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RedLegSuperStar
08-21-2007, 01:08 AM
Fay -


Sounds like the Phil Dumatrait Experiment may be over for 2007. Pete Mackanin said he was going to talk to Wayne Krivsky after the game. A move is likely coming.

"(Dumatrait) may not be ready for this level," Mackanin said.

Dumatrait's ERA 14.18 after four starts. He's given up 27 hits in 13 1/3 innings. I don't know who they'll put in the rotation. But if you heard us on radio, Jeff Brantley's vote is for Johnny Cueto.

Also, I would not be surprised to see Eddie Guardado back on the DL. Running him out there -- 4 innings, 12 hits, 10 runs in five games -- does him no good.

C. Trent -


Pete also said they make a move with the bullpen before tomorrow.

redsfan4445
08-21-2007, 01:11 AM
don't worry the recycled machine will send us back Coffey ... just don't expect a Cueto or Bailey... Reds don't want us to learn what winning is about.. we are supposed to learn to lose!! oh don't worry they will give another bobblehead away.. hurry and buy tickets!!

RedLegSuperStar
08-21-2007, 01:16 AM
My guess.. Dumatrait down, Guardado DL. Recall Belisle and McBeth.

LoganBuck
08-21-2007, 01:17 AM
Coutlangus is down there as well.

marcshoe
08-21-2007, 01:19 AM
I would certainly hope that they wouldn't send Dumatrait out there again. Even before tonight's game, I was thinking that keeping him in the rotation was a good snapshot of what's brought this team to where it is.

I've been holding out a little hope for Krivsky because he's found some bargains, some useful pieces, but more and more I think the team needs a complete change of philosphy, a fresh vision. Even with the winning record since Pete M's taken over, there are things about this team that tell the truth about the ongoing problems, symptoms that show that the disease is still active and debilitating.

remdog
08-21-2007, 01:31 AM
I would certainly hope that they wouldn't send Dumatrait out there again. Even before tonight's game, I was thinking that keeping him in the rotation was a good snapshot of what's brought this team to where it is.

I've been holding out a little hope for Krivsky because he's found some bargains, some useful pieces, but more and more I think the team needs a complete change of philosphy, a fresh vision. Even with the winning record since Pete M's taken over, there are things about this team that tell the truth about the ongoing problems, symptoms that show that the disease is still active and debilitating.

It all goes back to Castellini. Is he willing to do the things that it takes to make this team a winner---the winner he has publicly said he wants. What it's going to take is spending money---investment spending, if you will---and maybe in big gobs.

Carl Lindner, whether you liked him or not, was very up front about his intentions. He said, flat out, that all he wanted to do was break even and that's what he did. Castellini, if he wants to win is going to have to invest some money on management (both manager and G.M), field level personnel and support structure (scouts, marketing, etc.). AND, he's going to have to see that the money is well spent. No more of these $3M contracts to ageing vets to fill a hole that a kid with potential can fill for the minimum contract.

OK Bob. Time to put up or....

Rem

RedLegSuperStar
08-21-2007, 01:39 AM
Coutlangus is down there as well.

And not really able to retire batters at the AAA level...

RedLegSuperStar
08-21-2007, 01:40 AM
It all goes back to Castellini. Is he willing to do the things that it takes to make this team a winner---the winner he has publicly said he wants. What it's going to take is spending money---investment spending, if you will---and maybe in big gobs.

Carl Lindner, whether you liked him or not, was very up front about his intentions. He said, flat out, that all he wanted to do was break even and that's what he did. Castellini, if he wants to win is going to have to invest some money on management (both manager and G.M), field level personnel and support structure (scouts, marketing, etc.). AND, he's going to have to see that the money is well spent. No more of these $3M contracts to ageing vets to fill a hole that a kid with potential can fill for the minimum contract.

OK Bob. Time to put up or....

