Pick up Guardado's option for 2008?

[Jr's Boy]

I say no way,use that money for youth.Of the bungled trades and moves Krivsky has made,if he pick's up the option you must question yourself asking why I'm a fan of the Reds.And yes I know I made a post '' hurry back Eddie''in haste.

[redsfanmia]

The guy is all heart and would be a great addition just by teaching the younger guys.

[Orenda]

The guy is all heart and would be a great addition just by teaching the younger guys.

Then what will Stanton do?

[Blue]

How about "wait and see" as an option?

[jimbo]

How about "wait and see" as an option?

Agreed. Way too early to tell. Let's ask the question after game 162.

[Chi-Town Red]

unless he is lights out the rest of the season, cut him loose

[jnwohio]

I am with the wait and see crowd. His velocity seems to be steady in the 87 range; but his location command is not there (yet). Also I haven't seen any breaking stuff or change of speed out of him.

If his arm is still sound at end of the season and he has started to show command, I say keep him.

If he follows the historical pattern of guys with TJ surgery, he should be throwing 90ish in the spring and eventually back to his previous 92/93 range by mid season. With his savvy that is plenty of speed if he can command and throw even an occasional change up or breaking ball.

[captainmorgan07]

notta chance the savior has worn out his welcome with me already.

[Muggerd]

How about "wait and see" as an option?

.
Lets see what hes doing at the end of the year before we decide. Maybe we resign him to a better contract at seasons end. 3.5 million is going to be tough to sell to the fans unless he is playing amazing.

[AmarilloRed]

I will not vote yet, as he has yet to play much this year. However here are his stats so far: a 22.50 era in 2 innings, giving up 5 hits, 5 earned runs in 2 innings. A bad start, and he will have to do much better for the Reds to pick up the option. 3.5 million is a lot of money. I would expect he would need to lower that era by 19 1/2 runs.

[durl]

I'm in the "wait and see" crowd. I expected him to be rough around the edges but perhaps not THIS rough. Still, the guy has gotten the job done in the past so he may pull out of it.

This board seems to love scrappy players who show emotion and work hard. That pretty much defines Guardado.

[AmarilloRed]

He would need to be back to 2006 form to have the option picked up. The Reds need a closer, and if he is back to form they will pick up his option. It is an open question whether he is back to form.

[markymark69]

For now, I say pass. I think his best days are behind. Coutlangus can handle that spot and if we can't shed Stanton, there is really no room for him. Bray, Coutlangus and Stanton would be three lefties out of the 'pen and I think Gosling gives them more than Eddie.

Hate to say it, because I liked the pick-up when it occurred last year, but we can do better, we have better than Guardado.

[Caveman Techie]

Anyone know how much the option is for? That has alot to do with it, if it's not too much sure I'd take a flier on it. If it's over say 1 million then I'd be leaning towards letting him walk.

[Degenerate39]

Anyone know how much the option is for? That has alot to do with it, if it's not too much sure I'd take a flier on it. If it's over say 1 million then I'd be leaning towards letting him walk.

3.5 million

[GoReds33]

Eddie is a terrific presence, but he isn't worth 3.5 million dollars. I would love to see him in a Reds uniform next year, but at a much lesser salary number.

[AmarilloRed]

I will say this: Eddie was worth 3.5 million in 2006. It seemed like he successfully saved every game he was in from the time he was traded to the Reds to the time he was injured. He was a major reason we were competitive up to September.It may be that he will never be the same pitcher he was last year. I believe the Reds will decline the option unless he is lights out the rest of the year, then look to sign him to a lesser contract in the hopes he will comeback in 2008.

[GoReds33]

I will say this: Eddie was worth 3.5 million in 2006. It seemed like he successfully saved every game he was in from the time he was traded to the Reds to the time he was injured. He was a major reason we were competitive up to September.It may be that he will never be the same pitcher he was last year. I believe the Reds will decline the option unless he is lights out the rest of the year, then look to sign him to a lesser contract in the hopes he will comeback in 2008.

If I am correct he was paid much more than 3.5 million last year. This was a new contract that was incentive laiden over the offseason.

[AmarilloRed]

My point was that he was worth every penny in 2006. He would need to play at a comparable level to have the option picked up for 2008. I am going to vote now. I believe he will never be the pitcher he was last year again, and I am voting "Too many Arm Issues.

[AmarilloRed]

It is clear tonight that Eddie simply has nothing left, and it would be kind to let him spend the rest of the year on the AAA bench. None of his pitches got over 86 tonight, and he could not locate them. I really hope Guardado retires after this year for his own sake.

