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View Full Version : my opening day lineup for 2008!



toledodan
08-03-2007, 12:37 PM
if you had it your way what would would your lineup look like opening day 2008? while it would be easy to put a-rod or someone from another team lets stick with players in our system. we all know the reds won't bring any HIGH PRICE TALENT in just HIGH PRICE PLAYERS. SEE ERIC MILTON!:D


1) HAMILTON CF
2) PHILLIPS 2B
3) VOTTO 1B
4) GRIFFEY RF
5) BRUCE LF
6) CANTU 3B
7) GONZO SS
8) ROSS C
9) HARANG P

i would almost put keppinger ar 3rd base but i have a feeling cantu here here for a reason.

KronoRed
08-03-2007, 12:40 PM
Cantu is an awful infielder, Kepp is a better bet then he but I still think it'll be EE at 3rd.

pahster
08-03-2007, 12:40 PM
No Dunn or Encarnacion? What do you see in Cantu? Because I see a guy who plays terrible defense and has a career .308 OBP in the majors to go along with a .301 minor league OBP.

KronoRed
08-03-2007, 12:42 PM
Also you have 3 lefties in a row there, that's a big NO NO ;)

Chip R
08-03-2007, 12:46 PM
Also you have 3 lefties in a row there, that's a big NO NO ;)


Anytime you have 2 CFers that's a big no-no. ;)

Stormy
08-03-2007, 01:17 PM
It is exciting to consider the potential for a vastly different looking design, and for a far younger core, to begin taking the field within the next year+. Yet another reason I was hoping to move much of the veteran trade fodder. I hoped that Wayne could acquire enough quantity/quality of solid young arms to solidify the desperately thin pitching staff enough to prevent it from undermining what could be a solid young offensive team going forward. I wish we were in the business of acquiring higher OBP youngsters on offense, and some real RHH power for balance. Dunn, Griffey, Votto, Bruce, Hamilton are just too lopsided, and redundant for comfort. This was the year to move Griffey for a couple of plus young rotation arms, since apparently the right offers weren't available for Dunn.

Hamilton - RF/CF
Phillips (preferably #5, but we need a RHH in the top 4 of the order)
Bruce - CF/RF
Dunn - LF
Encarnacion - 3B
Votto - 1B
Ross - C
Gonzo - SS

I hope that Griffey finishes 2007 strong, despite his current rut, and that we find him a new home (in return for young arms) before next season. That's a fairly exciting, though unbalanced and less than ideally designed, young lineup to consider trotting out there next year... though I hope that the next wave of Freel, Conine (gone), Hatteberg, Hopper types don't get in the way of our youth taking the field.

It gets much less exciting when you look at the holes in the rotation, and the glaring weaknesses which still exist in the bullpen.

Red Leader
08-03-2007, 01:27 PM
Sorry to be pessimistic here, but I see next year's opening day lineup to be almost what this year's lineup is:

Hatteberg, 1B
Phillips, 2B
Griffey, RF
Encarnacion, 3B
Dunn, LF
Gonzalez, SS
Hamilton, CF
Ross, C

Bruce will be in AAA to start next year. I'll almost bank on it.
Votto might make the team out of spring training, but no way will they have him start with Hatteberg on the roster. Griffey and Dunn won't be moved this offseason. Neither will Ross, or Encarnacion.

My guess is if there is any change to the above it's that Cantu is at 3B and hitting cleanup instead of Encarnacion.

KronoRed
08-03-2007, 01:30 PM
I think RL is right, we're "close" :D

Lineup I'd use

CF Hamilton
3B EE (no power this year but he did get on base at a healthy clip in May/June)
RF JR
LF Dunn
2B Phillips
1B Votto
SS Gonzo
C Ross

Let Bruce be the backup OF at all 3 spots, getting ready to be the starter when JR leaves after 08, trade Freel in the offseason.

Stormy
08-03-2007, 01:32 PM
My guess is if there is any change to the above it's that Cantu is at 3B and hitting cleanup instead of Encarnacion.

In the words of Roman Moroni, 'you fargin bastage!' ;) That's exactly the scenario I'm afraid of, compounded by a status quo in our cellar dwelling team ERA pitching staff.

BRM
08-03-2007, 01:34 PM
My guess is if there is any change to the above it's that Cantu is at 3B and hitting cleanup instead of Encarnacion.

You mean get weaker defensively and offensively at 3B all at the same time? Why not?

Red Leader
08-03-2007, 01:37 PM
In the words of Roman Moroni, 'you fargin bastage!' ;) That's exactly the scenario I'm afraid of, compounded by a status quo in our cellar dwelling team ERA pitching staff.

