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View Full Version : Reds claim Jason Ellison off waivers



Danny Serafini
08-08-2007, 02:39 PM
Per team press notes. Guess now we know who Freel's replacement will be. They'll make a roster move tomorrow when Ellison reports.

cumberlandreds
08-08-2007, 02:40 PM
Coffey should be getting his bags packed.

RichRed
08-08-2007, 02:43 PM
I thought we already had this guy, only his name's Norris Hopper?

BRM
08-08-2007, 02:43 PM
How does Jason Ellison help, other than just being a warm body for the bench?

registerthis
08-08-2007, 02:43 PM
Whoo.

Red Leader
08-08-2007, 02:46 PM
I thought we already had this guy, only his name's Tony Womack?

Fixed that for you...

Chip R
08-08-2007, 02:47 PM
How does Jason Ellison help, other than just being a warm body for the bench?

Keeps them from having to call up Jay Bruce, Dickerson or play Conine and/or Keppinger in the OF.

RichRed
08-08-2007, 02:47 PM
Isn't this the guy who was replaced by Adam Jones that got Jose Guillen all bent out of shape?

I'm thrilled we got this guy, a 29-year-old with a career .663 OPS. But hey, look at that sparkly .283 batting average this year.

redsmetz
08-08-2007, 02:48 PM
I'm guessing he's another body they can have for the remainder of the season plus he can be in the mix for a bench spot next year.

Red Leader
08-08-2007, 02:49 PM
He's arbitration eligible at the end of the season. Bonus!

westofyou
08-08-2007, 02:50 PM
Isn't this the guy who was replaced by Adam Jones that got Jose Guillen all bent out of shape?

I'm thrilled we got this guy, a 29-year-old with a career .663 OPS. But hey, look at that sparkly .283 batting average this year.

Injuries plus the current record and the need to keep Conine out of the OF drives this bus, just more bench ballast that doesn't tack service time on prospective prospects.

RedsManRick
08-08-2007, 02:51 PM
Speed? Check. Mediocre average? Check. Dislike of walks? Check. Complete and utter lack of power? Check.

At least Bowden's thing was for guys with 5 tools. Free talent. Wasted season. Ok, I guess.

Though with Dickerson hitting .269/.371/.427, don't we already have this guy?

flyer85
08-08-2007, 02:54 PM
I wasn't really sure it was possible to make the team worse.

By comparison he does make Hopper look good.

pahster
08-08-2007, 02:59 PM
2007 - .283/.298/.283/.581
Career - .258/.304/.359/.663

Woohoo!

mbgrayson
08-08-2007, 03:00 PM
He's arbitration eligible at the end of the season. Bonus!

I don't think so.

If we don't offer arbitration and he goes, there won't be any compensation picks unless he is a type a, b, or c player. And he is not. Only the top 40% of players at a given position qualify for any compensation picks under the latest labor agreement.

I doubt we want to offer him arbitration anyway....

See THIS SITE (http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/583281.html)for a summary of the rules.

BRM
08-08-2007, 03:01 PM
Keeps them from having to call up Jay Bruce, Dickerson or play Conine and/or Keppinger in the OF.

At first my thought was I'd prefer they call up Dickerson if an outfielder is needed. But I'd rather let Chris continue to get at-bats than come up and just sit the bench.

Reds Fanatic
08-08-2007, 03:03 PM
Another move that makes no sense. Hamilton will be ready soon so why the need for Ellison.

BRM
08-08-2007, 03:04 PM
Another move the makes no sense. Hamilton will be ready soon so why the need for Ellison.

The Reds needed another weak bat on the bench.

flyer85
08-08-2007, 03:04 PM
These kind of moves(where WK acquires a player with absolutely no value) are the ones that leave me scratching my head and doubting his ability.

I see Ellison as a player = 0, WK sees Ellison and sees something different. It doesn't mean he is going to play but that isn't the point.

Red Leader
08-08-2007, 03:07 PM
I don't think so.

If we don't offer arbitration and he goes, there won't be any compensation picks unless he is a type a, b, or c player. And he is not. Only the top 40% of players at a given position qualify for any compensation picks under the latest labor agreement.