Rem

Rem.. good post and took the words out of many of us redszoners

fearofpopvol1
08-21-2007, 02:13 AM
It is very clear that starting pitching is needed this offseason. Probably 3 of them too. The market is fairly thin though so I'm not sure what will be done. The option always exists to trade for it if you can find the right partner. It's hard to say.

marcshoe
08-21-2007, 02:46 AM
Rem.. good post and took the words out of many of us redszoners

Agreed.

MartyFan
08-21-2007, 05:17 AM
I would certainly hope that they wouldn't send Dumatrait out there again. Even before tonight's game, I was thinking that keeping him in the rotation was a good snapshot of what's brought this team to where it is.

I've been holding out a little hope for Krivsky because he's found some bargains, some useful pieces, but more and more I think the team needs a complete change of philosphy, a fresh vision. Even with the winning record since Pete M's taken over, there are things about this team that tell the truth about the ongoing problems, symptoms that show that the disease is still active and debilitating.

I think what we are seeing is a transition from one style of team to another...there is no way the transition of this organization was or is going to be painless, nonetheless, it needs to be done and I think Special K is doing a credible job...I look forward to being blasted by those who disagree.

:beerme:

Ron Madden
08-21-2007, 06:11 AM
Who cares what Jeff Brantley thinks?

Brantley spent the first part of the season calling for Dumatrait to replace Belisle. (that turned out well)

:angry: :rolleyes: :runaway:

Ron Madden
08-21-2007, 06:18 AM
I think what we are seeing is a transition from one style of team to another...there is no way the transition of this organization was or is going to be painless, nonetheless, it needs to be done and I think Special K is doing a credible job...I look forward to being blasted by those who disagree.

:beerme:

Well then,

Consider yourself blasted. :starwars: ;)

camisadelgolf
08-21-2007, 06:29 AM
I think what we are seeing is a transition from one style of team to another...there is no way the transition of this organization was or is going to be painless, nonetheless, it needs to be done and I think Special K is doing a credible job...I look forward to being blasted by those who disagree.

:beerme:

I've got your back. :beerme:

edabbs44
08-21-2007, 06:51 AM
"(Dumatrait) may not be ready for this level," Mackanin said.

http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/1/15/CaptainobviousChooseOption.jpg

Always Red
08-21-2007, 07:49 AM
State of the Reds pitching?

Last night three fellows pitched for the Reds who had 10.00+ ERA's.

wow; I can't believe I just typed that.

Always Red
08-21-2007, 08:01 AM
I don't think Cueto's ready. Dumatrait and Homer weren't, why would Cueto be ready?

My crystal ball says it's Saarloos, in a starting role this time, to see if he has any value before they cut ties with him.

The late August try-outs continue...

Heath
08-21-2007, 08:18 AM
Tom Shearn says :wave:

Honestly, I'd cut all the vets in the pen and bring up all the kids. Bernie Stowe might have some "seat cleaning" to do, but it's cheaper and the experience is good for them.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-21-2007, 09:19 AM
Everyone wanted Lohse dealt, including me.

What did everyone expect would happen? We are better off for the future with Maloney, but it is now what it is. Why does it even matter what the rotation does from here on out?

I agree Dumatrait doesn't belong, but the roatation was already weak and when Lohse was dealt, this was to be expected. Belisle, Livingston, and Ramirez should probably just finish it out as #3, 4, and 5 no matter what. Also, I think Carlos Guevara has earned a spot in the bullpen, especially with all the garbage that has been marched out there.

With all that said, no more Phil Dumatrait, PLEASE.

Coffeybro
08-21-2007, 10:14 AM
don't worry the recycled machine will send us back Coffey ...

