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Dunner44
08-21-2007, 12:17 PM
I've noticed looking at the minor league stat sheets that Joey Votto is getting more and more time at LF for the Bats. I'm sure some of that is so Cantu had a place to play while he was down there, but I wonder if it has implications for next year as well.

It now looks like the plan all along was to have Cantu replace Conine as the right handed half of the 1B platoon/ first right hander off the bench. Krivsky said the deal with the Mets was done long ago, they were just waiting on an open roster spot.

Now with Hatteberg hitting over .300 and being a solid guy on the team, its hard to imagine the Reds not picking up his 1.85 million option for next year. He's cheap and very effective in a platoon role. But where does that leave Votto? Votto is also a lefty, which means platooning with Hatteberg is just foolish. This leads me to wonder if Votto will instead be the starting left fielder for the Reds in 2008? No one seems anxious to re-up Dunn. We all see the writing on the wall, he's as good as gone, either traded after his option has been picked up or allowed to go for 2 compensational draft picks.

With the Reds keeping the payroll below 70 million, would Votto be a better choice in LF than a high priced free agent, allowing the club to pursue pitching, pitching and more pitching (and right handed power?). It'll be interesting to see how many more games Votto plays in LF now that Cantu is gone... That should tell you right there how the Reds are leaning for next year.

ChatterRed
08-21-2007, 12:20 PM
I think Votto should be up here now being evaluated for next season. He is a big part of the puzzle for next season, so why wait? If he doesn't have what it takes, we need to know that.

Dunner44
08-21-2007, 12:23 PM
I think Votto should be up here now being evaluated for next season. He is a big part of the puzzle for next season, so why wait? If he doesn't have what it takes, we need to know that.

But, if they'd like him to be in LF (this is my pet thoery) it also makes sense to give him some more innings in the outfield in Lousiville, innings he won't get at the big league level. He'd be fighting with Cantu and Hatte at first and Hopper and Hamilton in the OF. Give him a couple more weeks to play the field and then call him up in sept.

AmarilloRed
08-21-2007, 07:35 PM
I am one who does think the Reds will decline Hatteberg's option if the choice is between Votto and Hatteberg. I simply think Votto would be more productive offensively than Hatteberg at first base. I would be very disappointed if they chose Hatteberg over Votto at first base.

Chi-Town Red
08-21-2007, 07:42 PM
Votto is the future. Whatever has to be done to get him to the Reds i say do already.

TheOnlyRedsFan
08-21-2007, 08:58 PM
I think Votto should be up here now being evaluated for next season. He is a big part of the puzzle for next season, so why wait? If he doesn't have what it takes, we need to know that.

Exactly. All I hear about on TV and radio is that right now, it's audition time for next year but what could be the key part of next year isn't up here doing anything yet. He is tearing up AAA and I think he is ready.

redsfanmia
08-21-2007, 09:33 PM
Votto is the future. Whatever has to be done to get him to the Reds i say do already.

I think we on Redszone think that Votto is the future but I am beggining to think the front office doesnt think that he is the future/:confused:

AmarilloRed
08-21-2007, 11:39 PM
I think we on Redszone think that Votto is the future but I am beginning to think the front office doesnt think that he is the future/:confused:

What makes you think that? From all I have heard they are trying to make waiver deals to clear room on the roster for him. One of the pivotal signs as to when we will see him will happen in the off-season. If Hatteberg and Dunn have their options picked up next year, Votto will spend next year in AAA.

Degenerate39
08-21-2007, 11:43 PM
Votto is the future but he's the future at first base

AmarilloRed
08-21-2007, 11:51 PM
Votto is the future but he's the future at first base

So you think the Reds will decline Hatteberg's option?

BLEEDS
08-22-2007, 12:01 AM
So you think the Reds will decline Hatteberg's option?

Finally me and degenerate agree on something...

Votto should be at first base. We want to IMPROVE as a TEAM, so we want to UPGRADE our power at 1B.

Now, SOME people will say that's a way to Make Up for losing Adam Dunn - putting Votto at 1B, and putting say Norris Hopper as the everyday LF-er. THAT is how you DOWNGRADE your team as a whole.

We should pick up Adam Dunn's option for next year. Decline Hattebergs, and put Votto at 1B. Votto is also about $1.3M cheaper than Hatteberg, so that $2.5M raise for Dunn doesn't look so bad.

THEN, you look at 2009 - Griffey probably isn't worth $16.5M, so you give him his $4M buyout, and hope Jay Bruce is ready to play.

Problem then is, who replaces Dunn (again)? Same scenario, different year. IF you sign Dunn Long-Term, you are theoretically looking at having your ENTIRE starting OF full of lefties if you count Josh Hamilton who has to play every day when he's healthy.

Interesting off-seasons to say the least.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Degenerate39
08-22-2007, 12:04 AM
Finally me and degenerate agree on something...

Votto should be at first base. We want to IMPROVE as a TEAM, so we want to UPGRADE our power at 1B.

Now, SOME people will say that's a way to Make Up for losing Adam Dunn - putting Votto at 1B, and putting say Norris Hopper as the everyday LF-er. THAT is how you DOWNGRADE your team as a whole.

We should pick up Adam Dunn's option for next year. Decline Hattebergs, and put Votto at 1B. Votto is also about $1.3M cheaper than Hatteberg, so that $2.5M raise for Dunn doesn't look so bad.

THEN, you look at 2009 - Griffey probably isn't worth $16.5M, so you give him his $4M buyout, and hope Jay Bruce is ready to play.

