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View Full Version : Who will be gone by the end of today?



redsrule2500
07-31-2007, 08:20 AM
:confused:

Edit: meant to do the 'pick more than 1' option...

redsmetz
07-31-2007, 08:33 AM
I think you can edit the poll - I guess my "others" vote was the only one that registered. I also said Conine and Dunn.

Red Leader
07-31-2007, 09:04 AM
I think Conine will for sure be moved, to the Mets.

I'm hoping Freel is traded somewhere.

flyer85
07-31-2007, 09:06 AM
There are not really signs pointing in a particular direction.

GAC
07-31-2007, 09:16 AM
No major moves/trades will be made by the Reds before midnight tonight. And it's not due to the fact that Krivsky is a stupid and inept GM either. ;)

We do have some commodities that teams are interested in. One of them just left in Lohse. But other then that (and maybe Hatteberg), whatever else we may have, teams aren't offering much, and are trying to "steal" for peanuts (like a Dunn)?

As I look around MLB, I don't think many teams are making much movement for the very same reasons. We're all out looking for the same thing, and the huge "marquee" players, those that may be available, aren't being snagged up. Maybe it's because teams are being more conservative and frugal in this current market.

Alot of teams are doing "window shopping"; but Mark Teixeira to the Braves may be the biggest one we see.

Kc61
07-31-2007, 09:17 AM
I'm guessing that the Reds have a big possible trade brewing in which they will send Dunn, EE, maybe Dumatrait and perhaps one other to. . . . guessing Minnesota.

Guessing they are trying to get back Garza from the Twins and perhaps an outfielder or reliever.

This is sheer speculation based on:

Twins dumping Castillo opens some salary room for them
Reds need to decide what to do with Dunn, probably trade
Twins need a third baseman
Reds desire for top young pitching
Guy in minor league forum says Bellhorn standing by to fill a spot with Reds.
Dumatrait removed from minor league game, yet not called up to Reds (yet).

RedLegSuperStar
07-31-2007, 09:18 AM
I think Conine and Dunn will be dealt.

Dodgers give the Reds Jonathan Meloan and Andre Ethier for Adam Dunn!

flyer85
07-31-2007, 09:19 AM
Guy in minor league forum says Bellhorn standing by to fill a spot with Reds.that is certainly exciting. :help:

BRM
07-31-2007, 09:20 AM
I think Conine is definitely gone. I would not be surprised if he's the only one dealt today.

RedLegSuperStar
07-31-2007, 09:22 AM
No major moves/trades will be made by the Reds before midnight tonight.

Deadline is 4:00 PM

dfs
07-31-2007, 09:24 AM
If Hatteberg isn't dealt, Krivsky should be prosecuted for malpractice.

I like Hatteberg. He's fun to watch hit, but Votto has nothing more to prove in AAA. Putting of starting Votto till next year will just put more pressure on the kid. Trade Hatteberg for ANYTHING and the organization is better off.

BRM
07-31-2007, 09:27 AM
I hear you dfs but don't hold your breath waiting on Hat to be traded. I think Krivsky plans on keeping him around next year.

flyer85
07-31-2007, 09:27 AM
Trade Hatteberg for ANYTHING and the organization is better off.that could be said of a number of players. My gut feeling is that those hoping for a flurry of activity are going to be disappointed at the end of the day.

redsmetz
07-31-2007, 09:29 AM
If Hatteberg isn't dealt, Krivsky should be prosecuted for malpractice.

I like Hatteberg. He's fun to watch hit, but Votto has nothing more to prove in AAA. Putting of starting Votto till next year will just put more pressure on the kid. Trade Hatteberg for ANYTHING and the organization is better off.

I understand your logic, but is it necessary to looking at 1st base as a platoon. Might it not be possible to see keeping Hatteberg for the bench and occasional fill-in for Votto? Of course, if something of value can be had for both Hatterberg and Conine, by all means, do it. But I like Hatt on our bench nonetheless.

Kc61
07-31-2007, 09:32 AM
Votto is 23. He has done well at AAA, but not dominant. Reds may just feel he isn't ready to hit consistently in the major leagues, needs work on defense, and at minimum should finish this year at AAA.

I think people on the board are rushing things with this guy. September call up (only a few weeks away) is fast enough to give him a taste of the bigs.

He'll be here soon enough.

Meantime, maybe trade offers for Hatt aren't compelling. Maybe they do want him next year, at least as a backup. I have no problem with that.

