Eric Show is off the hook.

[texasdave]

While attending the Craig Biggio coronation today, they listed all the players who have had more than 3000 hits. They showed Ty Cobb as having 4189 hits. I guess somewhere along the line baseball took a couple of hits away from old T.C. This means number 4192 hit against Eric Show was not really the record-breaker. I wonder who has that worthless ball. :) It seems hit number 4190 was the magic one all along. This was a first-inning single on September 8th against Reggie Patterson of the Cubs. Somehow that makes it much sweeter, that it came against the hated Cubbies. I wonder where the actual record-breaking ball (# 4190) is right now? That ball might be worth some money.

[Ludwig Reds Fan]

how can baseball take away hits like 80 years after the fact???

Is this really true?

[Boston Red]

No. Check out mlb.com. Cobb still has 4,191.

[RedLegsToday]

During the 1910 season, Ty Cobb was somehow credited twice for the same 2-3 performance in a game. If you look at baseball-reference.com, Cobb was 194-506 for a .383 average. At mlb.com he is listed as 196-509 for a .385 average. 1910 was one of the great races for the batting title. All kinds of controversy (the game being credited twice, Nap Lajoie putting down a bunch of bunt singles on the last day of the season because their opponents wanted him to beat Cobb). In the end, Cobb was declared the winner by mlb and I think mlb still lists the official record as 4191 (probably because the extra 2 hits were only discovered after Rose broke the record)

[RedLegsToday]

Here's some more info:


The race for the batting title between Ty Cobb and Lajoie in 1910 is a bit of baseball legend. The 1910 batting title was hotly contested, with a Chalmers automobile to go to the leading batter. Most of the baseball world rooted for the popular Lajoie and against the hotheaded Cobb, who had won the three previous titles. With two games left in the season, Cobb decided to bench himself to protect his lead over Lajoie; on the final day of the season, Nap needed 8 hits to win the title. In a doubleheader at St. Louis, Lajoie bunted for seven infield hits and swung for a triple.

The newspapers called them "suspect" hits - indeed, they were more than suspect. It was ultimately revealed that St. Louis' manager "Peach Pie" Jack O'Connor had ordered his third baseman to play very deep against Lajoie, encouraging the bunt. O'Connor had also bribed and bullied the official scorer, offering him a new forty-dollar suit as barter for favorable treatment. The scorer followed O'Connor's suggestion so zealously that he even gave a hit to Lajoie on an obvious throwing error from the St. Louis shortstop.

It seemed that Lajoie had the title in the bag - but it was not to be. "Fair is fair," said Hugh Fullerton, a popular and widely respected journalist, and announced the reversal of a decision he had made as the official scorer for a Tiger game earlier that season, where he had marked Cobb down as having reached on an error. Now retracting his decision, Fullerton credited Cobb with a hit - when all was said and done, the final averages were Cobb .3850687, Lajoie .3840947.

The whole episode was investigated by AL President Ban Johnson - clearing all parties, he decided that Cobb should be the batting champion. Then, as a balm and whitewash for the whole matter, he arranged with the Chalmers Motor Company for Lajoie to receive a car anyway.

Later historical research by The Sporting News revealed Lajoie's .384 average actually should have won the title. Cobb's official average of .385 was inflated because one of his games was inadvertently counted twice. In a dispute that rose to the highest baseball levels, Commissioner Bowie Kuhn ruled in 1981 that the mistake would not be corrected.

[texasdave]

I have now seen in any number of places that Ty Cobb is listed as having 4189 hits.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/H_career.shtml

http://www.deadball.com/cobb.htm

http://www.historicbaseball.com/records/3000_hits.html

http://www.hq4baseball.com/baseball_trivia_answers.htm

And there are many more. However, since MLB still recognizes 4191 hits for Ty Cobb, I guess that means Eric Show is back on the hook again.

[DntKnw]

Which scene is more memorable?

1) Sold-out Riverfront at fever pitch . . . Pete, Jr. hugging his dad . . . everyone going nuts for what seemed like an eternity . . . the place marked off where the ball landed . . . every true fan replaying the moment everytime they were at the ballpark for a decade to come; or

2) Polite applause from the dreaded Cubbie fans . . . a short celebration . . . and a subdued Wrigley Field goes on with the game . . .

I'll take #1 . . . we should thank whomever counted Cobb's game twice and thank Kuhn for not changing it (he actually did something right for the Reds).

[GoReds33]

No matter how many hits Cobb had, he was still a terrific player.

[redsfanmia]

No matter how many hits Cobb had, he was still a terrific player.

And a horrible human being.

[improbus]

No matter how many hits Cobb had, he was still a terrific player.

I always loved that he would hold his hands apart on the bat, and only during mid-swing would he move one hand or the other, either to choke up, or hold the bat at the bottom of the handle. And I also loved that he jump kicked a guy in a wheelchair for yelling at him...:(