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757690
07-28-2007, 05:43 PM
Ken Rosenthal reports on Fox Game that the Reds have acquired infielder Jorge Cantu from the Devil Rays. Said he had not heard who the Reds had given up, but it should not be much, Cantu spent a large part of the season in AAA.
He's a great power threat, but not sure where he'll play unless another move is made. EE or Conine gone soon?

Fil3232
07-28-2007, 05:48 PM
Cantu? More like Cannot. Guy has zerro On Base skills

Chi-Town Red
07-28-2007, 05:59 PM
being posted in minor league talk, and the ORG....for shackelford and medlock...wow!!!

ochoa30
07-28-2007, 05:59 PM
This is very similar to the brandon phillips pickup. He is a guy with pretty good talent who for whatever reason has soured in tampa bay. His defense isnt great but his power should definately show in the GABP. I watched him a good amount in his career year and it did not look like a fluke. We will see what we gave up but i dont mind this move if it isnt much. Plus he isnt old which is nice for a change.

ochoa30
07-28-2007, 06:04 PM
being posted in minor league talk, and the ORG....for shackelford and medlock...wow!!!

If this is true then i am ok with it. Shackleford was a waste of roster space in aaa and medlock has limited potential. He may be a decent middle reliever at some point but no more.

Chi-Town Red
07-28-2007, 06:04 PM
ANOTHER TIDBIT ON HIM........ Devil Rays infielder Jorge Cantu was optioned to Triple-A Durham on Thursday, but was uncertain if he would report to the International League club. "It's something I think to talk about with me, my agent and the general manager," Cantu said. Cantu has appeared in 25 games for Tampa Bay this season, hitting .207 with no homers and four RBI. He had a .286 average with 28 homers and 117 RBI in 2005, but has struggled since breaking his foot in April 2006. "Jorge is not happy. That's something that's very understandable," Tampa Bay manager Joe Maddon said. When asked if Cantu would report to the minors, Maddon said he had "no idea."
(Updated 07/19/2007).

Chi-Town Red
07-28-2007, 06:07 PM
hes 1 for 14 since June 20...hasn't played since July 14

texasdave
07-28-2007, 06:15 PM
I guess it's Castro to the DL and Cantu donning a Reds' uniform.

Chi-Town Red
07-28-2007, 06:18 PM
what is his reg position..he was DH this year....can he play all the IF positions?

Orenda
07-28-2007, 06:21 PM
Interesting start to the trade season, young cheap with high reward potential, Medlock is an ouch, but if the reds had an average bullpen then this is a type of move I would like.

ochoa30
07-28-2007, 06:21 PM
what is his reg position..he was DH this year....can he play all the IF positions?

Ive seen him everywhere but shortstop but he isnt very good at 3rd or 2nd. Not sure about first. He isn't known for D which is why he must hit.

captainmorgan07
07-28-2007, 06:22 PM
per a poster on c trents blog the players we sent there way are calvin medlock and brian shackleford. Shackleford is no great loss but i dunno about giving up medlock.

Degenerate39
07-28-2007, 06:27 PM
Not Medlock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Orenda
07-28-2007, 06:28 PM
Seems like a trade to be followed by a trade. Will Hatteberg be able to net a Medlock type return?

texasdave
07-28-2007, 06:29 PM
If Cantu comes anywhere close to repeating his 2005 season, then picking him up for Shackelford and Medlock is a steal.

Jerry Narron
07-28-2007, 06:29 PM
It's moves like this that cost me my job.

BearcatShane
07-28-2007, 06:30 PM
I see Conine and Hatteberg being traded next and Cantu and Votto will platoon next year.

texasdave
07-28-2007, 06:31 PM
It's moves like this that cost me my job.

Lighten up, Jerry, you're still getting paid. Enjoy life; go fishing. :)

Chi-Town Red
07-28-2007, 06:33 PM
I see Conine and Hatteberg being traded next and Cantu and Votto will platoon next year.
i guess he can only play first?....well if he can rake it will be huge plus at GABP

hebroncougar
07-28-2007, 06:47 PM
I see Conine and Hatteberg being traded next and Cantu and Votto will platoon next year.

I was about to post the same thing. Cantu also played 2b and some 3b in Tampa.

LvJ
07-28-2007, 06:48 PM
If Cantu comes anywhere close to repeating his 2005 season, then picking him up for Shackelford and Medlock is a steal. Word. This is a good move for the Reds. Someone else in this thread said it already; it could end up being a Brandon Phillips type steal.

