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View Full Version : Anyone else excited about Maloney?



Hoosier Red
08-18-2007, 02:19 PM
7 innings 1 run yesterday.
He is 2-2 since coming over with a 0.71 whip, 2.38 ERA, and a 39-3 K/bb ratio.

What's not to like?

Or is this all just batter's unfamiliarity with him?

Prf15
08-18-2007, 02:39 PM
My one concern with Maloney is he gives up way to many homeruns.

I love this though......
10 K's
9 K's
9 K's
11 K's

Great pickup by Wayne!:beerme:

SMcGavin
08-18-2007, 02:48 PM
Yea, I guess a K:BB ratio of 11 is pretty good...

I'm very excited about the kid but I have heard he's the type who may have trouble as he moves up (four solid pitches with control, but no out pitch). Let's let him and Cueto carry the Lookouts to the playoffs, then start them off in AAA next season.

11larkin11
08-18-2007, 02:53 PM
With Maloney, the Phillies had him as their next guy to start for the Major Leagues if one of their starters went down.

camisadelgolf
08-18-2007, 03:47 PM
Krivsky robbed Philadelphia. I'll renege my statement if Maloney never makes it to the Majors, but as far as I'm concerned, you can pretty much mark him up as a slight upgrade over Bobby Livingston. If the Reds have Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Cueto, and Maloney in 2009, maybe the Reds can convert Livingston to a utility player.:D

fearofpopvol1
08-18-2007, 03:47 PM
I like more than anything else that he's a lefty. We are seriously lacking left-handed pitching in our farm system. I think he's going to be another Livingston type. A guy that lives off of control and if he has it, he'll be great and if he doesn't, it could be bad. Though he does seem to have more pitches than Livingston so that is a plus.

Aronchis
08-18-2007, 04:21 PM
Maloney's k/9 will probably be the key. Sowers fell into the sea after his promotion to AAA(unless a degenerative injury is the cause). If he can hold it above 8 for 100 innings, that may be a good sign.

Degenerate39
08-18-2007, 04:25 PM
I'm pretty excited those strikeouts get me pumped. But he's either going to be a 5th starter or in the pen by the time he gets called up.

Harang
Arroyo
Bailey
Cueto
And a list of candidates that include: Belisle, Dumatrait, Livingston, Maloney, and Rameriez

dougdirt
08-18-2007, 05:47 PM
Im not overly excited about him. Honestly the only thing he has going for him is that he throws left handed. He doesn't throw hard enough and he has no out pitch that will translate to the majors. I fully expect a Sowers esque drop off in his K rate when he gets to AAA. Hope I am wrong, but I wouldnt put him in the top 15 Reds prospects.

mth123
08-18-2007, 06:37 PM
Im not overly excited about him. Honestly the only thing he has going for him is that he throws left handed. He doesn't throw hard enough and he has no out pitch that will translate to the majors. I fully expect a Sowers esque drop off in his K rate when he gets to AAA. Hope I am wrong, but I wouldnt put him in the top 15 Reds prospects.

I like him, but I'm not sure he isn't fools gold. I think he's a guy to pump up and use in a trade package for an established guy. The Reds need to get a solid starter who has a recent history of major league success and they need to try and find a way to get one without giving up Cueto or Bailey in the process. Maloney and some other stuff could be the ticket. A fly ball park would suit him well. I do like 6-4 220 and the fact that he threw 168 Innings in 2006 and already 146+ this year. He is a starter in the system that actually seems capable of and ready for handling the load.

I also hesitate to say this, but he looks very similar to some one else. Pretty good in many ways (Ks, Walks, BA Against, Low WHIP, etc.) offset by those HR and Fly Ball tendancies. This 6-4 220 pound LH is similar to another LH who was 6-3 220 Pounds that the Reds acquired after a stint in Philly. Maloney didn't cost 3 years at $25.5 Million, but his profile is very similar to Eric Milton's (I don't think he throws as hard as a young Milton did). I guess if the Reds could get a 1999ish Milton type season from Maloney for cheap that wouldn't be so bad, but I'm skeptical of Maloney at GABP.

AmarilloRed
08-18-2007, 06:49 PM
He has done very well at AA, but he gives up too many home runs. This will be acceptable at GABP if he is able to keep runners off base. I will watch him closely at AAA next year.

dougdirt
08-18-2007, 08:13 PM
He surely doesn't throw as hard as a young Milton, who was throwing 94 in his prime.

SMcGavin
08-19-2007, 04:41 AM
Im not overly excited about him. Honestly the only thing he has going for him is that he throws left handed. He doesn't throw hard enough and he has no out pitch that will translate to the majors. I fully expect a Sowers esque drop off in his K rate when he gets to AAA. Hope I am wrong, but I wouldnt put him in the top 15 Reds prospects.

