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joshnky
08-03-2007, 07:00 PM
Daniel Guerrero gets the spot start for the Bats tonight. Apparently Tom Shearn was scratched from the start but is still available to pitch. When questioned about Shearn, Rick Sweet refused to comment so I have no idea what's going on there. Anyway, Guerrero will get a taste of AAA (hopefully it won't be a sour taste) before heading back down to Dayton after the game.

dougdirt
08-03-2007, 07:21 PM
Bats go 1-2-3 in the first inning.

dougdirt
08-03-2007, 07:24 PM
Sarasota won the first game of its double headeer today 2-1.

Chris Valaika went 1-3 with a double and a run. Miguel Perez went 1-3 and Cody Strait went 2-2 with a HR. no one else had a hit.
Logan Ondrusek allowed a run in 6 innings on 7 hits and 2 walks.

tbball10
08-03-2007, 07:35 PM
mesoraco hit his first homer today!!

dougdirt
08-03-2007, 07:35 PM
Dayton is trailing 2-0.

Chi-Town Red
08-03-2007, 07:40 PM
mesoraco hit his first homer today!!

:beerme:

dougdirt
08-03-2007, 07:48 PM
Travis Webb has struck out 4 through 2 innings for Dayton, but he has allowed those 2 runs.
Keltavious Jones leading off in LF for the Bats. Drew Stubbs hitting 5th and in CF for the Dragons.

indy_dave00
08-03-2007, 07:54 PM
Daniel Guerrero thru the first three has done just fine allowing only 1 hit, 0 runs, and striking out 1 game is 0-0 thru 3.

dougdirt
08-03-2007, 07:57 PM
Dayton tied the game at 2.

Drew Stubbs hit a double. Jason Louwsma and Logan Parker both singled.

REDblooded
08-03-2007, 08:07 PM
mesoraco hit his first homer today!!


and stole a base!

Orenda
08-03-2007, 08:12 PM
Bruce wont be stopped

REDblooded
08-03-2007, 08:13 PM
not at all.....2 run blast.

How's September looking?

Screwball
08-03-2007, 08:16 PM
not at all.....2 run blast.

How's September looking?

??

Did Bruce homer again tonight?

Chi-Town Red
08-03-2007, 08:20 PM
Bruce......becoming a legend?

Orenda
08-03-2007, 08:21 PM
yes. currently hitting .310 with 7hr. I would have been happy to see Bruce playing in Cincinnati by Sept. 2008, but what can you do if he just keeps dominating the competition?

Screwball
08-03-2007, 08:22 PM
but what can you do if he just keeps dominating the competition?

Give him the Joey Votto treatment? :dunno:

REDblooded
08-03-2007, 08:24 PM
1 difference between Bruce and Votto though........................Bruce has a glove.

Aronchis
08-03-2007, 08:30 PM
Where does Bruce's power rank historically among 20 year olds in the minors. He has to up there. Though, power is usually overrated at this point and polished discipline more important, where Jay is still a bit weak.

dougdirt
08-03-2007, 08:32 PM
Where does Bruce's power rank historically among 20 year olds in the minors. He has to up there. Though, power is usually overrated at this point and polished discipline more important, where Jay is still a bit weak.

A bit.... but as a hitter, he is as polished as you can get at 20 years old.

Aronchis
08-03-2007, 08:36 PM
A bit.... but as a hitter, he is as polished as you can get at 20 years old.

or he may ever get. He may not get much better as a hitter. That is something that will determine whether Jay can be a Pujols/Vlad type of hitter or Richie Sexson.

REDblooded
08-03-2007, 08:37 PM
Bruce is averaging 1 HR/ 11 AB's right now in AAA....that's just frightening.....sorry Upton, you have SERIOUS competition for top prospect honors right now.

indy_dave00
08-03-2007, 08:39 PM
Jay Bruce singles following another Aaron Herr homer his 4th this week.

Blue
08-03-2007, 08:40 PM
not at all.....2 run blast.

How's September looking?

