth to this organization. Think about what the Padres did today by dealing away Linebrink. They added two things: young pitching depth and trading chips, all at the same time. Krivsky needs to see if Weathers or Lohse or Conine could possibly net a haul that, while it may not be as impressive as the one for Linebrink, accomplishes the same objectives.

RedLegSuperStar
07-25-2007, 09:49 PM
Grudzielanek Leaves Game

A friendly emailer tells me that Royals second baseman Mark Grudzielanek was in the original lineup, but was scratched at the last minute. Joe Girardi says he may be headed to the Mets. We'll keep you posted. And now back to my sweet n' sour chicken.

- MLBTradeRumors.com

NJReds
07-25-2007, 10:07 PM
He'd be a good fit for the Mets.

Falls City Beer
07-25-2007, 10:14 PM
There's several guys on this current Reds team that I think have a decent level of trade value in this market, but the way it's looking I doubt if anyone more prominent than Conine or Lohse gets dealt.

The most frustrating thing about this current Reds team is that as I look up and down the roster, I don't see a team that is beyond repair. With a few tweaks and the addition of a #2 or #3 starter and one more reliable bullpen arm, this team could be interesting. Now, that #2 starter isn't going to be found in this market so there's no point in looking, but there could be opportunities to land a couple of young, high-upside bullpen arms or aquire some position players who could add much needed depth to this organization. Think about what the Padres did today by dealing away Linebrink. They added two things: young pitching depth and trading chips, all at the same time. Krivsky needs to see if Weathers or Lohse or Conine could possibly net a haul that, while it may not be as impressive as the one for Linebrink, accomplishes the same objectives.

This team needs to replace at least two of the fifth-starter-level arms in their rotation. And with Weathers either leaving or seeing a decline in his production by next season, I'd say at least three very high powered bullpen arms are needed.

And what's distressing is that there are no in-house candidates for any of that next season, as it stands right now.

Falls City Beer
07-25-2007, 10:23 PM
I wonder if the Brew Crew would send back Kentucky boy Corey Hart for Dave Weathers and stuff.

oneupper
07-25-2007, 10:28 PM
I wonder if the Brew Crew would send back Kentucky boy Corey Hart for Dave Weathers and stuff.

With Dunn and Hart at 6' 6" and Hamilton at 6'5". That would be one TALL OF.

REDREAD
07-25-2007, 10:57 PM
It's crazy to not listen to offers for Weathers next year.
This team is not even close to competing next year, unless Cast is going to somehow dump the money vault (doubtful).

Weathers is getting up in age. For God's sake, sell high if the opportunity is there. Even if Weathers was guaranteed to be good next year, so what? It's going to be a lost season next year as well.

I'm losing more faith in Wayne.. He's probably spurning offers for Stanton as well :lol:

Scrap Irony
07-25-2007, 11:00 PM
Sell everything you can.
Grab as many high ceiling prospects as you can, no matter how far away from the majors they may be.
Hope like Hell to get lucky three or four times.
Endure multiple 100 loss seasons.
Draft high and well.
Make astute decisions regarding holes in the construction of your team.

Weathers should be one of the first to go, IMO.

Hoosier Red
07-25-2007, 11:09 PM
Lose 100 for 4 seasons, that will sell well.

While I don't disagree with the premise, Castellini and Krivsky came in behind the 8 ball because the Reds fans had already seen that trick three times.

IMO its time to go beyond getting lucky.
They have to open up the vaults and at the very least get 2 quality relievers.
If they keep Weathers the pen can have;

Burton
Bray
Coutlangus
New Reliever
New Reliever
Weathers

That should be three guys who are young and improving, two quality veterans and Weathers. More importantly it would keep a number of reasonably close guys on hand at Louisville(Dumatrait, Medlock, Salmon, McBeth)

From there scrap the rotation behind Harang, Arroyo, and Bailey.
If Livingston is having to fight for a spot, that will again give the Reds some depth which they haven't had in a while.

RedLegSuperStar
07-25-2007, 11:36 PM
Turns out Grudz is just day-to-day with soreness. Two Royal false alarms today, sorry about that.

- MLBTradeRumors.com

Scrap Irony
07-25-2007, 11:37 PM
I have no problems with Burton, Bray, Coutlangus, and a whole host of new free agent relievers. (Good ones, I hope.) What I have a problem with is the idea that Cincinnati is one or two players away from competing.

They're not.

Weathers is a set-up man. And a fairly average one at that. He should be moved if he can garner a high ceiling arm or two. Both Hatteberg and Conine are veterans that should be jettisoned, as Votto is ready and waiting in AAA. They serve little purpose (though both have played well).

Here's where it gets tricky.

IMO, both Dunn and Junior should be shopped (as should everyone on the team). Junior is 37 and cannot be built around as an offensive cornerstone. Bruce is about half a season from readiness and Hamilton is capable of taking over in RF right now (assuming health). Dunn, to a lesser extent, should also be made available. He's still young, but his cost is prohibitive, espcially considering Bruce and Hamilton are ready and much, much cheaper alternatives.

Could you play Hamilton, Bruce, and Dunn in the same OF?

Sure.

However, that's three LH bats with high K totals. Combine that with Votto-- a fourth LH bat-- and you begin to see the problem.

The Reds are short two starting pitchers, three relievers, and a leadoff man. There is little in the pipeline to address any of these concerns, as Cueto is at least a year away. That means free agency or trades. Since free agents are so cost prohibitive, you may grab one or two for help. That's it.

That means you have to find three pitchers and a leadoff man from somewhere other than the minor leagues.

Can't be done, IMO.

So, you rebuild. Deal what you can-- Junior, Dunn, Weathers, Stanton, Hatteberg, Conine-- in the hopes of plugging those holes. Deal with the attendance now, in the hopes of it rebounding when a truly good team is on the field. Make intelligent signings.

That's what I'd do, anyway.

LoganBuck
07-25-2007, 11:44 PM
Stupid Stat?

Reds have won the last 80 games they have led AFTER the 8th inning.

How and why?

RedLegSuperStar
07-25-2007, 11:51 PM
Stupid Stat?

Reds have won the last 80 games they have led AFTER the 8th inning.

How and why?

Danny Graves no longer pitches in the 8th and 9th inning