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Matt700wlw
07-29-2007, 04:19 PM
Baseball Prospectus

The Cubs beat the Reds in Cincinnati on Saturday, and something happened that has frustrated the Reds front office time and time again occurred: there were more Cubs fans than Reds fans in attendance. The lack of support might be just enough for Bob Castellini to pull the plug on this team. We'll see if the price on Adam Dunn drops.

Falls City Beer
07-29-2007, 04:21 PM
Baseball Prospectus

The Cubs beat the Reds in Cincinnati on Saturday, and something happened that has frustrated the Reds front office time and time again occurred: there were more Cubs fans than Reds fans in attendance. The lack of support might be just enough for Bob Castellini to pull the plug on this team. We'll see if the price on Adam Dunn drops.

What the hell does "pull the plug" mean? Fire sale?

And good God, I hope Bob C. isn't forcing moves out of frustration.

Joseph
07-29-2007, 04:27 PM
The best way to 'defeat' the Cubs fans attendance issues is to buy those series out himself and give the tickets away to school kids.

He's not going to do that because its giving away 'free' money and the Reds are still a business.

I've stopped going to Reds vs Cubs games because I hate the fans, and I suspect there are more who feel the same way.

Tom Servo
07-29-2007, 04:27 PM
I say you simply refuse admittance to Cubs fans. :cool:

westofyou
07-29-2007, 04:31 PM
Incredibly poor writing IMO, that is nothing new, nor is it something that causes a team to make knee jerk moves. Let's just not write anything next time if we have nothing to say.

RBA
07-29-2007, 04:35 PM
This weekend has been a boom to Cincinnati. Cub fans bring "outside" money and spend it on Hotels, food, gifts, etc.

corkedbat
07-29-2007, 04:39 PM
Baseball Prospectus

The Cubs beat the Reds in Cincinnati on Saturday, and something happened that has frustrated the Reds front office time and time again occurred: there were more Cubs fans than Reds fans in attendance. The lack of support might be just enough for Bob Castellini to pull the plug on this team. We'll see if the price on Adam Dunn drops.

Pull the plug? That's the way to show'em! A lot easier to revert back to the SOP of the previous regimes. Get rid of Dunn, Griffey, Harang and Arroyo for minor league dreck and lower your break-even point with the lower payroll.

It's a lot easier to hide behind a mediocre GM/Manager combination ang blame the fans than actually put an entertaining, competitive product on the field. Sheesh! :angry:

They're gonna have to win at least a Wild Card and build on that for a year or two before they can ever hope to draw like the old days. Abysmal management, losing and more competition from other forms of summertime entertainment has eroded the fanbase - especially in the out-lying portions. Some still haven't forgiven the strike seasons.

This can be a profitable franchise, but it's gonna take competency and a lot of hard work. Retrenchment and blaming the fans only push success farther in the future though. In the meantime, gladly take the money from the Scrubbie Scum and shutup!

Aronchis
07-29-2007, 04:41 PM
Pull the plug? That's the way to show'em! A lot easier to revert back to the SOP of the previous regimes. Get rid of Dunn, Griffey, Harang and Arroyo for minor league dreck and lower your break-even point with the lower payroll.

It's a lot easier to hide behind a mediocre GM/Manager combination ang blame the fans than actually put an entertaining, competitive product on the field. Sheesh! :angry:

They're gonna have to win at least a Wild Card and build on that for a year or two before they can ever hope to draw like the old days. Abysmal management, losing and more competition from other forms of summertime entertainment has eroded the fanbase - especially in the out-lying portions. Some still haven't forgiven the strike seasons.

This can be a profitable franchise, but it's gonna take competency and a lot of hard work. Retrenchment and blaming the fans only push success farther in the future though. In the meantime, gladly take the money fromthe Scrubbie Scum and shutup!

That also means they will have to spend more money within. Where do you think that is going to come from?

macro
07-29-2007, 04:48 PM
there were more Cubs fans than Reds fans in attendance

Was it that obvious, or was a poll taken as people entered the turnstiles?