Stud McStudly :pimp:

indy_dave00
08-03-2007, 08:42 PM
Jorge Cantu now has a 7 game hitting streak , has had a hit in 8 of 9 games since becoming a Bat. Jay Bruce is now hitting .318 Cantu is at .323 as a Bat

indy_dave00
08-03-2007, 08:48 PM
Eddie Guardado on for the Bats in bottom of the 6th

indy_dave00
08-03-2007, 09:04 PM
Scoreless inning for Guardado allowed a hit. Now Bill Bray on in 7th.

indy_dave00
08-03-2007, 09:12 PM
Looping single vs Bray but nothing else, ends inning with a k 4-2 Bats going to 8th Bruce due up 3rd

indy_dave00
08-03-2007, 09:41 PM
Bray runs into trouble in 8th after striking out leadoff hitter of inning- Cantu commits and error- Bray walks a hitter. Salmon in a base hit and hit batter later bases loaded , run in 4-3 Bats. Tyler Pelland in one pitch dp inning over. Bats 4-3 after 8

Chi-Town Red
08-03-2007, 09:43 PM
The Reds may be having a train wreck of season, but how awesome is it to have one of the top prospects in all of baseball? pretty good feeling!

indy_dave00
08-03-2007, 09:45 PM
Jorge Cantu gets his 2nd hit tonite , now at .344 as a Bat in his 9 games with them.

indy_dave00
08-03-2007, 09:48 PM
Danny Guerrero did a good job in a spot start up from Dayton for the Bats. He worked 5 innings , 3 hits , 2 runs , 0 walks and 2 k's - allowed a 2 run homer in the 4th Danny is a lil righty who is 2-2 with a 3.92 era for Dayton, 21 years old

indy_dave00
08-03-2007, 10:06 PM
Bats win 5-3 Marcus McBeth with the save

11larkin11
08-03-2007, 10:07 PM
Shaun Cumberland is quietly off to a good start for the Lookouts, batting .400 with 3 doubles and 3 RBI in 4 games

KoryMac5
08-03-2007, 10:13 PM
Cantu was told by Krivs that he would be evaluated after a couple of weeks, he is making quite an effort thus far.

BearcatShane
08-03-2007, 10:30 PM
This is kind of out of the blue but I'm not sold on Joey Votto.

reds44
08-03-2007, 10:37 PM
Bats Won 5-3

Dickerson: 2-5, RBI
Votto: 0-4, RBI
Herr: 1-4, HR, RBI
Bruce: 2-4, HR, 2 RBI
Cantu: 2-4
Guardado: 1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 0 K
Bray: 1.1 IP, 1 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 2 K
Salmon: 0 IP, 1 H
Pelland: 0.2 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 0 K
McBeth: 1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 0 K

LoganBuck
08-03-2007, 10:44 PM
This is kind of out of the blue but I'm not sold on Joey Votto.

Blasphemy!

Just kidding, it is perfectly acceptable to not be sold on any of the kids in the minors. No matter what team, and what player. Votto has some things he needs to work on.

BearcatShane
08-03-2007, 10:45 PM
What do you guys think of Aaron Herr? Is he a major league prospect?

reds44
08-03-2007, 11:14 PM
This is kind of out of the blue but I'm not sold on Joey Votto.
It's not just you my Bearcat friend.

CTA513
08-03-2007, 11:51 PM
Michael DeJesus (Sarasota Reds) picked up his 75th walk today in 389 at bats.

dougdirt
08-04-2007, 12:04 AM
Aaron Herr is old for his level, but maybe he is one of those late bloomer types that can be a solid bench guy.

dougdirt
08-04-2007, 12:19 AM
Let me ask you guys something that don't buy into Joey Votto.....

What makes you believe he isn't that good?

Eric_Davis
08-04-2007, 02:10 AM
mesoraco hit his first homer today!!

And his first SB in the game came around to score and put them ahead in the 4th.

His homer in the 6th got them within one and shook up the pitcher who walked the next batter, then threw a wild pitch to the next batter, then gave up a single to the next batter scoring a run and getting his first blown save of the year.

AmarilloRed
08-04-2007, 02:17 AM
Aaron Herr is old for his level, but maybe he is one of those late bloomer types that can be a solid bench guy.

