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Big Klu
08-14-2007, 01:40 AM
50 years ago (1957), a 13-3 loss at Crosley Field vs. the Braves.

Milwaukee Braves
Red Schoendienst 2b
Frank Torre 1b
Eddie Mathews 3b
Hank Aaron cf
Wes Covington lf
Bob Hazle rf
Johnny Logan ss
Del Rice c
Bob Buhl p

Cincinnati
Alex Grammas 2b
Ed Bailey c
Frank Robinson lf
George Crowe 1b
Joe Taylor rf
Gus Bell cf
Don Hoak 3b
Roy McMillan ss
Brooks Lawrence p


WP: Bob Buhl (16-6)
LP: Brooks Lawrence (11-10)
Sv: Don McMahon (6)
HR: MIL - Johnny Logan (10), Wes Covington (14). CIN - Joe Taylor (1), Gus Bell (13), George Crowe (28).

The Braves scored 8 runs in the 9th inning off Reds relievers Johnny Klippstein and Tom Acker.

Big Klu
08-14-2007, 01:50 AM
45 years ago (1962), a 5-4 loss at Crosley Field vs. the Braves.

Milwaukee Braves
Roy McMillan ss
Gus Bell lf
Eddie Mathews 3b
Hank Aaron rf
Lee Maye cf
Tommie Aaron 1b
Joe Torre c
Frank Bolling 2b
Tony Cloninger p

Cincinnati
Eddie Kasko 3b
Don Blasingame 2b
Jerry Lynch lf
Frank Robinson rf
Gordy Coleman 1b
Vada Pinson cf
Leo Cardenas ss
Hank Foiles c
Johnny Klippstein p


WP: Tony Cloninger (4-2)
LP: Johnny Klippstein (4-3)
Sv: Claude Raymond (7)
HR: MIL - Tommie Aaron (5), Hank Aaron (31). CIN - Gordy Coleman (25), Hank Foiles (6).

KronoRed
08-14-2007, 01:50 AM
The Braves scored 8 runs in the 9th inning off Reds relievers Johnny Klippstein and Tom Acker.

Reds tradition :D

Big Klu
08-14-2007, 02:01 AM
40 years ago (1967), a 4-3 loss at Forbes Field in Pittsburgh.

Cincinnati
Tommy Harper rf
Vada Pinson cf
Pete Rose lf
Lee May 1b
Tony Perez 3b
Tommy Helms ss
Don Pavletich c
Chico Ruiz 2b
Gary Nolan p

Pittsburgh
Maury Wills 3b
Matty Alou cf
Al Luplow rf
Willie Stargell lf
Bill Mazeroski 2b
Donn Clendenon 1b
Andre Rodgers ss
Jerry May c
Bob Veale p


WP: Bob Veale (13-5)
LP: Gary Nolan (9-6)
Sv: Elroy Face (14)
HR: None.

Bob Veale and Elroy Face combined on a three-hitter for the Pirates. The only Reds hits were a pair of singles by Vada Pinson, and an RBI single by Lee May.

Big Klu
08-14-2007, 02:08 AM
35 years ago (1972), a 12-2 win at Atlanta Stadium.

Cincinnati
Pete Rose lf
Joe Morgan 2b
Bobby Tolan cf
Johnny Bench rf
Tony Perez 1b
Denis Menke 3b
Dave Concepcion ss
Bill Plummer c
Jack Billingham p

Atlanta
Oscar Brown lf
Darrell Evans 3b
Hank Aaron 1b
Earl Williams c
Dusty Baker cf
Mike Lum rf
Felix Millan 2b
Marty Perez ss
George Stone p


WP: Jack Billingham (8-10)
LP: George Stone (4-9)
HR: CIN - Johnny Bench (26). ATL - Dusty Baker (8).

Big Klu
08-14-2007, 02:17 AM
30 years ago (1977), the Reds split a doubleheader at Candlestick Park in San Francisco--losing the opener 6-1, and winning the nightcap 9-3.

First Game
Cincinnati
Pete Rose 3b
Dave Concepcion ss
Johnny Bench c
George Foster cf
Bob Bailey 1b
Ray Knight lf
Ed Armbrister rf
Rick Auerbach 2b
Doug Capilla p

San Francisco
Derrel Thomas cf
Rob Andrews 2b
Bill Madlock 3b
Jack Clark rf
Willie McCovey 1b
Randy Elliott lf
Tim Foli ss
Gary Alexander c
Bob Knepper p


WP: Bob Knepper (6-6)
LP: Doug Capilla (4-5)
HR: SF - Willie McCovey (21), Darrell Evans (11).