I doubt we want to offer him arbitration anyway....

See THIS SITE (http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/583281.html)for a summary of the rules.

Thanks for the info.

A couple of things:

1) I was being sarcastic so I probably should have inserted this guy = ;)

2) I was responding to redsmetz post about Ellison being in the mix for a bench spot next year. I probably should have quoted that post.

Basically I was saying that if the Reds were seriously going to consider Ellison for a bench spot next year, they'll have to offer him arbitration and likely pay a lot more for his services than he is worth, which, IMO, is anything above the major league minimum.

So, I agree with you that their is no way in hell the Reds should offer him arbitration at the end of this year. He won't net any draft picks and he won't be of any use next year to this team (God help us if we think he will).

I appreciate all of the work you put into your post, though. My fault for not being clear in my post.

westofyou
08-08-2007, 03:07 PM
These kind of moves(where WK acquires a player with absolutely no value) are the ones that leave me scratching my head and doubting his ability.

I see Ellison and see player = 0, WK sees Ellision and see something different. It doesn't mean he is going to play but that isn't the point.

Who would you put in as a 5th OF?

Dunn and Griffey can't field that well, Hamilton ain't here yet, Freel is gone, everyone hates Hopper and Conine.

Sometimes you're out of toilet paper and you have to think quick and cover your... well you get the drift.

What colors this move in the long run is the cost (waivers) and how long he actually sticks around. Until then it's a CYA move.

nate
08-08-2007, 03:13 PM
Who would you put in as a 5th OF?

Dunn and Griffey can't field that well, Hamilton ain't here yet, Freel is gone, everyone hates Hopper and Conine.

Sometimes you're out of toilet paper and you have to think quick and cover your... well you get the drift.

What colors this move in the long run is the cost (waivers) and how long he actually sticks around. Until then it's a CYA move.

You're ruining "the moment".

puca
08-08-2007, 03:15 PM
I'll worry if he sticks around past the point Hamilton is ready. Personally I would have rather seen Dickerson for a week, but if Norris is going to the get starts, calling up Dickerson would have been pointless.

flyer85
08-08-2007, 03:16 PM
Who would you put in as a 5th OF?
I would assume Hamilton will be a back in a day or two. Ellison is not worthy of a MLB roster spot. They managed the last 4-5 days an OF short, I would assume another day or two isn't going to kill them at this point. Heck, bring up Dickerson or Bruce. Ellison isn't even 40 man roster material.

Red Leader
08-08-2007, 03:17 PM
You're ruining "the moment".

:laugh:

Rationally, I have no problems with this move. As woy said, it's a CYA move, and makes sense because of the injuries the Reds have.

Mentally, though, it's just therapeutic to bash on Krivsky right now. That's just my way of sticking it to the man. :D

nate
08-08-2007, 03:19 PM
:laugh:

Rationally, I have no problems with this move. As woy said, it's a CYA move, and makes sense because of the injuries the Reds have.

Mentally, though, it's just therapeutic to bash on Krivsky right now. That's just my way of sticking it to the man. :D

But aren't you..."the man"?

Red Leader
08-08-2007, 03:23 PM
But aren't you..."the man"?

No, I'm Chico. RFS is "the man" :lol:

http://www.umich.edu/~ac213/student_projects/fp/images/ChicoandtheMan.jpg

Roy Tucker
08-08-2007, 03:30 PM
So do the Reds have wiggle room on the 40 man roster so that they don't lose somebody with value like what happened with Brendan Harris last year?

Red Leader
08-08-2007, 03:34 PM
So do the Reds have wiggle room on the 40 man roster so that they don't lose somebody with value like what happened with Brendan Harris last year?

I'm showing their 40 man is at 39 right now. So Ellison can be added without having to take someone off.

Even if it's not, they can move Castro to the 60 day DL to open another spot.

BRM
08-08-2007, 03:37 PM
I would assume Hamilton will be a back in a day or two. Ellison is not worthy of a MLB roster spot. They managed the last 4-5 days an OF short, I would assume another day or two isn't going to kill them at this point. Heck, bring up Dickerson or Bruce. Ellison isn't even 40 man roster material.

