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WVRedsFan
07-28-2007, 12:28 AM
The official attendance at tonight's game was 36,635. From the sound of things, 20,000 were Cubs fans. How many acutally lived in the Reds drawing area? And what does that say about the fans of the area?:)

I've never been so disgusted with a home game. To see those blue-clad Cubs fans sitting in the scout seats clapping and booing made me sick

BCubb2003
07-28-2007, 01:25 AM
"They're not saying 'boo' ... they're saying 'Lou'. "

KronoRed
07-28-2007, 01:44 AM
1907 :D

BCubb2003
07-28-2007, 01:56 AM
1907 :D

The third base side chants "19!" and the first base side chants "07!"

dougdirt
07-28-2007, 02:34 AM
fella's I hate to break it to you, but its 19-08. Sure,the Cubs won it in 1907 too, but 1908 was the last time they won the WS. 1945 was the last time they were even in the WS. I hate the Cubs. Even more, I hate their 'fans'.

MrCinatit
07-28-2007, 07:32 AM
Most teams blame their lack of post season success on lousy management, bad plays, crummy players - sometimes even bad umpiring.
I only know of one team which blames its history on a freaking goat.

creek14
07-28-2007, 07:45 AM
I've been to several Reds/Cubs games in Cincinnati. If the attendance is 36635, the number of Cubs fans is 36600, or so it seems. It's disgusting. But you have to give them credit, they support their poor excuse for a team through thick and thin. And thinner. And thinnest.

Chip R
07-28-2007, 07:59 AM
I've been to several Reds/Cubs games in Cincinnati. If the attendance is 36635, the number of Cubs fans is 36600, or so it seems. It's disgusting. But you have to give them credit, they support their poor excuse for a team through thick and thin. And thinner. And thinnest.


It's not that bad. Last night I'd say it was about half and half. When they put the Cubs lineups on the video board, there was as much booing for each player as there was cheering. And at the end of the game, those 35 fans sure put up a ruckus. ;)

redsmetz
07-28-2007, 08:09 AM
The Reds area bumps up against both the Cubs and the Cardinals' drawing areas. It's been this way for years. Unfortunately, I think for a bit, the Reds gave up on some of their out circle of their fan base, hence areas like Terre Haute, IN or Evansville, even slightly north of Indy now lean towards Chicago or St. Louis (and they most likely often blended either way in those towns).

The same now is true of Cleveland - we gave up a lot of Reds country during Marge's years and those folks are Indians fans. And you see a huge contingent of Indians fans at Reds' games when they play. Of course during the years that the Jake was selling out, our games were the only way they could see the Tribe play.

I don't see it as much with Pirates fans and I've always found it curious that the Reds claimed as much of West Virginia as they do because it's so much closer to Pittsburgh.

The plus side - tickets sold are tickets sold - it all helps us afford a better team!

GAC
07-28-2007, 08:10 AM
It's not that bad. Last night I'd say it was about half and half. When they put the Cubs lineups on the video board, there was as much booing for each player as there was cheering. And at the end of the game, those 35 fans sure put up a ruckus. ;)

Exactly. This is overplayed IMO. There was obviously far more Red fans there then Cubs. And we stuck it to them with a 5-4 win, so that is all that matters. ;)

But I don't fault them for coming out and supporting their team wherever they might play.

And I don't think I'm wrong in saying that the Reds have some strong following around this country and in various other cities too.

RedsBaron
07-28-2007, 08:13 AM
fella's I hate to break it to you, but its 19-08. Sure,the Cubs won it in 1907 too, but 1908 was the last time they won the WS. 1945 was the last time they were even in the WS. I hate the Cubs. Even more, I hate their 'fans'.

The Cubs are about to complete their 100 year rebuilding plan.

RedsBaron
07-28-2007, 08:17 AM
The Reds area bumps up against both the Cubs and the Cardinals' drawing areas. It's been this way for years. Unfortunately, I think for a bit, the Reds gave up on some of their out circle of their fan base, hence areas like Terre Haute, IN or Evansville, even slightly north of Indy now lean towards Chicago or St. Louis (and they most likely often blended either way in those towns).

