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View Full Version : 8/1/2007 Minor League Updates (Cueto pitching in AAA)



dougdirt
08-01-2007, 06:20 PM
No games under way yet, but I wanted to be sure to give anyone who wanted to listen to the Bats game on the radio the heads up as to where to find it incase they wanted to.

Click Here to listen online (http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/multimedia/audio.jsp?sid=t416)
You have to register to listen online, but its free to register.

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 06:35 PM
For me?

Reds game on TV, sound off, Bats game on computer.

Much rather listen to Bruce, Votto, Cueto than Hopper, Ross, and Conine

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 06:45 PM
For me?

Reds game on TV, sound off, Bats game on computer.

Much rather listen to Bruce, Votto, Cueto than Hopper, Ross, and Conine

That is my plan as well. Although until Cueto was announced as the starter for the Bats my plan had been listen to the Lookouts, follow the Bats on gameday and then watch the Reds.

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 07:01 PM
GCL Reds lost 9-6 in 11 innings today.



Player AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVG
Reed CF 6 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 .310
Gualdron 2B 5 2 1 0 0 1 2 0 0 .301
Soto SS 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 .339
Scott 1B 4 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 2 .274
Mesoraco DH 5 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 .230
Brown LF 5 1 2 0 0 1 2 0 1 .242
Bastardo RF 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 .204
Mendez 3B 4 0 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 .237
Waller C 3 1 2 0 0 0 0 2 0 .143

BATTING
2B: Reed (5, Noel), Mendez (2, Huches).
HR: Gualdron (1, 5th inning off Noel, 1 on, 1 out), Brown (5, 8th inning off Burch, 1 on, 2 out).
TB: Reed 2; Gualdron 4; Soto; Mesoraco; Brown 5; Mendez 2; Waller 2.
RBI: Scott (9), Gualdron 2 (7), Brown 2 (17).

Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Otterness 3.1 6 3 2 2 3 0 5.28
Rice 3.1 1 1 0 1 3 0 2.88
Hotchkiss(BS, 1)1.0 1 2 2 3 0 0 3.00
Gonzalez, A 1.1 0 0 0 1 1 0 5.63
Beal (L, 0-1) 1.1 3 3 3 0 2 1 2.63
Nickols 0.2 1 0 0 0 0 0 3.38

WP: Noel, Burch, Rice, Hotchkiss 2.
Balk: Noel.
HBP: Soto (by Noel), Bernardo (by Hotchkiss).
Ground outs-fly outs: Noel 6-7, Burch 5-1, Huches 3-5, Otterness 2-5, Rice 4-2, Hotchkiss 2-1, Gonzalez, A 1-2, Beal 2-0, Nickols 0-2.
Batters faced: Noel 25, Burch 9, Huches 12, Otterness 19, Rice 12, Hotchkiss 8, Gonzalez, A 5, Beal 7, Nickols 3.
Inherited runners-scored: Rice 2-0, Hotchkiss 2-1, Gonzalez, A 2-0.

BearcatShane
08-01-2007, 07:02 PM
Why was Cuteo an undrafted free agent? Did no one notice him or did he just burst upon the scene?

OnBaseMachine
08-01-2007, 07:03 PM
Why was Cuteo an undrafted free agent? Did no one notice him or did he just burst upon the scene?

He was signed out of the Dominican Republic.

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 07:07 PM
Is the AAA Bats Gameday not loading for anyone else? Or is my computer just hating me?

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 07:12 PM
Its up for me. I'm hoping Maloney is starting tonight. You know Doug?

BearcatShane
08-01-2007, 07:12 PM
I'm listening to the braodcast just fine.

Degenerate39
08-01-2007, 07:13 PM
Is you know who catching Cueto today?

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 07:14 PM
Yes, he is.

M2
08-01-2007, 07:15 PM
Best of luck to Cueto, but for the record I think his callup is idiotic. He's 21, what's the rush?

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 07:16 PM
He's absolutely dominated AA, what's the point in keeping him there? He and Maloney were both supposed to pitch today, so why not see how he does in his second AAA game?

BearcatShane
08-01-2007, 07:17 PM
Is Triple A that much of an upgrade from AA?

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 07:17 PM
Best of luck to Cueto, but for the record I think his callup is idiotic. He's 21, what's the rush?

I don't think anyone knows if this is permanent or not. The Bats are short on starting pitchers with the loss of Dumatrait and Ramirez.

As for the game.... I can listen fine, but the gameday wont load.

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 07:19 PM
Gameday is up for me Doug. Weird, they just said DeWayne Wise was the first base coach. Is that something that happens a lot in the minors, an injured player being a base coach?

And a weird thing, the usually slow Gameday is actually faster than the radio for me.

Degenerate39
08-01-2007, 07:20 PM
Looks like the Triple A game is going to be head and shoulders above the Reds game

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 07:23 PM
Gameday is up for me Doug. Weird, they just said DeWayne Wise was the first base coach. Is that something that happens a lot in the minors, an injured player being a base coach?

And a weird thing, the usually slow Gameday is actually faster than the radio for me.

Players are base coaches every now and again. Its not very rare.

Whenever I have listened to the radio and the gameday, the gameday has always been faster than the radio.

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 07:23 PM
Definitely glad I'm listening to this, considering how the Reds game is going.

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 07:26 PM
I am getting really mad at the gameday. It just sits there and loads, or pretends to load forever. I have tried it 20 times now.....

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 07:28 PM
1, 2, 3 for Johnny with 1 K.

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 07:29 PM
Hey Doug, trying Gamedaying another game, then clicking on the Bats/Tide game at the top. Its worked for me before.

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 07:31 PM
Apparently 28th time is a charm. :bang:

M2
08-01-2007, 07:31 PM
He's absolutely dominated AA, what's the point in keeping him there?