If Ellison is added tomorrow and Hamilton gets added by the end of the week, then one of the position players will have to go. I can't imagine Wayne will drop to 11 pitchers.

westofyou
08-08-2007, 03:43 PM
I would assume Hamilton will be a back in a day or two. Ellison is not worthy of a MLB roster spot. They managed the last 4-5 days an OF short, I would assume another day or two isn't going to kill them at this point. Heck, bring up Dickerson or Bruce. Ellison isn't even 40 man roster material.

So if they "tried to get by" and it completly failed then no one would have a problem with that?

I mean besides me?

Because I was watching Geoff Blum play the outfield the other night and it was frightening.

redsmetz
08-08-2007, 03:44 PM
I was unaware that he would be arbitration eligible (didn't check actually), so I agree he's just here from this year.

I'm thinking the Reds may keep Hamilton down at Louisville the maximum amount of time (and I can't remember how long that is). I'm thinking they're in no rush to bring him back yet, but that's just my opinion.

Tom Servo
08-08-2007, 04:00 PM
Well Wayne tried to get him back in April from the Giants, he must be thrilled to pick him up. I fail to see what he can provide that Dickerson can't.

flyer85
08-08-2007, 04:10 PM
So if they "tried to get by" and it completly failed then no one would have a problem with that?

I mean besides me? At this point it doesn't matter, it sure beats putting garbage on your roster when there are a lot of better options(it always makes me wonder if the FO thinks there are better options).

BTW, I had no problem with what WK did yesterday because he didn't introduce any new trash to the 40 man roster. Today he brought in a new hefty bag ... and that is unsettling.

redsfan4445
08-08-2007, 04:12 PM
why didnt they just ask for Pena back?? at least he would be an upgrade off the bench.. :(

puca
08-08-2007, 04:15 PM
Again I'll fret about the move if Ellison sticks around more than a few days. It does reinforce my belief that Wayne doesn't pay any attention to OBP at all though.

westofyou
08-08-2007, 04:16 PM
At this point it doesn't matter, it sure beats putting garbage on your roster when there are a lot of better options(it always makes me wonder if the FO thinks there are better options).

BTW, I had no problem with what WK did yesterday because he didn't introduce any new trash to the 40 man roster. Today he brought in a new hefty bag ... and that is unsettling.

Injuries in baseball are like a summer rain storm in the Midwest, sometimes they just hit you and you have wear that Hefty Bag as a raincoat for a little while, then you toss it. It ain't Gortex, but it's cheap and protects part of you.

KronoRed
08-08-2007, 04:18 PM
Can we never claim a guy who can take a walk? ;)

Big deal on this move, warm body, Mack won't be crazy enough to actually play him

flyer85
08-08-2007, 04:19 PM
wouldn't Dickerson or Bruce for a few days sufficed just as well?

My guess is that Ellison is on the roster to stay.

MartyFan
08-08-2007, 04:22 PM
wouldn't Dickerson or Bruce for a few days sufficed just as well?

My guess is that Ellison is on the roster to stay.

So you want to start the MLB clock on Bruce to fill in for a few days as a 5th OF?

Somebody said special K wanted this guy from the Giants in the Spring...any threads or info about that deal and why it didn't happen?

BRM
08-08-2007, 04:22 PM
wouldn't Dickerson or Bruce for a few days sufficed just as well?

My guess is that Ellison is on the roster to stay.

It wouldn't surprise me if he's here for the rest of 2007.

Tom Servo
08-08-2007, 04:24 PM
one thing I can say about getting Ellison is that my attention span likes to see a new DeWayne Wise as opposed to the regular DeWayne Wise.

flyer85
08-08-2007, 04:26 PM
So you want to start the MLB clock on Bruce to fill in for a few days as a 5th OF?3 days of major league service isn't going to change anything. WK has always stated that the service time is never an issue.

BTW, I would have just brought up Dickerson.

westofyou
08-08-2007, 04:29 PM
3 days of major league service isn't going to change anything. WK has always stated that the service time is never an issue.