The same now is true of Cleveland - we gave up a lot of Reds country during Marge's years and those folks are Indians fans. And you see a huge contingent of Indians fans at Reds' games when they play. Of course during the years that the Jake was selling out, our games were the only way they could see the Tribe play.

I don't see it as much with Pirates fans and I've always found it curious that the Reds claimed as much of West Virginia as they do because it's so much closer to Pittsburgh.

The plus side - tickets sold are tickets sold - it all helps us afford a better team!

In the 1970s the Reds had a larger geographic fan base, reaching well down into Tennessee.
Not all of West Virginia is closer to Pittsburgh than to Cincinnati. In the Huntington area you are only about 2 1/2 to 3 hours from Cincinnati, while Pittsburgh is about 5 1/2 to 6 hours away. I've always thought of Charleston as being roughly the dividing line between Reds country and Pirates country in W. Va.
It always used to irritate me when the Applebee's across the street from my office had a section displaying Pirates memorabia and nothing on the Reds. I always wanted to tell the local manager than he should give his bosses a geography lesson.

oneupper
07-28-2007, 08:49 AM
REDS fans outnumber CUBS fans in Venezuela by a large margin. (well, it's something).

WVRedsFan
07-28-2007, 09:48 AM
I don't see it as much with Pirates fans and I've always found it curious that the Reds claimed as much of West Virginia as they do because it's so much closer to Pittsburgh.

For the record, it's 251 miles from my house to Pittsburgh and 306 miles to Cincinnati. Not that much difference.

If there are still any Pirate fans in WV, it's mostly in the Morgantown-Wheeling area and I still know a lot of Reds fans in both places. My biggest fear over the years is that our team would morph into the Pirates and it looked like that was going to happen earlier this year. Happily, we've stopped that. I hope.

Pittsburgh is a Steeler town. Folks decorate their houses around the Steelers year round. How the Pirates have survived escapes me. I once walked up to the ticket stand 5 minutes before the start of a game and got tickets behind the Reds dugout in the first row. And me and the wife were the only ones in the section.

WVRedsFan
07-28-2007, 09:51 AM
In the 1970s the Reds had a larger geographic fan base, reaching well down into Tennessee.
Not all of West Virginia is closer to Pittsburgh than to Cincinnati. In the Huntington area you are only about 2 1/2 to 3 hours from Cincinnati, while Pittsburgh is about 5 1/2 to 6 hours away. I've always thought of Charleston as being roughly the dividing line between Reds country and Pirates country in W. Va.
It always used to irritate me when the Applebee's across the street from my office had a section displaying Pirates memorabia and nothing on the Reds. I always wanted to tell the local manager than he should give his bosses a geography lesson.

Applebees here did the same thing so I did go to the manager and ask why. He told me that upper management got with MLB and they told them it was Pirate country. Since my brother-in-law is in management with Applebees, I talked to him and he told me that all I had to do was send a letter to the home office and protest there. I did. They didn't even answer me. I don't eat at Applebees anymore.

RedsBaron
07-28-2007, 09:58 AM
Applebees here did the same thing so I did go to the manager and ask why. He told me that upper management got with MLB and they told them it was Pirate country. Since my brother-in-law is in management with Applebees, I talked to him and he told me that all I had to do was send a letter to the home office and protest there. I did. They didn't even answer me. I don't eat at Applebees anymore.

Several years ago the Lazarus department store (now Macy's) in Huntington had a section displaying Pirates memorablia. You would think that a major corporation, to say nothing of MLB, would know the area better.
Meanwhile, a few years ago I switched from cable TV to Dish Network because my cable company gave me FOX Sports-Pittsburgh, with all the Pirates baseball I could want, rather than FOX Sports Cincinnati, with Reds games.
There a lot more Reds fans than Pirates fans in the Huntington area. The news media, both print and broadcast, in the Huntington area are Reds, not Pirates, oriented. Why MLB, cable TV, Applebee's and Lazarus/Macy's couldn't figure this out amazes me.

paintmered
07-28-2007, 10:29 AM
Several years ago the Lazarus department store (now Macy's) in Huntington had a section displaying Pirates memorablia. You would think that a major corporation, to say nothing of MLB, would know the area better.
Meanwhile, a few years ago I switched from cable TV to Dish Network because my cable company gave me FOX Sports-Pittsburgh, with all the Pirates baseball I could want, rather than FOX Sports Cincinnati, with Reds games.
There a lot more Reds fans than Pirates fans in the Huntington area. The news media, both print and broadcast, in the Huntington area are Reds, not Pirates, oriented. Why MLB, cable TV, Applebee's and Lazarus/Macy's couldn't figure this out amazes me.