He barely pitched in AA - six starts, 36.1 IP. That's even less time than Homer Bailey got there - 13 starts, 68 IP. The point is to develop these kids, refine their game at each level as they mature, not advanced them until they fail.

Cueto didn't dominate in low A. Did he get better in AA? Of course he didn't. He got hot in AA and now he's in AAA before anyone could find out what happens when he cools down and/or the league catches up to him a bit.

Hopefully it's a spot start and he gets sent back to AA, but right now it looks like a repeat of the hyper promotional plan the Reds have forever applied to their better pitching prospects, the one that keeps failing in spectacular fashion.

BearcatShane
08-01-2007, 07:32 PM
Bruce k's.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 07:32 PM
Bruce was up 3-0 but ended up striking out.

BearcatShane
08-01-2007, 07:33 PM
Cantu pops out.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 07:33 PM
The Bats aren't making Johnson work too hard.

OnBaseMachine
08-01-2007, 07:33 PM
Bruce got ahead 3-0 before going 3-2 and striking out a bad pitch down.

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 07:37 PM
He barely pitched in AA - six starts, 36.1 IP. That's even less time than Homer Bailey got there - 13 starts, 68 IP. The point is to develop these kids, refine their game at each level as they mature, not advanced them until they fail.

Cueto didn't dominate in low A. Did he get better in AA? Of course he didn't. He got hot in AA and now he's in AAA before anyone could find out what happens when he cools down and/or the league catches up to him a bit.

Hopefully it's a spot start and he gets sent back to AA, but right now it looks like a repeat of the hyper promotional plan the Reds have forever applied to their better pitching prospects, the one that keeps failing in spectacular fashion.

I have a different idea with what happened with Cueto from Sarasota to Chattanooga. He was disappointed and uninterested that he was back in Sarasota again to start the year. When he got the call to AAA at the end of May, take a note at what happened once he returned to Sarasota.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g66/dougdirt/cuetochart.gif

That does not include his last 3 starts. But really, something either really clicked or he got the urge back to be the best he can.

Aronchis
08-01-2007, 07:41 PM
I have a different idea with what happened with Cueto from Sarasota to Chattanooga. He was disappointed and uninterested that he was back in Sarasota again to start the year. When he got the call to AAA at the end of May, take a note at what happened once he returned to Sarasota.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g66/dougdirt/cuetochart.gif

That does not include his last 3 starts. But really, something either really clicked or he got the urge back to be the best he can.

So essentially you are saying Cueto is a headcase? He sure didn't build on his Augest success in high A last year to June.

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 07:41 PM
Cueto allows a double on a grounder through the SS/3B hole. Why is Joey Votto playing LF?
Gets out of the inning unharmed though.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 07:41 PM
Cueto: 2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 1 K

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 07:42 PM
So essentially you are saying Cueto is a headcase? He sure didn't build on his Augest success in high A last year to June.

I am saying that something happened that all of a sudden he began to absolutely dominate. Maybe Ted Power down in AAA pointed something out to him. Not sure, but something happened and he began to absolutely dominate.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 07:42 PM
Doug's next post will be #5555. Are you superstitious?

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 07:42 PM
Doug's next post will be #5555. Are you superstitious?

Yes, I am. But not about 5,555.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 07:42 PM
Well, you beat me to it.

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 07:43 PM
I think Rick Sweet realizes we're probably going to keep Hatte and have Cantu platoon with him and get rid of Dunn so Votto will be playing LF for us.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 07:45 PM
I think Rick Sweet realizes we're probably going to keep Hatte and have Cantu platoon with him and get rid of Dunn so Votto will be playing LF for us.

Dunn would have been traded by now if that were the case.

Aronchis
08-01-2007, 07:46 PM
Yet, must we tell again: Votto is not a good LF. He makes Adam Dunn look good.

Hatt has to be the most overvalued Reds player in quite some time.

Caveat Emperor
08-01-2007, 07:47 PM
The point is to develop these kids, refine their game at each level as they mature, not advanced them until they fail.

I think this case is glaring in its prematurity, but otherwise I think its really difficult to pin down when the time for the "next move" is for any player. Goes back to that old Potter Stewart standby: "I know it when I see it."

That being said...It really makes me wonder what the hell the pitching instructors and coaches are being paid to do on these teams, since it seems like players stagnate at levels in terms of development (they may continue to be successful, but not continue developing) and the only recourse seems to be pushing them up another level and hoping the player figures out how to refine their game themselves.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 07:48 PM
Maybe one of these days the Minor League Updates thread can be longer than the Reds game thread...

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 07:48 PM
Dunn would have been traded by now if that were the case.

I meant during the offseason. I really don't see us picking up his option.

RedsZone favorite Ryan Jorgensen walks.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 07:51 PM
I meant during the offseason. I really don't see us picking up his option.

Gotcha.

Degenerate39
08-01-2007, 07:51 PM
I meant during the offseason. I really don't see us picking up his option.

RedsZone favorite Ryan Jorgensen walks.

Dunn can't be traded during the offseason.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 07:52 PM
Votto flies out but the Bats score 2.

M2
08-01-2007, 07:56 PM
But really, something either really clicked or he got the urge back to be the best he can.

Frankly, if he lost that urge in Sarasota, which he didn't exactly light up last year, then there's doubly no way he'd be getting past AA if I had any say. What do you think is going to happen if advanced get ahold of him when he's not in the proper mood? They'll rip him to shreds. It's not just your arm and body that need to mature.

From everything I gather, his stuff is particularly filthy at the moment, so I think it's more likely something clicked (nothing new, just his stuff coming together). Good. That happens and it's nice to see that Cueto can dominate in AA when everything's going his way. There will come a time when Cueto's not red hot and it would be good for him to see how AA bats handle him when that's the case. Who knows, perhaps they'll adjust to him a bit. We won't really know if all he ever gets is six starts there.

