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View Full Version : Votto Deserves Call...



RedLegSuperStar
08-20-2007, 10:40 AM
Yes I know.. we have all discussed this in some thread or another. Has anyone seen what he's done in August?

August:

.313 7 HR's (6 in his last 7 games) 23 RBI's (20 in his last 10 games) 13 Runs (11 in last 10 games) .351 OBP .672 SLG 1.023 OPS

Votto is most likely going to be in the running for MVP as well as he should. He was selected to the Futures Game and AAA All-Star Game this season. I believe it is time to get a look at this young slugging 1st baseman now rather than in September. The more time you have to evaluate him at the big league level the better so you know what step to take in the offseason. Reds are heading home for a series against Atlanta a team that is offensively stacked. We face a rotation of Hudson (14-5 3.02), James (9-9 4.22), Cormier (0-3 9.90), Carlyle (7-5 4.66). When you go up against a team with offense and pitching.. why not have some fire power of your own and make things interesting. Especially in front of your home town crowd. The Reds are not winning the Division.. which would be easier then winning the Wild Card so why not sell some tickets by bringing up a much touted prospect.

I know some of you are thinking.. well wear will he play with Hatteberg and Conine still platooning 1st base. Conine has cleared waivers and could be dealt anytime.. if it doesn't happen then DFA Mark Bellhorn and call up Joey Votto. If Conine is dealt then Votto takes over the starting roll of 1st. If they are not able to deal Conine then Conine moves to the bench and getting some time at 1st/OF. Hatteberg becomes the back up to Votto who still would start at 1st upon the call up. Hopper will fill in at 2nd if needed.

All in all.. what does Votto have to prove in AAA (.303 21 HR 87 RBI .391 OBP .495 SLG .887 OPS)?

cumberlandreds
08-20-2007, 10:55 AM
IMO, he should have been brought up in July. He hasn't had anything to prove in AAA since then if not longer back than that. The Reds need to see if he can cut it at the MLB level so as to see if he is to be counted on next season.

RedsManRick
08-20-2007, 11:05 AM
I don't see much of a point to bring him up with Hatteberg still around, unless you are going to bench Hat. If he's going to play everybody, then by all means. But bringing him up before the minor league season ends just to get him 4-5 AB a week is counter productive. Having him start against lefties, in Conine's place, would be pretty stupid too.

Bring him up for his September cup of coffee and trade Hatteberg over the winter to clear room.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 11:15 AM
Bring him up for his September cup of coffee and trade Hatteberg over the winter to clear room.Hatty will be a free agent if the Reds don't pick up his option. Hatty has only minimal trade value anyway.

oneupper
08-20-2007, 11:18 AM
Hatty will be a free agent if the Reds don't pick up his option. Hatty has only minimal trade value anyway.

Hat's option is only $1.85 mm. Cheap if you ask me. REDS will pick it up and THEN perhaps try to trade him. That could get tricky.

Reds1
08-20-2007, 11:31 AM
He'll be up in Sept. We aren't out of it yet and Hate has been playing so well.

Kc61
08-20-2007, 11:38 AM
Votto is only 23. I'd let him finish the AAA season and give him a September call up. Everybody has wanted to cut short his AAA year, but I see a lot of progress. He has started to hit for more power now and is obviously more comfortable with pitching at that level. He has also learned to play another position which helps with flexibility. I think it has made good sense for him to be at Louisville this year.

I don't know how he fits in next year. Depends on Dunn and Hatteberg, are they around in 2008, and if so what is Hatte's role. But there's no need to bring him up right now, unless an injury opens up playing time.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 11:40 AM
We aren't out of it yetthanks Lloyd

BRM
08-20-2007, 11:50 AM
C'mon flyer. You know all the Reds need is a 12 game winning streak and they will be right in the thick of things.

Cedric
08-20-2007, 11:51 AM
There are some icons I could do away with. Or maybe just the people using them.

On the Votto point. I think it's almost a given that he will be brought up in September and given a shot. He's done nothing but impress.

RedLegSuperStar
08-20-2007, 11:52 AM
He'll be up in Sept. We aren't out of it yet and Hate has been playing so well.

We are not out of it? So right their you are saying Votto can't help us win now but rather in 17 games (Basing call-ups are going to be on September 6th the Reds first off day after the Bats season) when the Reds might be out of it? What if when the Bats season ends and the Reds are instead of 9.5 games out of it they are 6 games out of it? Do the Reds make any call ups?

