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View Full Version : Jorge Cantu getting promoted - Per C. Trent



BRM
08-20-2007, 03:05 PM
From C. Trent.



Anyway, have been told that Jorge Cantu is getting called up. Not sure whose spot he would be taking, but it could be Bellhorn or something else is up. Will let you know as soon as possible.

cumberlandreds
08-20-2007, 03:08 PM
From C. Trent.

Conine?

KronoRed
08-20-2007, 03:08 PM
Instead of 3 catchers it'll be 3 1st basemen?

BRM
08-20-2007, 03:09 PM
You would think this means Conine has been dealt.

lollipopcurve
08-20-2007, 03:17 PM
Probably Conine for PTBNL.

KronoRed
08-20-2007, 03:17 PM
Bellhorn was just as much a disaster at the IF spots as Cantu will be, so maybe it's that.

redsfan30
08-20-2007, 03:18 PM
Has to be Jeff Conine.

BRM
08-20-2007, 03:20 PM
Maybe it's EE getting traded... :evil:

Tom Servo
08-20-2007, 03:28 PM
Got to be either Bellhorn or Conine.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 03:32 PM
it would really only make sense if Conine goes because otherwise he'll be just a PH.

KronoRed
08-20-2007, 03:35 PM
Maybe it's EE getting traded... :evil:

With Votto for David Wells :cool:

redsfan30
08-20-2007, 03:36 PM
I'm excited to see what Cantu can bring to the table.

RedLegSuperStar
08-20-2007, 03:51 PM
I'm excited to see what Cantu can bring to the table.

Me too.. start him

flyer85
08-20-2007, 04:00 PM
I'm excited to see what Cantu can bring to the table.likely a bent fork and a dull knife

Joseph
08-20-2007, 04:06 PM
likely a bent fork and a dull knife

Which may be slightly better than the spork and the butter knife we've used so far this season on the bench.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 04:07 PM
Maybe he is just going to bat higher in the order in AAA?

BRM
08-20-2007, 04:08 PM
Bellhorn is in the lineup at 3B tonight.

redsfan30
08-20-2007, 04:10 PM
With Bellhorn in the lineup tonight, it all but assures us of a Conine trade.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 04:11 PM
Bellhorn is in the lineup at 3B tonight.that is scary

BRM
08-20-2007, 04:12 PM
that is scary

That was my initial thought. I hope my EE getting traded joke isn't about to backfire on me.

corkedbat
08-20-2007, 04:14 PM
Bellhorn is in the lineup at 3B tonight.

If they're bound and determined to not play EdE I'd at least rather wee them jettsion Bellhorn and bring up Herr. Can't see not playing Edwin everyday though.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 04:14 PM
That was my initial thought. I hope my EE getting traded joke isn't about to backfire on me.Bellhorn is 6-12 in his career against Hudson(EE is 1-6), I would guess that is the reason he is playing.

BRM
08-20-2007, 04:15 PM
Bellhorn is 6-12 in his career against Hudson(EE is 1-6), I would guess that is the reason he is playing.

Ah, making lineup decisions based on very small sample sizes with matchups. That makes sense.

KronoRed
08-20-2007, 04:17 PM
Ah, making lineup decisions based on very small sample sizes with matchups. That makes sense.

Reds..power of tradition :cool:

westofyou
08-20-2007, 05:10 PM
EE has still done little this season


.256/.293/.342 since the AS game. he has shown limited power all year long, only having one game with more than one EBH, he's walked only 4 times in the last 5 weeks.

What's amazing is that his performance has become the Stealth plane of player disappointments on this years roster.

Hoosier Red
08-20-2007, 05:14 PM
WOY you don't understand. It's all the managements' fault that EE is not producing.
They're not playing him enough(4th on team in at bats and games played)
It's all a small sample size(373 At bats)

remdog
08-20-2007, 05:14 PM
The point is that if you're playing Belhorn because he's hitting .500 in all of 12 AB's against Hudson it indicates that you are still in a 'win at any cost in '07/I'm trying to save my job' mode rather than doing the best thing for the teams' future and trying to get Edwin going.