Wouldn't it waste an option and a year of said options?

flyer85
08-08-2007, 04:33 PM
Wouldn't it waste an option and a year of said options?If the Reds ever have to worry about running of options with Bruce it would suffice to say he would be the biggest disappointment in the history of Redzone.

Like I said, easy answer was Dickerson.

westofyou
08-08-2007, 04:38 PM
If the Reds ever have to worry about running of options with Bruce it would suffice to say he would be the biggest disappointment in the history of Redzone.


Wow, that's a heavy crown to wear.

WMP showed me the value of options, Josh Hamilton shows that a sure thing sometimes has some bumps.

Me?

I go and trade Willie Greene for Jeffery Hammonds myself.

Heath
08-08-2007, 04:42 PM
Well, do the Reds have Ellison to pay? Or, since he was waived, isn't the other club responsible for his paycheck?

If he's free, why the heck not?

puca
08-08-2007, 04:44 PM
They have to pay him the pro-rated minimum salary for the time he spends on the roster. Plus they have to pay the waiver fees. So he isn't free, but he isn't very expensive either.

edabbs44
08-08-2007, 04:51 PM
Move doesn't matter at all, until he is the opening day CFer next season.

Until then they could have my puppy playing CF and it won't phase me.

Roy Tucker
08-08-2007, 04:54 PM
I'm OK with it.

If there is an open spot on the roster, they are a little thin in the OF, the guy shows some promise as a Norris Hopper-type 4th-5th OF, they don't want to rush up a prospect, and he may prove to be a serviceable part, then ... OK. If he flunks out, cast him back into the sea.

I'd rather they do this than call up Dewayne Wise.

Danny Serafini
08-08-2007, 04:55 PM
Because he was claimed the Reds will have to pay the full salary. Had he cleared waivers and signed with the Reds then the Giants would've shared the cost. Can't imagine he's making much anyway, though.

BRM
08-08-2007, 04:56 PM
From C. Trent.



Both Wayne and Pete said they will likely be down to 12 pitchers tomorrow.

I have been told there's a good reason Coffey is still here and it will become apparent. We'll see.

westofyou
08-08-2007, 04:59 PM
I have been told there's a good reason Coffey is still here and it will become apparent. We'll see.

For some reason this image keeps popping in my head... well after this actually.

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/the_empire_strikes_back/mark_hamill/epv3.jpg

Red Leader
08-08-2007, 05:00 PM
You mean the part where he slashes the Ton-Tons gut open and crawls in?

Doc. Scott
08-08-2007, 05:00 PM
I'm OK with it.

If there is an open spot on the roster, they are a little thin in the OF, the guy shows some promise as a Norris Hopper-type 4th-5th OF, they don't want to rush up a prospect, and he may prove to be a serviceable part, then ... OK. If he flunks out, cast him back into the sea.

I'd rather they do this than call up Dewayne Wise.


Besides, DeWayne Wise has been hurt lately- on and off the DL in Louisville multiple times.

---
Ellison went to Lewis-Clark State College in Lewiston, ID- same as current Reds' farmhand Carlos Fisher. Interesting.

BRM
08-08-2007, 05:01 PM
A little more on Ellison from C. Trent.



The Reds put in a waiver claim on Ellison and didn't hear until 1:30 today that they'd gotten him. Basically, he's a backup outfielder. Right now they've got Keppinger, who has played one inning in the big leagues in the outfield and Jeff Conine as their backup outfielders. It's a low-risk move. Wayne said they are going to be deliberate with Hamilton and make sure he's fine before they call him up. At least let him have a 9-inning game under his belt.

Tom Servo
08-08-2007, 05:02 PM
You mean the part where he slashes the Ton-Tons gut open and crawls in?
That's what they plan to do with Coffey? :eek:

nate
08-08-2007, 05:04 PM
That's what they plan to do with Coffey? :eek:

No, Stanton is the Ton Ton.

Coffey is Luke.

Send your kids out of the room...there's no need for them to see this.

Heath
08-08-2007, 05:05 PM
For some reason this image keeps popping in my head... well after this actually.

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/the_empire_strikes_back/mark_hamill/epv3.jpg

Isn't this where Jabba captures Leia and makes her dress in a bikini???