Not to mention that Macy's (formerly Federated) is headquartered in Cincinnati.

BrooklynRedz
07-28-2007, 10:54 AM
Exactly. This is overplayed IMO. There was obviously far more Red fans there then Cubs. And we stuck it to them with a 5-4 win, so that is all that matters. ;)

But I don't fault them for coming out and supporting their team wherever they might play.

And I don't think I'm wrong in saying that the Reds have some strong following around this country and in various other cities too.

Went to the series finale of the recent Reds visit to Shea and the number of fans in Reds caps and jerseys was astonishing. In fact, there was a whole family in Kearns and Lopez jerseys. Seriously.

Hap
07-28-2007, 12:05 PM
Went to the series finale of the recent Reds visit to Shea and the number of fans in Reds caps and jerseys was astonishing. In fact, there was a whole family in Kearns and Lopez jerseys. Seriously.

Did you see any Deion Sanders jerseys? Believe it or not, at Opening Day in Cincy this year, I saw several.

KronoRed
07-28-2007, 12:13 PM
fella's I hate to break it to you, but its 19-08. Sure,the Cubs won it in 1907 too, but 1908 was the last time they won the WS. 1945 was the last time they were even in the WS. I hate the Cubs. Even more, I hate their 'fans'.

DOH!

Misread the lines over at Baseball Reference

Blimpie
07-28-2007, 12:58 PM
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39463000/jpg/_39463228_bartman-ap-203body.jpg

BrooklynRedz
07-28-2007, 02:35 PM
Did you see any Deion Sanders jerseys? Believe it or not, at Opening Day in Cincy this year, I saw several.

No. That's hysterical. Not as hysterical as Deion's op-ed in support of Vick, but hysterical nonetheless.

vaticanplum
07-28-2007, 05:53 PM
I agree that the split was about half and half last night. The difference is that the Cubs fans are a lot more vocal when they don't have reason to be. The Reds fans got loud when the team did well. Cubs fans are loud all the time. Walking through the concourse, they're loud. They try to provoke.

Yankees fans get a bad rap...Cubs fans really are the worst fans in baseball as far as I'm concerned. And that's a real shift; that's within the last ten years I'd say, definitely within my lifetime. Actually, they may have started getting bad around 89. They used to really play up the lovable losers angle, which is annoying but not appalling. Now they're just vulgar. They're a lot angrier than they used to be. It's like they all get injected with testosterone. It's too bad, I know a couple of Cubs fans who are true blue, wonderful baseball fans, but even they get annoyed with their own race.

WVPacman
07-29-2007, 12:05 AM
Guys the last two games have just made me sick to my stomich.To see all those cubs fans out numbering the HOME STANDING Reds fans is just rediculous.It feels like we are playing on the road for god sakes.I know the reds stink this year but when they play at home and yet they feel like they're the away team then something needs to change.

The reds fans should learn something from the cubs fans!!! The cubs have sucked for years and hav'nt won a WS in 98 years YET they keep coming to every game and supporting the cubs every game.Reds won a WS in 90 and when they started losing the reds fans quit going to games and thats a shame.

I know it will never happen but I really would like to see the reds fan base be more like the cubs fans.If the reds are losing every year like they are I would like to see more reds shirts,reds hats go to every game and support their team.

These last two games have really showed me how many of the reds fans have quit going and thats really depressing to watch.When the reds are playing at home and they're more fans there supporting the team that the reds are playing is just sad.:(

Sorry for the rant but I had to get it off my chest!!!!

fearofpopvol1
07-29-2007, 12:10 AM
Keep in mind, the Cubs have played much better this decade than the Reds and really, their fanbase didn't grow overly rabid until after the 2003 season when they nearly made the World Series.