Second Game
Cincinnati
Pete Rose 3b
Joe Morgan 2b
Ken Griffey rf
Dan Driessen 1b
Mike Lum lf
Cesar Geronimo cf
Dave Concepcion ss
Bill Plummer c
Fred Norman p

San Francisco
Derrel Thomas cf
Rob Andrews 2b
Bill Madlock 3b
Jack Clark rf
Gary Thomasson 1b
Randy Elliott lf
Marc Hill c
Johnnie LeMaster ss
Charlie Williams p


WP: Fred Norman (10-10)
LP: Charlie Williams (4-4)
HR: CIN - Joe Morgan 2 (18), Cesar Geronimo (8).

Big Klu
08-14-2007, 02:30 AM
25 years ago (1982), a 2-0 loss at Riverfront Stadium vs. the Astros.

Houston
Dickie Thon ss
Terry Puhl rf
Ray Knight 1b
Phil Garner 2b
Jose Cruz lf
Alan Ashby c
Art Howe 3b
Tony Scott cf
Bob Knepper p

Cincinnati
Tom Lawless 2b
Paul Householder rf
Dave Concepcion ss
Johnny Bench 3b
Cesar Cedeño cf
Mike Vail lf
Dan Driessen 1b
Alex Treviño c
Bruce Berenyi p


WP: Bob Knepper (5-12)
LP: Bruce Berenyi (8-12)
Sv: Randy Moffitt (3)
HR: None.

Dan Driessen hitting 7th? With Alex Treviño hitting behind him?

Big Klu
08-14-2007, 02:47 AM
20 years ago (1987), the Reds split a doubleheader at Jack Murphy Stadium in San Diego--winning the opener 2-0, and losing the nightcap 15-8.

First Game
Cincinnati
Kurt Stillwell 2b
Buddy Bell 3b
Eric Davis cf
Kal Daniels lf
Dave Parker rf
Bo Diaz c
Nick Esasky 1b
Barry Larkin ss
Ted Power p

San Diego
Stan Jefferson cf
Tony Gwynn rf
Carmelo Martinez lf
John Kruk 1b
Benito Santiago c
Chris Brown 3b
Garry Templeton ss
Tim Flannery 2b
Eric Show p


WP: Ted Power (9-7)
LP: Eric Show (6-14)
Sv: John Franco (22)
HR: None.



Second Game
Cincinnati
Kurt Stillwell 2b
Buddy Bell 3b
Eric Davis cf
Kal Daniels lf
Dave Parker rf
Bo Diaz c
Nick Esasky 1b
Dave Concepcion ss
Guy Hoffman p

San Diego
Stan Jefferson lf
Tony Gwynn rf
Randy Ready 2b
John Kruk 1b
Chris Brown 3b
Shane Mack cf
Luis Salazar ss
Bruce Bochy c
Jimmy Jones p


WP: Greg Booker (1-1)
LP: Guy Hoffman (8-8)
HR: CIN - Nick Esasky (14), Buddy Bell (9), Kal Daniels (19). SD - Shane Mack (4), Benito Santiago (11).

Big Klu
08-14-2007, 02:55 AM
15 years ago (1992), a 5-1 loss at Riverfront vs. the Padres.

San Diego
Tony Fernandez ss
Tony Gwynn rf
Gary Sheffield 3b
Fred McGriff 1b
Darrin Jackson cf
Benito Santiago c
Tim Teufel 2b
Kevin Ward lf
Jim Deshaies p

Cincinnati
Bip Roberts lf
Reggie Sanders cf
Barry Larkin ss
Chris Sabo 3b
Darnell Coles 1b
Glenn Braggs rf
Joe Oliver c
Freddie Benavides 2b
Chris Hammond p


WP: Jim Deshaies (3-2)
LP: Chris Hammond (6-7)
HR: SD - Gary Sheffield (25).

Big Klu
08-14-2007, 03:05 AM
10 years ago (1997), a 5-4 10-inning loss at Qualcomm (Jack Murphy) Stadium in San Diego.

Cincinnati
Deion Sanders cf
Pokey Reese ss
Chris Stynes lf
Eduardo Perez 1b
Willie Greene 3b
Joe Oliver c
Jon Nunnally rf
Bret Boone 2b
Gabe White p

San Diego
Craig Shipley 2b
Chris Gomez ss
Tony Gwynn rf
Ken Caminiti 3b
Greg Vaughn lf
Chris Jones cf
Archi Cianfrocco 1b
John Flaherty c
Andy Ashby p


WP: Trevor Hoffman (5-4)
LP: Jeff Shaw (3-2)
HR: CIN - Eduardo Perez (11), Jon Nunnally (3). SD - Greg Vaughn (13).