Rem

red-in-la
08-20-2007, 05:16 PM
That was my initial thought. I hope my EE getting traded joke isn't about to backfire on me.

I doubt that EE would pass through waivers so I think you joke is safe.

Strikes Out Looking
08-20-2007, 05:18 PM
Does anyone else think that maybe EdE's so-so stats this season are due to his playing baseball full time for the last few years (he played winter ball). By the way, I'd find it hard to believe that EdE passed through waivers, I believe it's Conine.

BRM
08-20-2007, 05:18 PM
I doubt that EE would pass through waivers so I think you joke is safe.

I know.

Rosenthal is reporting a deal sending Conine to the Mets is close. 2 A-ball players coming to Cincinnati.

lollipopcurve
08-20-2007, 05:18 PM
EE has still done little this season


.256/.293/.342 since the AS game. he has shown limited power all year long, only having one game with more than one EBH, he's walked only 4 times in the last 5 weeks.

What's amazing is that his performance has become the Stealth plane of player disappointments on this years roster.

He was better last year. The league has adjusted (he's seeing very little hard stuff in the zone and a lot of breaking stuff away) and he hasn't figured out what to do about it. The inability to recognize a breaking ball off the plate is troubling. And the lack of EBH power is curious.

He's settled down at 3rd, though, and that's a good sign. I'd give him another solid shot in 08 while he's still young and cheap, but I'd also make sure there's a backup plan.

red-in-la
08-20-2007, 05:18 PM
The point is that if you're playing Belhorn because he's hitting .500 in all of 12 AB's against Hudson it indicates that you are still in a 'win at any cost in '07/I'm trying to save my job' mode rather than doing the best thing for the teams' future and trying to get Edwin going.

Rem

If you are starting a pitcher with a 10.32 ERA, it means you don't know WHAT your plan is......IMHO.

red-in-la
08-20-2007, 05:24 PM
He was better last year. The league has adjusted (he's seeing very little hard stuff in the zone and a lot of breaking stuff away) and he hasn't figured out what to do about it. The inability to recognize a breaking ball off the plate is troubling. And the lack of EBH power is curious.

He's settled down at 3rd, though, and that's a good sign. I'd give him another solid shot in 08 while he's still young and cheap, but I'd also make sure there's a backup plan.

I don't think the league has adjusted as much as his "coaches" have be telling him they need power from 3B.

It used to be that Adam Dunn had "great" plate coverage.....but instead he now tries to hit the Ohio River with each swing.....and this is when he is playing in New York...:ughmamoru

And if I recall correctly, LaRue came up as a "hit-it-the-other-way-guy" but turned, eventually into Mr. Strikeout.

So I hope I am wrong in my observation about this.....I hope EE gets back to hitting the ball where it is pitched.

KronoRed
08-20-2007, 05:28 PM
I'll take EE's subpar offensive production if his defense is good (it is) and we're getting above average offense out of the rest of the infield (we are)

At his age he can get better.

He's cheap, if he's still stinking when he reaches arbitration, that is the time to boot him off the SS Reds.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 05:37 PM
I don't think the league has adjusted as much as his "coaches" have be telling him they need power from 3B.and you are basing that upon ...

Big Klu
08-20-2007, 05:55 PM
EE has still done little this season


.256/.293/.342 since the AS game. he has shown limited power all year long, only having one game with more than one EBH, he's walked only 4 times in the last 5 weeks.

What's amazing is that his performance has become the Stealth plane of player disappointments on this years roster.


WOY you don't understand. It's all the managements' fault that EE is not producing.
They're not playing him enough(4th on team in at bats and games played)
It's all a small sample size(373 At bats)

I saw an argument in another thread (I can't remember who it was, and I don't want to bother to look it up) that Edwin is hitting too low in the order, and he would be better utilized as the #3 hitter in the order. I just shook my head at that one.

Encarnacion is the regular 3B on this club. The Reds are not "jerking him around" just because he is getting a night off, and a seldom-used player is getting a rare spot-start.