Maybe if the Reds performed similarly, you'd see more fans in the ballpark. Chicago is also a MUCH bigger city than Cincinnati.

WVPacman
07-29-2007, 12:20 AM
I don't know but I do remember those years the cubs stunk yet wrigley would still be sold out or close to it.Whether Chicago is a bigger state or not that still should'nt stop GABP from getting sold out or close to it but thats just my opinion.

Phhhl
07-29-2007, 12:49 AM
It will never happen. The superstation and a number of factors associated with their chronic losing, the decripit old ballpark and the number of celebrity fans singing their praises have made them the most embarassingly popular franchise in baseball. You can't even get Reds games IN CINCINNATI without purchasing cable, and the biggest celebrity fans we have are Charlie Sheen (who reputedly got Reds players laid by convicted felon Heidi Fleiss's flock and has his own nefarious image) and Foster Brooks (who made a fortune portraying a drunk). If you do sattelite or Direct TV, Fox Sports Net isn't even included in the basic package. We've lost the network of radio stations that carried games years ago.

I never would have dreamed as recently as the early 90's that the same franchise that produced the Big Red Machine and some of the greatest position players the game has ever known would be steamrolled by the machinery of pop culture. But, that is what has happened to us and roughly 80% of the rest of baseball that does not reside in the major media markets of this country.

I have a feeling I would have an entirely different set of the complaints if my beloved Reds were represented by the legion of fools and freaks I see emerging from the cold ground every time the Cubs come within range of the division lead, only to go back into hibernation when they invevitably fail.

GAC
07-29-2007, 06:28 AM
I agree that the split was about half and half last night. The difference is that the Cubs fans are a lot more vocal when they don't have reason to be. The Reds fans got loud when the team did well. Cubs fans are loud all the time. Walking through the concourse, they're loud. They try to provoke.

I disagree that it was anywhere near a 50-50 split though. I think their loudness and being more vocal makes many feel there are more Cub fans there then in reality. Not saying they don't come out strong in support for the team when in Cincy. They do. But I think they are well outnumbered by Red fans.

They are just more obnoxious.

GAC
07-29-2007, 08:45 AM
Guys the last two games have just made me sick to my stomich.To see all those cubs fans out numbering the HOME STANDING Reds fans is just rediculous.

Can you, or anyone else, give evidence that the Cub fans outnumbered the Reds fans at GABP?

I was at the game Friday, and while there was alot of Cub fans, there is no way, just because they are vocal and more obnoxious, that they came even close to outnumbering Red fans.

And it's not a reflection on Red fans, as far as their loyalty and/or dedication, just because Cub fans come out for the games in Cincy. I find that rather insulting whenever anyone insinuates that.

But these rants, every time the Cubs come to GABP, are simply hilarious.


Whether Chicago is a bigger state or not that still should'nt stop GABP from getting sold out or close to it but thats just my opinion.

:lol:

919191
07-29-2007, 08:51 AM
The only difference between a Cubs game at GABP and a Marlins game at GABP is the Cubs fans occupy the seats that would remain empty during the Marlins game. The seats occupied by thise wearing red hats would remain pretty similar, I think.

wheels
07-29-2007, 10:05 AM
Cubs fans are the worst.

No one should ever want to emulate them.

smith288
07-29-2007, 11:12 AM
The reason the cubs have sucked for so long is because their fan base continues to fork over their money for a steaming pile of crap product so why should the ownership ever change anything? Sure they spend money but history has pretty much chronicled their lousy operations.

I blame their failures on their nonchalant fanbase for not demanding winning by various revenue impacting methods.

Chip R
07-29-2007, 11:13 AM
The only difference between a Cubs game at GABP and a Marlins game at GABP is the Cubs fans occupy the seats that would remain empty during the Marlins game. The seats occupied by thise wearing red hats would remain pretty similar, I think.


That's a great point.

As for emulating Cubs fans, let me give you something to chew on for a while. There's no real right or wrong answer here but it's just something to think about.

