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Eric_Davis
08-05-2007, 04:53 PM
Louisville just gave up back-to-back-to-back homeruns. Saarloos the first one, then Jason Kerschner replaced him and gave up two dingers.

Saarloos line for the day.

5.1IP, 5H, 2R, 2ER, 1BB, 5K, 1HR, 2-DP's

Votto 1-3 w/ a HR.

Herr and Bruce 0-2,

Dickerson 2-3 w/ a CS.

Cantu 0-2

Chattanooga up 3-1

Adam Rosales 1-3 w/ HR and 2 runs scored
Griffin w/ a Triple
Cosme w/ a Double and an RBI and Run scored.

Justin Mallett's line, done for the day: 5IP, 3H, 1R, 0ER, 0BB, 3K

dougdirt
08-05-2007, 05:03 PM
Adam Rosales.

Eric_Davis
08-05-2007, 05:04 PM
Thanks, DougD.

Eric_Davis
08-05-2007, 05:09 PM
Majewski comes in and gets 2 outs after the 3 dingers, then Guardado comes in the next inning and gives up a run on a single-sac-single before getting the final out.

Eric_Davis
08-05-2007, 05:14 PM
Carlos Guevara was terrible. In his first inning of relief he walked 3 batters, but no one scored. In his next inning he gave up a single and homer getting 2 outs before Viola relieved him. 3-3 Chattanooga vs Jacksonville.

Chi-Town Red
08-05-2007, 05:18 PM
anyone think Guardado will be back next year ?

Eric_Davis
08-05-2007, 06:38 PM
Final Richmond 5, Louisville 1

Louisville
Player AB R H RBI BB SO AVG
Dickerson, C CF 3 0 2 0 1 0 .269
Machado LF 3 0 1 0 1 2 .216
Votto, J 1B 4 1 1 1 0 1 .294
Herr 3B 3 0 0 0 1 2 .281
Bruce RF 3 0 0 0 0 1 .312
Bannon, J RF 0 0 0 0 1 0 .249
Cantu 2B 4 0 0 0 0 1 .267
Moeller C 4 0 0 0 0 1 .239
Janish SS 4 0 1 1 0 0 .200
Saarloos P 2 0 0 0 0 2 .000
Kershner P 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
Majewski P 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
Guardado P 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
Hanigan a- PH 1 0 1 0 0 0 .235
Stone P 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000


BATTING
2B: Janish (3, Acosta).
HR: Votto, J (15, 4th inning off Hodges, 0 on, 2 out).
TB: Dickerson, C 2; Machado; Votto, J 4; Janish 2; Hanigan.
RBI: Votto, J (66).
2-out RBI: Votto, J.
Runners left in scoring position, 2 out: Votto, J 3; Janish 2.
Team LOB: 7.

BASERUNNING
CS: Machado (3, 2nd base by Hodges/Franco), Dickerson, C (5, 2nd base by Hodges/Franco).

FIELDING
DP: 3 (Saarloos-Janish-Votto, J, Herr-Cantu-Votto, J, Votto, J).

a-Singled for Guardado in the 8th.


Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Saarloos (L, 0-2) 5.1 5 2 2 1 5 1 3.60
Kershner 0.0 2 2 2 0 0 2 4.00
Majewski 0.2 0 0 0 0 0 0 3.96
Guardado 1.0 2 1 1 0 0 0 4.50
Stone 1.0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1.95


Kershner pitched to 2 batters in the 6th.
Acosta pitched to 2 batters in the 9th.

Pitches-strikes: Saarloos 71-47, Kershner 7-4, Majewski 6-4, Guardado 12-10, Stone 12-8, Hodges 74-50, Acosta 60-35, Paronto 9-5.
Ground outs-fly outs: Saarloos 8-3, Kershner 0-0, Majewski 1-1, Guardado 2-1, Stone 1-2, Hodges 5-4, Acosta 2-1, Paronto 2-1.
Batters faced: Saarloos 20, Kershner 2, Majewski 2, Guardado 5, Stone 3, Hodges 20, Acosta 12, Paronto 3.
Inherited runners-scored: Acosta 2-0, Paronto 2-0.
EjectionsLouisville Bats Jay Bruce ejected by 3B umpire Rob Healey. (7th).
Umpires: HP: Christopher Conroy. 1B: Dusty Dellinger. 2B: . 3B: Rob Healey.
Weather: 94 degrees, cloudy.
Wind: 5 mph, Varies.
T: 2:34.
Att: 4,255.

Eric_Davis
08-05-2007, 06:41 PM
Chattanooga tied 4-4 after 9 with Jacksonville. Rosales Tripled with one out in the 9th, but he was left stranded.

Catcher Craig Tatum has picked off 2 batters at 1st today. Tatum's been replaced by a double-switch in the 9th.

Josh Roenicke pitched a perfect 9th. Viola gave up a homerun in the 8th.

Eric_Davis
08-05-2007, 06:50 PM
Sean Watson with 5 shutout innings so far leading Sarasota to a 1-0 lead over Jupiter.