Big Klu
08-14-2007, 03:14 AM
Five years ago (2002), a 7-2 loss at Riverfront vs. the Diamondbacks.

Arizona
Tony Womack ss
David Dellucci lf
Junior Spivey 2b
Matt Williams 3b
Erubiel Durazo 1b
Steve Finley cf
Quinton McCracken rf
Chad Moeller c
Brian Anderson p

Cincinnati
Todd Walker 2b
Aaron Boone 3b
Ken Griffey Jr. cf
Adam Dunn lf
Austin Kearns rf
Sean Casey 1b
Barry Larkin ss
Jason LaRue c
Jared Fernandez p


WP: Brian Anderson (6-8)
LP: John Riedling (1-2)
HR: ARI - Steve Finley (18), Jay Bell (2).

cumberlandreds
08-14-2007, 09:01 AM
25 years ago (1982), a 2-0 loss at Riverfront Stadium vs. the Astros.

Houston
Dickie Thon ss
Terry Puhl rf
Ray Knight 1b
Phil Garner 2b
Jose Cruz lf
Alan Ashby c
Art Howe 3b
Tony Scott cf
Bob Knepper p

Cincinnati
Tom Lawless 2b
Paul Householder rf
Dave Concepcion ss
Johnny Bench 3b
Cesar Cedeņo cf
Mike Vail lf
Dan Driessen 1b
Alex Treviņo c
Bruce Berenyi p


WP: Bob Knepper (5-12)
LP: Bruce Berenyi (8-12)
Sv: Randy Moffitt (3)
HR: None.

Dan Driessen hitting 7th? With Alex Treviņo hitting behind him?

Mike Vail gotta have some protection, you know. ;)

Big Klu
08-14-2007, 09:40 AM
Mike Vail gotta have some protection, you know. ;)

I understand that Driessen may have had a little more trouble with a lefty like Knepper, and the previous two seasons I wouldn't have had a problem with him hitting 7th--what with right-handed hitters like George Foster, Johnny Bench, and Ray Knight in the lineup. But in 1982 Dan Driessen was without a doubt the best offensive player on the team. For him to hit 7th while Paul Householder is in the #2 spot with his .211 AVG and .591 OPS makes no sense at all!

NJReds
08-14-2007, 09:44 AM
Mike Vail gotta have some protection, you know. ;)

Davey batting third? How on earth did they hold that team scoreless? ;)

Roy Tucker
08-14-2007, 10:14 AM
You think this year is bad, 1982 was the absolute pits as a Reds fan. The team started bad, was bad in mid-season, and finished bad.

If it wasn't for Mario Soto, this team would have challenged the 1962 Mets for all-time bad. Actually, that '82 team had pretty good pitching. But they couldn't score to save their lives and had zero power. And I picked the early 80's to have season tickets and see almost every stinking game.

And for a plug for this week's ATP tennis here in Mason, the save went to Randy Moffitt, Billie Jean King's brother.

George Anderson
08-14-2007, 11:05 AM
You think this year is bad, 1982 was the absolute pits as a Reds fan. The team started bad, was bad in mid-season, and finished bad.

.

What made it worse was the Reds were the best team in baseball the year before in 1981. So in the span of one season they went from the best to the worst.

I was like 13 at the time and bought into the nonsense the Reds put out that Clint Hurdle, Paul Householder, Cesar Cedeno, Alex Trevino would more than adequately replace Ray Knight, George Foster, Dave Collins and Ken Griffey. I think the whole 1982 season was as much of a shock as a dissapointment to me.

cumberlandreds
08-14-2007, 01:00 PM
What made it worse was the Reds were the best team in baseball the year before in 1981. So in the span of one season they went from the best to the worst.

I was like 13 at the time and bought into the nonsense the Reds put out that Clint Hurdle, Paul Householder, Cesar Cedeno, Alex Trevino would more than adequately replace Ray Knight, George Foster, Dave Collins and Ken Griffey. I think the whole 1982 season was as much of a shock as a dissapointment to me.


Actually the Twins lost one more game than the Reds but I know what you mean. 1982 was a complete shock! Especially for a young fan like myself who gone through all the glory years of the Big Red Machine. I hadn't seen a Reds as bad as this one and still haven't. For people who complain about this years team being the worst they should have lived through 1982. A nightmare season for sure.

Big Klu
08-14-2007, 04:00 PM
What made it worse was the Reds were the best team in baseball the year before in 1981. So in the span of one season they went from the best to the worst.

I was like 13 at the time and bought into the nonsense the Reds put out that Clint Hurdle, Paul Householder, Cesar Cedeno, Alex Trevino would more than adequately replace Ray Knight, George Foster, Dave Collins and Ken Griffey. I think the whole 1982 season was as much of a shock as a dissapointment to me.