WVRedsFan
08-20-2007, 07:17 PM
Bellhorn is in the lineup at 3B tonight.


WHAT?!

BCubb2003
08-20-2007, 07:43 PM
Bellhorn is in the lineup at 3B tonight.

How can they do that -- we're still trying to win this thing!

MartyFan
08-20-2007, 07:58 PM
I don't mind getting Cantu on the roster, he stunk it up and had a bad attitude this year in Tampa but he has a history of success and the new location may be the thing to get him in the right frame of mind.

red-in-la
08-20-2007, 08:31 PM
and you are basing that upon ...

Because at one point, EE hit a lot of doubles and hit the ball the other way. Now, as some have pointed out that he strikes out a lot on low and away breaking stuff.

That, in my experience comes from pulling off....trying to pull the ball too much.

Doc. Scott
08-20-2007, 09:21 PM
I don't mind getting Cantu on the roster, he stunk it up and had a bad attitude this year in Tampa but he has a history of success and the new location may be the thing to get him in the right frame of mind.

Well, it helped him in AAA, at least. He hit .309/.363/.468 in black and purple. Heckuva lot better than he did at Durham or TB.

Always Red
08-20-2007, 09:28 PM
I don't think the league has adjusted as much as his "coaches" have be telling him they need power from 3B.

...

So I hope I am wrong in my observation about this.....I hope EE gets back to hitting the ball where it is pitched.

Or, it comes when a young guy has a taste of knocking the snot out of a few balls into the left field bleachers and decides he'd like to do that all of the time.

I hope EE turns it around too. His defense has picked up nicely, and I'd love to see him hit the ball to RF the way he did last year. I'd give him all of next year too, before I'd write him off.

I sincerely doubt that he's being coached to pull off the ball.

If EE doesn't pan out, there is a very nice prospect in A ball right now, Juan Francisco, who hit 3 HR's for that Dayton Dragons last night.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 10:16 PM
Because at one point, EE hit a lot of doubles and hit the ball the other way. Now, as some have pointed out that he strikes out a lot on low and away breaking stuff.

That, in my experience comes from pulling off....trying to pull the ball too much.and how did you make the leap that coaching is the problem?

membengal
08-20-2007, 10:51 PM
So, Cantu coming up over Votto then? Do I have that right?

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 10:53 PM
So, Cantu coming up over Votto then? Do I have that right?

Cantu - right handed

Votto - left handed

(departed Conine)

Hatteberg - left handed.


That's your reason, I would guess....

KronoRed
08-20-2007, 11:12 PM
So, Cantu coming up over Votto then? Do I have that right?

Yep, lefty righty, same reason Votto won't be here till Hat is not.

Funny though, the comment in the paper about Votto suggested the Reds see him as a AAAA player, funny because Cantu fits that description a lot more then Votto.

Ron Madden
08-21-2007, 04:27 AM
EE has still done little this season


.256/.293/.342 since the AS game. he has shown limited power all year long, only having one game with more than one EBH, he's walked only 4 times in the last 5 weeks.

What's amazing is that his performance has become the Stealth plane of player disappointments on this years roster.

I have been one of Edwins most loyal supporters. I still am.

I've been very disappointed about EE's offensive numbers this season but we must remember EE is still very young.

I thought Edwin had a fine year in 2006. He had a hot start outta the gate and Narron wasn't afraid to hit him higher in the order.

He got off to a slow start this season and Narron droped him like a hot rock.

I really do believe a #5 or #6 hitter sees better pitches than a #7 or #8 hitter does but I can't prove it.


The so called "Sophomore Jinx" has effected more than one young promising hitter. Let's hope Edwin bounces back in 2008. :beerme:

Cedric
08-21-2007, 04:30 AM
Edwin is a little like Austin Kearns. Much too long a swing for extended success at this level. I've honestly never seen a swing as slow and long as Edwin has right now. He needs to adjust quick or just become another name.