Watson 5IP, 3H, 0R, 4BB, 4K All 4 walks coming in the 4th and 5th innings.

RBI-single by Szymanski.

Joseph
08-05-2007, 06:54 PM
I just wanted to say thanks to you guys who contribute to these threads on a day in, day out basis. They are some of the more hope filled things on RZ these days.

REDSEER
08-05-2007, 06:55 PM
Anyone know why Jay Bruce was ejected from the game? I assume arguing with an umpire.....

BearcatShane
08-05-2007, 06:58 PM
REDSEER, on your sig, why did you decide to put that there on April 28th 2006? Did you just think of it that day or does that day mean somthing? Just curious.

Eric_Davis
08-05-2007, 07:00 PM
The GCL REDS were playing a double-header today, and the first game was supposed to start at 11:00 a.m. MILB.com doesn't have anything from the game, yet.

KittyDuran
08-05-2007, 07:10 PM
Anyone know why Jay Bruce was ejected from the game? I assume arguing with an umpire.....Yep...7th inning... here is the game log: Louisville loses 5-1 to Richmond.


Louisville Top 1st

Chris Dickerson flies out to right fielder Doug Clark.
Anderson Machado singles on a ground ball to right fielder Doug Clark.
Joey Votto strikes out swinging and Anderson Machado caught stealing 2nd, catcher Iker Franco to shortstop Brent Lillibridge.

Richmond Bottom 1st

Gregor Blanco called out on strikes.
Martin Prado called out on strikes.
Brandon Jones strikes out swinging.

Louisville Top 2nd

Aaron Herr strikes out on foul tip.
Jay Bruce flies out to center fielder Gregor Blanco.
Jorge Cantu grounds out, third baseman Brayan Pena to first baseman Barbaro Canizares.

Richmond Bottom 2nd

Brayan Pena grounds out, second baseman Jorge Cantu to first baseman Joey Votto.
Doug Clark flies out to left fielder Anderson Machado.
Brent Lillibridge bunt grounds out, pitcher Kirk Saarloos to first baseman Joey Votto.

Louisville Top 3rd

Chad Moeller strikes out swinging.
Paul Janish pops out to shortstop Brent Lillibridge.
Kirk Saarloos called out on strikes.

Richmond Bottom 3rd

Barbaro Canizares singles on a ground ball to left fielder Anderson Machado.
Iker Franco grounds into double play, pitcher Kirk Saarloos to shortstop Paul Janish to first baseman Joey Votto. Barbaro Canizares out at 2nd.
Trey Hodges called out on strikes.

Louisville Top 4th

Chris Dickerson singles on a line drive to center fielder Gregor Blanco.
Anderson Machado strikes out on foul tip and Chris Dickerson caught stealing 2nd, catcher Iker Franco to shortstop Brent Lillibridge.
Joey Votto homers (15) on a fly ball to left center field.
Aaron Herr grounds out, second baseman Martin Prado to first baseman Barbaro Canizares.

Richmond Bottom 4th

Gregor Blanco walks.
Martin Prado strikes out swinging.
Brandon Jones singles on a ground ball to right fielder Jay Bruce. Gregor Blanco to 3rd.
Brayan Pena singles on a line drive to center fielder Chris Dickerson. Gregor Blanco scores. Brandon Jones to 2nd.
Doug Clark flies out to center fielder Chris Dickerson. Brandon Jones to 3rd.
Brent Lillibridge grounds out, shortstop Paul Janish to first baseman Joey Votto.

Louisville Top 5th

Jay Bruce grounds out, second baseman Martin Prado to first baseman Barbaro Canizares.
Jorge Cantu lines out to third baseman Brayan Pena.
Chad Moeller grounds out, third baseman Brayan Pena to first baseman Barbaro Canizares.

Richmond Bottom 5th

Barbaro Canizares singles on a ground ball to shortstop Paul Janish.
Iker Franco grounds into double play, third baseman Aaron Herr to second baseman Jorge Cantu to first baseman Joey Votto. Barbaro Canizares out at 2nd.
Trey Hodges grounds out, shortstop Paul Janish to first baseman Joey Votto.

Louisville Top 6th

Paul Janish grounds out, shortstop Brent Lillibridge to first baseman Barbaro Canizares.
Kirk Saarloos strikes out swinging.
Chris Dickerson singles on a line drive to center fielder Gregor Blanco.
Anderson Machado walks. Chris Dickerson to 2nd.
Pitcher Change: Manny Acosta replaces Trey Hodges, batting 9th.
Joey Votto flies out to right fielder Doug Clark.

Richmond Bottom 6th

Gregor Blanco lines out to center fielder Chris Dickerson.
Martin Prado homers (4) on a fly ball to left center field.
Coaching visit to mound.
Pitcher Change: Jason Kershner replaces Kirk Saarloos, batting 9th.
Brandon Jones homers (2) on a fly ball to right field.
Brayan Pena homers (5) on a fly ball to right center field.
Coaching visit to mound.
Pitcher Change: Gary Majewski replaces Jason Kershner, batting 9th.
Doug Clark pops out to first baseman Joey Votto in foul territory.
Brent Lillibridge grounds out, third baseman Aaron Herr to first baseman Joey Votto.