Caveat Emperor
07-29-2007, 04:50 PM
This weekend has been a boom to Cincinnati. Cub fans bring "outside" money and spend it on Hotels, food, gifts, etc.

Yup.

Cubs fans are like cockroaches, but if you figure there were 10-15k of them there last night and only 10% stayed the night, thats an additional 1,000 people booking hotel reservations in Cincinnati for the night.

Thats big dollars for an economy like this on a random summer night...and thats not even factoring in how many cubs t-shirts I saw out at the Cadillac Ranch last night.

Jpup
07-29-2007, 04:55 PM
I don't know, but I suspect a lot of those Cubs "fans" are actually Reds "fans" when the Cubs aren't in town.

toledodan
07-29-2007, 04:55 PM
Was it that obvious, or was a poll taken as people entered the turnstiles?


yes it was that obvious and sounded bad on the tube. it should send a message to the front office that something isn't right. the SOS every year isn't cutting it any longer. if the FO isn't commited to winning than let the fire sale begin. maybe bringing up bruce, cueto and votto will bring some intrest back into this francise. if we must lose at least lets do in with some younger talent and let them get experience up in the majors.(see the tigers in 2003):(

toledodan
07-29-2007, 04:57 PM
I don't know, but I suspect a lot of those Cubs "fans" are actually Reds "fans" when the Cubs aren't in town.



its funny you say that as i could swear i saw some reds fans clapping as the cubs were about to put the game away.:thumbdown

RedsManRick
07-29-2007, 05:01 PM
Clearly this team hasn't spent enough money on veteran players with the experience to win ballgames. We need more people who "want to win" and "know how to win." Luckily Jorge Cantu is a great start in this new direction.

toledodan
07-29-2007, 05:04 PM
Clearly this team hasn't spent enough money on veteran players with the experience to win ballgames. We need more people who "want to win" and "know how to win." Luckily Jorge Cantu is a great start in this new direction.



i like the cantu move if they can find a place for him to play everday.:thumbup:

MartyFan
07-29-2007, 05:44 PM
Why on earth would this idiot think that it would lower the asking amount for Adam Dunn? Once Tex... goes to the Braves or whoever else, Dunn's price should go up, right?

redsrule2500
07-29-2007, 07:29 PM
Who said this? Pull the plug? I don't understand.

KoryMac5
07-29-2007, 07:35 PM
It's this way for a lot of teams who are within proximity of bigger ball clubs who are having success. Baltimore played the Yankees these past couple of days and the only reason they sold out those games is because Yankee fans who normally can't get tickets, or can't afford tickets make the trek to Baltimore. Heck I am going to Pittsburgh this weekend to see the Reds because it is only 5hrs away. If Cast is frustrated pulling the plug is not the answer putting a better product on the field is. Promoting those series against the Cubs and marketing those games for Reds fans would also be a thought.

vaticanplum
07-29-2007, 07:36 PM
The best way to 'defeat' the Cubs fans attendance issues is to buy those series out himself and give the tickets away to school kids.

He's not going to do that because its giving away 'free' money and the Reds are still a business.

The Reds give away a ton of free tickets as it is. As many as they can afford, I'd say. This was a "premier" series (not sure why or even what that means apart from more expensive tickets) so it's possible that the team wanted this to be the one to bring in money from Chicago.

HumnHilghtFreel
07-29-2007, 07:48 PM
It's not even just the Cubs. I was at the Cardinals series a couple weeks ago and I felt outnumbered in the stands. I actually felt embarrassed being in the crowd as there were cheers ringing out after Cardinal runs scored.

traderumor
07-29-2007, 08:07 PM
The same thing happens in Milwaukee...newsflash, Cable TV Superstations have created teams with national followings, just put the money in the bank account and spend it to build our own team. BP is really putting out some lame-o comments here lately.

Mario-Rijo
07-29-2007, 08:48 PM
Disregard! *Edited*

Cedric
07-29-2007, 08:57 PM
I bet the front office isn't as frustrated as their fans are with the product we continue to get.

I'm at the end of my rope with this stone age franchise.