MartyFan
08-21-2007, 05:11 AM
I hope EE succeeds the same way I hope any other player succeed on the Reds...I have no personal preference that he stay or get traded...the last player I was attached to was Davey Concepcion...I hope EE gets it together and I would prefer that he do it sooner rather than later.

RANDY IN INDY
08-21-2007, 09:13 AM
Edwin is a little like Austin Kearns. Much too long a swing for extended success at this level. I've honestly never seen a swing as slow and long as Edwin has right now. He needs to adjust quick or just become another name.

Seems that EE's swing has gotten longer, as you pointed out, Cedric. I don't remember his swing being so long when he first came up. Matter of fact, it was much quicker and compact. Seems like he is always wanting to get those arms extended now.

osuceltic
08-21-2007, 09:34 AM
Funny though, the comment in the paper about Votto suggested the Reds see him as a AAAA player, funny because Cantu fits that description a lot more then Votto.
Well, Cantu did drive in 117 runs in the big leagues. Pretty good for a AAAA player.

We just don't know with Votto. Is he Ben Broussard?

puca
08-21-2007, 10:00 AM
Even in his career year Cantu only got on base at a .311 clip. He may have been successful in driving in runners that year, but he severly hurt the chances of anyone behind him doing so. While the Reds have employed much worse bench players this year, I really hope he doesn't become a regular. And if you are thinking about him as a platoon, his career numbers are slightly better against RH than LH pitchers.

If you are disappointed in EE's sophmore slump, I suggest you take a look at Cantu's 2006.

osuceltic
08-21-2007, 10:28 AM
Even in his career year Cantu only got on base at a .311 clip. He may have been successful in driving in runners that year, but he severly hurt the chances of anyone behind him doing so. While the Reds have employed much worse bench players this year, I really hope he doesn't become a regular. And if you are thinking about him as a platoon, his career numbers are slightly better against RH than LH pitchers.

If you are disappointed in EE's sophmore slump, I suggest you take a look at Cantu's 2006.

When EE has a season approaching Cantu's best season, then we can dismiss this. Until then, let's see what happens. Cantu isn't an OBP guy. Probably never will be. But you could do a lot worse in the six hole in a lineup than a guy who, at his best, finds a way to drive in runs like Cantu has shown.

Can he ever produce that way again? We'll see. Injuries and a feud with the front office sidetracked him in Tampa, but he's still young and seems like a guy who needed a change of scenery.

membengal
08-21-2007, 10:35 AM
Well, Cantu did drive in 117 runs in the big leagues. Pretty good for a AAAA player.

We just don't know with Votto. Is he Ben Broussard?

Who knows? How will the Reds ever find out?

westofyou
08-21-2007, 11:07 AM
I really do believe a #5 or #6 hitter sees better pitches than a #7 or #8 hitter does but I can't prove it.

Yet EE OPS'd less in the #5 and #6 slot (.636) in over 200 ab's.

It looks like he got plenty of chances in that slot, and he churned out a .318 and .333 slg% in all those chances.

I'd drop his butt down lower too if he hit the ball that soft in the meat of the order.

puca
08-21-2007, 11:10 AM
When EE has a season approaching Cantu's best season, then we can dismiss this. Until then, let's see what happens. Cantu isn't an OBP guy. Probably never will be. But you could do a lot worse in the six hole in a lineup than a guy who, at his best, finds a way to drive in runs like Cantu has shown.

Can he ever produce that way again? We'll see. Injuries and a feud with the front office sidetracked him in Tampa, but he's still young and seems like a guy who needed a change of scenery.

I guess we will have to agree to differ because I think EE's 2006 was BETTER than Cantu's 2005. The counting stats are simply because EE only got 400 ABs versus Cantu's 600.

osuceltic
08-21-2007, 11:23 AM
I guess we will have to agree to differ because I think EE's 2006 was BETTER than Cantu's 2005. The counting stats are simply because EE only got 400 ABs versus Cantu's 600.

Fair enough.

KronoRed
08-21-2007, 02:41 PM
Well, Cantu did drive in 117 runs in the big leagues. Pretty good for a AAAA player.

We just don't know with Votto. Is he Ben Broussard?