Tell me about it. It's the worst case scenario, but the most realistic, IMO.

And just to add, I'm not being all Debbie Downer here, that's honestly what I think will happen in '08.

dougdirt
08-03-2007, 01:50 PM
I think RL is right, we're "close" :D

Lineup I'd use

CF Hamilton
3B EE (no power this year but he did get on base at a healthy clip in May/June)
RF JR
LF Dunn
2B Phillips
1B Votto
SS Gonzo
C Ross

Let Bruce be the backup OF at all 3 spots, getting ready to be the starter when JR leaves after 08, trade Freel in the offseason.

You would have a 21 year old on the bench rather than in AAA getting at bats every day?

toledodan
08-03-2007, 02:08 PM
Anytime you have 2 CFers that's a big no-no. ;)



thats the reds new version of a shift!:D thanks for pointing that out for me.

toledodan
08-03-2007, 02:13 PM
No Dunn or Encarnacion? What do you see in Cantu? Because I see a guy who plays terrible defense and has a career .308 OBP in the majors to go along with a .301 minor league OBP.


i would hope they could somehow trade dunn.i have a feeling EE will not be here much longer as well. when i made that lineup i was looking for some change. we all need to admit the current way of doing things isn't working.
atleast with votto, bruce and cantu we have some new blood. cantu had close to 120 RBI's a couple of seasons ago. who was the last red to do that? griffey when he was in seattle?

vic715
08-03-2007, 02:56 PM
Hamilton-cf
Keppinger-3b
Griffey-rf
Phillips-2b
Dunn-lf
Votto/Cantu-1b
Gonzo -ss
Ross-c

To me its never been about the starters or the bench for that matter. If they comeback next year with the same kind of pitching then you can send an all-star team out there and still lose 90 games.Probably Dunn or EE will have to be traded to get pitching.I would keep Bruce in AAA unless he just comes out smoking next spring.

dougdirt
08-03-2007, 03:02 PM
Hamilton-cf
Keppinger-3b
Griffey-rf
Phillips-2b
Dunn-lf
Votto/Cantu-1b
Gonzo -ss
Ross-c

To me its never been about the starters or the bench for that matter. If they comeback next year with the same kind of pitching then you can send an all-star team out there and still lose 90 games.Probably Dunn or EE will have to be traded to get pitching.I would keep Bruce in AAA unless he just comes out smoking next spring.
Like he is right now?

KronoRed
08-03-2007, 03:04 PM
You would have a 21 year old on the bench rather than in AAA getting at bats every day?

Well it depends on what he does the rest of the year in AAA and in ST, around here 4th OF's get a lot of playing time, and I'd rather Bruce get a taste of the majors and be ready in 09 then the Reds have to sign an aging Reggie Sanders in 09 so Bruce has backup

Jpup
08-03-2007, 03:14 PM
Like he is right now?

like he always does.

remdog
08-03-2007, 03:41 PM
I think that a lot of what the opening lineup will be in '08 will depend upon who is the manager.

If the Reds hire a strong, experienced manager (Davey anyone?) on a 4 or 5 year contract I think that they will take a deep breath and commit to building with the kids, even if it means they aren't competitive in '08.

OTOH, if they use the manager's spot as a training ground for Rick Sweet or Ron Oester types on a 2 year contract for little money then I think it will be a very depressing year in '08. In fact, if that's the case, would worry greatly that EdE will be gone for some tired old arm and I would even worry a lot about Wayne dealing some good arms from the minor league system (maybe Bailey) so that he can make a splash with a 'name' pitcher like a Schilling or Buehrle. :thumbdown

Rem

pahster
08-03-2007, 03:42 PM
we all need to admit the current way of doing things isn't working.
atleast with votto, bruce and cantu we have some new blood. cantu had close to 120 RBI's a couple of seasons ago. who was the last red to do that? griffey when he was in seattle?

That's all well and good, except for the fact that Cantu does absolutely nothing better than does Enacarnacion. He makes outs at an ungodly rate, he plays, by all accounts, atrocious defense, and only hit for power in 2004/2005, when many suggest he may have had chemical enhancement. His career SLG in the majors is pretty decent for a 2B (though because of his lack of defensive abilities, he's miscast at that position), but in the minors it was below .400. That's awful.

As for the RBI, their team dependent and SLG driven. He had a high (almost .500) SLG that year, so that fits. I'd imagine he got an awful lot of chances that year.

His game seemingly revolves around avoiding walks at all costs. If he's slugging at a high rate and hitting .300+, it can be ignored. If not... well... there's a reason why he's in the minors and playing poorly there.