That's too bad. I was hoping he might give Edwin some competition. We need a viable alternative at third base. However,we might see Cantu and Keppinger as possibilities at third base. I understand a lot of people think Keppinger is a utility guy. However, hitting .324 at the major league level, even in a small sample size, is nothing to sneeze at.

Topcat
08-04-2007, 03:30 AM
That's too bad. I was hoping he might give Edwin some competition. We need a viable alternative at third base. However,we might see Cantu and Keppinger as possibilities at third base. I understand a lot of people think Keppinger is a utility guy. However, hitting .324 at the major league level, even in a small sample size, is nothing to sneeze at.


If ytou can get a good return on EE and live with Cantu and Kep then its a possibility.

NJReds
08-04-2007, 08:32 AM
It's not just you my Bearcat friend.

Truth is, nobody will know until he gets a chance. Hopefully it's sometime this summer, as Conineberg isn't going to lead us to the promised land.

mth123
08-04-2007, 08:43 AM
Let me ask you guys something that don't buy into Joey Votto.....

What makes you believe he isn't that good?

I'm probably not who this is directed at because I'm a huge Joey fan, but I'll take a shot.

My concern with Votto lies completely in his power. I think he can be a pretty decent major league hitter and I'm pretty sure he can have a good career in a Sean Casey or Scott Hatteberg kind of way. My reservations are simply that at 1B, I want more than that. I am not convinced that JV is going to be the prototypical guy who can do all those Casey and Hatte things while slugging .500+ and putting up 30 HRs. Honestly, when you look around and see guys like Pujols, Berkman, Lee, Gonzalez, DelGado, Howard, Fielder and Teixiera, a 1B like Hatte is a disadvantage versus the competition even if he is one of the better hitters on the team. Joey needs to be a lot better than that, even though if he'd put up a Hatte like season each year, he'd probably be considered a good hitter.

So, for me anyway, it isn't that I don't think Votto will be a decent major league hitter. I just am not convinced that he'll put up enough power at 1B to keep the competition from having a leg up on the Reds.

PuffyPig
08-04-2007, 09:12 AM
I'm probably not who this is directed at because I'm a huge Joey fan, but I'll take a shot.

My concern with Votto lies completely in his power. I think he can be a pretty decent major league hitter and I'm pretty sure he can have a good career in a Sean Casey or Scott Hatteberg kind of way. My reservations are simply that at 1B, I want more than that. I am not convinced that JV is going to be the prototypical guy who can do all those Casey and Hatte things while slugging .500+ and putting up 30 HRs. Honestly, when you look around and see guys like Pujols, Berkman, Lee, Gonzalez, DelGado, Howard, Fielder and Teixiera, a 1B like Hatte is a disadvantage versus the competition even if he is one of the better hitters on the team. Joey needs to be a lot better than that, even though if he'd put up a Hatte like season each year, he'd probably be considered a good hitter.

So, for me anyway, it isn't that I don't think Votto will be a decent major league hitter. I just am not convinced that he'll put up enough power at 1B to keep the competition from having a leg up on the Reds.

FYI, HAtteberg has the 9th best OPS of first baseman in the majors this year.

On your list, he is ahead of Berkman, Gonzalez, Delgado, plus ahead of Konerko,and Helton.

If Votto can walk and hit 20 HR's per season, he can post a .900 OPS. THere's currently only 7 firstbaseman in the majors at that level.

indy_dave00
08-04-2007, 11:05 AM
I think Joey Votto might be suffering post trade deadling syndrome. He had his hopes up Hatteberg would be traded and was disappointed he wasn't. Think his being switched lf for a couple game then first for a couple then left could be affecting him too.

Joey will be a hitter in the majors prob in .280-.290 range with good power to all fields , he's just struggling a little right now , he'll bounce back
.

reds44
08-04-2007, 11:18 AM
Let me ask you guys something that don't buy into Joey Votto.....

What makes you believe he isn't that good?
His swing.