The thing is with Conine and Hatteberg both taking up time at first we think Votto can't get the at bats. Both Conine and Hatteberg don't have the power of Votto and with this team power outweighs pitching. Votto can play 1st and somewhat of LF. Conine can play 1st and RF/LF. Hatteberg would be a primary 1st baseman but at a limited roll. You want to give at bats to Conine who won't be here next season? Hatteberg has done great.. but I think he would gladly move over to let Votto grow.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 11:53 AM
C'mon flyer. You know all the Reds need is a 12 game winning streak and they will be right in the thick of things.... and Votto would be a likely asset in pulling off the most improbable run to the playoffs in baseball history. :jump:

BRM
08-20-2007, 11:53 AM
On the Votto point. I think it's almost a given that he will be brought up in September and given a shot. He's done nothing but impress.

I'd like to agree with you here but I'm not sure I see it. If the Reds really feel they are "in it", Votto doesn't get a real shot in September. He may get called up to bolster the bench but he won't get much more than the occasional pinch-hitting appearance.

RedLegSuperStar
08-20-2007, 12:01 PM
Votto is only 23. I'd let him finish the AAA season and give him a September call up. Everybody has wanted to cut short his AAA year, but I see a lot of progress. He has started to hit for more power now and is obviously more comfortable with pitching at that level. He has also learned to play another position which helps with flexibility. I think it has made good sense for him to be at Louisville this year.

I don't know how he fits in next year. Depends on Dunn and Hatteberg, are they around in 2008, and if so what is Hatte's role. But there's no need to bring him up right now, unless an injury opens up playing time.

But I see teams who are in contention calling up younger prospects like Justin Upton (19/Arizona), Cameron Maybin (20/Tigers), Lastings Milledge (22/Mets), and Asdrubal Cabrera (22/Indians)

Kc61
08-20-2007, 12:08 PM
But I see teams who are in contention calling up younger prospects like Justin Upton (19/Arizona), Cameron Maybin (20/Tigers), Lastings Milledge (22/Mets), and Asdrubal Cabrera (22/Indians)

Well, I know for example that the Tigers and Mets had outfield needs that caused them to call up Maybin/Milledge. As I said, if the Reds have an injury that opens up playing time for Votto, I'd bring him up. Absent that, I wouldn't.

September will give Votto a chance to see major league ball, get some at bats, and get his feet wet.

dougdirt
08-20-2007, 12:11 PM
Maybin being called up is going to bite the Tigers in the butt. They would have been much better off calling up Timo Perez who is hitting very well in AAA over a guy a week removed from the FSL who is 20.

As for the Reds and Votto..... according to C. Trent on his blog during a game thread the other day.


it looks like hatterberg will be around for another year... the reds brass, from what i hear, isn't too high on votto. they see him as an aaaa type player

BRM
08-20-2007, 12:13 PM
I expect he'll get traded this winter if that's the case, Doug.

Ltlabner
08-20-2007, 12:14 PM
it looks like hatterberg will be around for another year... the reds brass, from what i hear, isn't too high on votto. they see him as an aaaa type player
.

AAAA player? Huh?

He's yet to take a MLB pitch so I'm not anoiting him a savoir, but I don't recall anyone ever suggesting he was a AAAA player before this. Weird.

dougdirt
08-20-2007, 12:15 PM
I completely disagree with the AAAA player on Votto. Its also the first time I have heard of it, but then again when it comes to the current Reds brass and evaluating talent, I have no faith in them anyways.

BoydsOfSummer
08-20-2007, 12:17 PM
If he's a four-A guy the Reds should freaking love him. They spend millions every damn off season filling the roster with them. And twice Votto's age to boot.

RFS62
08-20-2007, 12:33 PM
Let him finish the season in AAA, then bring him up in September.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 12:38 PM
They spend millions every damn off season filling the roster with them. And twice Votto's age to boot.We only wish that all the fodder was actually AAAA quality ... some is much less than that.