This season at Louisville.
W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO GO/AO AVG
1 0 2.16 13 0 0 0 0 16.2 13 4 4 0 2 18 3.25 .213

Since recent send down.
W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO GO/AO AVG
1 0 4.15 5 0 0 0 0 8.2 9 4 4 0 1 8 3.75 .265

Danny Serafini
08-21-2007, 10:17 AM
Tom Shearn says :wave:

Wacky as it sounds I've actually thought about that. Belisle would be the obvious choice to come up, but I'd imagine they've sent him down to work on something specific, and since he's only had one start in AAA it's not like he has had much of a chance to make his adjustments. Looking around the rest of Louisville's starters, there just isn't much. Saarloos left such a bitter taste in the Reds mouth that they outrighted him off the 40 man despite him still having options, so I don't see him coming back. Richie Gardner isn't ready, and Steve Kelly has been horrible this year. I'm not saying Shearn is the answer to the team's problems, he probably isn't, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him get a shot.

dougdirt
08-21-2007, 11:18 AM
I don't think Cueto's ready. Dumatrait and Homer weren't, why would Cueto be ready?

My crystal ball says it's Saarloos, in a starting role this time, to see if he has any value before they cut ties with him.

The late August try-outs continue...

I think Homer was ready (at least to the point to help the team). His groin however was not ready for all of his starts.

westofyou
08-21-2007, 11:23 AM
This season at Louisville.
W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO GO/AO AVG
1 0 2.16 13 0 0 0 0 16.2 13 4 4 0 2 18 3.25 .213

Since recent send down.
W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO GO/AO AVG
1 0 4.15 5 0 0 0 0 8.2 9 4 4 0 1 8 3.75 .265

Does Todd, have an idea where his problems generate from in the bigs this year? Is it a pitch selection problem, control, or a velocity issue?

Are the Reds uniforms too tight?

Does Tom Hume make him nervous?

Or does he pitch better without facial hair?

dougdirt
08-21-2007, 11:28 AM
WOY, I dont think Todd has a velocity problem.... from what I remember he was still bringing some heat wasn't he? Am I losing my memory?

TOBTTReds
08-21-2007, 11:29 AM
Does Todd, have an idea where his problems generate from in the bigs this year? Is it a pitch selection problem, control, or a velocity issue?



I'll blame 4 runs he gave up on JV calling for a full count bases loaded Changeup. Why throw a pitch meant to be out of the strike zone in that situation. When you leave a changeup in the zone, especially when it isn't your best pitch, it's gonna get crushed. I was ticked off when I saw JV call for the change before it was even thrown. TC should have shook him off, but that may not be his style.

TOBTTReds
08-21-2007, 11:31 AM
WOY, I dont think Todd has a velocity problem.... from what I remember he was still bringing some heat wasn't he? Am I losing my memory?

He was still around 93-94. I blame it on command and predictability. I've tried to study him, and I can't find a tip, but it seems like other knew what was coming.

westofyou
08-21-2007, 11:31 AM
WOY, I dont think Todd has a velocity problem.... from what I remember he was still bringing some heat wasn't he? Am I losing my memory?

Heat, little movement IIRC

Johnny Footstool
08-21-2007, 11:38 AM
I think what we are seeing is a transition from one style of team to another...there is no way the transition of this organization was or is going to be painless, nonetheless, it needs to be done and I think Special K is doing a credible job...I look forward to being blasted by those who disagree.

:beerme:

Bowden's Reds scored plenty of runs but couldn't pitch.

O'Brien's Reds scored plenty of runs but couldn't pitch.

Krivsky's Reds are scoring plenty of runs. How's the pitching these days? The bullpen is *still* glaring weakness, despite Krivsky's efforts to improve it.

So where is this "transition"?

Coffeybro
08-21-2007, 11:58 AM
Does Todd, have an idea where his problems generate from in the bigs this year? Is it a pitch selection problem, control, or a velocity issue?

We don't talk about his problems. He has other friends with far more knowledge than me on the subject. (i.e. Weathers)

westofyou
08-21-2007, 12:12 PM
We don't talk about his problems. He has other friends with far more knowledge than me on the subject. (i.e. Weathers)
Fair enough, I'm picturing long talks on the metaphysical between you guys right? ;)

Kc61
08-21-2007, 12:16 PM
We don't talk about his problems. He has other friends with far more knowledge than me on the subject. (i.e. Weathers)

I wonder if he feels he was overused. If you look at his game log, he pitched constantly in April and May. 26 appearances in two months.