Anyway, color me extremely skeptical that he'll be able to do anything but get his head kicked in at the major league level in 2008. So, again, what's the rush? Let him finish 2007 in AA and start there again in 2008 so he at least gets the equivalent of a full season at that level. Then don't let him get past AAA until 2009 at the earliest. Watching teams promote 21-, 22- and 23-year-olds to the majors is like watching Bullwinkle trying to pull a rabbit out of his hat. That trick never works.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 07:59 PM
End of the 3rd: Bats up 2-0.

Cueto: 3 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 1 K

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 08:04 PM
HOME RUN BRUCE!!!!

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 08:05 PM
The Boss leaves the building.

Grande Donkey
08-01-2007, 08:05 PM
wooooooooo

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 08:06 PM
Cantu doubles.

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 08:09 PM
Dunn can't be traded during the offseason.

Yes, but, correct me if I'm wrong which I very well may be, but can't we just not pick up his option. If so, which I could be even more wrong about, wouldnt we get draft pick/s out of it?

Degenerate39
08-01-2007, 08:15 PM
Yes, but, correct me if I'm wrong which I very well may be, but can't we just not pick up his option. If so, which I could be even more wrong about, wouldnt we get draft pick/s out of it?

They have to offer arb. in order to get the draft picks and he has to decline it.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 08:17 PM
End of the 4th: Bats up 4-0.

Cueto: 4 IP, 1 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 1 K

BearcatShane
08-01-2007, 08:22 PM
They have to offer arb. in order to get the draft picks and he has to decline it.



I think he'd probably decline.

Aronchis
08-01-2007, 08:24 PM
Cueto is being rushed like Homer because the Reds are desperate for pitching. Yet neither are developed as 21 year olds to succeed in the majors. Maybe as 22 year olds they get better quickly and they may well. But that doesn't excuse sloppy promotion practices.

Cueto is getting by tonight. But he is giving up quite a bit of contact.

M2
08-01-2007, 08:25 PM
Yes, but, correct me if I'm wrong which I very well may be, but can't we just not pick up his option.

They could also jam spikes in their eyes. It would be just as much fun and every bit as intelligent.


If so, which I could be even more wrong about, wouldnt we get draft pick/s out of it?

I'm not sure if the Reds could offer him arbitration after not picking up his option, which they'd need to do to get draft pick compensation for him. Of course, his option would be cheaper than his arbitration award would be (if he accepted arbitration). Assuming his $3M raise is somehow too rich for the Reds' blood (a patently silly notion given the nearly $20M that's coming off the payroll and the constantly rising league revenues), there's probably no chance in hell of the team then offering him arbitraton.

Beyond that, I'd expect that a failure to exercise a team option automatically releases a player, meaning that the team no longer has the player on its roster and making him a free agent who requires no compensation.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 08:27 PM
Votto singles, moving Dickerson to 3rd with 1 out.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 08:28 PM
Herr singles to score Dickerson, giving the Bats a 5-0 lead.

Chi-Town Red
08-01-2007, 08:28 PM
is there anyway Dunn gets an extension form the Reds?

Degenerate39
08-01-2007, 08:29 PM
I think he'd probably decline.

With the way the Reds and Reds fans have treated him I wouldn't be surprised if this happens.

BearcatShane
08-01-2007, 08:30 PM
Does anyone have a Maloney update?

BearcatShane
08-01-2007, 08:31 PM
is there anyway Dunn gets an extension form the Reds?



If Griffey is traded maybe.

Degenerate39
08-01-2007, 08:36 PM
is there anyway Dunn gets an extension form the Reds?

Sure but will he accept it? If I was him to tell you the truth I most likely wouldn't sign it.

Aronchis
08-01-2007, 08:37 PM
If Griffey is traded maybe.

I agree. Jay Bruce is coming. They are working with Hamilton. One of Dunn/Griffey gotta go.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 08:37 PM
Does anyone have a Maloney update?

There is a rain-delay.

M2
08-01-2007, 08:37 PM
Herr singles to score Dickerson, giving the Bats a 5-0 lead.

I'm hoping Dickerson gets some serious CF time with the Reds in September.

Chi-Town Red
08-01-2007, 08:39 PM
Hamilton,Bruce,Dunn...i like the sound of that outfield

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 08:40 PM
I'm hoping Dickerson gets some serious CF time with the Reds in September.

I've said he reminds me of an unpolished Curtis Granderson. If he can keep the K numbers down, I think he could be successful with the Reds.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 08:44 PM
End of the 5th: Bats up 5-0.

Cueto: 5 IP, 2 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 2 K

Degenerate39
08-01-2007, 08:49 PM
End of the 5th: Bats up 5-0.

Cueto: 5 IP, 2 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 2 K

Do you know how many pitches?

reds44
08-01-2007, 08:50 PM
I'm hoping Dickerson gets some serious CF time with the Reds in September.
Agreed. He has been playing very well since his first month, and his D is 2nd to none.

Cueto: 5 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 2 K

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 08:54 PM
Cueto starts the 6th with 73 pitches

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 08:54 PM
Do you know how many pitches?

52 of his 73 pitches are for strikes. He has 5 ground outs and 8 fly outs.

Chi-Town Red
08-01-2007, 08:58 PM
good work so far by Johnny

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 08:59 PM
End of the 6th: Bats up 5-0.

Cueto: 6 IP, 2 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 4 K

reds44
08-01-2007, 08:59 PM
Cueto: 6 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 4 K

87 pitches

RedsFanatic
08-01-2007, 08:59 PM
Nice inning for Johnny. This next inning should be his last.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 09:06 PM
Herr drives in his second run of the night to put the Bats up 6-0.

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 09:07 PM
Bruce singles, now 2-4 with a single and homer. He'll most likely get 1 more AB

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 09:07 PM
Bruce is now batting .297 in AAA.