LvJ
07-28-2007, 06:49 PM
i guess he can only play first?.... He can play all over the diamond.

HokieRed
07-28-2007, 07:09 PM
When Gonzo comes back, is this another guy to take time away from EE? Where is the playing time for EE, Keppinger, and Cantu (not to mention Freel once Hamilton returns?) Unless this deal is leading to something else, it looks to me like Wayne's been wasting his time.

captainmorgan07
07-28-2007, 07:13 PM
cantu is starting at DH tonite for the bats as durham was conviently playing in louisville tonite so all he had to do was walk across the field.

HokieRed
07-28-2007, 07:15 PM
If we have started acquiring players because we think they'll be good at GABP, we're making a huge mistake. Doing this prevents true evaluation of players. Been the Cubs' mistake for years.

markymark69
07-28-2007, 07:24 PM
Word. This is a good move for the Reds. Someone else in this thread said it already; it could end up being a Brandon Phillips type steal.

I agree. Phillips wasn't exactly lighting it up when we traded for him and that has turned out well. Perhaps giving Medlock in the deal was a high price to pay, but I believe Cantu is much like Phillips, in bad need of a change of scenery.

Hopefully he puts up similar numbers.

Muggerd
07-28-2007, 07:31 PM
I like the move if some other players move as well. Id imagine this means conine and hatte are both gone. :dunno: hopefully it works out for us.

Muggerd
07-28-2007, 07:32 PM
If we have started acquiring players because we think they'll be good at GABP, we're making a huge mistake. Doing this prevents true evaluation of players. Been the Cubs' mistake for years.

yep pretty much why we suck every time we go to the west coast where its harder to hit home runs.

jfar23
07-28-2007, 07:32 PM
I like the deal as long as he is used correctly and doesn't take away any ABs from EE or Votto. Which means he is pop off the bench and maybe a 1B platoon.

Trading Medlock for a piece you don't really need doesn't make a lot of sense though, I'll admit. Then again this might just be the first move of many.

Muggerd
07-28-2007, 07:35 PM
I pretty much trust everything wayne has done with forgotten players. Its when he makes moves for old guys i get scared.

dsmith421
07-28-2007, 10:43 PM
Word. This is a good move for the Reds. Someone else in this thread said it already; it could end up being a Brandon Phillips type steal.

It's fine as a low-risk, low-expectations move.

But Reds fans should be aware of two things: (1) Cantu is an absolute butcher in the field, and (2) Cantu has never come close to his performance in late 2004 and 2005 before or since.

The amazing thing is that Cantu's 28-HR, 117-RBI season featured an OPS of only 809. His pathetic on-base percentage will always prevent him from being a truly effective hitter.

I view him as a bench bat next year.

Redsnake
07-28-2007, 11:04 PM
I like the move. A 25 year player that put up great numbers at the age of 23 and hasn't been healthy since even. Let him get healthy and see what he can do.
Shackford had many chances to do well up here and hasn't produced and Medlock is still an unknown. The Reds gave up replaceable parts for a guy that put up All-Star numbers in the big leagues and is still young.

boognish
07-28-2007, 11:38 PM
It's fine as a low-risk, low-expectations move.

But Reds fans should be aware of two things: (1) Cantu is an absolute butcher in the field, and (2) Cantu has never come close to his performance in late 2004 and 2005 before or since.

The amazing thing is that Cantu's 28-HR, 117-RBI season featured an OPS of only 809. His pathetic on-base percentage will always prevent him from being a truly effective hitter.

I view him as a bench bat next year.

I 100% agree with your take. If Cantu can be a 4 corners guy off the bench and sometime 2B (hopefully seldom due to his atrocious glovework), he provides a nice power option off the bench, and precludes the Reds from embarrassing me by pinch-hitting with Chad Moeller.

Of course, the Cantu acquisition is only effective if the field manager is not enamored with the great RBI total of 2005 and refrains from considering him a starter. There are already too many bench players on the roster whose value torpedoes when placed in an everyday role rather than playing to their strengths: Freel, Hopper, Conine and Keppinger.