:dunno:

Red Leader
08-08-2007, 05:05 PM
That's what they plan to do with Coffey? :eek:

:dunno:


I do know that there is a striking resemblance between a Ton-Ton running on frozen ground and Todd Coffey running in from the bullpen.

Red Leader
08-08-2007, 05:06 PM
Isn't this where Jabba captures Leia and makes her dress in a bikini???

:dunno:

No, you pervert, that's Return of the Jedi. We're only on Empire right now.

Redsland
08-08-2007, 05:08 PM
Oh, you mean the one in which the good guys don't win.

Appropriate.

(On the plus side, I seem to recall that a Jedi spent a lot of time improving the farm system in that movie.)

:)

SteelSD
08-08-2007, 05:26 PM
Gorram it!

It's spelled "tauntaun".

Red Leader
08-08-2007, 05:29 PM
Gorram it!

It's spelled "tauntaun".


:laugh: :beerme:

VR
08-08-2007, 05:35 PM
Bat second Jason Ellison will.

BRM
08-08-2007, 05:40 PM
Bat second Jason Ellison will.

The potential is certainly there if he has good speed.

smith288
08-08-2007, 05:44 PM
Yes. Of Hoth. These omnivores can sustain the fridged temps during the day but not during the night...

So yea, like Coffey...

BRM
08-08-2007, 05:44 PM
Krivsky on Ellison, per C. Trent:


Here's what the Krivdawg had to say about Ellison: "He was on waivers and I didnít know if we were going to get him or not. We found out at 1:30 or so today and we got him. Having an idea Freel might be down and Josh might not be ready, thatís why we put a claim in on him. Heís always been an extra outfielder, guys like him get more playing time in the National League. He doesnít have a lot of at-bats this year."

VR
08-08-2007, 05:47 PM
guys like him get more playing time in the National League

A good time to use these for the first time.

:KoolAid: :thisyear:

pahster
08-08-2007, 06:05 PM
"He doesnít have a lot of at-bats this year."


I'm not certain, but there could be a good reason for that...

gm
08-08-2007, 06:05 PM
For some reason this image keeps popping in my head... well after this actually.

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/the_empire_strikes_back/mark_hamill/epv3.jpg

If I were you, Luke, I wouldn't bother looking in those binoculars...your tauntaun is a more reliable "trouble detector"

KronoRed
08-08-2007, 06:22 PM
Yeah but he'll die before you reach the first marker

MrCinatit
08-08-2007, 07:45 PM
Ellison is only 30 - isn't that a little young for Wayne? I mean...Franco is out there somewhere...

GAC
08-08-2007, 09:17 PM
Who would you put in as a 5th OF?

Dunn and Griffey can't field that well, Hamilton ain't here yet, Freel is gone, everyone hates Hopper and Conine.

Sometimes you're out of toilet paper and you have to think quick and cover your... well you get the drift.

What colors this move in the long run is the cost (waivers) and how long he actually sticks around. Until then it's a CYA move.

You need to quit making sense. But you're exactly right. You just lost Freel for the year, and they quickly grab this guy, not because he's the future; but because they need a body, he's cheap, and very easily expendable. I don't know why some make such a big deal out of moves like this.

Maybe it's because they can't see what the motive was to begin with?

mth123
08-08-2007, 09:31 PM
You need to quit making sense. But you're exactly right. You just lost Freel for the year, and they quickly grab this guy, not because he's the future; but because they need a body, he's cheap, and very easily expendable. I don't know why some make such a big deal out of moves like this.

Maybe it's because they can't see what the motive was to begin with?

Or maybe its because Freel is part of the Dreck we've been hoping to get out of the way so we can see if any of the younger guys will be usable. Ellison has proven over he's career that he is not a player of interest IMO. I also think its likely that Dickerson will prove the same, but I would have liked to have gotten a look. We know he has major league caliber speed and defense so how is Ellison better? We know its not his bat. The only thing I can come up with is that Louisville is short on OF and the Reds didn't want to bring him up.

camisadelgolf
08-08-2007, 09:44 PM
It's a quality signing, in my opinion. The outfield depth is in bad position right now, and I think Jeff Ellison is basically a Jeff Keppinger of the outfield.