Louisville Top 7th

Aaron Herr strikes out swinging.
Jay Bruce strikes out swinging.
Jorge Cantu strikes out swinging.

Richmond Bottom 7th

Defensive Substitution: Jeff Bannon replaces right fielder Jay Bruce, batting 5th, playing right field.
Pitcher Change: Eddie Guardado replaces Gary Majewski, batting 9th.
Louisville Bats Jay Bruce ejected by 3B umpire Rob Healey. Barbaro Canizares singles on a ground ball to center fielder Chris Dickerson.
Iker Franco flies out to center fielder Chris Dickerson.
Manny Acosta out on a sacrifice bunt, third baseman Aaron Herr to second baseman Jorge Cantu. Barbaro Canizares to 2nd.
Gregor Blanco singles on a ground ball to left fielder Anderson Machado. Barbaro Canizares scores.
Martin Prado grounds out, second baseman Jorge Cantu to first baseman Joey Votto.

Louisville Top 8th

Chad Moeller grounds out, second baseman Martin Prado to first baseman Barbaro Canizares.
Paul Janish doubles (3) on a ground ball to left fielder Brandon Jones.
Offensive Substitution: Pinch hitter Ryan Hanigan replaces Eddie Guardado.
Ryan Hanigan singles on a ground ball to left fielder Brandon Jones. Paul Janish to 3rd.
Chris Dickerson walks. Ryan Hanigan to 2nd.
Anderson Machado strikes out swinging.
Joey Votto grounds into a force out, fielded by second baseman Martin Prado. Chris Dickerson out at 2nd.

Richmond Bottom 8th

Pitcher Change: Ricky Stone replaces Eddie Guardado, batting 9th.
Brandon Jones singles on a ground ball to right fielder Jeff Bannon.
Brayan Pena lines into unassisted double play, first baseman Joey Votto. Brandon Jones doubled off 1st.
Doug Clark grounds out, first baseman Joey Votto to pitcher Ricky Stone.

Louisville Top 9th

Aaron Herr walks.
Jeff Bannon walks. Aaron Herr to 2nd.
Coaching visit to mound.
Pitcher Change: Chad Paronto replaces Manny Acosta, batting 4th.
Defensive Substitution: Wes Timmons replaces pitcher Manny Acosta, batting 9th, playing third base.
Jorge Cantu flies out to left fielder Brandon Jones in foul territory.
Chad Moeller grounds out, third baseman Wes Timmons to first baseman Barbaro Canizares. Aaron Herr to 3rd. Jeff Bannon to 2nd.
Paul Janish grounds out, second baseman Martin Prado to first baseman Barbaro Canizares.

Kc61
08-05-2007, 07:15 PM
Chattanooga tied 4-4 after 9 with Jacksonville. Rosales Tripled with one out in the 9th, but he was left stranded.

Catcher Craig Tatum has picked off 2 batters at 1st today. Tatum's been replaced by a double-switch in the 9th.

Josh Roenicke pitched a perfect 9th. Viola gave up a homerun in the 8th.

Tatum has really come on this year. Maybe . . . .

Eric_Davis
08-05-2007, 07:23 PM
Cody Strait Triples and scores his second run of the day off a single by Justin Tordi putting Sarasota up 2-0.

Tordi, with 2 promotions this year, but in a fashion that stats people would go, "what?".

Started at Billings in 70 AB's w/ .214/.295/.329 (.624 OPS)
Promoted to Dayton 67 AB's w/ .209/.254/.269 (.523 OPS)
Now up w/ Sarasota 24 AB's w/ .292/.320/.417 (.737 OPS)

Played 3 years at Univ of Miami, and has now had 13 months of Pro Ball. Played Catcher last year and 19 games at SS for Billings this year, at Dayton 13 games at SS, 5 at DH, 3 at 3B, and 2 at C, at Sarasota 6 games at 3B, 1 at 2B, and again today at 2B.

Superdude
08-05-2007, 07:29 PM
Jay Bruce can't go a game without doing something awesome.

That's a truth I've held close to my heart since day one. After an 0-3 day, you can imagine how shaken up I was, but once again, the Boss proves me wrong...


Louisville Bats Jay Bruce ejected by 3B umpire Rob Healey.

:cool:

Eric_Davis
08-05-2007, 07:30 PM
Lookouts Win in Walk-off Fashion!
Date Posted: 8/5/2007

On a hot, summer day in Chattanooga, the Lookouts and Suns battled in see-saw fashion throughout the game, but it would be an eleventh-inning, walk-off homer from Drew Anderson that would give the Lookouts a 5-4 win in Sunday afternoon action at AT&T Field.

Chattanooga got off to an early 1-0 lead on an RBI single from Daniel Dorn, who brought home Adam Rosales from second.

The Suns waited until the third to enter the scoreboard. Jimmy Rohan led-off the inning with a double and quickly advanced to third on a Joey Norrito sac bunt. James Tomlin would follow with a groundball to shortstop Caonabo Cosme, who made an errant throw to first. On the play, Rohan scored and knotted-up the score, 1-1.