TOBTTReds
08-04-2007, 11:24 AM
I like Votto's hitting a lot. I like his approach too. A solid patient hitter. He will be a lot like Dunn, but with fewer HR's. I think he is bored now, and maybe a bit deceived by the view of media and fans that he would be with the Reds by now. It is a shame he isn't here because we have two 40 year olds playing instead of him on a last place team.

acredsfan
08-04-2007, 11:31 AM
I know I would be disappointed if I were Votto. What more does he have to do? If you aren't going to play him then trade him, he needs to get some big league experience. If you aren't going to give it to him then give the kid a chance to do it elsewhere.

reds44
08-04-2007, 11:40 AM
I know I would be disappointed if I were Votto. What more does he have to do? If you aren't going to play him then trade him, he needs to get some big league experience. If you aren't going to give it to him then give the kid a chance to do it elsewhere.
He's 23. It's not like he is 26 and rotting in AAA. It's still his first year in AAA. It's not like he is destroying AAA either. His .843 OPS is good, but not something that is eye popping. Outside of his great May, his AAA campaign has been pedestrian. While I think the Reds should have traded Hatteberg because he has very little future with the club, he actually has a higher OPS (.882) then Votto does.

There's plenty more Votto can do and has to learn in AAA.

dougdirt
08-04-2007, 11:47 AM
Just a quick note. The Sarasota Reds played a double header yesterday.

Derrik Lutz picked up the save in both games. He threw 1 inning and 0.2 innings in each game. How weird is that?

dougdirt
08-04-2007, 11:50 AM
There's plenty more Votto can do and has to learn in AAA.

Votto turns 24 soon. But what is this 'plenty more' that Joey needs to learn?

reds44
08-04-2007, 11:53 AM
Votto turns 24 soon. But what is this 'plenty more' that Joey needs to learn?
How about getting his OPS higher then our current 1st baseman?

Votto's not getting a raw deal, folks.

dougdirt
08-04-2007, 12:06 PM
How about getting his OPS higher then our current 1st baseman?

Votto's not getting a raw deal, folks.

You do know that the home park Votto plays in is a park that supresses singles, doubles, triples and HR right? Likewise, Cincinnati allows HR more than any park in baseball short of Philly and allows a fair share of doubles as well.

While I don't have a problem with Hatteberg at all as a player or a person, he will not be on the Reds next time it actually matters to be a Red. Votto should be getting at bats right now to be getting ready for that time.

Here is the way I look at Votto....

He is Scott Hatteberg with a few more strikeouts and a lot more power even though he is 14 years younger.

dougdirt
08-04-2007, 12:08 PM
How about getting his OPS higher then our current 1st baseman?

Votto's not getting a raw deal, folks.

Oh and that also isn't something to work on. I think that will just simply happen once he gets to hit 250 times a year in Cincinnati.

reds44
08-04-2007, 12:11 PM
You do know that the home park Votto plays in is a park that supresses singles, doubles, triples and HR right? Likewise, Cincinnati allows HR more than any park in baseball short of Philly and allows a fair share of doubles as well.

While I don't have a problem with Hatteberg at all as a player or a person, he will not be on the Reds next time it actually matters to be a Red. Votto should be getting at bats right now to be getting ready for that time.

Here is the way I look at Votto....

He is Scott Hatteberg with a few more strikeouts and a lot more power even though he is 14 years younger.
And I don't disagree at all with that. I agree 100% with you.

However to somehow insinuate that Votto is getting a raw deal when he's not even outperforming his counterpart isn't fair.

reds44
08-04-2007, 12:13 PM
Oh and that also isn't something to work on. I think that will just simply happen once he gets to hit 250 times a year in Cincinnati.
So you think there is no difference in MLB and AAA competition?

Prf15
08-04-2007, 12:23 PM
How about getting his OPS higher then our current 1st baseman?

Votto's not getting a raw deal, folks.

Damn, I didn't know OPS is the only stat to use how good a player is....

dougdirt
08-04-2007, 12:23 PM
So you think there is no difference in MLB and AAA competition?

Not to the point where I don't think Votto can go .280/.365/.440 the Reds of the year in a Reds uniform and be ready to take it a step further in Cincinnati for 2008.