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 09:08 PM
Back to back wild pitches scores Herr and puts Bruce at 3rd.

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 09:09 PM
Cantu homers!!!!!

reds44
08-01-2007, 09:09 PM
Cantu with a 3 run shot.

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 09:09 PM
Anyway, color me extremely skeptical that he'll be able to do anything but get his head kicked in at the major league level in 2008. So, again, what's the rush? Let him finish 2007 in AA and start there again in 2008 so he at least gets the equivalent of a full season at that level. Then don't let him get past AAA until 2009 at the earliest. Watching teams promote 21-, 22- and 23-year-olds to the majors is like watching Bullwinkle trying to pull a rabbit out of his hat. That trick never works.

Cole Hamels. Justin Verlanders. Scott Kazmir. Francisco Liriano. Jake Peavy. Matt Cain. Rich Harden. Jared Weaver. Felix Hernandez. Josh Beckett. Carlos Zambrano. Should I keep going?
It works if the guys are good enough. Its when the guys aren't good enough that it doesn't work.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 09:10 PM
Jorge CanTOO!

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 09:11 PM
The Reds and Bats are basically at opposite ends of the spectrum tonight.

CTA513
08-01-2007, 09:12 PM
Dayton is winning 4-0

Smit: 6.2 Innings, 5 Hits, 0 Runs, 1 BB, 4 K

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 09:12 PM
The Reds and Bats are basically at opposite ends of the spectrum tonight.

Thats because seriously, honestly, the Bats may have been able to beat the Reds tonight.

BearcatShane
08-01-2007, 09:14 PM
Dayton is winning 4-0

Smit: 6.2 Innings, 5 Hits, 0 Runs, 1 BB, 4 K



What a pickup that looks like it might be.

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 09:20 PM
Maloney

1 IP, 0 ER, 1 BB, 1 K

captainmorgan07
08-01-2007, 09:21 PM
nice to see cantu showing off the power when do we expect to see him in a reds uniform?

reds44
08-01-2007, 09:21 PM
Dickerson just doubled in Redszone favorite Ryan Jorgesen.

Dickerson is 1-4 with a 2B and 2 RBIs tonight.

Mario-Rijo
08-01-2007, 09:22 PM
I don't wanna make this a Dunn thread (we have plenty everywhere else) but he can indeed be dealt. Assuming we p/u the option and he and his agent waive the no trade clause. I fully believe he would be willing.

Of course they may just expand it so to speak, by giving that list of 19 teams he won't go to earlier in the process. Which if they wanna deal him would be better than nothing.

reds44
08-01-2007, 09:22 PM
nice to see cantu showing off the power when do we expect to see him in a reds uniform?
He should be in line behind about 4-5 players at this point.

Mario-Rijo
08-01-2007, 09:22 PM
nice to see cantu showing off the power when do we expect to see him in a reds uniform?

As soon as Bellhorn shows off his worth or lack thereof.

BucksandReds
08-01-2007, 09:23 PM
So is it safe to say that Bruce is capable of hitting in AAA and will never play lower than that level again in his career barring rehab work? How much are we going to have to pay Cantu in Arbitration? Is just his previous season taken into consideration or is it his career?

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 09:23 PM
Votto with his second out of the INNING, lol

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 09:24 PM
I don't think Jay Bruce is going to be playing anywhere but Louisville and Cincinnati anytime soon.

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 09:24 PM
He did fly out to the warning track in CF though.... so at least he hit the ball hard.

reds44
08-01-2007, 09:25 PM
As soon as Bellhorn shows off his worth or lack thereof.
Herr deserves a callup more then Cantu.

Cantu can't walk and he can't field.

He's probably behind Votto, Bruce, Dickerson, and Herr in position players in line for a callup.

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 09:25 PM
I really think we are seeing the same thing with Cueto and Votto. Cueto knew he should have been in AA, as did most of us. Votto knows he should be in the majors, as do we. Both numbers declined due to, I think, getting bored with lower levels. Votto's AVG is down to an even .300

reds44
08-01-2007, 09:25 PM
I wouldn't let Cueto pitch the 7th. He had 87 pitches and just sat for a long time.

indy_dave00
08-01-2007, 09:26 PM
Matt Maloney thru 2 inning 1 hit -1walk -3 k's -0 runs

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 09:28 PM
Cueto is out

indy_dave00
08-01-2007, 09:28 PM
Unlike a lot of Reds fans I don't see Chris Dickerson ever developing into a major league regular, he's already 25 and has a slider speed , mid 80's fastball speed bat.

Chi-Town Red
08-01-2007, 09:30 PM
where is Cantu going to play if called up?...hes not an everyday player,because of his glove and we have a great platoon guy in Freel

reds44
08-01-2007, 09:30 PM
Unlike a lot of Reds fans I don't see Chris Dickerson ever developing into a major league regular, he's already 25 and has a slider speed , mid 80's fastball speed bat.
Wait let me guess.

He strikes out too much?

Cueto is done, good move by Sweet.

6 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 4 K

Chi-Town Red
08-01-2007, 09:31 PM
great outing by Cueto!!!

AmarilloRed
08-01-2007, 09:31 PM
Good to see from Lohse's Successor. I also liked the line from Smit. Does anyone remember how we received Smit? I know it was a trade with Minnesota, but I don't remember the player we gave up.

I did see we claimed him off waivers. That is better than a trade. I am not sure how I got the idea we traded for him.

reds44
08-01-2007, 09:32 PM
Good to see from Lohse's Successor. I also liked the line from Smit. Does anyone remember how we received Smit? I know it was a trade with Minnesota, but I don't remember the player we gave up.
We claimed him off waivers.

Chi-Town Red
08-01-2007, 09:32 PM
do we really have a couple of good young arms in the system??
very encouraging!