I was 12 when the disastrous 1982 season took place, and I bought into some of the propaganda that the new players could replace the old ones, but not all of it.

1) Dave Collins left as a free agent, and signed with the Yankees. I didn't like it, but Pete Rose leaving for the Phillies had taught me that sometimes this happens in baseball.

2) George Foster was traded to the Mets for RHPs Jim Kern and Greg Harris, and C Alex Treviño. I didn't like this trade, and I still don't, but it wasn't quite as bad as I thought at the time. Who knew that 1981 would be George Foster's last year as an elite offensive force in the NL? It turns out that Dick Wagner sold Foster's stock at its highest--he just didn't get much in return. (Sound familiar?) I knew that Johnny Bench's ankle injury would prevent him from being a regular catcher in the future, and the Reds would have to acquire some catching help. But why they thought Treviño would be a regular catcher was beyond me. Even at 12 years old, I realized that Alex Treviño had never been anything other than a backup catcher, and likely would never be anything more than a backup catcher. As for the two pitchers--color me nonplussed.

3) Ken Griffey was traded to the Yankees for minor-league pitchers Brian Ryder and Freddie Tolliver. This one still has me scratching my head. Griffey was still a dangerous offensive player who had the ability to hit for average, good speed, and extra-base power. (His power, an "old player's skill", actually increased during the 80's.) Griffey could have been the offensive centerpiece of the 1982 Reds--hitting in the middle of the order (likely #3). Yet he was traded to the Yankees for two minor-leaguers--neither of whom amounted to anything for the Reds.

4) As a result of gutting the outfield (all three starting outfielders from 1981 were gone), Dick Wagner realized that he had to bolster the OF, so 3B Ray Knight was traded to the Astros for oft-injured CF Cesar Cedeño. This supposedly filled the hole in CF, and also opened up 3B for Johnny Bench, who had become a man without a position. I bought into this move at the time--the Reds needed outfielders, since Foster, Griffey, and Collins were gone, and the Reds needed to find a place for Johnny Bench to play. Since then, however, I have thought that this was the move that really hurt Bench and the Reds. It was painfully obvious that Bench was inadequate as a 3B. In retrospect, I think the Reds had at least two or three better options that were better than trading Knight for Cedeño:


a) Trade Dan Driessen to the Astros for Cedeño. This would have opened up 1B for Bench (a position he could have handled more easily). Also, it would have worked for the Astros, as they were evidently looking for a 1B, anyway. (They moved Knight to 1B when they acquired him.)

b) Keep both Knight and Driessen, and move Bench to LF. I'm sure that Johnny Bench would be no worse defensively in LF than George Foster, Kal Daniels, or Adam Dunn. (And JB would likely be better than some!)

c) Keep both Knight and Driessen, move Driessen to LF, and move Bench to 1B. If Bench's ankle can't handle LF, then move Driessen there, and play Bench at 1B.

5) To fill out the OF, Paul Householder--the Reds' minor-league Golden Child--was penciled in at RF, while Clint Hurdle--Kansas City's minor-league Golden Child--was acquired from the Royals for minor-league pitcher Scott Brown and penciled in at LF. As it turned out, both of these players were colossal flops. (Hurdle more so than Householder--at least Paul made it through the entire season with the Reds.) On the other hand, lightly-regarded 26-year-old rookie OF Eddie Milner turned out to be better than either of them. (Norris Hopper, anyone?) Veteran OF's Larry Biittner and Mike Vail provided bench strength, but as a platoon they would have been more productive than either Householder or Hurdle, as well. (Especially Biittner, who--though he had limited playing time--was probably the most productive hitter on the team that year, after Driessen and maybe Cedeño.)

In summary, the 1982 Reds would have been much better offensively (IMO) if they had:

1) Kept Ken Griffey.
2) Made Eddie Milner a starter in the OF from Day 1.
3) Kept Ray Knight. Either traded Dan Driessen to Houston for Cesar Cedeño, or kept Driessen and moved Bench to LF.


Potential lineups (the first lineup is if the Driessen/Cedeño trade is made; the second lineup is if it isn't):

1)
Eddie Milner lf
Dave Concepcion ss
Ken Griffey rf
Johnny Bench 1b
Cesar Cedeño cf
Ray Knight 3b
Ron Oester 2b
Alex Treviño c
<pitcher>



2)
Eddie Milner cf
Dave Concepcion ss
Ken Griffey rf
Johnny Bench lf/1b
Dan Driessen 1b/lf
Ray Knight 3b
Ron Oester 2b
Alex Trevi&#241;o c
<pitcher>