The Lookouts would re-claim the lead in the fourth by plating another run. Caonabo Cosme began the inning with a double and would find his way home on a Shaun Cumberland single.

The Lookouts' offense kept rolling in the fifth, as Adam Rosales blasted a solo shot to right to give the Lookouts a 3-1 lead.

The see-saw pace continued in the seventh with the Suns scoring two more runs and tying the game on a Thomas Giles two-run homer.

Jacksonville would take the momentary lead in the top of the eighth on an Anthony Raglani solo homer, but the Lookouts, once again, tied the score in the bottom portion of the eighth. After a Daniel Dorn walk and Craig Tatum single, pinch hitter Luis Bolivar came through with a clutch, RBI single.

The Lookouts could not capitalize on a one-out Adam Rosales triple in the bottom of the ninth, and the game went into extra-innings.

After a scoreless tenth, the Lookouts shutout the Suns in the top portion of the eleventh. All possible drama came to a halt in the Lookouts' portion of the eleventh, as Drew Anderson led off the inning with a walk-off homer, giving the Lookouts a 5-4 win.

Eric_Davis
08-05-2007, 07:53 PM
Ramon Ramirez pitched 2 innings and got the win for Chattanooga. He didn't allow a run, the first time since June he came out of a game without allowing a run at home, 7 appearances ago, usually pitching 2 innings per appearance. He hasn't given up a run on the road yet as a Chattanooga reliever, but that's only 3 appearances. He started 12 of 14 appearances at Sarasota before being called up 5-6 weeks ago, where he's been exclusively a middle-inning guy, posting an ERA of 5.50 his last 10 games going into today, but with a K/inning and after today still has a 3-1 K/BB ratio.

Blue
08-05-2007, 07:59 PM
Bruce must have tried to show the 3B umpire Who's the Boss after being called out on a check swing appeal? And did it really happen when his team went out to play defense?

ochoa30
08-05-2007, 08:11 PM
Bruce must have tried to show the 3B umpire Who's the Boss after being called out on a check swing appeal? And did it really happen when his team went out to play defense?

No, i was listening and he was ejected after he went back into the dugout. He originally threw his arms up in disbelief and then probably kept yapping. If the boss says he didnt swing then he didnt swing. I guess the ump just didnt get the memo.

REDSEER
08-05-2007, 08:22 PM
Bearcat Shane, the date in my sig was the date I put it on there....it was probably just the day I decided my sig needed changed, something (somewhat) permanent...just hopefully not too permanent..........

REDSEER
08-05-2007, 08:47 PM
Billings leads 2-0 in the 6th......

Frazier 2-3 2B, HR...now hitting .293
Waring 0-2....in a bit of a slump, now hitting .299
Honeycutt 4 IP 2H 4K 2BB 0R

reds44
08-05-2007, 09:12 PM
Please call up Dickerson.

corkedbat
08-05-2007, 09:36 PM
Jay Bruce can't go a game without doing something awesome.

That's a truth I've held close to my heart since day one. After an 0-3 day, you can imagine how shaken up I was, but once again, the Boss proves me wrong...



:cool:

Obviously, Mr. Girly-man Umpire was jealous of his talent and intimidated by his prowess.
:D

Eric_Davis
08-05-2007, 09:44 PM
Jay Bruce,

Bruce Springsteen

Bruce Wayne

The Boss

Batman

Drew Stubbs can be Boy Wonder. Laugh Icon goes here.

indy_dave00
08-05-2007, 10:31 PM
Please don't call up Dickerson . Stiking out average of .343 (137 stikeouts in 400 ab's )with only 9 homers doesn't impress me. Even Adam Dunn doesn't stike out at that percentage and he has 30 homers.

Chi-Town Red
08-05-2007, 10:33 PM
Jay Bruce,

Bruce Springsteen

Bruce Wayne

The Boss

Batman

Drew Stubbs can be Boy Wonder. Laugh Icon goes here. Votto can be Robin

reds44
08-05-2007, 10:44 PM
Please don't call up Dickerson . Stiking out average of .343 (137 stikeouts in 400 ab's )with only 9 homers doesn't impress me. Even Adam Dunn doesn't stike out at that percentage and he has 30 homers.
Strikeouts are overrated.

If he can get on base anywhere close to .370 with his speed and defense, say hello to your leadoff hitter.

Aronchis
08-05-2007, 10:48 PM
Strikeouts are overrated.

If he can get on base anywhere close to .370 with his speed and defense, say hello to your leadoff hitter.

I agree. We are talking about a most likely 4th outfielder. Sounds like he can fit the bill.

Votto as Robin lol. "Wholly cricketstroke boss, that was a farout bomb"
Bruce as Batman: "Now now my little chum, some days even mortal men reach unattainable levels".

indy_dave00
08-05-2007, 10:50 PM
Dickerson had been in rf till today Bruce has played the majority of the time in cf since he got to Louisville.