[Slyder]

There's no way I'd even think about exercising it at this point. You can't risk that kind of cash on 37 yr olds. He's got a better chance (given his history) to being Mike Stanton next year. If the Reds think he could help next year tell him he'd be more a teacher than pitcher and offer him a spring training invite w/ incentives. If someone else wants to guarentee him $ fine.

[Degenerate39]

If someone else wants to guarentee him $ fine.

Someone in the NL Central hopefully :D

[jimbo]

It is clear tonight that Eddie simply has nothing left, and it would be kind to let him spend the rest of the year on the AAA bench. None of his pitches got over 86 tonight, and he could not locate them. I really hope Guardado retires after this year for his own sake.

Come one now, let's give the guy a little slack. This is like his spring training. He hasn't pitched in a year. There was no way he was going to be lights out right out of the chute, it's going to take some time for him to get his game back. I understand that he may never be effective again, but coming to a conclusion that he is finished given he has only been back for a few weeks is pretty unfair.

Pitch him the rest of the year and see where he is when the season is over.

[Slyder]

Come one now, let's give the guy a little slack. This is like his spring training. He hasn't pitched in a year. There was no way he was going to be lights out right out of the chute, it's going to take some time for him to get his game back. I understand that he may never be effective again, but coming to a conclusion that he is finished given he has only been back for a few weeks is pretty unfair.

Pitch him the rest of the year and see where he is when the season is over.

But how long can you expect him to keep it up? If he was even maybe 34 I'd agree with you. At 37 though your arm doesnt respond anywhere like it would a younger guy. Not to mention MOST 37 yr old guys are planning their 2nd careers.

Even if he does show the old Eddie by season's end he's 37 how much more can we really expect with his arm history and age? Were already wasting 3 mil on Mike Stanton going into next year, why use 3 mil more on anotehr likely flop?
Can the Reds afford to take that kind of bet ? The odds of Eddie being anything close to 2006 are like going to a horse race and putting their money on the 3 legged horse to win.

The Yanks might be able to sit on contracts but the Reds cant.

[jimbo]

But how long can you expect him to keep it up? If he was even maybe 34 I'd agree with you. At 37 though your arm doesnt respond anywhere like it would a younger guy. Not to mention MOST 37 yr old guys are planning their 2nd careers.


Weathers is 37, Trevor Hoffman is 39.

All I'm saying is pitch him the rest of the season and see where he goes. If he ends up resembling his old self, they can always decide to not excercise his option and try to resign him. He seems to like being a Red.

[Slyder]

Weathers is 37, Trevor Hoffman is 39.

All I'm saying is pitch him the rest of the season and see where he goes. If he ends up resembling his old self, they can always decide to not excercise his option and try to resign him. He seems to like being a Red.

Neither of them are coming off elbow reconstruction surgery. And had arm/back problems every year since going to Seattle I believe.

And I said let him know ahead of time he isnt likely to stick as a regular and would be around more as a tutor/coach and give him an invite to Spring Training but theres no way you take a 3.5 mil option on him even if he shows his 06 as a Red form. There's too many things going against Eddie.

[jimbo]

And I said let him know ahead of time he isnt likely to stick as a regular and would be around more as a tutor/coach and give him an invite to Spring Training but theres no way you take a 3.5 mil option on him even if he shows his 06 as a Red form.

I can't disagree with you there.

[Degenerate39]

From Faye


Frustrated Eddie

Eddie Guardado is frustrated. Guardado has give up seven runs on nine hits in only three innings so far.

The problem, he said, is location.

“I'm not going to blow anybody way," he said. "I'll get a strikeout here and there. If I'm going to be successful – like I have been – location is big part of it. I’m not locating the ball well.”

Guardado pointed to Prince Fielder's at-bat Saturday night. Fielder doubled to right.

“I had Fielder 0-2," Guardado said. "I throw him a slider that hangs up. I don’t give up many 0-2 hits when I’m doing good. That’s location. But I feel the ball’s coming out of my hand (well). I throw some (split-fingers) that down. I throw some that are hanging up. Those are the ones that get crushed.”

The Reds are in a tough spot. Guardado took the spot of Jon Coutlangus, who was a useful arm in the bullpen. Until he gets straightened, Guardado out is probably on mop-up duty. He understands.

"I wouldn't want to use me when we're winning," he said. "I'll find it. I've pitched too long not to find it.”

[texasdave]

The Reds are in a tough spot. Guardado took the spot of Jon Coutlangus, who was a useful arm in the bullpen. Until he gets straightened, Guardado out is probably on mop-up duty. He understands.