I've heard a lot of Sowers comparisons, but Maloney has a better K rate at both A and AA than Sowers did. He is no sure thing by any means but I'd certainly put him in the top 15 prospects in the organization. When you post a K/9 over 9 at every level you've ever been at, you deserve that.

camisadelgolf
08-19-2007, 05:33 AM
I believe Matt Maloney has a better K/9IP than even Johnny Cueto. I'm sure Maloney's Ks will come down as he advances, but I think his K/9IP rate will be twice as high as Sowers's anemic 3.2 MLB.

dougdirt
08-19-2007, 12:28 PM
I believe Matt Maloney has a better K/9IP than even Johnny Cueto. I'm sure Maloney's Ks will come down as he advances, but I think his K/9IP rate will be twice as high as Sowers's anemic 3.2 MLB.

I hate to say it, but I will believe it when I see it. I just don't think you can strike out that many batters with no real out pitch in the majors and you can't break 88.

Prf15
08-19-2007, 03:31 PM
Don't need to throw hard, if I remember Greg Maddux doesn't blow people away. He just has very good control. You can throw 100 mph in the majors but if you can't locate it you will struggle.

I am interested to see if his K rate keeps up in AAA, if it does then I think we got a good prospect for Lohse but if it does drop like Sowers did then he may struggle.

camisadelgolf
08-19-2007, 04:01 PM
Greg Maddux has/had an out pitch, though.

Blue
08-19-2007, 04:05 PM
Has anyone seen this guy pitch or are we going off of old scouting reports?

dougdirt
08-19-2007, 05:50 PM
Don't need to throw hard, if I remember Greg Maddux doesn't blow people away. He just has very good control. You can throw 100 mph in the majors but if you can't locate it you will struggle.

I am interested to see if his K rate keeps up in AAA, if it does then I think we got a good prospect for Lohse but if it does drop like Sowers did then he may struggle.

Greg Maddux also threw 95 MPH in his prime from time to time. People tend to forget that.

Benihana
08-19-2007, 06:30 PM
Greg Maddux also threw 95 MPH in his prime from time to time. People tend to forget that.

You sure about that?

camisadelgolf
08-19-2007, 06:43 PM
I remember him getting up to 92-94 MPH fairly consistently for a while.

TOBTTReds
08-19-2007, 07:13 PM
Maddux is also one of the greatest control pitchers of ALL-TIME.

dougdirt
08-19-2007, 09:53 PM
You sure about that?

He didnt sit there, but he could hit it when he really needed it. Think Aaron Harang. He sits 89-92, but rears back and hits 94 when he really needs to. Of course, he also had ridiculous movement and stuff too.

HokieRed
08-20-2007, 09:48 AM
No matter how hard Maddux was able to throw--and he did sometimes touch 95, as I remember--his bread and butter was not just control but movement on his fastball. Control plus movement has been Maddux's secret. Doug, I'm wondering why Maloney's been judged to be without an outpitch--is that from a scout's report? Because the only reliable measure of outpitch I know of is K's and he does seem to have the ability to put up good K numbers. A fastball can be an outpitch--as it is in Maddux's case--if it has enough movement.

dougdirt
08-20-2007, 12:14 PM
No matter how hard Maddux was able to throw--and he did sometimes touch 95, as I remember--his bread and butter was not just control but movement on his fastball. Control plus movement has been Maddux's secret. Doug, I'm wondering why Maloney's been judged to be without an outpitch--is that from a scout's report? Because the only reliable measure of outpitch I know of is K's and he does seem to have the ability to put up good K numbers. A fastball can be an outpitch--as it is in Maddux's case--if it has enough movement.

Yes, his scouting reports all say that he has 4 pitches that he controls, but they are all average pitches. I think that will really catch up with him when he gets to face real professional hitters.

Betterread
08-20-2007, 07:14 PM
Yes, his scouting reports all say that he has 4 pitches that he controls, but they are all average pitches. I think that will really catch up with him when he gets to face real professional hitters.

I've heard his fastball described as a quality sinker (not sure where that fits on the scouting scale - but the clear scouting consensus is that his fastball possesses that highly desired "late movement") and his curve, slider and changeup all described as above average. His weakness is that none are considered an out-pitch, his strength is that he has four above average pitches.
I agree with you that a pitcher needs a out-pitch to be a quality ML contributor, but it is also conceivable think that the Reds developmental staff could work with one of Maloney's 4 good pitches and work it into that out pitch.

dougdirt
08-20-2007, 07:19 PM
I've heard his fastball described as a quality sinker (not sure where that fits on the scouting scale - but the clear scouting consensus is that his fastball possesses that highly desired "late movement") and his curve, slider and changeup all described as above average. His weakness is that none are considered an out-pitch, his strength is that he has four above average pitches.
I agree with you that a pitcher needs a out-pitch to be a quality ML contributor, but it is also conceivable think that the Reds developmental staff could work with one of Maloney's 4 good pitches and work it into that out pitch.

His fastball has late movement. The problem is it tops out at 88 MPH and is usually slower than that. It better move like a knuckleball if its going that slow.