LoganBuck
08-08-2007, 09:51 PM
If the Reds come up short in attempts to sign some remaining unsigned draft picks, specifically Stouffer and Hillenbrand, and they spent the extra bucks on this, I will be very angry. The waiver fee, plus the prorated portion of his salary is like $130,000. That money is likely the difference of bringing in those unsigned picks. They better not play poor, if they get left standing on the alter on August 15th.

Gallen5862
08-08-2007, 10:10 PM
I look at this move as a decent move. It adds depth to the outfield and to the organization. I think this move also might be part of another roster move. I agree with you LoganBuck about signing the draft picks and not claiming being poor.

REDREAD
08-08-2007, 10:27 PM
But here's the important question:

Does he know how to lose the "right way"? :lol:

I guess Maj and Guarado can teach him, if need be...

Ravenlord
08-08-2007, 10:58 PM
woy and BRM for GM-king!

pedro
08-08-2007, 11:04 PM
meh

cincinnati chili
08-08-2007, 11:39 PM
Waste of time. There's better garbage kickin' round the waiver wire than this.

camisadelgolf
08-09-2007, 12:27 AM
Waste of time. There's better garbage kickin' round the waiver wire than this.

What is it?

WVRedsFan
08-09-2007, 12:39 AM
:bang:

No need to comment. You wonder how people can spin this as a good move. We need an outfielder and one or two less pitchers (and please, God, no more catchers), but even though the clock would be running on whatever kid you'd bring up, why this?

I have to remind myself that it doesn't matter. Over and over.

KronoRed
08-09-2007, 01:25 AM
Waste of time. There's better garbage kickin' round the waiver wire than this.

Yeah but this is cheap garbage

savafan
08-09-2007, 02:15 AM
Yeah but he'll die before you reach the first marker

Then he'll see you in hell! :beerme:

And I thought they smelled bad...on the outside...

bucksfan2
08-09-2007, 08:46 AM
I see nothing wrong with this move. The reds needed a 4th outfielder and Ellison serves that roll as well as a 5th outfielder when Hamilton is brought up. You could have brought Dickerson up but you would be waisting an option and for a guy like Dickerson that may be important. You could bring Bruce up but I believe that would mean you put him on the 40 man roster. Ellison was also a guy targed by Krivsky earlier in the year so this move makes sense.


If the Reds come up short in attempts to sign some remaining unsigned draft picks, specifically Stouffer and Hillenbrand, and they spent the extra bucks on this, I will be very angry. The waiver fee, plus the prorated portion of his salary is like $130,000. That money is likely the difference of bringing in those unsigned picks. They better not play poor, if they get left standing on the alter on August 15th.

I dont see this move effecting that signing of draft picks at all. I think the organization handles the major league club and the draft as two entirely separate entities.

BRM
08-09-2007, 09:11 AM
Yeah but this is cheap garbage

That's the important part. If you're going to add garbage to the roster during a lost year, at least make sure it's cheap garbage.

GAC
08-09-2007, 09:23 AM
Or maybe its because Freel is part of the Dreck we've been hoping to get out of the way so we can see if any of the younger guys will be usable. Ellison has proven over he's career that he is not a player of interest IMO.

Oh, I'm not arguing or disagreeing with that assessment mth.

And it may be possible that he was acquired just as you say below....


I also think its likely that Dickerson will prove the same, but I would have liked to have gotten a look. We know he has major league caliber speed and defense so how is Ellison better? We know its not his bat. The only thing I can come up with is that Louisville is short on OF and the Reds didn't want to bring him up.

Or maybe they didn't want to start the arb clock on one of their young players? There could be some valid other reasons. It's not like teams are going to be simply releasing quality, young talent to the waiver wire right now.