"I wouldn't want to use me when we're winning," he said. "I'll find it. I've pitched too long not to find it.”

Why can't he find it in Louisville, where he can pitch on a regular basis? Why drop a useful arm (Coutlangus) out of a bullpen which is starved for useful arms? :confused::confused::confused:

[AmarilloRed]

I will answer that. He is due a 3.5 million option next year, and Krivsky wants to see if he can help the Reds next year or if he should decline the option. Coutlangas is not exactly dominating Louisville, and it would be hard to bring him up now.

[Vada Pinson Fan]

Don't pick up the option BUT see if everyday Eddie will agree to a minor league contract for 2008 for less money. Guardado was paid his 2007 money for little in return.
The Reds don't have the luxury or "extra" cash to hang on to Eddie next year, however Guardado was good with the Reds before getting hurt in 2006. Time to cut bait with Eddie and think about the pitching corp in the minors. Whom to keep, to trade, to acquire.

Never again give a two year or longer contract to a 40+ year old pitcher. Take your chances, Wayne K., with a "proven", much younger arm that has major league experience instead of offering any kind of deals like you did with Rheal Cormier and Mike Stanton.
Those arms are tired and should be retired. Oh yeah, Wayne, let other GM's sign the dinosaurs. Just remember this- if the urge should strike again- "Been there, done that." Old tired arms won't work in Great American Ballpark and obviously; around the league either!

[improbus]

While he did come back quickly from his injury, pitchers don't make full recoveries for a while. So, I think it's a little unfair to judge him by this year. Do I think that 3.5m is crippling if he doesn't pitch well? Not really. I wouldn't mind seeing Eddie back.

[Blue]

no.

[GoReds33]

While he did come back quickly from his injury, pitchers don't make full recoveries for a while. So, I think it's a little unfair to judge him by this year. Do I think that 3.5m is crippling if he doesn't pitch well? Not really. I wouldn't mind seeing Eddie back.
I would like to see him back. I just think 3.5 million is too much for a guy who hasn't proven this year he can get people out. We all know that if we don't exercise the option we could get him for less, or he'd retire.:)

[Muggerd]

I would like to see him back. I just think 3.5 million is too much for a guy who hasn't proven this year he can get people out. We all know that if we don't exercise the option we could get him for less, or he'd retire.:)

My feelings exactly. I feel he can be a solid pitcher still but he is too much of a liability to take a 3.5 million dollar option on.

[ChatterRed]

Not for 3.5 million.

But decline the option and sign him to a minor league deal, would be the way to go.

[AmarilloRed]

According to John Fay,Guardado may go back on the DL."It makes no sense to keep sending him out there to be killed" .

[StrikeIndicator]

According to John Fay,Guardado may go back on the DL."It makes no sense to keep sending him out there to be killed" .

go back and look at my earlier posts.
I think we will find out either this year or maybe next, that Eddie also has a major shouder injury.

My theory last year was that he was compensating for a major shoulder problem and adjusted his mechanics wich was just enough to blow up his elbow. If he had his shoulder fixed at the same time it would have been another 6 months before he could start his throwing program.

A torn labrum will adversely affect velocity, a torn rotator cuff will effect control, Eddie seems to have a problem with both.

[Crumbley]

The guy is all heart and would be a great addition just by teaching the younger guys.

Teach them to do what exactly?

[AmarilloRed]

In any case, the Reds will not pick up that option. A minor league deal in the off-season is a possibility.

[redsfanmia]

Teach them to do what exactly?

How to get rocked.

[Degenerate39]

Sounds like Wayne might pick up the option

[AmarilloRed]

He said he would give Guardado every opportunity; nothing was said about the option.

[Degenerate39]

He said he would give Guardado every opportunity; nothing was said about the option.

I know that but I think it sounds like we'll see Eddie back here next year

[AmarilloRed]

I think Krivsky will give Guardado a chance, it remains to see what Eddie will do with it.

[StrikeIndicator]

I think Krivsky will give Guardado a chance, it remains to see what Eddie will do with it.

Not a matter of will do, he has more will power than most and a lot of determination too.

Where he is having and will continue to have a problem in in the
can do department

[AmarilloRed]

1 scoreless inning and his ERA goes down 4 1/2 runs. He still has a lot of work. He really labored that inning.

[HokieRed]

I think Rick Ankiel just answered this question. Maybe answered the question whether Pete should manage next year too.

[AmarilloRed]

Krivsky is set to give all of the bullpen innings, but still.

[Muggerd]

This thread should be locked or deleted because he shouldnt have the option picked up. I dont mind offering him a lesser contract and show what he has next spring if he cant stick somewhere else but this isnt even a debate now.