When you go from a negative hitting environment to a positive hitting environment while bringing in a very high line drive percentage I think you will be just fine.

reds44
08-04-2007, 12:35 PM
Damn, I didn't know OPS is the only stat to use how good a player is....
Would you like me to use BA and OBP? SLG?

Mario-Rijo
08-04-2007, 01:30 PM
Like reds44 intimated earlier on, it's his swing, more specifically his long swing. We have argued this point before but to no avail. Here's the quote from an analyst on the ESPN '06 futures game blog.


Joey Votto (Reds) probably put on the biggest show during BP, which is not the same as being the most impressive. Votto launched several balls into the right-field bleachers, hitting the fence at the back of the stands at least once. He does have a wide stance and a long swing, which will limit his ability to make contact going forward. At least he didn't swing and miss during BP. That's embarrassing

Question is why do you discount that information DD? Of course I am not necc. saying the author is absolutely right but it's certainly something to be cognizant of going forward. And I must admit that his results since then have leant themselves to him having a hole and since it has only been in AA and AAA he hasn't fallen completely apart.

I will just believe it or not once I have actually seen how the opposition at the next level attack him once they have had a chance to break him down. What will he do then?

His future may depend on him fixing that hole in AAA right now. Although according to a recent interview he doesn't think he has a long swing (or a slow bat, which I had not heard before prior to the interview), we shall see.

dougdirt
08-04-2007, 01:39 PM
Like reds44 intimated earlier on, it's his swing, more specifically his long swing. We have argued this point before but to no avail. Here's the quote from an analyst on the ESPN '06 futures game blog.

Question is why do you discount that information DD? Of course I am not necc. saying the author is absolutely right but it's certainly something to be cognizant of going forward. And I must admit that his results since then have leant themselves to him having a hole and since it has only been in AA and AAA he hasn't fallen completely apart.

I will just believe it or not once I have actually seen how the opposition at the next level attack him once they have had a chance to break him down. What will he do then?

His future may depend on him fixing that hole in AAA right now. Although according to a recent interview he doesn't think he has a long swing (or a slow bat, which I had not heard before prior to the interview), we shall see.

Well, first off, one scouts opinion doesn't mean so much to me. He has moved forward a level since then and has done what? Lowered his strikeout rate and improved his line drive rate.

Joey has said in an interview that in the futures games pitchers try to throw 100 and he tries to hit home runs. I don't care too much what a 'futures game' scout thinks based on the futures game last year where Joey admittedly was trying to hit a home run.

BearcatShane
08-04-2007, 01:44 PM
I certainly hope Joey is a good one but I went to about 8 Bats games this year and the ball just didn't seem liked it jumped off his bat. He did bat about .380 with a homer when I saw him play so it's not like I'm saying this when he was in a cold stretch. I'm no scout but that's what I noticed. I think he could be a Lyle Overbay type but we'll see how he does when he gets to the show.

Mario-Rijo
08-04-2007, 01:51 PM
Well, first off, one scouts opinion doesn't mean so much to me. He has moved forward a level since then and has done what? Lowered his strikeout rate and improved his line drive rate.

Joey has said in an interview that in the futures games pitchers try to throw 100 and he tries to hit home runs. I don't care too much what a 'futures game' scout thinks based on the futures game last year where Joey admittedly was trying to hit a home run.

Ok fair enough, I cannot fault you for not taking 1 scouts opinion to heart. Of course OTOH you shouldn't fault me/few of us for having reservations based on the opinion of 1 scout or something else. I have never said the scout was 100% right but you are fighting his opinion as if to say he is 100% wrong.

I am just not prepared to deal in absolutes yet until he has had sufficient AB's in the major leagues, for the opposition to have a book on him and use it. But until then I will have that opinion at the forefront of my mind when it comes to Votto.

dougdirt
08-04-2007, 02:02 PM
Ok fair enough, I cannot fault you for not taking 1 scouts opinion to heart. Of course OTOH you shouldn't fault me/few of us for having reservations based on the opinion of 1 scout or something else. I have never said the scout was 100% right but you are fighting his opinion as if to say he is 100% wrong.

I am just not prepared to deal in absolutes yet until he has had sufficient AB's in the major leagues, for the opposition to have a book on him and use it. But until then I will have that opinion at the forefront of my mind when it comes to Votto.