It's just not a move that I'm going to get all worried over.

nate
08-09-2007, 10:02 AM
I dunno, not a move to bolster one's playoff chances but one that maybe makes sense if you look at the Bats' current roster:




Name Pos Bat Status 40-man MLB AVG OBP SLG OPS
Jeff Bannon RF R Active No 0.248 0.310 0.316 0.626
Jay Bruce OF L Active No 0.307 0.369 0.604 0.973
Bubba Crosby OF L Disabled 7-Day No 0.128 0.261 0.282 0.543
Chris Dickerson OF L Active Yes 0.263 0.363 0.416 0.779
Josh Hamilton OF L Active Yes 0.367 0.424 0.800 1.224
Dewayne Wise OF L Disabled 7-Day No 0.251 0.284 0.473 0.758


What I see is this:

1. NoHo is currently the only RH outfielder the Reds have (OK, Conine too but...well...you know).

2. The Bats only have 4 outfielders right now although Votto did play OF last night.

3. Of those 4 (5 if you count Votto) only 1 is right handed. He is hitting .248 and not on the 40-man.

4. Hamilton will, obviously, be coming back but they want to make sure he's OK first and are in no hurry to bring him back. Maybe when Wise comes back because Crosby is done for the season (I believe).

5. Ellison is no world beater but its another RH bat that doesn't change the organizational depth one bit.

6. Dickerson would be nice to see but he's another lefty and the Bats are shallow in the OF.

7. Josh Hamilton likes AAA pitching.

8. So does Jay Bruce.

9. Bubba Crosby doesn't but he sure can work a walk.

westofyou
08-09-2007, 10:18 AM
Waste of time. There's better garbage kickin' round the waiver wire than this.

Where though?

If your CF goes down (Freel) and the other is in AAA on rehab and you need a CF tis week... this week... who's on the waiver wire?

How would we know?

BRM
08-09-2007, 10:20 AM
I can see the calls for Chris Dickerson but all in all this a pretty insignificant move and one I can somewhat understand. Unless Ellison starts getting lots of playing time...

WVRedsFan
08-09-2007, 10:25 AM
Upon further review...

Ellison is fodder. My guess is that's he's good defensively (I have no idea) and that was the impetus for taking him. That and his <$400,000 salary. Will he get playing time? You betcha. I'd also bet that they looked at that .283 average and ignored the pitiful OBP.

More of the same.

westofyou
08-09-2007, 10:28 AM
Will he get playing time? You betcha.

Yeah, probably the same kind of MLB OF time that everyone fretted about Bubba Crosby and Jeff Conine getting.

Can't wait for the waterfall effect.

Marc D
08-09-2007, 11:14 AM
I'm just waiting for the first time he gets a hit and team Brennaman calls for him to be the starting LFer.

westofyou
08-09-2007, 11:17 AM
I'm just waiting for the first time he gets a hit and team Brennaman calls for him to be the starting LFer.

I can hear the boos now as the ball skips across the grass.

Puffy
08-09-2007, 12:19 PM
How the heck are there 4 pages on this signing? Who cares?

I will once again reiterate though - Krivsky continues his disturbing trend of acquiring average to barely above average defensive players who need a compass to find first base.

KronoRed
08-09-2007, 01:30 PM
Puffy I think you're being generous by calling some of these players average

savafan
08-09-2007, 01:42 PM
How the heck are there 4 pages on this signing? Who cares?

I will once again reiterate though - Krivsky continues his disturbing trend of acquiring average to barely above average defensive players who need a compass to find first base.

Couldn't agree more. I couldn't even believe this got stickied...

Move along, nothing to see here.

Chip R
08-09-2007, 01:49 PM
Couldn't agree more. I couldn't even believe this got stickied...

Move along, nothing to see here.


Threads get stickied so multiple threads aren't started on the same topic. It really doesn't have anything to do with the importance of the transaction.

savafan
08-09-2007, 01:57 PM
Threads get stickied so multiple threads aren't started on the same topic. It really doesn't have anything to do with the importance of the transaction.

That makes sense, but in this case, I still can't believe that more than one person cared...

:p:

Chip R
08-09-2007, 01:58 PM
That makes sense, but in this case, I still can't believe that more than one person cared...

:p:

101 posts so far and 2,800 views say different. :)

savafan
08-09-2007, 03:21 PM
101 posts so far and 2,800 views say different. :)

Well, I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again... :D

GAC
08-09-2007, 08:32 PM
Threads get stickied so multiple threads aren't started on the same topic. It really doesn't have anything to do with the importance of the transaction.