A problem is that with so many OBP-challenged guys on the team already, there is an even more glaring need for a high-OBP CF to hit at the top of the lineup. Otherwise, we will see the likes of Hopper, Gonzo, and Cantu hitting in the 2 hole next season, and the board may well implode. I am hoping for a Lohse for Michael Bourn deal, though I doubt the Phils would even consider it.

mroby85
07-29-2007, 12:09 AM
however, if they could get him back to his 2005 form, he won't be sitting on the bench. if he's driving in 117 runs, he's going to be in the lineup. im not saying that will happen, just saying if.

shredda2000
07-29-2007, 12:16 AM
Reds also got Shaun Cumberland...anyone know anything about him?

uoduck1017
07-29-2007, 12:37 AM
Reds also got Shaun Cumberland...anyone know anything about him?

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Shaun%20Cumberland&pos=OF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=458895

He doesn't look to be too much, but he is only 22 so hopefully he can turn it around. I definately like this trade, because Cantu should provide some pop off the bench and the relievers weren't much anyway. I would be in favor of trading Hatteberg and Conine so Votto and Cantu could platoon for the rest of the year and Joey could take over full time next year.

Jay Bruce
07-29-2007, 01:12 AM
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Shaun%20Cumberland&pos=OF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=458895

I definately like this trade, because Cantu should provide some pop off the bench and the relievers weren't much anyway. I would be in favor of trading Hatteberg and Conine so Votto and Cantu could platoon for the rest of the year and Joey could take over full time next year.


G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

vs. Left 160 363 45 95 26 2 12 51 14 63 1 0 .262 .291 .444 .735
vs. Right 324 879 97 243 53 2 32 149 45 171 1 1 .276 .315 .451 .765

These are the career splits of Jorge Cantu. As you can see, he is actually worse against lefties for his career, which does not make him a very good platoon partner for Votto, or Hatteberg for that matter. I like the fact that Cantu did not cost much to acquire, but I'm not too sure if he will be very helpful to this team in the future, either.

uoduck1017
07-29-2007, 01:14 AM
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

vs. Left 160 363 45 95 26 2 12 51 14 63 1 0 .262 .291 .444 .735
vs. Right 324 879 97 243 53 2 32 149 45 171 1 1 .276 .315 .451 .765

These are the career splits of Jorge Cantu. As you can see, he is actually worse against lefties for his career, which does not make him a very good platoon partner for Votto, or Hatteberg for that matter. I like the fact that Cantu did not cost much to acquire, but I'm not too sure if he will be very helpful to this team in the future, either.

For a full season, no, I definately wouldn't want to see him platoon with Votto. But Joey needs to get his feet wet and a platoon for the rest of the year sounds good in my opinion.

Jay Bruce
07-29-2007, 01:28 AM
For a full season, no, I definately wouldn't want to see him platoon with Votto. But Joey needs to get his feet wet and a platoon for the rest of the year sounds good in my opinion.

I would agree with that if we had a platoon partner that was superior to Votto against lefties. This year however, Votto has a .763 OPS, but with a .387 OBP against lefties. This shows that Votto might actually be better against lefties right now over Cantu. So, if the Reds were to bring up Votto this year, I hope he will be playing every day.

uoduck1017
07-29-2007, 01:40 AM
While it would be nice to give Joey the starting gig once he comes up, it seems there are too many players preventing that from happening. However, if Conine and Hatteberg are traded, it is reasonable to expect him to get a lot of ABs as a starter.

Topcat
07-29-2007, 06:30 AM
No real opinion on this its a trade with at least some hope. A blah deal but the part that has me scratching my head is how does a 25 year old player become a finished product and has absolutely no hope of improving????????? Seriously does this guy have no hope what so ever of improving at all ?

Muggerd
07-29-2007, 12:52 PM
You guys and only evaluating players on OPS you make me sick.

Jay Bruce
07-29-2007, 01:18 PM
While it would be nice to give Joey the starting gig once he comes up, it seems there are too many players preventing that from happening. However, if Conine and Hatteberg are traded, it is reasonable to expect him to get a lot of ABs as a starter.

As of right now, I would agree with this. I just said I would want Votto playing against lefthanders if his only other competition for the spot was Cantu, who doesn't hit them particularly well.

thedecline19
07-29-2007, 03:05 PM
Trade seems to make sense to me. Hoping that Cantu can get it figured out in AAA and be an effective bat in the coming years. Agree that Votto needs to come up following a trade of Hatteberg or Conine. Would like to see Cantu stay in the minors and figure stuff out after said trade if it happens, rather than bring him up and watch him struggle with the big club.