No one can argue that Cubs fans support their team both on the road and at home through thick and thin for better or worse. But the Cubs have been criticized for not caring about putting a winning product out on the field. After all, if you are going to draw 3M people every year regardless of the product, why try to improve it?

Here in Cincinnati we have seen both the Bengals and Reds go through tough times on the field during this decade. Bengals fans stopped going to games as much about 5 years ago. Some feel that spurred Mike Brown to make the changes he did to bring in Marvin Lewis. And the rest is history. The team has performed better, games are pretty much sold out, Bengals fans are happy for the most part.

We've also heard suggestions on here and elsewhere that Reds fans should stop going to Reds games becuse the product on the field has been sub-par since 2001. They feel that the lack of attendance will force Bob to make changes much as it did Mike Brown. That certainly is something to consider since the Reds rely on attendance for a great portion of their revenue. They don't get the TV and radio deals other teams do. I'm not even sure how much they get as far as revenue sharing goes. Probably less than Kansas City and more than Colorado. So would a lack of attendance force Bob to put a winner on the field or would it make him pull back the reins because there's no attendance money to spend on payroll?

It has been said that Cubs fans go to Wrigley just for the party atmosphere. That doesn't sound like a good fan to me. It sounds like you could just open the place up, sell beer and food without a game and still 15K come there. On the road is a different story. You have to believe that the fans that show up for road games are better fans. There's no party atmosphere like there is at Wrigley. Of course there's still beer to drink but they could stay at home and do that. Does that make them better fans than Reds fans? Maybe but I have witnessed in person Reds fans turning out in droves Reds-Cubs series in Chicago. The series I was at set an all time 4 game attendance record in Wrigley at the time and there was a lot of red in that stadium. You think Cubs fans were happy about all those Reds fans at those games? The Reds were just a couple of years removed from an appearance in the NLCS while the Cubs had been floundering since 89. The situations are reversed now.

One more thing to consider. When Cubs fans go to games in Cincinnati, they help the Reds out financially. Is that something a good fan should do? Should they put their money in the pockets of their rivals?

This is a long standing debate. Are you a good fan if you show up no matter what or are you a good fan by withholding your support until your team is a winner?

camisadelgolf
07-29-2007, 12:15 PM
The Reds could be an 0-162 team, and I'd still be in love with them. To me, games aren't all about winning.

KronoRed
07-29-2007, 12:36 PM
To me, games aren't all about winning.

You've obviously been a Reds fan for awhile :evil:

camisadelgolf
07-29-2007, 01:46 PM
You've obviously been a Reds fan for awhile :evil:

It's a cycle. The complacency from losing led me to alcohol, and the alcohol led me to more complacency. :beerme:

vaticanplum
07-29-2007, 07:31 PM
I disagree that it was anywhere near a 50-50 split though. I think their loudness and being more vocal makes many feel there are more Cub fans there then in reality. Not saying they don't come out strong in support for the team when in Cincy. They do. But I think they are well outnumbered by Red fans.

They are just more obnoxious.

I'm almost positive it was about 50-50 Friday night -- maybe 60-40 in favor of Reds tops. I was stationed in one place the whole night and had a perfect view of everybody walking in and out of the gates. More cubs fans seemed to stay after the rain delay too, probably because they have fewer options of places to go than people who can just turn around and go home (most people did stay though; I give them credit for that.) In perfect fairness, most of the Cubs fans were quite respectful. They had a silent majority too, GAC; they weren't all loud by a long shot.

On a side note, what baffles me most is the familial splits. I noticed quite a few of them: for example, a Cub fan parent and Red fan parent with a kid of each. It always reminds me of that line from High Fidelity about a music freak who gets together with a Simple Minds fan: It's not the attraction that baffles so much as how on earth they got together in the first place.

I agree with Chip's thoughts about Cubs fans mostly. I'm not impressed with people who endlessly support that franchise. I'm not talking about those people who are really with the team through thick and thin because they're die-hard fans; the Cubs do have those. I'm talking about the people who "support" the Cubs because Wrigley Field is the world's biggest frat house. I have spent a good amount of time at Wrigley, and I can count on one hand the amount of intelligent baseball conversations I've had there. I'm talking people who don't know what division the Cubs play in kind of fans. there are an awful lot of them. They can have them. I suppose that makes me a bad Reds fan because I don't want money in the park at any cost, and Reds fandom has its serious flaws as well. But that's how I feel about them. And they're going to be intolerable if and when the Cubbies win the World Series.