And I like stickys!

Only one click away to all the Reds news anyone needs to know. http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/merv/groucho.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

cincinnati chili
08-10-2007, 11:11 PM
Where though?

If your CF goes down (Freel) and the other is in AAA on rehab and you need a CF tis week... this week... who's on the waiver wire?

How would we know?

Fair enough. I don't have access to the daily waiver wire, but I assure you better talent is on it than Jason Ellison if you pay attention. Wayne's had a couple years access to the waiver wire, and what's he gotten? Meanwhile, the Billy Beanes of the world get Jack Cust.

Ellison makes zero sense for this team because he has zero chance of still being here when this team's good. It's not like we're one defensive replacement away from contention.

LoganBuck
08-10-2007, 11:14 PM
Meanwhile, the Billy Beanes of the world get Jack Cust.



Jack Cust has been on many teams, Billy Beane just happened to be holding him this year.

flyer85
08-10-2007, 11:30 PM
Jack Cust has been on many teams, Billy Beane just happened to be holding him this year.Beane happened to give him a chance. He gets credit for doing it because no one else had.

LoganBuck
08-10-2007, 11:40 PM
Beane happened to give him a chance. He gets credit for doing it because no one else had.

True, but to say no one else gave him a shot is a stretch. Cust has had plenty of opportunity. I am glad for him, and for Beane.

flyer85
08-10-2007, 11:43 PM
True, but to say no one else gave him a shot is a stretch. Cust has had plenty of opportunity. I am glad for him, and for Beane.I would hardly call 150 ABs much of a chance.

SteelSD
08-11-2007, 12:17 AM
I would hardly call 150 ABs much of a chance.

I'd go further than that and note that Cust received a tryout of more than 50 AB only twice at the MLB level. At age 23, he stunk to a tune of a .541 OPS (65 AB) for Colorado in 2002, but produced excellent results for Baltimore (.878 OPS) over 73 AB in 2003 at age 24. He's 28 now and has produced a .931 OPS for Oakland; resulting in a career MLB OPS of .851 after a career MiL OPS of .947.

Jack Cust has always been on my radar and he's a real asset- particularly during his age-prime seasons. Jonny Gomes would be another excellent target for a team who is looking for performance on the cheap as Tampa Bay doesn't appear to really value him. Cody Ross is a projectible player Krivsky had in hand but decided to jettison in order to keep Quinton McCracken. Apparently, Ross looked awful in jeans?

So now we sit watching Jason Ellison beig claimed off the wire. Yawn. This is a guy who, allegedly, has a speed game but who's produced a minor league SB rate of 64%. He's got little power, but I'll bet his .406 BA in 192 AB in the 2006 PCL made quite an impression on Krivsky even though he was 28 at the time while performing in a hitter's league.

At this point, it's pretty clear what Krivsky's game is and I really don't want any part of it.

RedsBaron
08-11-2007, 07:31 AM
Jacob Jackson had a good article in "The Hardball Times" on 8/8/07 entitled "How To Fix The Pirates," a team on its way to its 15th straight losing season, one shy of the record set by the 1933-45 Phillies. In that article he stated that in "the current baseball economy, all the large and mid-market teams have closed the Moneyball information gap completely, just within the last few years. Every GM has a pretty good idea what on-base percentage and good defense are actually worth, or they've smartly hired someone to study those things for them. The big "undervalued commodity" windows have been closed, which was inevitable..... The Twins and A's have taken a step back, in small part because the Royals and Devil Rays are now very well operated, too.....Now the only way for a truly small-market team to make the playoffs is to have a great crop of position and pitching prospects arrive on the scene almost simultaneously."
I sometimes get the impression that Wayne is swimming against this tide of baseball knowledge, acquiring players with poor on-base skills.

cincinnati chili
08-12-2007, 03:28 AM
Every GM has a pretty good idea what on-base percentage and good defense are actually worth, or they've smartly hired someone to study those things for them.

In my opinion, about 75% of GMs still don't understand this, and either ignore or misapply the information that their hired parties provide them.

There's still far, far too many non-data-driven decisions. The premise of Moneyball still holds true. Overall, it's an illogical market.