..and stank it up last year and landed in AAA this year, one year wonders are all over the history of baseball, Fernando Tatis keeps getting work based on his one big year in 1999. ;)

Ravenlord
08-21-2007, 02:44 PM
and for the side by side comparison:

Good Year
AB AVG OBP SLG OPS IsoD IsoP IOS P/PA
406 276 359 473 832 083 197 280 3.84
598 286 311 497 808 025 211 236 3.30

Sophmore
AB AVG OBP SLG OPS IsoD IsoP IOS P/PA
373 265 335 375 710 070 110 180 3.76
413 249 295 404 699 046 155 201 3.71

Matt700wlw
08-21-2007, 03:52 PM
Well, Cantu did drive in 117 runs in the big leagues. Pretty good for a AAAA player.

We just don't know with Votto. Is he Ben Broussard?

Don't know. Let's find out.

Can't find out with him down there!

osuceltic
08-21-2007, 05:12 PM
Don't know. Let's find out.

Can't find out with him down there!

Completely agree.

The one counter-argument: If the Reds really, truly feel Votto is a AAAA player, then they may be better off letting him put up monster numbers at AAA and dealing him in the offseason. If they call him up and he looks absolutely overmatched, that may really drop his value.

Not saying that's the way I'd look at it, but I can see why they might think that way if their evaluators honestly believe the guy isn't a big league player.

BRM
08-22-2007, 12:13 PM
A couple of quotes on C. Trent's blog after last night's game.



Pete: "Cantu looks like heís going to fit in nicely. He looks like a very confident guy. Thatís what I like about him, heís not scared, heís confident and heís here to produce. It looks like heís on a mission. Thatís just going to make my job tougher if I keep getting guys who keep hitting, then what do I do?"




Cantu: "Iíve established myself as a run producer and I miss that. Somehow I concentrate more when I have those guys in scoring position and thatís what Iíve been doing at the major league level and hopefully I can continue to help the Cincinnati Reds."

Unassisted
08-22-2007, 12:59 PM
It would be great if Cantu's bat made us forget about Votto. If Votto can be swapped for pitching next winter while Cantu and Hatteberg hold down the fort at 1B in '08 and '09, that could be a win-win.

RedsManRick
08-22-2007, 01:28 PM
Cantu and Votto as a cheap 1B platoon isn't a bad idea for 2008 if you ask me.

BRM
08-22-2007, 01:29 PM
Cantu and Votto as a cheap 1B platoon isn't a bad idea for 2007 if you ask me.

Cantu and Hatteberg would be fairly cheap as well. That's probably the platoon Wayne has in mind for 2008.

RedsManRick
08-22-2007, 02:22 PM
Cantu and Hatteberg would be fairly cheap as well. That's probably the platoon Wayne has in mind for 2008.

Oops... '07 instead of '08. Anyways, it sounds to me like Hatteberg will be extended and Votto will stay put for a bit. Wayne is doing his best to kill Votto's trade value, so hopefully the plan is Votto sometime in 2008.

KronoRed
08-22-2007, 02:26 PM
It would be great if Cantu's bat made us forget about Votto. If Votto can be swapped for pitching next winter while Cantu and Hatteberg hold down the fort at 1B in '08 and '09, that could be a win-win.

One good hitting prospect doesn't bring you pitching help anymore, unless it's bullpenners.

Toss Bailey in and you might find a decent pitcher

IMO it would be great if Cantu got hot and could be swapped for something this off season, get younger with Votto

BRM
08-22-2007, 02:36 PM
Wayne apparently didn't sound too high on Votto's defense on his radio interview this morning. He's down on Votto's defense but Cantu is good enough for a callup? I don't understand.

KronoRed
08-22-2007, 02:37 PM
Wayne apparently didn't sound too high on Votto's defense on his radio interview this morning. He's down on Votto's defense but Cantu is good enough for a callup? I don't understand.

Welcome to the club

BRM
08-22-2007, 02:38 PM
This is going to be an interesting offseason. I have no earthly idea what Wayne's plan is to build a team for 2008.