As to the statement that Chicago is a much bigger city than Cincinnati -- that's true, but it's also a city with two baseball teams to support. I don't really see that of all things as an excuse for paltry Reds fan attendance.

camisadelgolf
07-29-2007, 07:40 PM
The Cubs are in the north side, which is the wealthier side, and therefore, they generally have more money to spend for traveling.

IslandRed
07-29-2007, 07:48 PM
This is a long standing debate. Are you a good fan if you show up no matter what or are you a good fan by withholding your support until your team is a winner?

I don't know. The Bengals are a good argument for the "withhold support" stance. A good counter-argument in favor of "show up no matter what" would be, dare I say it, the St. Louis Cardinals. Their fans show up in force and they're supportive, and it's a contributing factor in why the Cards have a high success rate in re-signing players they've obtained. Players love playing there.

I think withholding support is best reserved for protests of effort rather than competence, and used as a last resort. After all, a general policy of showing up only when the team is successful is the textbook definition of "fair-weather," and calling someone a fair-weather fan is not intended as a compliment.

WVPacman
07-30-2007, 12:16 AM
Can you, or anyone else, give evidence that the Cub fans outnumbered the Reds fans at GABP?

I was at the game Friday, and while there was alot of Cub fans, there is no way, just because they are vocal and more obnoxious, that they came even close to outnumbering Red fans.

And it's not a reflection on Red fans, as far as their loyalty and/or dedication, just because Cub fans come out for the games in Cincy. I find that rather insulting whenever anyone insinuates that.

But these rants, every time the Cubs come to GABP, are simply hilarious.




:lol:

Even the reds front office thinks so GAC

The Cubs beat the Reds in Cincinnati on Saturday, and something happened that has frustrated the Reds front office time and time again occurred: there were more Cubs fans than Reds fans in attendance.

GAC
07-30-2007, 08:46 AM
Even the reds front office thinks so GAC

The Cubs beat the Reds in Cincinnati on Saturday, and something happened that has frustrated the Reds front office time and time again occurred: there were more Cubs fans than Reds fans in attendance.

Again.... simply show us some numbers validating this, or that the FO thinks so (where did you hear/read this)? That is all I am asking.

I was at the game on Friday night and we walked around that stadium 2-3 times. No way that Cub fans outnumbered Red fans.

919191
07-30-2007, 08:56 AM
Again.... simply show us some numbers validating this, or that the FO thinks so (where did you hear/read this)? That is all I am asking.

I was at the game on Friday night and we walked around that stadium 2-3 times. No way that Cub fans outnumbered Red fans.

And you can't really tell. More blue shirts thast ed ones don't mean anything. How about all the non baseball shirts there? Not everyone goes to the game "in uniform".

Chip R
07-30-2007, 09:30 AM
And you can't really tell. More blue shirts thast ed ones don't mean anything. How about all the non baseball shirts there? Not everyone goes to the game "in uniform".


That's true. GAC's son was wearing a Cubbie blue shirt but he wasn't rooting for the Cubs.

Let's face it, the Reds didn't give their fans much to root for on Saturday and Sunday. Any wonder why it sounded like Wrigley Field out there those two days?

vaticanplum
07-30-2007, 10:06 AM
To flip the coin for a minute, there is always a pretty good number of Reds fans in attendance when they play at Wrigley. Not nearly as much as the reverse, but more than any visiting team except the Cardinals and at least equal to the Brewers. Funnily enough, it's the same distance from Cincinnati to Chicago as it is from Chicago to Cincinnati. And Chicago is a midwestern draw as far as a place for people to go to live in a bit city -- not only from Cincinnati, but from all Ohio and southern Indiana, who tend to be Reds supporters. And then you have the White Sox fans who literally go to support the opposing team at Wrigley no matter who it is.