LoganBuck
08-21-2007, 01:42 AM
How does he do it then? Deception?

fearofpopvol1
08-21-2007, 02:17 AM
How does he do it then? Deception?

Probably some deception, but I think what most were saying is the fact that he is facing AA hitters.

Though he is definitely been pretty dominating in AA. I've gotta believe he has a pretty good shot of being a back of the rotation guy in the majors if he continues to mature.

Degenerate39
08-21-2007, 02:22 AM
How does he do it then? Deception?

Jedi Mind Tricks

reds44
08-21-2007, 02:31 AM
How does he do it then? Deception?
Normally minor league pitchers don't have near as good of an eye as major league hitters too. The further down you go, the the less polished the hitters are. When you get a pitcher like Maloney, alot of time he is nearly fully developed and he's just not going to improve much. He can locate his stuff so well and put the ball in the places he wants them to go. Thus, he gets alot of Ks from just making his pitch. When you advance through the ranks, it becomes more and more difficult to strike people out, thus you see the declining K rate. Now Maloney may have some really good off speed stuff, but if you don't have a fastball to keep people honest it won't do you any good. Stanton still has the great curve, but has nothing to set it up with.

What makes guys like Cueto and Bailey the elite prospects, is because they still have plenty of room to grow. They have all the stuff to get the job down, but the command and control is still coming. Maloney and Cueto both have great K rates, but Cueto has the stuff to translate his K rate to AAA and eventually MLB once he harnasses it better. Maloney, on the other hand, has less room for improvement.

osuceltic
08-21-2007, 10:41 AM
Maloney reminds me of a left-handed Harang. Big guys, neither of whom was considered a fireballer as a youngster. Both guys were considered middling prospects, but just kept getting better and better. Billy Beane looked at Harang that way, but he misjudged his potential.

It's not just about how hard a guy throws. Maddux himself says the three key elements are location, movement and velocity -- in that order. I'd throw in the significance of a deceptive delivery. That's really what sets Harang apart. He doesn't have exceptional stuff, but his delivery makes it hard for batters to pick up the ball. That smooth, repeatable delivery makes that 91 mph fastball seem a lot quicker than it is.

Those are the things we don't really know about Maloney yet.

dougdirt
08-21-2007, 10:46 AM
The other thing that makes Harangs fastball seem faster is his release point is a lot closer to the plate than most pitchers because of how tall he is. He is throwing the ball a shorter distance than most pitchers. I also would argue that Harang has real good stuff. His fastball is above average. His slider is nasty. Both of which are out pitches in the major leagues.

bucksfan2
08-21-2007, 11:15 AM
The other thing that makes Harangs fastball seem faster is his release point is a lot closer to the plate than most pitchers because of how tall he is. He is throwing the ball a shorter distance than most pitchers. I also would argue that Harang has real good stuff. His fastball is above average. His slider is nasty. Both of which are out pitches in the major leagues.

Doug that could be key for a guy like Maloney. Harang has a very big stride which does put his release point closer to home. This added stride makes a 91-92 mph fastball look quite a bit faster. If a guy like Maloney has a longer stride his soft tossing fastball will actually be faster.

Muggerd
08-21-2007, 11:47 AM
Excited: No
Impressed: Yes

reds44
08-21-2007, 05:19 PM
The other thing that makes Harangs fastball seem faster is his release point is a lot closer to the plate than most pitchers because of how tall he is. He is throwing the ball a shorter distance than most pitchers. I also would argue that Harang has real good stuff. His fastball is above average. His slider is nasty. Both of which are out pitches in the major leagues.
Harang really doesn't even take full advantage of his height either because he has such a short stride to the plate.

RedsManRick
08-21-2007, 05:32 PM
The announcers were commenting last night that there tends to be a bit of a wider strike zone in the minors as well. So you're getting outside strikes called that you won't get in the majors and you're getting guys who aren't as good hitters to swing at bad pitches. It's a recipe for a guy to strike out a fair amount of guys in the minors by nibbling, and then get killed in the majors when he "loses command" and then gets killed when he bring his mediocre stuff in to the zone.

HokieRed
08-22-2007, 10:49 AM
Maloney: cautiously optimistic. Command of four pitches--if he really has that--is very impressive; not enough variation in speeds is not. As to strike zones, I'd suggest they vary more by individual umpire than by major-minor. I've seen some awfully small strike zones called in minor league games. The real worry for me on Maloney is lack of difference between the fastball and other pitches: major league hitters will just sit on the breaking stuff and catch up to any misplaced fastball. Also on Harang: I've heard this numerous times that he was not thought of highly as a prospect. That certainly was not the buzz in Oakland when he came up.

camisadelgolf
08-22-2007, 02:24 PM
Aaron Harang was considered to have kind of a #4 or #5 starter as a ceiling.

Prf15
08-22-2007, 02:36 PM
Aaron Harang was considered to have kind of a #4 or #5 starter as a ceiling.

Keith Law still says he does.....:thumbdown