Red Leader
07-31-2007, 09:42 AM
I have no problem with keeping Hatteberg. He's a good player and works the count well. He also plays a pretty good 1B. Votto should be the player of the future, but that isn't guaranteed. If he hits well out of Spring Training, I'd go ahead and give him the starting job and put Hatteberg on the bench (I think he'd be excellent coming off the bench, FWIW). If Votto hits a bad patch along the way you can either option him back down until he turns it around, or bench him and have Hatteberg to fill in. Not a bad thing at all, IMO.

dfs
07-31-2007, 10:21 AM
I understand your logic, but is it necessary to looking at 1st base as a platoon. Might it not be possible to see keeping Hatteberg for the bench and occasional fill-in for Votto? Of course, if something of value can be had for both Hatterberg and Conine, by all means, do it. But I like Hatt on our bench nonetheless.
Couple of things....I like Hatt too. He's a FUN player to watch play. I can see why they liked him so much in Oakland and I wish just a little tiny bit of his skill would rub off on Adam Dunn and Junior.

I DO think that Votto will be platooned with a right handed bat. Frankly with Hamilton, Dunn and Junior around...it's not such a bad idea. Last year Votto was very vulnerable to lefties. I haven't seen him hit this year, but the numbers show a substantial split (180 points of ops vanish)

As much as I like his game, I don't think there is any way that Hatteberg comes back to the reds next year. His value is as a platoon 1b/DH and he'll be elsewhere. That's why you deal him now. He's not part of the future, get something back.

lollipopcurve
07-31-2007, 10:27 AM
Conine. Small potatoes.

Unless and until WK is able to shrug off the ridicule he received following last year's big trade, I don't see him doing business in the mombo mart.

RedLegSuperStar
07-31-2007, 10:28 AM
As much as I like his game, I don't think there is any way that Hatteberg comes back to the reds next year. His value is as a platoon 1b/DH and he'll be elsewhere. That's why you deal him now. He's not part of the future, get something back.

Hatteberg does have a team option for 2008

MrCinatit
07-31-2007, 10:31 AM
that could be said of a number of players. My gut feeling is that those hoping for a flurry of activity are going to be disappointed at the end of the day.

I have the same feeling.
I have a feeling that the Lohse trade is pretty much it - nothing else today.
There could very well be some moves in August, but, again, I really do not foresee anything major coming up.


I hope I am wrong.

flyer85
07-31-2007, 04:26 PM
The correct answer was "no one".


Manager Pete Mackanin talked to general manager Wayne Krivsky shortly after the non-waiver trade deadline (4 p.m.), and Mackanin said that Krivsky told him the Reds didn't make any trades. The Reds did make one move. Catcher Chad Moeller was outrighted to Triple-A, and infielder Mark Bellhorn was called up.

That wasn't even a choice. I guess it was all much ado about nothing.

BRM
07-31-2007, 04:29 PM
Standing pat. Shocking.

GAC
07-31-2007, 08:57 PM
Trade Hatteberg for ANYTHING and the organization is better off.

Look at the numbers on this guy in '07....

.310 BA .406 OB% .474 SLG% .880 OPS

I have no problem with trading him and maximizing his value if someone offers something of worth in return that improves this team. But to say trading him for ANYTHING (i.e dump him) makes us better off doesn't make one bit of sense to me. Especially by putting an unproven at 1B in Votto.

If someone doesn't offer anything of worth for Hatte, then I say hang onto him, utilize him on the bench as insurance/backup/mentor for Votto. We've got the guy under contract through '08, and are only paying him 1.5 Mil/year.

It's not like our bench couldn't use the help.

Matt700wlw
07-31-2007, 08:58 PM
Where's the "nobody" option?

;)

GAC
07-31-2007, 09:17 PM
On a further note....

I'm glad they didn't trade Dunn. And when I look at what other Reds players were being inquired about, or were popping up on the rumor mill (Dunn, Hatteberg, Weathers, Conine, Lohse, EE), I can understand why no deals, other then Lohse, were done.

Teams that were even inquiring about Dunn, and the list was short, weren't offering much seeing that he'd be an FA at season's end. Even high level pitching prospects nowadays are valuable commodities that teams don't seem to want to deal away lightly.

Conine hinted he's probably gonna retire at season's end. Ain't gonna get nothing there.

And we have no idea what deals may have been offered for guys like Weathers and/or Hatteberg; but if the deal is not there, then I don't believe in just dumping them for the sake of doing so if the return isn't going to help us.

Hatteberg is cheap. Utilize him to strengthen our bench if no deal was there.

But I am going to assume that Krivsky's main objective was acquiring pitching. Either high level prospects for the future and/or possible bullpen help. That's hard to come by in this current market.

Thank God we didn't see another "The Trade pt 2" (i.e. a risky trade). Would that have made people happy? ;)

KronoRed
07-31-2007, 10:55 PM
Keeping Hat and calling up Votto seems like a waste, both are left handed and why give the manager an easy out when Votto inevitably has some growing pains? we won't know what we have in Votto unless we actually give him some playing time, to me it would be like if the Reds had kept Joe Randa when they called EE up a few years ago.