RedLegSuperStar
08-20-2007, 12:45 PM
Per Lance -


Votto wins IL hitter of the week

(International League) Louisville’s JOEY VOTTO enjoyed one of the League’s best two-game outbursts of the season Fridayand Saturday to slug his way to the Batter-of-the-Week award. No IL hitter had more homers or RBI for the entire week than Votto accumulated over the two-game stretch. He went deep twice in each contest, driving in 9 runs to lead the Bats to back-to-back victories. For the week he totaled five homers with 12 RBI, and also tied for the League-lead in extra-base hits (6) and slugging percentage (1.000). Votto is wrapping up an incredible rookie campaign at the Triple-A level, finding himself among the League leaders in several offensive categories. He is 9th in hitting (.303), 4th in home runs(21), 2nd in RBI (87), 3rd in hits (134), and T-3rd in on-base percentage (.391). Votto’s bat has beenconsistent in the midst of a season where he is learning a new defensive position. The career first baseman has played 33 games in left field.

Cedric
08-20-2007, 12:56 PM
Maybin being called up is going to bite the Tigers in the butt. They would have been much better off calling up Timo Perez who is hitting very well in AAA over a guy a week removed from the FSL who is 20.

As for the Reds and Votto..... according to C. Trent on his blog during a game thread the other day.

Timo Perez? The Bruce and Maybin types don't need much seasoning. Throw them in the mix and I bet they more than hold their own.

dougdirt
08-20-2007, 12:59 PM
Timo Perez? The Bruce and Maybin types don't need much seasoning. Throw them in the mix and I bet they more than hold their own.

Maybin puts the ball on the ground 61% of the time and has a line drive rate below 11 percent (in High A to boot).. Bruce and Upton can hold their own. I don't have much faith in Maybin to succeed yet. 23% of his hits in the minors were infield singles, and only 1 of those were on a bunt. He uses his speed to his advantage on young minor leaguers to get on base with hits. That wont happen nearly at the same rate in the majors.

RedsManRick
08-20-2007, 01:02 PM
Scott Hatteberg is hitting .301/.390/.473 in the majors. The Reds would have to be stupid not to exercise Hatteberg's option, even if it's just to have him as a bench guy and tutor for next year.

Joey Votto is hitting .305/.393/.499 in AAA.

I absolutely believe Votto is the 1B of the future. However, unless they plan on letting Hatteberg walk and bring Votto up to start, there's no reason to take him away from getting regular AB in AAA. A sub .900 OPS is not destroying the level. Votto has done well and deserves a call up, but it's not like he's way above the level.

He's ready for an opportunity with the big club and should get the call when that opportunity is available. His growth will not be stunted if he doesn't get an extended, legitimate big league opportunity until next spring.

camisadelgolf
08-20-2007, 01:30 PM
1. Votto needs at-bats, and he's blocked by Hatteberg.
2. When the IL's season is over, call up Votto.
3. Pick up Hatteberg's option (or decline and offer arbitration if it means there's draft pick compensation).
4. Trade Hatteberg at some point next year.

KronoRed
08-20-2007, 01:47 PM
Votto is a AAAA player?

Comical, based on what? he's 24? I forgot every hitting prospect must be Jay Bruce.

Anyway there is no reason to call up Votto with Hat still around and the Reds sticking to their "we're in it" insanity, hopefully they decline the option and let Votto have 1st next year

BRM
08-20-2007, 01:50 PM
hopefully they decline the option and let Votto have 1st next year

Don't hold your breath on that one, Krono.

KronoRed
08-20-2007, 01:52 PM
Yeah, I expect Votto to be dealt for an older BP arm, because we're "so close" ;)

cumberlandreds
08-20-2007, 02:01 PM
Yeah, I expect Votto to be dealt for an older BP arm, because we're "so close" ;)

It wouldn't surprise me if they trade Votto and we see a 1st base combo of Hat and Cantu next season. I'm certainly not advocating that bit I can see the Reds doing that very thing.:(

sonny
08-20-2007, 11:51 PM
Let him finish the season in AAA, then bring him up in September.

Actually I'd promote him to AAAA for now, just to see how well he can hit at that level. :)

OnBaseMachine
08-21-2007, 07:11 PM
Maybin being called up is going to bite the Tigers in the butt. They would have been much better off calling up Timo Perez who is hitting very well in AAA over a guy a week removed from the FSL who is 20.

As for the Reds and Votto..... according to C. Trent on his blog during a game thread the other day.

Doesn't surprise me at all. Afterall, the Reds have a bunch of idiots running this organization.

Cyclone792
08-21-2007, 07:23 PM
it looks like hatterberg will be around for another year... the reds brass, from what i hear, isn't too high on votto. they see him as an aaaa type player

Of course the Reds' brass isn't too high on Votto. His game involves walks, getting on base, but also includes strikeouts. The Reds prefer guys who put the ball in play and avoid strikeouts while seemingly ignoring the concept of avoiding outs and getting on base.