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 09:32 PM
Wow. Matt Maloney is 4-19 this year with 3 doubles and a HR

reds44
08-01-2007, 09:33 PM
where is Cantu going to play if called up?...hes not an everyday player,because of his glove and we have a great platoon guy in Freel
One homer and he is getting called up?

:dunno:

jmac
08-01-2007, 09:33 PM
This is the first time I have followed a Minor league thread so closely not even knowing about the reds game.

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 09:36 PM
One homer and he is getting called up?

:dunno:

Cantu

Bellhorn

You make the choice

indy_dave00
08-01-2007, 09:36 PM
Rocko , with the Reds struggling, quite a few listen to , or watch minor league games , dreaming of brighter days with some very impressive prospects hopefully on their way.

AmarilloRed
08-01-2007, 09:36 PM
We actually have more than a couple. None of them are in Cincinnati, however.:D

Prf15
08-01-2007, 09:39 PM
Wow this sad in a way, the minor league forum has 8 pages, Reds game has 9.

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 09:41 PM
Wow this sad in a way, the minor league forum has 8 pages, Reds game has 9.

Minor Leaguers are playing well. the Reds are playing like crap. Well actually since Arroyo left they are winning, so thats a good way to look at it, right?

indy_dave00
08-01-2007, 09:41 PM
Chattanooga announcer is raving about Matt Maloney's "wicked curve" and "nasty slider"

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 09:41 PM
Dang, my Gameday and Audio just messed up, can someone let me know how the Bruce and Cantu AB's go?

FIRELEFT
08-01-2007, 09:42 PM
Mine did too.

Prf15
08-01-2007, 09:44 PM
Bruce singles.

Prf15
08-01-2007, 09:44 PM
Bruce's average is up .307. His OPS is .981.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 09:44 PM
Maybe one of these days the Minor League Updates thread can be longer than the Reds game thread...


Wow this sad in a way, the minor league forum has 8 pages, Reds game has 9.

Ohhh, we're so close!

indy_dave00
08-01-2007, 09:46 PM
Whoever guaranteed Jay Bruce would be hitting .300 after 75 ab's at Louisville was correct , his single in 8th was on his 75th ab now hitting .307

Degenerate39
08-01-2007, 09:48 PM
Bruce's average is up .307. His OPS is .981.

Holy crap I can't wait till he's in Cincinnati. I'd like to see him as a September call up but the one which we cannot speak of said he wouldn't be with the Reds this year.

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 09:49 PM
Bruce's OPS is 20 points higher than Upton's is in AA.

Whos better ? ;)

Mario-Rijo
08-01-2007, 09:49 PM
Herr deserves a callup more then Cantu.

Cantu can't walk and he can't field.

He's probably behind Votto, Bruce, Dickerson, and Herr in position players in line for a callup.

I doubt it, I seriously doubt it. The guys you just mentioned are not likely to be a RH platoon @ 1st base. Bellhorn could be but only if he lights it up, he may but he is a butcher in the field and he isn't any better a hitter than Cantu. And what I am saying is Conine can and likely will clear waivers and be dealt.

The can't walk thing is overrated at times just look around the league (and the HOF for that matter) for plenty of guys who don't walk much. I ain't comparing Cantu but just sayin' BB's are often overrated, as there are other ways to get on base.

BearcatShane
08-01-2007, 09:50 PM
Whoever guaranteed Jay Bruce would be hitting .300 after 75 ab's at Louisville was correct , his single in 8th was on his 75th ab now hitting .307



I believe that was me (;

BearcatShane
08-01-2007, 09:51 PM
If Cantu can be decent he will get the call soon because he is a Krivsky guy.

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 09:52 PM
Maloney

4 IP, 0 ER, 2 H, 1 BB, 6 K

indy_dave00
08-01-2007, 09:52 PM
Thru 4 innings Matt Maloney 4 ip-2hits-0 runs-1 walk- 6 strikeouts

Degenerate39
08-01-2007, 09:53 PM
Maloney

4 IP, 0 ER, 2 H, 1 BB, 6 K


Thru 4 innings Matt Maloney 4 ip-2hits-0 runs-1 walk- 6 strikeouts

Seems like the Reds got the better end out of that trade

Prf15
08-01-2007, 09:55 PM
It is only one start. It was a nice start don't get me wrong but give it time before you say who won or lost. In all fairness to Lohse, if he was pitching in AA he would probably be pitching very good too.

Blue
08-01-2007, 09:56 PM
Folks, there's no need for anyone to be jealous of the immense talent of Jay Bruce.

If your middle name was F'ing, you'd hit a home run every 15 at-bats too.

AmarilloRed
08-01-2007, 09:56 PM
Unlike a lot of Reds fans I don't see Chris Dickerson ever developing into a major league regular, he's already 25 and has a slider speed , mid 80's fastball speed bat.

I don't understand this post. Chris Dickerson is only 20, and is already at AAA. He plays outstanding defense, and will need a couple of years of development; but he has the potential to be a starting outfielder if he can cut down on the strikeouts. Even if he doesn't start, he would be a better fourth outfielder than Norris Hopper.

AmarilloRed
08-01-2007, 09:58 PM
It is only one start. It was a nice start don't get me wrong but give it time before you say who won or lost. In all fairness to Lohse, if he was pitching in AA he would probably be pitching very good too.

With Lohse's consistancy problems, he would probably have already surrendered 6 earned runs in AA. It is sad to think I once proposed an extension for Lohse.

reds44
08-01-2007, 09:59 PM
I doubt it, I seriously doubt it. The guys you just mentioned are not likely to be a RH platoon @ 1st base. Bellhorn could be but only if he lights it up, he may but he is a butcher in the field and he isn't any better a hitter than Cantu. And what I am saying is Conine can and likely will clear waivers and be dealt.

The can't walk thing is overrated at times just look around the league (and the HOF for that matter) for plenty of guys who don't walk much. I ain't comparing Cantu but just sayin' BB's are often overrated, as there are other ways to get on base.
Why is it automatically assumed that Votto won't be able to hit lefties and will need a platoon partner?