Stormy
07-29-2007, 08:59 PM
I'd rather entitle this article "Reds Front Office FrustratING"

Pretty easy solution here... Put a winning team on the field, or since that seems beyond the capability of the powers that be, at least a mildly interesting product. This team is in the midst of it's 7th consecutive losing season, and more than half of those seasons have resembled the .430ish, 20 game below .500 variety of wire-to-wire clunkers. The magic of 1999 is the only fleeting instant of significance this franchise has had since it's 1995 Playoff appearance, as it's otherwise been 10 of 12 seasons of .500 or below baseball.

The Cardinals are in relatively close geographical proximity, have a wide following through the Midwest, and have basically owned the NL Central Division this decade (in the process of making multiple World Series appearances). Meanwhile, the Cubs have a Superstation, and are that rare enigma of a terrible franchise which still boasts innumerable closet fans throughout the area. However, if the Reds were actually contending a.) no one would much care about opposing team's attendance and b.) there would be way more Reds fans in those seats, leaving far less room for bandwagon Cubbies.

I don't know if there's any merit to this pretty vacuous blurb of an article by BP, but either way the answer resides in taking care of our own business rather than in worrying about our rivals. Of course, when you're as comfortable with irrelevance and the status quo as this franchise has been, and apparently continues to be, I wouldn't plan on the much needed renovations taking place anytime soon.

letsgojunior
07-29-2007, 09:11 PM
I was at the Yankees/Orioles game on Friday, and, not suprisingly, the entire section in front of me rooted for the Yankees the entire game. Although this article seems based entirely on observation /speculation rather than actual goings-on within the Reds, IMO the attendance at the Orioles and Reds games just goes to show that if you continually put a mediocre product on the field, the home fans just aren't going to spend their hard-earned money on tickets.

KoryMac5
07-30-2007, 12:00 AM
I was at the Yankees/Orioles game on Friday, and, not suprisingly, the entire section in front of me rooted for the Yankees the entire game. Although this article seems based entirely on observation /speculation rather than actual goings-on within the Reds, IMO the attendance at the Orioles and Reds games just goes to show that if you continually put a mediocre product on the field, the home fans just aren't going to spend their hard-earned money on tickets.

This post says it all. It is really a sad state of affairs for two once proud franchises.

redsfan4445
07-30-2007, 12:16 AM
if the reds win, you wont see as many cubs fans.. last year i went to a cubs/reds game the first week of the season, it felt like Chicago!.. later in the year when the Reds were doing well and the Cubs were not.. i went to a Cubs/Reds game.. you didnt see the flux of cubs fans... SOOOOOOOO REDS start winning, MORE REDS FANS will attend.. simple as that!

SunDeck
07-30-2007, 10:12 AM
Build a contender = More Reds fans buying tickets

More Reds fans buying tickets = Fewer tickets available for Cubs fans.

Yachtzee
07-30-2007, 10:30 AM
When the Bengals were doing poorly, it always seemed like Steelers fans outnumbered Bengals fans. Now that the Bengals sell out the stadium to Bengals fans, Steelers fans don't seem to be much of a problem anymore. If the Reds were to put a consistent contender on the field, this is a non-issue.

gonelong
07-30-2007, 11:30 AM
When the Bengals were doing poorly, it always seemed like Steelers fans outnumbered Bengals fans. Now that the Bengals sell out the stadium to Bengals fans, Steelers fans don't seem to be much of a problem anymore. If the Reds were to put a consistent contender on the field, this is a non-issue.

Bingo, I was just logging on to write the same thing.

GL

Caveat Emperor
07-30-2007, 12:16 PM
This post says it all. It is really a sad state of affairs for two once proud franchises.

Thats a decade of ownership groups that were satisfied with the 19,000-21,000 fans who will show up regardless as opposed to looking at the product and asking what they needed to do to get the other 24,000 people involved.