Not to say we should dump Hat for nothing, but don't hold him thinking we can't live without him.

GAC
08-01-2007, 09:21 AM
Keeping Hat and calling up Votto seems like a waste, both are left handed

So? Sorry - I don't by into that logic that if we platoon 1B, or use Hatteberg off the bench as a backup, that it has to be a lefty/righty split. We had a 1bman play here for several years that was a lefty, named Sean Casey.


and why give the manager an easy out when Votto inevitably has some growing pains? we won't know what we have in Votto unless we actually give him some playing time

So is Votto ready or not? Do we call him up and give him the majority of the playing time or not? Or are we going to sit around and worry that he might be an easy out if he experiences growing pains? If that occurs, then who do you utilize in those situations to give the kid a break? Who then is your option at 1B? Why not an inexpensive and experienced Hatteberg off the bench?


to me it would be like if the Reds had kept Joe Randa when they called EE up a few years ago.

Wouldn't have been a bad idea. You probably wouldn't have seen Castro then at 3B. ;)


Not to say we should dump Hat for nothing, but don't hold him thinking we can't live without him.

I don't think I said that above. I was responding to another poster who basically said trade him for anything just to get him off the team. Hatte has been a producer on this team since we acquired him. And as I said above - if they can get something of worth for him (which they obviously couldn't since the deadline passed), then by all means do so. If not, he could be utilized off this bench, and at a cheap rate, which needs strengthening.

redsrule2500
08-01-2007, 09:42 AM
the Reds better pick up Hatte's option. He's worth it IMO.

Now we just need to get rid of EE + Conine, and get good pitching and maybe a catcher.

That leaves us with the All-American 90+ Game winners of:

Freel
Dunn
Griffey
Keppinger
Gonzalez
Phillips
Hatteberg
Javy

Harang
Arroyo
Livingston
EZ
NEW PITCHER

NEW BULLPEN*

*This is key.

Unassisted
08-01-2007, 10:01 AM
Maybe if we start a thread with a poll like this every day, a move will be made? :runaway:

;)

jojo
08-01-2007, 10:30 AM
So? Sorry - I don't by into that logic that if we platoon 1B, or use Hatteberg off the bench as a backup, that it has to be a lefty/righty split. We had a 1bman play here for several years that was a lefty, named Sean Casey.

The problem with platooning Hattie/Votto is that due to their splits, platooning them wouldn't be expected to give the Reds an advantage. If Hatteberg gets a significant number of at bats against lefties, you won't see him putting up his current line (.309/.404/.472).


So is Votto ready or not? Do we call him up and give him the majority of the playing time or not? Or are we going to sit around and worry that he might be an easy out if he experiences growing pains? If that occurs, then who do you utilize in those situations to give the kid a break? Who then is your option at 1B? Why not an inexpensive and experienced Hatteberg off the bench?

Votto will be 24 going into spring training. You have to think that he'll be given every opportunity to earn a significant amount of playing time next year. I like Hatteberg in the platoon role. I'm just not sure that you'd want to spell Votto by taking away at bats against righties. It doesn't make sense to spell Votto by giving Hatteberg alot of at bats against lefties.

In my mind, if Votto is the choice next year, that pretty much pushes Hatteberg out of the picture because it would basically marginalize him to a PH against righties.

KronoRed
08-01-2007, 12:09 PM
Keeping Hat as a backup only works fine in theory, but I doubt very much you'll see it come to play on the field, Votto would be the one riding the bench, so what's the point of that?

KronoRed
08-01-2007, 12:14 PM
Wouldn't have been a bad idea. You probably wouldn't have seen Castro then at 3B. ;)



Castro wasn't a Red that year, Narron used Aurilia as his 3rd base backup.

And yes Votto is ready IMO, but I don't think we need a built in plan in case he struggles, a built in plan that our manager would probably prefer because he's a "known", let him play through the struggles, this team isn't a 1st baseman away from anything of importance

If Hat could play some other spot then 1st then it might be a different story, but he's a 1st baseman only, not great bench material, even Conine can play some other spots.

GAC
08-02-2007, 09:04 AM
Castro wasn't a Red that year, Narron used Aurilia as his 3rd base backup.

I realize that. My point was that if we hadn't traded away Randa, then the following year (2006), we could have had Randa as a backup/utility to EE rather then acquiring Castro. We instead traded away Randa for two players that aren't even in the organization anymore (Justin Germano and Travis Chick).

KronoRed
08-02-2007, 12:09 PM
Would Narron have used Randa as a backup? I doubt it, same thing with keeping Hat, he won't be here as a backup

BRM
08-02-2007, 12:18 PM
Would Narron have used Randa as a backup? I doubt it, same thing with keeping Hat, he won't be here as a backup

I tend to agree with you. If Hat is here next year, it will be as the primary First Baseman.