Dickerson is hitting 269 , sorry if he's k'ing 34 % in minors might be close to 50% in majors. I've watched the kid in person he has a slider speed bat , he's quick , but I don't see him as the answer .

uoduck1017
08-05-2007, 10:53 PM
Bearcat Shane, the date in my sig was the date I put it on there....it was probably just the day I decided my sig needed changed, something (somewhat) permanent...just hopefully not too permanent..........

Ha. When those Cubs fans back in 1908 used that quote for their signature, they didn't think it would be permanent either. Whoops.

reds44
08-05-2007, 10:59 PM
Dickerson had been in rf till today Bruce has played the majority of the time in cf since he got to Louisville.

Dickerson is hitting 269 , sorry if he's k'ing 34 % in minors might be close to 50% in majors. I've watched the kid in person he has a slider speed bat , he's quick , but I don't see him as the answer .
And? Doesn't change the fact Dickerson is the far better defender.

He's OPSing well over .800 since the beginning of June.

indy_dave00
08-05-2007, 11:00 PM
In his 4 full minor league season Chris Dickerson has fanned 106, 124, 129 , and this season 137 times with a month to go , he has yet to learn to use his speed when batting. His homer high is 12 and 48 is rbi high. Career .256 hitter in the minors in 504 games.He's fanned 562 times in 1782 minor league at bats worse part is k % is increasing each year not decreasing.

Guess if he just pinch runs and plays defense he'll be okay. And Jay Bruces is .965 at Sarasota , 1.057 at Chattanooga , and 1.002 at Louisville. For the year .987.....

Look at who is at Louisville Dickerson is batting leadoff by default , hell Anderson Machado was hitting there earlier in the season.

reds44
08-05-2007, 11:03 PM
In his 4 full minor league season Chris Dickerson has fanned 106, 124, 129 , and this season 137 times with a month to go , he has yet to learn to use his speed when batting. His homer high is 12 and 48 is rbi high. Career .256 hitter in the minors in 504 games.He's fanned 562 times in 1782 minor league at bats worse part is k % is increasing each year not decreasing.

Guess if he just pinch runs and plays defense he'll be okay.
I know how much he strikes out, and I really don't care.

If he can hit .255(ish) in the majors with his walking ability he could stick. Anybody with an OBP around .360 with that defense will play in the majors. Strikeouts aside. Not to mention he continues to make strides with the bat.

ochoa30
08-05-2007, 11:06 PM
And? Doesn't change the fact Dickerson is the far better defender.

He's OPSing well over .800 since the beginning of June.

I wouldn't say he is far better. Speed is the only thing he has on bruce, but that is a big thing for a centerfielder. Jay will be a great rightfielder, and for right now he can play both. I like chris but what jay needs as a prospect jay gets. Dickerson is a borderline prospect at best. He sure can be exciting but if he cant utilize his speed by making more contact then he will never be a major leaguer. Maybe a 5th outfielder on a bad team like the reds.

indy_dave00
08-05-2007, 11:18 PM
Show me his strides with the bat - 5 minor league season career on base % .359 this year .359 , stiking out at a higher % each year , exactly where is the improvement? He's not stealing more bases or hitting more homers as he goes along.

Chris is already 25 , no better a hitter than he was a 21 in fact now making less contact.He is now and will remain at best a true AAAA outfielder. Nothing to get excited about, let him come up heaven knows he's "earned it" more than Bruce or Votto.

One advantage he has over Bruce but not Votto is he's on the 40 man roster. So Reds don't have to risk losing anyone exposing them to waivers by removing them from the 40 man .

dougdirt
08-05-2007, 11:20 PM
Show me his strides with the bat - 5 minor league season career on base % .359 this year .359 , stiking out at a higher % each year , exactly where is the improvement? He's not stealing more bases or hitting more homers as he goes along.

Chris is already 25 , no better a hitter than he was a 21 in fact now making less contact.He is now and will remain at best a true AAAA outfielder. Nothing to get excited about, let him come up heaven knows he's "earned it" more than Bruce or Votto.

If he was puting up the same exact numbers at the same level as when he was 21, then yeah, I would say he isn't making any strides, but the fact that he is about the same each level he moves up shows he is making slight improvements, otherwise his numbers would just continue to go down.

indy_dave00
08-05-2007, 11:27 PM
Doug , check his career strikeout numbers they are rising every year, making less contact at each level does not equate improvement.

He has great speed , but has no idea how to use it, he never bunts. He's 6'3 225 , thinks he's a power hitter I guess but career high 12 homers disputes that. If Chris , used his speed , bunted more and made contact yes I'd say he has a future but he doesn't use his best tool his speed.

He wales away at the plate watched him in Indy , he takes a sluggers cut -why?

reds44
08-05-2007, 11:31 PM
Show me his strides with the bat - 5 minor league season career on base % .359 this year .359 , stiking out at a higher % each year , exactly where is the improvement? He's not stealing more bases or hitting more homers as he goes along.

Chris is already 25 , no better a hitter than he was a 21 in fact now making less contact.He is now and will remain at best a true AAAA outfielder. Nothing to get excited about, let him come up heaven knows he's "earned it" more than Bruce or Votto.