Problem then is, who replaces Dunn (again)? Same scenario, different year. IF you sign Dunn Long-Term, you are theoretically looking at having your ENTIRE starting OF full of lefties if you count Josh Hamilton who has to play every day when he's healthy.

Interesting off-seasons to say the least.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Agree with all of this Bleeds. Hatte is a short term answer at first base. Votto is a long term answer at first base. Easy as that.

AmarilloRed
08-22-2007, 12:24 AM
I agree with the two of you. From all I have heard, Votto is a good player who can hit the ball to all fields. I really hope the two of you are correct and we see both Votto and Cantu play first next year. So with it clear we need to clear Hatteberg to have Votto at first, would you seek a waiver deal for Hatteberg? If he is ot going to be here next year, it would be best to trade him for the best prospects we can and call Votto up as soon as the trade is done. I would hope the Reds are doing that right now. I would like the Reds to try and trade Hatteberg to a playoff team where his experience might help them.

It may be that Reds management doesn't agree with us. C Trent Rosecrans said this yesterday. "It looks like the Reds will have Hatteberg around for another year. The Reds brass is not high on Votto. They think he is a AAAA player" I really hope his sources are wrong. That would be a monumental mistake by Reds management

tbball10
08-22-2007, 12:39 AM
if the reds can get some quality arms in return for griffey and dunn, then they should trade them both, platoon cantu and hatteberg at 1st, and start bruce, hamilton and votto from right to left in the outfield.

this puts a solid, cheap team on the field, that will only get better, and upgrades our pitching staff greatly.

BLEEDS
08-22-2007, 12:51 AM
I agree with the two of you. From all I have heard, Votto is a good player who can hit the ball to all fields. I really hope the two of you are correct and we see both Votto and Cantu play first next year. So with it clear we need to clear Hatteberg to have Votto at first, would you seek a waiver deal for Hatteberg? If he is ot going to be here next year, it would be best to trade him for the best prospects we can and call Votto up as soon as the trade is done. I would hope the Reds are doing that right now. I would like the Reds to try and trade Hatteberg to a playoff team where his experience might help them.

It may be that Reds management doesn't agree with us. C Trent Rosecrans said this yesterday. "It looks like the Reds will have Hatteberg around for another year. The Reds brass is not high on Votto. They think he is a AAAA player" I really hope his sources are wrong. That would be a monumental mistake by Reds management

I don't see how that could be the case. Dude was in the AAA All -Star game wasn't he? He's on the top 10's of every Publication as a no-miss prospect, etc, etc...

Hatteberg was sent through waivers, but was claimed and then withdrawn, so they obviously were TRYING to trade him. I think that is a ploy to get the word out for trying to trade Hatteberg in the off-season. He's WAY too old to keep around, just because he can hit at/near .300. He's got no power, and you need that from your corner infielders, especially 1b. We haven't had that since Sean Casey hit 20 HRs like 10 years ago...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

AmarilloRed
08-22-2007, 01:02 AM
I really hope you are right, BLEEDS.

BLEEDS
08-22-2007, 01:17 AM
if the reds can get some quality arms in return for griffey and dunn, then they should trade them both.

I think they tried that already, didn't work.

Bruce isn't ready for 2008, but he is/should be slated as Junior's replacement after he hits his 600th HR next year.

IFF our ownership is SERIOUS about winning, they'll extend Dunn, put Votto at 1B, and play Dunn, Hamilton/Freel, and Griffey in the OF from Left to Right next year.

They should also do their damndest to TRADE Stanton and Freel (who could be replaced by Hopper/Kepp as the Utility/OF guy) and let the old "vets" like Hatteberg, Guardado, etc, go off into the sunset.

My lineup for 2008:

Hamilton/Freel/Hopper - CF
Phillips - 2B - he is best served up in the lineup where he can show some patience with a guy on, and use his speed for SB's if he can get on if the lead-off guy can't get on
Jr - RF
Dunn - LF - needs to be up more in the lineup to take advantage of his OBP and have better hitters behind him as well
EE - 3B not the best option, but gives him more AB's with runners on
Votto - 1B - start him here an move him up as he progresses
Gonzalez - SS - low OBP guy belongs here
Ross/Valentin - can't see us cutting ties with Valentin just yet

Bench:
Keppinger - who gets the Super Utility role and starts 2-3 times a week. play him versus lefties and spot starts/relief for Phillips/EE/Gonzo
Cantu - platoon him at 1B versus lefties for Votto
Hopper/Freel - they get the spot starts in the OF for the 3 starting lefties (Dunn/Hamilton/Jr)

2009 - replace Junior with Bruce.
Then, you've got no position players over 30 on your team other than Freel (33 in Mar) and Gonzalez (32 in Feb, and in his last year), and Ross (32 in Mar) - and if you signed Valentin (his contract would be up). Nice, huh?
And, they're all cheap other than Gonzalez, who'll be in his last year making all of less than $6M, the only guy due to make over $5M that year - not counting Dunn of course.


PEACE

-BLEEDS

redsfanmia
08-22-2007, 08:43 AM
What makes you think that? From all I have heard they are trying to make waiver deals to clear room on the roster for him. One of the pivotal signs as to when we will see him will happen in the off-season. If Hatteberg and Dunn have their options picked up next year, Votto will spend next year in AAA.

He is 23+ years old and they didnt trade Hatteberg or Dunn to clear him a spot on the roster. There is even talk of picking up Hatteberg's option next year so why would we need yet another left handed hitting first baseman/corner outfielder?

RedLegsToday
08-22-2007, 09:10 AM
Votto was born 9/10/1983. I'm pretty sure that makes him less than 25+