Granted, his .256/.367/.360/.727 OPS vs. lefties doesn't spell great things for lefties in the majors. So yeah, I just contricted myself.

Just for fun, Herr's line vs. lefties this year is .343/.405/.576/.981 OPS vs. lefties.

Cantu's line vs. lefties this year is basically meaningless because of only 21 ABs, so his .468 OPS does not mean much. However, over his MLB career he is better vs. righties then lefties.

vs. LHP:
.262/.291/.444/.735

vs. RHP:
.276/.315/.451/.765

Nothing of his past or present says he is a lefty masher.

ochoa30
08-01-2007, 09:59 PM
Drew stubbs is 0-5 so far tonight and has really cooled off. Hopefully he will pick it up again soon.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 09:59 PM
I don't understand this post. Chris Dickerson is only 20, and is already at AAA. He plays outstanding defense, and will need a couple of years of development; but he has the potential to be a starting outfielder if he can cut down on the strikeouts. Even if he doesn't start, he would be a better fourth outfielder than Norris Hopper.

His DOB is 4/12/82.

indy_dave00
08-01-2007, 09:59 PM
Where is anyone getting the idea Chris Dickerson is 20??? He's 25- Jay Bruce is the 20 year old phenom.

Kc61
08-01-2007, 09:59 PM
I don't understand this post. Chris Dickerson is only 20, and is already at AAA. He plays outstanding defense, and will need a couple of years of development; but he has the potential to be a starting outfielder if he can cut down on the strikeouts. Even if he doesn't start, he would be a better fourth outfielder than Norris Hopper.

Dickerson is 25.

reds44
08-01-2007, 09:59 PM
I don't understand this post. Chris Dickerson is only 20, and is already at AAA. He plays outstanding defense, and will need a couple of years of development; but he has the potential to be a starting outfielder if he can cut down on the strikeouts. Even if he doesn't start, he would be a better fourth outfielder than Norris Hopper.
Dickerson is 25. That's not that old, but he's not Jay Bruce.

Chi-Town Red
08-01-2007, 10:02 PM
there is only one Jay Bruce....soon the whole world will know!

Blue
08-01-2007, 10:02 PM
Jorgensen is 3 for 4 tonight...

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 10:02 PM
RedsZone favorite Ryan Jorgensen goes 3-4 tonight. He may be fired up about something

Blue
08-01-2007, 10:03 PM
bah. I'm a Johnny-Come-Lately.

BearcatShane
08-01-2007, 10:03 PM
Well, Jay Bruce has pretty much just raked at every level he's been at. Why not see if he can rake at the ultimate level this September?

Blue
08-01-2007, 10:04 PM
RedsZone favorite Ryan Jorgensen goes 3-4 tonight. He may be fired up about something

We better be careful, they might shut the thread down.

FIRELEFT
08-01-2007, 10:05 PM
Well, Jay Bruce has pretty much just raked at every level he's been at. Why not see if he can rake at the ultimate level this September?
why not.
He is just amazing.

uoduck1017
08-01-2007, 10:06 PM
Well, Jay Bruce has pretty much just raked at every level he's been at. Why not see if he can rake at the ultimate level this September?

If I was Jay Bruce, I might start packing it in for the season just so I DON'T play for the Reds this year.

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 10:06 PM
We better be careful, they might shut the thread down.

We're talking about his baseball game, and calling him by his name with RedsZone favorite in front of it. I dont think that implies anything.

indy_dave00
08-01-2007, 10:06 PM
Selfishly I'm hoping if Jay Bruce is recalled its after Sept. 3rd , Louisville is in Indy end of Aug., 1st of September.

AmarilloRed
08-01-2007, 10:06 PM
I made a mistake. I have a printout of Dickerson that show the number 20, but that is not his age. You are correct about his DOB. I still think he can make the Reds, but he will need to cut down on the strikeouts. It is a sad commentary that we have more people interested in the minor league thread than in the Reds thread.

Degenerate39
08-01-2007, 10:07 PM
Well, Jay Bruce has pretty much just raked at every level he's been at. Why not see if he can rake at the ultimate level this September?

I think it woud be pretty cool to see them bring up Cueto, Bailey, Votto, and Bruce. It worked for Detroit when they let their young studs play instead of men who are in their 40's or near 40's.

BearcatShane
08-01-2007, 10:10 PM
Ok, whats the story on Jorgensen?

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 10:13 PM
Folks, there's no need for anyone to be jealous of the immense talent of Jay Bruce.

If your middle name was F'ing, you'd hit a home run every 15 at-bats too.

Blue, if I had any more room in my signature, I swear I would put that in there.

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 10:14 PM
Blue, if I had any more room in my signature, I swear I would put that in there.

I call dibs on it then

Prf15
08-01-2007, 10:14 PM
We better be careful, they might shut the thread down.

We can't let that happen. We got this thread going better than the MLB game thread.

Blue
08-01-2007, 10:16 PM
We're talking about his baseball game, and calling him by his name with RedsZone favorite in front of it. I dont think that implies anything.

Yes, but just like with the other thread, we're saying things that are true. You never know where to draw the line with that truth stuff.

Blue
08-01-2007, 10:17 PM
Yes! I've been quoted! I want to think all the little people, and small individuals, like Ryan Jorgensen.

Prf15
08-01-2007, 10:18 PM
haha

Degenerate39
08-01-2007, 10:19 PM
Yes! I've been quoted! I want to think all the little people, and small individuals, like Ryan Jorgensen.

You've turned into the flavor of the week. How does it feel?

Aronchis
08-01-2007, 10:19 PM
The Reds should bring up Bailey,Bruce,Votto,Cueto,Fisher,Pelland and Viola then just let them get some modest looks at major league hitters. They will struggle but succeed or fail as one;)

Blue
08-01-2007, 10:20 PM
You've turned into the flavor of the week. How does it feel?