[AmarilloRed]

We would not do it, but I think Wayne has a soft spot for Guardado.

[Muggerd]

We would not do it, but I think Wayne has a soft spot for Guardado.

We would not do what?

[AmarilloRed]

Not pick up Guardado's option.

[Muggerd]

Not pick up Guardado's option.

If they pick up that option there will be a riot

[Orenda]

If they pick up that option there will be a riot

If they want to let Eddie Guardado come in as a bullpen coach, I would be all for that. But even with a lowered price tag I wouldn't want to see him pitching in the bullpen next season. Giving him a major league contract is a step-back in any attempt to compete long-term.

[Muggerd]

If they want to let Eddie Guardado come in as a bullpen coach, I would be all for that. But even with a lowered price tag I wouldn't want to see him pitching in the bullpen next season. Giving him a major league contract is a step-back in any attempt to compete long-term.

I dont mind if they offer him something in spring training just because he will be farther off the surgery. You cant really expect anyone to perform after tommy john this quickly.

[ChatterRed]

Sign him to a minor league contract and let him work his arm back into shape and get some liveliness back in his arm.

[Orenda]

If they sign him to a minor league deal and actually keep him in the minor leagues that would be ok. You know at some point in the season you will need to call up a reliever. I would rather have the likes of McBeth and Salmon over a potential 4th or 5th lefty. Also there is a tendencacy for reds minor league invites to turn into major league roster spots. And yes, Im still shocked that Krivsky didn't go with Mark Bellhorn out of spring training.

[Orenda]

You cant really expect anyone to perform after tommy john this quickly.

I never did. I also agree with this. EG has rushed/ been rushed back from this injury towards the end of his career. Why is he on the roster right now? He didn't outperform McBeth, Salmon, Guevarra, or even Pelland, who the reds had available. He has little zip on the fastball, he's getting shelled. Do we have scouts? What do they look for? Do I need to believe what is being told to me or is it ok to think Guardado is not the best the reds can do?

[scounts22]

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! Let him go!!! All he does is give up runs and blow leads. No. Absolutely not. I can't believe Pete put him in in that situation last night. I don't want to see what he has next year. I don't want to see what he has for the rest of this year! Yikes. No. I'm sorry. No.

[Muggerd]

I never did. I also agree with this. EG has rushed/ been rushed back from this injury towards the end of his career. Why is he on the roster right now? He didn't outperform McBeth, Salmon, Guevarra, or even Pelland, who the reds had available. He has little zip on the fastball, he's getting shelled. Do we have scouts? What do they look for? Do I need to believe what is being told to me or is it ok to think Guardado is not the best the reds can do?

Yea he shouldnt be taking a spot on this team right now thats for sure.

[CincinnatiKid]

I'm a huge Everyday Eddie fan, but his outing this season have made me sick, similar to the taste I get in my mouth when I see Stanton leaving the bullpen. I hope he can find his control, but after last night, I'm not sure we need him up with the Reds. Is it out of the question to send him back to AAA? Is there a waiver issue?

[AmarilloRed]

He should not be on the roster, but Krivsky has a vested interest in seeing him succeed. He will keep him in games the rest of the year hoping he will regain his command. If he has not shown improvement I would not think even Krivsky would pick up the option. A minor league deal would be a possibility next year.

[bigredmechanism]

guardado, coffee, stanton all should not only be traded/released, but castrated as well. hear me out. that way, their offspring cant try to come screw around and further dilute our pitching ranks.

our bullpen will be extremely strong next year imo. lots of young guys had to take some licks, and we had to wait for billy bray as well... its will, as it always does, come down to starting pitching.

[jimbo]

This topic certainly seemed to get quiet once Guardado started pitching better, so I thought I'd bring it up again.

Eddie has now pitched 6 straight scoreless innings, and has only given up one run over his last 8 2/3 innings. He is now consistantly reaching 90 mph on the radar gun, which is what he was throwing before the surgery. The club has a $3.5 million option on him for next season and he made a comment in today's Enquirer that he probably would like to get closer to home if the Reds do not pick up the option......meaning that renegotation less likely.

I'm still somewhat undecided, but am leaning in favor of picking up his option. I think that Eddie can not only help the team pitching, but I also like having a veteran reliever with his mentality being a part of a young bullpen. I know several here had made up their minds way back when he struggled out of the gate, some even wanted to DFA him at the time (imagine that). Just wanted to see what the consensus is now.

[WMR]

3.5 mil is WAY too much for Guardado at this point in his career, IMO.

The chances of him having any type of season next year bordering on a season that could be deemed "successful" are slim to none.