One advantage he has over Bruce but not Votto is he's on the 40 man roster. So Reds don't have to risk losing anyone exposing them to waivers by removing them from the 40 man .
So you don't think he is any better now, then he was is say May?

May: .215/.319/.354/.673
June: .261/.381/.455/.835
July: .299/.378/.462/.842
August: .364/.481/.409/.891

That's not making strides? Maybe the light clicked on, maybe it didn't. But that's not making strides?

A. Votto can't play CF
B. I doubt very much the Reds will bring Bruce up this year

Dickerson deserves a shot over the Wise's of the world.

Cedric
08-05-2007, 11:36 PM
Jay Bruce is the best prospect this organization has had in ages and the best minor league ballplayer out there. In a season of crud he's a bright light.

dougdirt
08-05-2007, 11:36 PM
Doug , check his career strikeout numbers they are rising every year, making less contact at each level does not equate improvement.

He has great speed , but has no idea how to use it, he never bunts. He's 6'3 225 , thinks he's a power hitter I guess but career high 12 homers disputes that. If Chris , used his speed , bunted more and made contact yes I'd say he has a future but he doesn't use his best tool his speed.

He wales away at the plate watched him in Indy , he takes a sluggers cut -why?

Strikeouts are overrated. He might strike out 180 times in the big leagues. I could care less as long as he posts a .350 OBP and plays above average defense in CF.

As for him not bunting and swinging for the fences, talk to the Reds hitting coaches in the minors.

indy_dave00
08-05-2007, 11:39 PM
Wise is injured anyway . I really don't care if Chris Dickerson is recalled. I just don't see him as anything to be excited about. If Chris could learn to or would use his speed he MIGHT be a major leaguer in my eyes. But watching him in Indy just swing and miss when he is blessed with speed aggrivated me , and made me sour on him.

With his speed if he cut his k's down 25% he'd raise his average 30 points , he has the Dickerson bloodlines and when he gets into a full speed you see it , he eats up ground with his long legs.

reds44
08-05-2007, 11:40 PM
Wise is injured anyway . I really don't care if Chris Dickerson is recalled. I just don't see him as anything to be excited about. If Chris could learn to or would use his speed he MIGHT be a major leaguer in my eyes. But watching him in Indy just swing and miss when he is blessed with speed aggrivated me , and made me sour on him.
So you saw him in one game and you are basing all your opinons off of that?

I've watched him in plenty of games on milb.tv (granted, not the best judge of talent) and I haven't thought once he needs to bunt more. He actually does lay one down fairly often. Not Norris Hopper often, but I would say at least once or twice a week he tries to bunt for a hit.

Aronchis
08-05-2007, 11:43 PM
Jay Bruce is the best prospect this organization has had in ages and the best minor league ballplayer out there. In a season of crud he's a bright light.

We heard the same thing about Bailey last year, but he wasn't promoted to AAA for a reason in 2006. Bruce on the otherhand, was promoted for a reason in 2007 to AAA.

Bruce projects as the real deal if he fills out his game. Bailey has that type of talent but needs to actually work on pitching this offseason rather than blow his own horn. How he comes out in ST 08 will tell us alot about Homer.

Mario-Rijo
08-05-2007, 11:47 PM
Strikeouts are overrated. He might strike out 180 times in the big leagues. I could care less as long as he posts a .350 OBP and plays above average defense in CF.

As for him not bunting and swinging for the fences, talk to the Reds hitting coaches in the minors.

Strikeouts may very well be overrated (although I don't agree), but at the pace this kid does it, there is now way he puts up anywhere close to a .350 OBP%.

You can't walk everytime and those K's indicate huge and easily exploitable holes in his swing.

He may someday figure it out, but he won't produce much more than defense and decent baserunning right now.

indy_dave00
08-05-2007, 11:48 PM
REDS 44 , remember I was the one that told you about that site. I've watched those games and seen him in person 3 times. Louisville has 2 more trips into Indy this season ,13-15th and Aug 31-Sept 1, I'll be there for those too. Never miss a chance to watch Reds prospects at Victory Field. And Reds 44 relax buddy , we can disagree thats the beauty of being a baseball fan.

dougdirt
08-05-2007, 11:50 PM
Strikeouts may very well be overrated (although I don't agree), but at the pace this kid does it, there is now way he puts up anywhere close to a .350 OBP%.

You can't walk everytime and those K's indicate huge and easily exploitable holes in his swing.

He may someday figure it out, but he won't produce much more than defense and decent baserunning right now.

He is a centerfielder. He needs a .740 OPS to be middle of the road at the position.

Thats also like saying at the rate Dunn or Howard strike out they couldn't put up a .350 OBP.... but somehow they do it just fine. He doesn't have the power like they do, but he also plays a premiere defensive position unlike the other two guys I mentioned.

dougdirt
08-05-2007, 11:52 PM
We heard the same thing about Bailey last year, but he wasn't promoted to AAA for a reason in 2006. Bruce on the otherhand, was promoted for a reason in 2007 to AAA.