Its similar to being a member of the Jelly-of-the-month club. Its the gift that keeps on giving.

indy_dave00
08-01-2007, 10:20 PM
One thing people will notice about Chris Dickerson is his physical remblance to his cousin NFL -HOF Eric Dickerson , he's 6'3 225 and very quick.

indy_dave00
08-01-2007, 10:27 PM
Matt Maloney thru 6 innings, 5hits , 1 run, 1 walk and 8 k's. The run was driven in by opposing pitcher Sam Narron who is a .280 hitter . Huntsville 1 Lookouts 0

indy_dave00
08-01-2007, 10:29 PM
Narron is 6'7 and from North Carolina may be related to Jerry and Johnny?

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 10:31 PM
at 8:29 PM Anonymous said...
Cueto will have a lot longer and better career than Homer Bailey will have. He's the real deal not a prentend bonus baby like Baby Homer.



A comment on John Fay's blog

...just sayin'

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 10:32 PM
at 8:29 PM Anonymous said...
Cueto will have a lot longer and better career than Homer Bailey will have. He's the real deal not a prentend bonus baby like Baby Homer.
A comment on John Fay's blog

...just sayin'
Sounds like there is a hater in the house. Cueto is the real deal. What that has to do with Homer Bailey, I have no idea.

reds44
08-01-2007, 10:33 PM
Sounds like there is a hater in the house. Cueto is the real deal. What that has to do with Homer Bailey, I have no idea.
Winner.

Why do people always have to bash one player to praise another?

Aronchis
08-01-2007, 10:39 PM
Bailey had the same rage placed against him by this time in 2005 as well. He finished with a strong Augest and worked to improve himself for the 2006 season.

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 10:43 PM
Maybe I missed some of this earlier in this long long thread, but Dayton won 8-1 tonight. Juan Francisco, Zach Cozart, Logan Parker and Justin Turner all hit HR's. Every starter had a hit but Drew Stubbs (just go ahead and bite your tongues).

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 10:43 PM
Cozart with a career night, going 3-4 with a HR, 2b, and 3 RBI

reds44
08-01-2007, 10:43 PM
Maloney:
6 IP, 5 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 BB, 8 K

Not a bad debut. He could be in AAA in the near future also.

Aronchis
08-01-2007, 10:43 PM
The Da Mastur Code

Can I publish?;)

indy_dave00
08-01-2007, 10:44 PM
Thru 7 still Huntsville 1 Chattanooga 0 -- Matt Maloney 7 innings , 6 hits , 1 run , 1 walk , 10k's . Three of the 6 hit came in the scoring 5th for Huntsville. Very impressive debut for the lefty.

Degenerate39
08-01-2007, 10:45 PM
Can I publish?;)

It might not sell as much as The Da Vinci Code but go for it

Aronchis
08-01-2007, 10:46 PM
How does he compare with Jerry Sowers?

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 10:46 PM
Billings is up 2-0 in the 7th.
Keltavious Jones is 1-3 with a double.
Kevyn Feiner is 1-2 with a solo HR.
Enerio Del Rosario has gone 6 scoreless with 3 walks and 3 hits.

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 10:48 PM
from phuturephillies.com



The problem is, at higher levels, batters are less likely to swing at breaking balls out of the zone. Most guys with fringe stuff are pinpoint control guys, like Kevin Slowey and Jeremy Sowers, and scouts even question their success at higher levels. For a guy with an 86-89 MPH fastball, even for a lefty, I think he’s going to need to really refine his control at the higher levels, or he’s going to hit a wall quickly.

Blue
08-01-2007, 10:49 PM
How does he compare with Jerry Sowers?

All I know is he is a lot bigger and his fastball is a couple mph better.

indy_dave00
08-01-2007, 10:50 PM
The Chattanooga announcer was very impressed by the fact Maloney threw so many stikes. He talked about his curve and slider a lot , fastball he never gave a gun reading on so no idea how hard he was throwing.

Aronchis
08-01-2007, 10:59 PM
Sowers's k/9 fell apart in AAA. If he can keep his k/9 above 8.00 in AAA that would be a good sign.

indy_dave00
08-01-2007, 10:59 PM
Guy Chattanooga just brought in to pitch is Dushen Ruzic - 6'8 277 from Australia. He's 25 , even bigger than Harang

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 11:02 PM
Ruzic pitched last night too for the Lookouts. He pitched pretty well in Sarasota before his promotion.

ochoa30
08-01-2007, 11:04 PM
Ruzic pitched last night too for the Lookouts. He pitched pretty well in Sarasota before his promotion.

Does anyone know what kind of stuff he has?

indy_dave00
08-01-2007, 11:14 PM
Matt Maloney suffers a 1-0 loss in debut , but was very impressive. May have got a decent prospect for Lohse.

edogg07
08-01-2007, 11:25 PM
Sam Narron is Jerry's nephew

indy_dave00
08-01-2007, 11:58 PM
oh ok thanks he was impressive shuting out chattanooga and driving in the only run of the game

camisadelgolf
08-02-2007, 12:31 AM
Herr deserves a callup more then Cantu.

Cantu can't walk and he can't field.

He's probably behind Votto, Bruce, Dickerson, and Herr in position players in line for a callup.

I would have liked it if Herr got promoted over Bellhorn.

camisadelgolf
08-02-2007, 12:33 AM
Matt Maloney thru 6 innings, 5hits , 1 run, 1 walk and 8 k's. The run was driven in by opposing pitcher Sam Narron who is a .280 hitter . Huntsville 1 Lookouts 0

On first read, I thought Maloney made one of the strangest debuts ever.