[WMR]

The most I would give him is a non-roster invitation to Spring Training.

[jimbo]

3.5 mil is WAY too much for Guardado at this point in his career, IMO.


Maybe, but only based on his questionable health. If healthy, I think he is currently showing that he can still pitch and be effective. I think his chances of being "successful" are better than "slim and none," especially when considering his mentality and approach.

[AmarilloRed]

Everyday Eddie steady: Reliever Eddie Guardado worked another scoreless inning Wednesday, giving him a six-inning, six-appearance scoreless streak. Guardado pitched the seventh inning in a 7-6 loss to Houston and allowed one hit and one walk.

In nine appearances since Aug. 22, Guardado has posted a 1.04 ERA. It's lowered his overall ERA from 22.50 to 7.82 in 14 games. The Reds hold a $3 million club option for 2008 on the left-hander, who hasn't gotten an indication yet if it will be picked up.

"They've got some tough decisions to make," said Guardado, who came back from Tommy John surgery, performed in 2006. "Hopefully I may be a part of it. If I'm not, somebody can use me. I'm not too worried about it, but you always like to finish what you've started. They brought you over here for a reason, you end up getting hurt. Nobody wants to get hurt, but it's something you have to battle through."

Guardado wasn't sure if he'd sign at a lower price if the Reds didn't pick up the option.

"I couldn't tell you that right now," Guardado said.

It is going to be a tough decision, especially since he seems to regain his command. Would you pay 3.5 million for a effective reliever? He seems to have really turned things around.

[WMR]

Over on ORG someone floated 1 million... that's the ABSOLUTE most I could see offering someone with his injury history.

[Slyder]

There's still no way I exercise the option. He has pitched better but we already have/will have about that much tied into Stanton and I dont feel its smart financially to tie that much into another 39 going on 80 yr old (arm). I would like to bring him back but I doubt with the way the market is right now we would get any sort of discount.

[Orenda]

Still not sold on Guardado. Talk about a bullpen that has the potential to go up in flames. Guardado, Coffey, Majewski, Stanton....no thanks.

[demas863]

"Reliever Eddie Guardado worked another scoreless inning Wednesday, giving him a six-inning, six-appearance scoreless streak."

If you were manager you'd comment "Good job, Eddie" on each of those six appearances. How many times can you say that for Bray, Majewski, Stanton, Coutlangus, Gosling or Coffee?

Not very often. In fact, seldom. Eddie close. Weathers and Burton in 7th and 8th - a no brainer.

Off subject. Get rid of Hume he's the common thread for the crappy bullpens over the last several years. I can still see him joking with Danny Graves several years ago as the Reds are getting hammered. Thom and Brantley out of the blue tried to boost their friend during a recent game indicating to me that there are others who just might share my sentiments. "The fish stinks from the head." Can him.

[jimbo]

If you were manager you'd comment "Good job, Eddie" on each of those six appearances. How many times can you say that for Bray, Majewski, Stanton, Coutlangus, Gosling or Coffee?

Excellent point. I still like Cout and Bray, but I don't think I've ever seen them go 6 straight near perfect appearances. I'm not ready to say I want Eddie as the closer though, I see him more now as a good set-up man. I like Burton as next year's closer.


Off subject. Get rid of Hume he's the common thread for the crappy bullpens over the last several years.

Another excellent point and I agree. I've been saying it for several years now.

[GoReds33]

Over on ORG someone floated 1 million... that's the ABSOLUTE most I could see offering someone with his injury history.Me too. One million is the ABSOLUTE maximum I would pay.:)

[Red in Atl]

I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment, but I think we need Eddie. I like the idea of Eddie and Stormy setting up Burton and/or Bray. Keep The Count, Brad Salmon and Macbeth and I don't feel nearly as bad as I did on opening day. We should be able to find one or two relievers through trade/free agent/minors. As long as the starters are Harang, Arroyo, Trade, Bailey and Belisle/Ramirez/Shern/Trade/Free Agent.

The key is getting that number 2 or 3 guy via trade. The free agent market is weak at best. I'd rather give a Maddux or Glavine a shot at a 2 year contract before anyone else on that crappy list I saw. But I don't see why either would do it, so we have to make a good trade. Then maybe Krivsky can work his Rule V magic for another reliever.

But back to Eddie, I just love his spirit, determination and drive. I don't think that is something you can teach. No winning team does it without those special veteran guys that can help coaching staff's and managers keep a team together throughout a long season. Another 3 million (considering how many crap contracts the Reds have had and wasted over the last 5-6 years or so) doesn't bother me.