SunDeck
08-21-2007, 12:22 PM
Carl Lindner, whether you liked him or not, was very up front about his intentions. He said, flat out, that all he wanted to do was break even and that's what he did.


I wonder about that. My guess is that he came out ahead. I think he paid around $70 million for controlling interest in the club. The purchase by Castellini was complicated- didn't he and his partners buy 75% (more than Lindner owned)?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the value of the club went up a fair amount because of the new ball park. Moreover, Lindner got to brand the place with the Great American name. I suspect he probably made money on the deal and one of the pieces of that equation was to keep the payroll low and break even year to year (maybe that's what you meant, Rem). To me it always seemed his strategy was to buy and hold over the short term, rather than to treat the club as a long term investment. Otherwise, I would have expected to see him invest in building a stronger club, from the farm to the major league level and to repair the damage done by the neglect of the system that occurred during the Marge years.

I remain optimistic that Castellini has a longer term view of his tenure as controlling partner. He talks the talk of a guy who wants to build a stronger franchise, rather than reaping a short term gain. I truly hope he follows through with it.

remdog
08-21-2007, 12:35 PM
Sundeck:

I was referring to the yearly operations.

As far as Castellini goes, he has said that he wants to win now. So far, not so good. If he spends some money to get this team into the playoffs consistantly his long-term will be very, very sweet.

Rem

Aronchis
08-21-2007, 12:37 PM
I wonder about that. My guess is that he came out ahead. I think he paid around $70 million for controlling interest in the club. The purchase by Castellini was complicated- didn't he and his partners buy 75% (more than Lindner owned)?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the value of the club went up a fair amount because of the new ball park. Moreover, Lindner got to brand the place with the Great American name. I suspect he probably made money on the deal and one of the pieces of that equation was to keep the payroll low and break even year to year (maybe that's what you meant, Rem). To me it always seemed his strategy was to buy and hold over the short term, rather than to treat the club as a long term investment. Otherwise, I would have expected to see him invest in building a stronger club, from the farm to the major league level and to repair the damage done by the neglect of the system that occurred during the Marge years.

I remain optimistic that Castellini has a longer term view of his tenure as controlling partner. He talks the talk of a guy who wants to build a stronger franchise, rather than reaping a short term gain. I truly hope he follows through with it.

Except the Reds took operational losses during his tenure and he also worked inside the Limited partner agreement. He was nothing more than a stopgap COO and why he took a short term view of the Reds. From his view and his Limited partners, it was as they were about ready to bow out. He may have made money for the Limited partners, but that was probably on the sale, not much during the tenure.

Though in 2004 the Reds laid the international foundations that have led to a more active organization overseas. I have been hoping majority Bob would continue to expand this process and fiscally contribute more to the budgets but so far, he has not responded.

SunDeck
08-21-2007, 01:20 PM
I agree with you both- his talk hasn't been matched by any real moves. Maybe it will- I hope.

And yes, I was referring to the fact that money was made on the sale of the club, not on a year to year operational basis. Lindner was clearly just trying to keep from losing money until he and the partners could sell the club.

Matt700wlw
08-21-2007, 03:37 PM
Coutlangus is down there as well.

I'd bring him up for Guardado (DL) and from there, I'm not sure :D

Johnny Footstool
08-21-2007, 05:02 PM
This one's for you, RichRed:

http://www.seemovie.net/seemovie/UploadFile/20056251700140.jpg

RedLegSuperStar
08-21-2007, 05:10 PM
C. Trent -


Prior to tonight's game the Reds selected from Class AAA Louisville the contract of RHP Kirk Saarloos and optioned to Louisville LHP Phil Dumatrait.

Also, RHP Victor Santos, who was designated for assignment on Saturday, cleared waivers and was outrighted to Louisville.

Dumatrait went 0-2, 14.18 in his 4 starts for the Reds.

Santos went 1-4, 5.14 in 32 relief appearances for the Reds.