CTA513
08-02-2007, 12:46 AM
Billings won 2-0

Del Rosario: 6 Innings, 3 Hits, 0 Runs, 3 BB, 3 K
Valiquette: 3 Innings, 2 Hits, 0 Runs, 3 BB, 1 K

Feiner: 1 for 3 with a home run and 1 RBI
Frazier: 0 for 2 with 2 walks
McKennon: 1 for 4 with a double
K. Jones: 1 for 4 with a double

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=g_box&gid=2007_08_01_grfrok_bilrok_1

AmarilloRed
08-02-2007, 01:12 AM
Maybe I missed some of this earlier in this long long thread, but Dayton won 8-1 tonight. Juan Francisco, Zach Cozart, Logan Parker and Justin Turner all hit HR's. Every starter had a hit but Drew Stubbs (just go ahead and bite your tongues).

I definitely think Logan Parker is a prospect to watch. I think he should be called up to AA before too much longer.

dougdirt
08-02-2007, 01:21 AM
I definitely think Logan Parker is a prospect to watch. I think he should be called up to AA before too much longer.

He probably needs to make a stop in A+ Sarasota first....

Superdude
08-02-2007, 01:27 AM
Impressive thread guys. :clap:

AmarilloRed
08-02-2007, 01:31 AM
He probably needs to make a stop in A+ Sarasota first....

You are correct; I would like to see him promoted even if it is Sarasota.

Eric_Davis
08-02-2007, 01:47 AM
He barely pitched in AA - six starts, 36.1 IP. That's even less time than Homer Bailey got there - 13 starts, 68 IP. The point is to develop these kids, refine their game at each level as they mature, not advanced them until they fail.

Cueto didn't dominate in low A. Did he get better in AA? Of course he didn't. He got hot in AA and now he's in AAA before anyone could find out what happens when he cools down and/or the league catches up to him a bit.

Hopefully it's a spot start and he gets sent back to AA, but right now it looks like a repeat of the hyper promotional plan the Reds have forever applied to their better pitching prospects, the one that keeps failing in spectacular fashion.

It's shocking to see that. Listen to any interview by a Hall-of-Famer and they will tell you how there were always hurdles that they had to work through and overcome throughout their career, and it was always about learning how to do something that was baffling them. And these are Hall-of-Famers. How much more difficult must it be for just a guy who's an All-Star for several years, or a guy who starts every game for 10 years and makes one or two All-Star games, or a guy who starts every game for about 7 years, or a guy who starts for only 2 or 3 years or a guy who is a perennial platoon or utility guy.

Point being, is that there's never a rush to move a guy up a level as there are unending things to learn and 250 at-bats or 70 innings pitched of good results does not a promotion demand.

The physical and mental maturity is immense in itself, yet alone learning well at least 3 pitches for a pitcher.

Eric_Davis
08-02-2007, 01:50 AM
Anyone read on the Enquire or post or mlb.com for the REDS where someone said that "Cantu was a "natural" 2nd baseman"?

That's a scary thought. If that person thinks that playing 2nd base in that fashion is "natural", then I wonder what he has to see before he thinks that someone is "unnatural" at that position.

dougdirt
08-02-2007, 02:06 AM
Anyone read on the Enquire or post or mlb.com for the REDS where someone said that "Cantu was a "natural" 2nd baseman"?

That's a scary thought. If that person thinks that playing 2nd base in that fashion is "natural", then I wonder what he has to see before he thinks that someone is "unnatural" at that position.

I didn't read it, but thank God the Reds have a guy at 2nd base that Cantu surely will not be replacing.

uoduck1017
08-02-2007, 02:31 AM
On first read, I thought Maloney made one of the strangest debuts ever.

The guy was a little nervous, give him a break. :laugh:

Eric_Davis
08-02-2007, 05:02 AM
Herr deserves a callup more then Cantu.

Cantu can't walk and he can't field.

He's probably behind Votto, Bruce, Dickerson, and Herr in position players in line for a callup.

I agree. Though the REDS will be in need of a right-handed power bat on their bench next year as most of their starting power will be left-handed, I'd like Cantu to spend the rest of this year and the first half of next year working with minor league coaches on his infield defense, wherever that may be. As bad as he is at 2nd and 3rd, he must be pretty bad at 1st, too.

Topcat
08-02-2007, 06:28 AM
I don't understand this post. Chris Dickerson is only 20, and is already at AAA. He plays outstanding defense, and will need a couple of years of development; but he has the potential to be a starting outfielder if he can cut down on the strikeouts. Even if he doesn't start, he would be a better fourth outfielder than Norris Hopper.

It was obviously a math issue for you amarillo but then again you have a texas education lol . I am kidding ! He is 25 and as you can tell by my edit I had no idea.

flyer85
08-02-2007, 09:42 AM
Looks like Cueto is sailing right by Bailey on the prospect list :D

He is pretty up some impressive K/BB rates, especially for a 21 year old.

Aronchis
08-02-2007, 10:42 AM
Looks like Cueto is sailing right by Bailey on the prospect list :D

He is pretty up some impressive K/BB rates, especially for a 21 year old.

Cueto's fastball has really improved on location this year. That said, Bailey's location on his fastball is around the norm for his age and not any worse than Gallardo's or Hughes's. It is just they locate other pitches for strikes which gives them the developmental advantage.

The thing Cueto has on Bailey is his changeup has really gotten good and he locates it for strikes. His overall pure stuff isn't quite as good. While I am not calling Cueto a young Oswalt, his athletic ability and mechanics definitely give him a chance to start. Though I guess a high leveraged arm out of the pen may eventually be his calling. Tough to call on a smaller pitchers.

The thing Cueto needs to polish up is his slider. Not the most consistant pitch looking at the footage.

For the Reds luck, they need a sequel called "Bailey Strikes Back" next year:p:.

Homer Bailey
08-02-2007, 01:16 PM
I jumped on the bandwagon with the sig.... that's just too priceless