Bruce projects as the real deal if he fills out his game. Bailey has that type of talent but needs to actually work on pitching this offseason rather than blow his own horn. How he comes out in ST 08 will tell us alot about Homer.

Bruce is a much better prospect right now than Bailey was in 2006. Homer Bailey was a top 5-10 guy. Jay Bruce is a top 1 or 2 guy.

indy_dave00
08-05-2007, 11:56 PM
Looking forward to viewing Jay Bruce in person for the 5 games here in Indy. Hopefully Cueto will pitch in both the series , maybe Bailey too.

Cedric
08-05-2007, 11:59 PM
We heard the same thing about Bailey last year, but he wasn't promoted to AAA for a reason in 2006. Bruce on the otherhand, was promoted for a reason in 2007 to AAA.

Bruce projects as the real deal if he fills out his game. Bailey has that type of talent but needs to actually work on pitching this offseason rather than blow his own horn. How he comes out in ST 08 will tell us alot about Homer.

Bailey? I've rarely said a word about Bailey and for a reason. Trying to project pitching is about impossible. Position players? Easy.

Bruce will be a star. I'd bet my 57 Mantle Topps on that.

Aronchis
08-06-2007, 12:00 AM
Bruce is a much better prospect right now than Bailey was in 2006. Homer Bailey was a top 5-10 guy. Jay Bruce is a top 1 or 2 guy.

Revisionism. I remember some posts on here last year, that claimed Bailey was the best pitching prospect in baseball.

Bailey must hate the odd years.

Cedric
08-06-2007, 12:02 AM
Revisionism. I remember some posts on here last year, that claimed Bailey was the best pitching prospect in baseball.

Bailey must hate the odd years.

Have you watched the Reds lately? This is a Reds website and you are shocked that people were hyped about a young pitcher? Much less a young pitcher putting up good numbers with a high draft slot?

That still has nothing to do with Jay Bruce. You can't compare him to Bailey. Homer was never as good as Jay is now at his role. Jay Bruce is the best player not in the league.

indy_dave00
08-06-2007, 12:03 AM
Bruce will be a star at 20 , he already makes adjustments. Hitting 312 at Louisville after a slow start. All his power numbers and on base numbers have stayed high at all 3 levels. When he hits a ball it has that special sound.

Mario-Rijo
08-06-2007, 12:04 AM
He is a centerfielder. He needs a .740 OPS to be middle of the road at the position.

Thats also like saying at the rate Dunn or Howard strike out they couldn't put up a .350 OBP.... but somehow they do it just fine. He doesn't have the power like they do, but he also plays a premiere defensive position unlike the other two guys I mentioned.

We'll see, maybe.

SMcGavin
08-06-2007, 12:09 AM
He is a centerfielder. He needs a .740 OPS to be middle of the road at the position.

Thats also like saying at the rate Dunn or Howard strike out they couldn't put up a .350 OBP.... but somehow they do it just fine. He doesn't have the power like they do, but he also plays a premiere defensive position unlike the other two guys I mentioned.

You think he could put up the .350 OBP in the bigs though? He has just hovered around that mark at AA and AAA. I can see Dickerson being a 5th OF (and a good one too with his speed and defense) but I don't see him hitting well enough to be a guy I want getting regular ABs.

reds44
08-06-2007, 12:13 AM
We'll see, maybe.
Hopefully we do get a chance to see. Look at what the White Sox have been doing. Playing young guys like Fields, Owens, and Richar everyday to go along with Floyd and Danks in the rotation. They've actually played better too.

If only the Reds would do this.

dougdirt
08-06-2007, 12:15 AM
Revisionism. I remember some posts on here last year, that claimed Bailey was the best pitching prospect in baseball.

Bailey must hate the odd years.

No sir. Bailey was arguably the best pitching prospect in baseball last year. He still was behind Delmon Young and Alex Gordon on every list around.

Jay Bruce is going to end this year at #1 or #2. Jay Bruce is also a position player, which as everyone knows, don't miss nearly at the rate pitchers do.

reds44
08-06-2007, 12:15 AM
You think he could put up the .350 OBP in the bigs though? He has just hovered around that mark at AA and AAA. I can see Dickerson being a 5th OF (and a good one too with his speed and defense) but I don't see him hitting well enough to be a guy I want getting regular ABs.
Well yeah, that's the question.

Maybe things are starting to click for him in AAA (the talent has always been there), and he will come up and play well. Maybe his 3 month stretch in AAA is just a hot streak.

Call him up and see what happens.

camisadelgolf
08-06-2007, 02:16 AM
Arguably, Dickerson has made strides. His stats might be about the same every year, but in theory, he's facing more difficult pitching every year. My opinion is that Chris Dickerson will be no better than a fourth outfielder. If he plays good defense, has good speed, and isn't good at anything else, then don't start him for the Reds; he could be an ideal substitute, though.

AmarilloRed
08-06-2007, 02:28 AM
There is 1 point I wish to make. With Griffey and Dunn set to have expired contracts after next year, we will shortly have room for 2 starting outfielders. It is crystal-clear Bruce will be one of them, but who will be the second? Chris Dickerson may never be better than a fourth outfielder, but we will need someone to start in the outfield. He may never be a starting outfielder, but we will need someone to start in the short term.