RedsBaron
07-30-2007, 12:34 PM
The Reds are about to complete their 7th straight losing season. Through it all, the team has drawn between 1.8 and 2.2 million fans every season since 2001, despite management that either does not know how or doesn't care to put a winning team on the field.
You have to go back to 1945-55 to find a prior stretch of at least 7 straight losing seasons. In 1951, the Reds had their 7th straight losing season, going 68-86 and drawing 588,268 fans--how would you like those numbers, Bob? By 1955, the Reds completed their 11th straight losing season, going 75-79 and drawing 693,662 fans.
In the last seven seasons here are the Reds "winning" percentages: .407, .481, .426, .469, .451, .494 and .425. Maybe if the Reds put an improved team on the field, attendance would improve.

KronoRed
07-30-2007, 12:39 PM
The Reds are about to complete their 7th straight losing season. Through it all, the team has drawn between 1.8 and 2.2 million fans every season since 2001, despite management that either does not know how or doesn't care to put a winning team on the field.


That to me says it all, this team keeps drawing near the top of the NL despite being a Pirates clone for the last 7 years.

Maybe if MORE people stayed home the Reds would get the message ;)

RedlegJake
07-30-2007, 01:50 PM
This weekend has been a boom to Cincinnati. Cub fans bring "outside" money and spend it on Hotels, food, gifts, etc.

Amen. Add to that those Cubs fans are helping the Reds be more profitable. If Cincy fans don't want to show up why wouldn't you want the other team's fans to pay the way? My question is for those of you who still live in the area - are most of these Cubs fans locals (man I hope not) or do Cubbie fans really travel in droves like that?

redsfan4445
07-30-2007, 02:15 PM
Amen. Add to that those Cubs fans are helping the Reds be more profitable. If Cincy fans don't want to show up why wouldn't you want the other team's fans to pay the way? My question is for those of you who still live in the area - are most of these Cubs fans locals (man I hope not) or do Cubbie fans really travel in droves like that?

i have talked to cubs fans at the game.. they come from Chicago as its tough to get tickets to wrigley.. this is their cheaper best option...

red-in-la
07-30-2007, 02:59 PM
Yup.

Cubs fans are like cockroaches, but if you figure there were 10-15k of them there last night and only 10% stayed the night, thats an additional 1,000 people booking hotel reservations in Cincinnati for the night.

Thats big dollars for an economy like this on a random summer night...and thats not even factoring in how many cubs t-shirts I saw out at the Cadillac Ranch last night.

St. Louis has the same problem......but their fans sort of revel in it. I believe the St. Louis management thinks of the situation as good for their franchise.

And point is well made......I only dislike other teams and their fans if I cannot beat them.

Doc. Scott
07-30-2007, 04:30 PM
Incredibly poor writing IMO, that is nothing new, nor is it something that causes a team to make knee jerk moves. Let's just not write anything next time if we have nothing to say.

Typical Will Carroll hucksterism. He just can't pull himself out of his radio-hypemeister roots.

pedro
07-30-2007, 04:51 PM
The Reds are BP's whipping boys and while the Reds certainly have their issues BP has lost most of it's credibility with me. Now that they've become the cool kids in the cafeteria they're living up to expectations by being a bunch of shallow jerks with not much to say about anything but the pretty girls in the room and a bunch of poorly executed one liners about everybody else.

Yachtzee
07-30-2007, 05:24 PM
The Reds are BP's whipping boys and while the Reds certainly have their issues BP has lost most of it's credibility with me. Now that they've become the cool kids in the cafeteria they're living up to expectations by being a bunch of shallow jerks with not much to say about anything but the pretty girls in the room and a bunch of poorly executed one liners about everybody else.

Man, I hate it when sports websites think they're doing people a favor by trying to sum up a team's entire outlook in the form of a cheeky one liner. It usually ends up being something dumb like "The Reds strike out so much they generate enough wind power to light the tri-state" or "The Bengals will challenge for the division, in the Ohio State Penal League that is. heh-heh-heh." Seems hackneyed to me. It's a shame to see BP go that route.

Falls City Beer
07-30-2007, 05:51 PM
The Reds are BP's whipping boys and while the Reds certainly have their issues BP has lost most of it's credibility with me. Now that they've become the cool kids in the cafeteria they're living up to expectations by being a bunch of shallow jerks with not much to say about anything but the pretty girls in the room and a bunch of poorly executed one liners about everybody else.

Good analogy, and one that I fundamentally agree with.