Redsland
08-22-2007, 04:04 PM
Marty, Jeff, and Hal went on at length about Joey Votto during the second inning yesterday. They are as mystified as we are as to why Joey isn't up here.

All I can figure is that the Reds don't believe he can hit up here, and don't want to suppress his trade value by exposing that inability. Instead they let him continue to pad his resume in AAA for an offseason trade that lets newly acquired Jorge Cantu and the soon-to-be-retained Scott Hatteberg share 1B next season.

I can't come up with any other explanation as to why he isn't here.

BRM
08-22-2007, 04:05 PM
Marty, Jeff, and Hal went on at length about Joey Votto during the second inning yesterday. They are as mystified as we are as to why Joey isn't up here.

All I can figure is that the Reds don't believe he can hit up here, and don't want to suppress his trade value by exposing that inability. Instead they let him continue to pad his resume in AAA for an offseason trade that lets newly acquired Jorge Cantu and the soon-to-be-retained Scott Hatteberg share 1B next season.

I can't come up with any other explanation as to why he isn't here.

Wayne doesn't he think he's ready defensively. That's what he hinted at this morning.

RedLegSuperStar
08-22-2007, 04:06 PM
Marty, Jeff, and Hal went on at length about Joey Votto during the second inning yesterday. They are as mystified as we are as to why Joey isn't up here.

All I can figure is that the Reds don't believe he can hit up here, and don't want to suppress his trade value by exposing that inability. Instead they let him continue to pad his resume in AAA for an offseason trade that lets newly acquired Jorge Cantu and the soon-to-be-retained Scott Hatteberg share 1B next season.

I can't come up with any other explanation as to why he isn't here.

I hope it doesn't turn out to be a Jeff Bagwell type trade...

Johnny Footstool
08-22-2007, 04:10 PM
Wayne doesn't he think he's ready defensively. That's what he hinted at this morning.

That's a lame excuse. I think they just don't want his service time to begin yet.

They'll call him up in September, though.

Matt700wlw
08-22-2007, 04:11 PM
Wayne doesn't he think he's ready defensively. That's what he hinted at this morning.

Yet Jorge Cantu is now part of your first base tandem...with Hatteberg


The guy isn't even technically a first baseman...

See, this is what happens when you keep picking up infielders when it's clear that pitching is the biggest hole.


If it's about defense, then make it about defense....if it's only for certain guys, then that's a double standard. What is the vision? What is the plan?

BRM
08-22-2007, 04:12 PM
That's a lame excuse. I think they just don't want his service time to begin yet.

They'll call him up in September, though.

I think so too honestly. I just wonder how many starts he'll get when he does come up. Will the Reds be ready to concede and hand the keys over to youngster like Votto next month? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Matt700wlw
08-22-2007, 04:15 PM
That's a lame excuse. I think they just don't want his service time to begin yet.



With Homer Bailey, he said that's not an issue.


Well...is it or isn't it?

lollipopcurve
08-22-2007, 04:18 PM
I think they just don't want his service time to begin yet.

They'll call him up in September, though.

I agree. I'm not worried yet. We'll see how he's handled in September. If Hatteberg is still getting most of the ABs, we may have a problem.

RedsManRick
08-22-2007, 04:32 PM
That's a lame excuse. I think they just don't want his service time to begin yet.

They'll call him up in September, though.

I agree 100%. With Hatteberg hitting the way he is, they intend to exercise that sweetheart option. If call up Votto, he's either going to ride the pine or force Hatteberg to the bench, which kills his trade value.

Even Wayne knows that Votto isn't likely to exceed Hatteberg's production to date in his first year. So they keep Votto down, saving service time and allowing Hatteberg to keep building trade value. Hatteberg will then be traded after his option is exercised, either in the offseason or next summer.

Votto is young enough and does only have 1 year in AAA, so it's not like he's going to be developmentally stifled.

While I can make/see the argument that WK is stupid, I can see the above being the case as well. If Votto really is your future, but you're out of it this year, why waste service time and hurt Hatteberg's value?

pedro
08-22-2007, 04:52 PM
Votto has made 11 E's this year. I don't know how many were at 1st vs. LF but that's a lot of E's for a first baseman.

Maybe he is a lousy fielder.