I don't fault you or anyone else for having any questions about it.
He said his long swing would cause his numbers to decline as he moved up and well, he moved up and that wasn't exactly the case. I am not saying he is wrong, but I don't think he is right exactly either. He suggests Votto's contact would lower as he moved forward, but he did move forward, and his contact has gone up slightly.

Orenda
08-04-2007, 02:32 PM
Mark Bellhorn, Chad Moeller, Pedro Lopez, Enrique Cruz, and Dewayne Wise have all been called up this year. I know there situations are different, but ITS TIME to give Votto some ab's in the majors. The team is 13 gb and 18 below .500. ITS TIME ITS TIME ITS TIME!

mth123
08-04-2007, 02:34 PM
FYI, HAtteberg has the 9th best OPS of first baseman in the majors this year.

On your list, he is ahead of Berkman, Gonzalez, Delgado, plus ahead of Konerko,and Helton.

If Votto can walk and hit 20 HR's per season, he can post a .900 OPS. THere's currently only 7 firstbaseman in the majors at that level.

Its a down year for Berkman and Del Gado. Gonzalez plays in a canyon and Hatte in a shoebox. Year in year out in these power nutty times, a 1B needs to be .900 OPS plus IMO. If Votto does that as you suggest and still only has 20 HRs that is fine by me. I just want .500+ slugging and at least .375 OBP to go with it out of the 1B spot. When the power wanes at 1B, teams start trying to get it from other spots like 2B and SS. When you have a Barry Larkin or Joe Morgan there you get by just fine, otherwise teams start compromising other things (namely OBP or defense where its critical) in the name of making up that power deficiency.

AmarilloRed
08-04-2007, 02:59 PM
It is obvious this has become The Great Joey Votto Debate, so I will take a stab. Votto has a .390 OBP and a .454 Slg. It is not quite what mth123 might want, but I believe he will do that next year. Let's split the difference. We have an option for Hatteberg next year; so let Hatteberg start and Votto back him up next year. He will get the experience necessary to be the full-time starter at first in 2009, and I think that will be best for the Reds

indy_dave00
08-04-2007, 03:15 PM
One thing people will notice from what both Lookout and Bats announcer claim is that when Jay Bruce hits a ball it has a certain sound you seldom hear and it jumps off his bat.Even on the radio one night ,you knew from sound the ball was gone was very odd it did have a different sound.

I watched Joey Votto , here in Indy on July 4th , what impressed me was he hit an opposite field homer in the first and it looked like he just flicked his bat the ball. Watching him in batting practice he was stroking the ball out to all fields. He has not had a big power year at Louisville but from what I saw in the game and during batting practice he should hit for decent power in the majors.

I'd say .280-.290 with 20-25 homers would be realistic by his 2nd or 3rd year.

Mario-Rijo
08-04-2007, 07:31 PM
I don't fault you or anyone else for having any questions about it.
He said his long swing would cause his numbers to decline as he moved up and well, he moved up and that wasn't exactly the case. I am not saying he is wrong, but I don't think he is right exactly either. He suggests Votto's contact would lower as he moved forward, but he did move forward, and his contact has gone up slightly.

Agreed and that's why I am not on here all the time discussing getting rid of Votto and saying he stinks and screaming it from the mountain tops. But it's more a situation where I have decided to harness my excitement for him until I see him more often.

And likewise have mentioned here so that anyone else would perhaps not have higher expectations for Joey early on. Call it pre-ventative maintenance so to speak.

It's similiar to what happened to Homer. Right now there are those who's expectations of him were unrealistic, he's still awesome and likely will be dominant at some point. But the problem there is they didn't hear ahead of time that he will still need to develop while in the majors. Now there are a few calling him a bum, and for what? Because he wasn't as advertised, which is completely the fault of the Reds F.O., who said he wouldn't be here until he was ready. He wasn't ready and now he has to take unneccessary flack.