Superdude
08-06-2007, 03:02 AM
Thats also like saying at the rate Dunn or Howard strike out they couldn't put up a .350 OBP.... but somehow they do it just fine. He doesn't have the power like they do, but he also plays a premiere defensive position unlike the other two guys I mentioned.

Dunn and Howard are able to strike out excessively because they hit 40 homers a year. If most of those homers turned into balls in play, "Dickerson", you'd see their averages and OBP drop drastically. Based on what Dickerson has done this year between AA and AAA, here's what his numbers would look like stretched out over 600 plate appearances with a BABIP of .310. The NL average is .298, but I'll give Dickerson some slack based on his speed....


600PA 522AB 331BIP .310BABIP .220/.313/.343/.656 115H 65BB 180K 12HR 14doubles 7triples

Unless he cuts back on the K's, I have a hard time seeing Dickerson putting up even respectable OBP's at the big league level. 4th outfielder at best IMO.

mth123
08-06-2007, 08:10 AM
Dunn and Howard are able to strike out excessively because they hit 40 homers a year. If most of those homers turned into balls in play, "Dickerson", you'd see their averages and OBP drop drastically. Based on what Dickerson has done this year between AA and AAA, here's what his numbers would look like stretched out over 600 plate appearances with a BABIP of .310. The NL average is .298, but I'll give Dickerson some slack based on his speed....


600PA 522AB 331BIP .310BABIP .220/.313/.343/.656 115H 65BB 180K 12HR 14doubles 7triples

Unless he cuts back on the K's, I have a hard time seeing Dickerson putting up even respectable OBP's at the big league level. 4th outfielder at best IMO.

I think this could be accurate, but its time to find out about him. I do think a switch has flipped in the last few months for him. As a ++ defender in CF who can pinch run, he's at minimum a better bench player than say Conine. Waive Conine, let Keppinger get the RH ABs at 1B and call up Dickerson. Start Dickerson for a while in CF and see how he does. Freel and Hopper can play caddies for Dunn and Griffey for late game defense/occasional off days or pinch hit or pinch run.

This team needs to see if it can get by with these lower dollar guys in some roles so higher $ guys (i.e. Freel) can be dealt in the winter.

Ltlabner
08-06-2007, 04:22 PM
My Grandfather and I went to the Dragons game last night (8.5.07).

What a great stadium. All of the staff were very friendly, it was very clean and you were definatley right up on the field. It took a little bit to get used to the slower speed of the pitching and the greatly reduced hitting. That said, the Dragons pitching, in true Reds fashon, surrendered at least 3 homers to the Beloit Snappers IIRC.

We were on the 1b line in row 10 and Logan Parker is one big dude. He may never make it to the bigs, but compared to the other players around him (at least in size) he was a man amoungst boys. Got a couple of hits along the way IIRC.

My new favorite name of all time is Kaltavious Jones. All.Time.

Stubbs had two long drives that ultimatley were long outs.

All in all, a great experience. Suddenly, I'm much more interested in this part of the forum.

Mario-Rijo
08-06-2007, 04:30 PM
My Grandfather and I went to the Dragons game last night (8.5.07).

What a great stadium. All of the staff were very friendly, it was very clean and you were definatley right up on the field. It took a little bit to get used to the slower speed of the pitching and the greatly reduced hitting. That said, the Dragons pitching, in true Reds fashon, surrendered at least 3 homers to the Beloit Snappers IIRC.

We were on the 1b line in row 10 and Logan Parker is one big dude. He may never make it to the bigs, but compared to the other players around him (at least in size) he was a man amoungst boys. Got a couple of hits along the way IIRC.

My new favorite name of all time is Kaltavious Jones. All.Time.

Stubbs had two long drives that ultimatley were long outs.

All in all, a great experience. Suddenly, I'm much more interested in this part of the forum.

Yeah I sat roughly the same place you did about a month ago. I had a very nice experience as well, as always there. I thought the same about Parker as well but Stubbs stood out for his size even moreso too me. Of course he was on base alot more that day perhaps.

Zippy McGee
08-06-2007, 05:55 PM
Cody Strait Triples and scores his second run of the day off a single by Justin Tordi putting Sarasota up 2-0.

Tordi, with 2 promotions this year, but in a fashion that stats people would go, "what?".

Started at Billings in 70 AB's w/ .214/.295/.329 (.624 OPS)
Promoted to Dayton 67 AB's w/ .209/.254/.269 (.523 OPS)
Now up w/ Sarasota 24 AB's w/ .292/.320/.417 (.737 OPS)

Played 3 years at Univ of Miami, and has now had 13 months of Pro Ball. Played Catcher last year and 19 games at SS for Billings this year, at Dayton 13 games at SS, 5 at DH, 3 at 3B, and 2 at C, at Sarasota 6 games at 3B, 1 at 2B, and again today at 2B.


Tordi played at the University of Florida not Miami. The Dragons player who is a Hurricane is Eddy Rodriguez.