BRM
08-22-2007, 04:55 PM
Votto has made 11 E's this year. I don't know how many were at 1st vs. LF but that's a lot of E's for a first baseman.

Maybe he is a lousy fielder.

That is a lot of errors. I'd be curious to know how many were in LF.

Matt700wlw
08-22-2007, 04:57 PM
That is a lot of errors. I'd be curious to know how many were in LF.

So would I.

I still want to know the logic of trying to make him a left fielder, in AAA, when he's come up through the ranks as a first baseman.

pedro
08-22-2007, 05:07 PM
So would I.

I still want to know the logic of trying to make him a left fielder, in AAA, when he's come up through the ranks as a first baseman.

probably b/c he's made so many errors at 1st with little improvement that they think they have to.

Look at his minor league numbers. The guy has made a ton of E's for a 1st baseman. That leads me to believe he's not saving his teammates from many either.

Of course, the Reds probably don't have any clue and are just stupid and neglectful. After all, no one in the organization ever gets to see the guy play in person, unlike the rest of us who get to judge his defense by evaluating his minor league OPS.

Matt700wlw
08-22-2007, 05:09 PM
probably b/c he's made so many errors at 1st with little improvement that they think they have to.

Look at his minor league numbers. The guy has made a ton of E's for a 1st baseman. That leads me to believe he's not saving his teammates from many either.

Of course, the Reds probably don't have any clue and are just stupid and neglectful. After all, no one in the organization ever gets to see the guy play in person, unlike the rest of us who get to judge his defense by evaluating his minor league OPS.

I'm not saying it's not true, I'd just like to know.

Maybe he's another Adam Dunn defensive liability....which if that's the case, it isn't going to matter if he's playing first or left.

flyer85
08-22-2007, 05:14 PM
Maybe he is a lousy fielder.If he can't play first it really ought to make one wonder if he can play any position. Then again, if he hits well enough it won't matter(see Ryan Howard).

Worrying about LF and 1B defense should really be way down the list. Hatty isn't particularly good over at 1b(-1 FRAR, -6 FRAA this year) and it doesn't seem to bother anyone.

pedro
08-22-2007, 05:14 PM
I'm not saying it's not true, I'd just like to know.

Maybe he's another Adam Dunn defensive liability....which if that's the case, it isn't going to matter if he's playing first or left.

So you're suggesting that the Reds call him up so we, as fans, can evaluate whether or not the organizations beliefs about a player are indeed true? That's snappy way to run things.

Then if he fails we'd all get to pile on about how Krivsky shouldn't have called him up b/c he's not ready defensively!

Matt700wlw
08-22-2007, 05:17 PM
So you're suggesting that the Reds call him up so we, as fans, can evaluate whether or not the organizations beliefs about a player are indeed true? That's snappy way to run things.



Maybe I just don't trust the organization all that much...or I think Krivsky's answers are just a load of crap, and he thinks we're stupid. Maybe I think he talks down to us, and acts like we're supposed to take everything he says like it's gospel.


I've lost a lot of faith in the guy...what can I say? I hope he proves me wrong, so I can have his back again.

KronoRed
08-22-2007, 05:35 PM
Cantu is poor defesnviely yet he's here because he's got a chance to be right handed pop, I'm with flyer, 1st base D shouldn't prevent a team from seeing if a guy has a good bat.

Johnny Footstool
08-22-2007, 05:43 PM
So you're suggesting that the Reds call him up so we, as fans, can evaluate whether or not the organizations beliefs about a player are indeed true? That's snappy way to run things.

Then if he fails we'd all get to pile on about how Krivsky shouldn't have called him up b/c he's not ready defensively!

Krivsky's ability to evaluate defense has been spotty at best.

pedro
08-22-2007, 06:10 PM
Krivsky's ability to evaluate defense has been spotty at best.

Then by all means call the guy up so we can do it for him by watching the games on TV!

It's not like the Reds have scouts or other coaches in the organization. It's all Wayne All the Time! 24/7!

Seriously though, if defense didn't matter at all why did it take Jack Cust so long to find a job? He certainly never had problems with the bat. In fact, his minor league stats look better than Votto's to me.

RANDY IN INDY
08-22-2007, 06:21 PM
If he can't play first it really ought to make one wonder if he can play any position.