The 1st true sign IMO that this F.O. is more about the dollar then they have stated. Just hoping that people will "get it" with Joey and give him some rope before they call him a bust as well.

camisadelgolf
08-04-2007, 08:03 PM
I think Votto will take a while to adjust to MLB pitching. He strikes me as the "vulture" type (did I just make up a useful baseball term?), who does an exceptional job of thriving on bad pitching but is many times over-matched and the more quality pitching.

ochoa30
08-04-2007, 08:27 PM
I think Votto will take a while to adjust to MLB pitching. He strikes me as the "vulture" type (did I just make up a useful baseball term?), who does an exceptional job of thriving on bad pitching but is many times over-matched and the more quality pitching.

Tell that to clay bucholtz

NJReds
08-04-2007, 08:28 PM
I think Votto will take a while to adjust to MLB pitching. He strikes me as the "vulture" type (did I just make up a useful baseball term?), who does an exceptional job of thriving on bad pitching but is many times over-matched and the more quality pitching.

If players weren't overmatched by good pitching...then it wouldn't be good pitching, would it?

Votto either needs ML at bats this year, or the Reds should trade him in the offseason while he has value. Knowing the Reds, they'll screw this up too.

camisadelgolf
08-04-2007, 09:20 PM
It might seem like what I said was redundant; obviously, the worse the pitcher, the better the hitter will hit. But I'm just trying to say that I think it's particularly the case with Votto (kind of like Adam Dunn, who seems to do his best hitting when the outcome of the game is already decided). I hope I'm wrong, though.

Eric_Davis
08-05-2007, 12:21 AM
Let me ask you guys something that don't buy into Joey Votto.....

What makes you believe he isn't that good?

I might be perceived as someone who doesn't buy into Joey Votto.

I don't believe in numbers for a reason to promote someone, not when the number is an OPS of .844 as is Votto's case this year at AAA. What is he learning? What is he getting his hits against? Is he still getting killed whenever someone throws him a certain type of pitch or two? Is he just killing fastballs and missing everything else?

I think in Votto's case is that he proved himself a while ago that he should get the chance next spring to earn the starting first base job as a RED for Opening Day 2008, and that it's his to lose.

Eric_Davis
08-05-2007, 12:31 AM
Not to the point where I don't think Votto can go .280/.365/.440 the Reds of the year in a Reds uniform and be ready to take it a step further in Cincinnati for 2008.

When you go from a negative hitting environment to a positive hitting environment while bringing in a very high line drive percentage I think you will be just fine.


The mental pressure in the Majors increases five-fold, something Votto could be working on right now while he's slumping. And if some suggest that he's slumping because he's getting a raw deal, then that's a good reason to stay in the minors because he'll have a lot more pressure than that when he gets to the bigs.

My biggest hope is that they start Votto and let him play through the slumps he's inevitably going to get when he is in his first two years in the Majors. I hope they don't treat him like a yo-yo and take him in and out of the lineup. If he's hitting .150 after 21 games, just leave him in and let him work it out.

NJReds
08-05-2007, 08:53 AM
It might seem like what I said was redundant; obviously, the worse the pitcher, the better the hitter will hit. But I'm just trying to say that I think it's particularly the case with Votto (kind of like Adam Dunn, who seems to do his best hitting when the outcome of the game is already decided). I hope I'm wrong, though.

You may be right. But the Reds need to find out, and there's no time like the present because they have no hope of making the playoffs. Let the kid play and see what you've got. Let Hatteberg work with him at 1st and in the cage.

Marge'sMullet
08-05-2007, 10:19 AM
You may be right. But the Reds need to find out, and there's no time like the present because they have no hope of making the playoffs. Let the kid play and see what you've got. Let Hatteberg work with him at 1st and in the cage.

Really good points. I'm for bring him up and letting Hatteberg work with him. I think it's the best idea I've heard on here in a long time.

Better now then in April and May of 08.

camisadelgolf
08-05-2007, 01:45 PM
I'd like to see him up, too, but I think it makes no sense with Hatteberg on the roster. While Hatteberg's up, I think you should let Votto be in a place where he can play every day. Then, unless Hatteberg can somehow fetch draft pick compensation, I'd pick up his option and trade him for whatever I could get and let Votto platoon with Jorge Cantu.