That may well be one of the dumbest statements that I have ever heard. First base while looking easy, is not as easy as most people think, particularly when you are sometimes surrounded with arms that are not all that good or accurate. You can make them look good and they can certainly make you look bad.

flyer85
08-22-2007, 06:35 PM
That may well be one of the dumbest statements that I have ever heard. from an athletic standpoint it is the easiest position on the field, the rest can be learned. There is a reason they try guys there once they figure out they can't play anywhere else ... but I guess you've never heard of that. If you struggle to play first nothing is more obvious then you are likely to struggle at any other position because there are no easy positions in baseball. I guess that is why baseball history is full of guys who have left 1B for defensive success at other positions.

cincrazy
08-22-2007, 07:41 PM
Pedro, I don't think anyone is insinuating that Wayne Krivsky is the ONLY one that evaulates all of the talent in this organization. But the fact of this matter is, for the better part of 17 years, this franchise as a whole, from the top on down, has proven absolutely inept at evaulating talent. Many people, including me, don't trust this organization in this regard, and with good reason.

I'm sure they know what they're talking about when it comes to Votto, but this city lost trust in this team a long time back, and it's going to take more than correctly assessing a minor league 1B's ability to play D in the majors to win that trust back, fair or not.

GAC
08-22-2007, 09:03 PM
I just wanted to "highlight" these three posts, because it says it all IMO, and seems to express a voice of reason on this Votto situation.....


I don't see much of a point to bring him up with Hatteberg still around, unless you are going to bench Hat. If he's going to play everybody, then by all means. But bringing him up before the minor league season ends just to get him 4-5 AB a week is counter productive. Having him start against lefties, in Conine's place, would be pretty stupid too.

Bring him up for his September cup of coffee and trade Hatteberg over the winter to clear room.


I agree 100%. With Hatteberg hitting the way he is, they intend to exercise that sweetheart option. If call up Votto, he's either going to ride the pine or force Hatteberg to the bench, which kills his trade value.

Even Wayne knows that Votto isn't likely to exceed Hatteberg's production to date in his first year. So they keep Votto down, saving service time and allowing Hatteberg to keep building trade value. Hatteberg will then be traded after his option is exercised, either in the offseason or next summer.
Votto is young enough and does only have 1 year in AAA, so it's not like he's going to be developmentally stifled.


Scott Hatteberg is hitting .301/.390/.473 in the majors. The Reds would have to be stupid not to exercise Hatteberg's option, even if it's just to have him as a bench guy and tutor for next year.



Joey Votto is hitting .305/.393/.499 in AAA.



I absolutely believe Votto is the 1B of the future. However, unless they plan on letting Hatteberg walk and bring Votto up to start, there's no reason to take him away from getting regular AB in AAA. A sub .900 OPS is not destroying the level. Votto has done well and deserves a call up, but it's not like he's way above the level.



He's ready for an opportunity with the big club and should get the call when that opportunity is available. His growth will not be stunted if he doesn't get an extended, legitimate big league opportunity until next spring.

OnBaseMachine
08-22-2007, 09:03 PM
I look forward to the day Wayne Krivsky is no longer the GM of the Cincinnati Reds.

GAC
08-22-2007, 09:13 PM
Marty, Jeff, and Hal went on at length about Joey Votto during the second inning yesterday. They are as mystified as we are as to why Joey isn't up here.

Aren't these the same guys who rail on Dunn and build up Norris Hooper?

There's a reason why they're in the broadcast booth.

Nuff said. ;)

jojo
08-22-2007, 09:37 PM
If he can't play first it really ought to make one wonder if he can play any position. Then again, if he hits well enough it won't matter(see Ryan Howard).

Worrying about LF and 1B defense should really be way down the list. Hatty isn't particularly good over at 1b(-1 FRAR, -6 FRAA this year) and it doesn't seem to bother anyone.

Hatteberg is actually a slightly above league average defender based upon the gold standard PBP metrics (BP's defensive metrics are ****e-even Nate Silver doesn't brag about them).

The notion that poor defense doesn't hurt as much on the left side of the spectrum is really a false one. While it's true positions on the left side of the spectrum are easier to play so therefore there is a larger pool of players capable of playing them, that doesn't diminish the impact of being 10 runs below average there. Those ten runs in essence decrease the impact that such a player has on his team' run differential.

In the case of Votto, his bat basically projects to be somewhere around league average for a first baseman. If his defense truly is as bad as the Reds seem to believe it is, then it's reasonable to wonder if Votto could indeed even be a useful major league first baseman when considering his overall value.