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AmarilloRed
08-22-2007, 12:17 AM
I thought I would create this thread since we have such weakness in the back end of our starting rotation. I will list the pitchers, their ERA, and their W-L this year. This list is taken from SI.com.

1.Schilling 7-5 4.25

2. Clemens 5-5 3.92

3.Carlos Silva 9-12 4.17

4. Jeff Weaver 5-10 5.57

5. Bartolo Colon 6-6 6.72

6. Randy Wolf 9-6 4.73

7. Livan Hernandez 9-7 4.86

8. Freddy Garcia 1-5 5.90

9.Jason Jennings 2-8 6.16

10.Rodrigo Lopez 5-4 4.42

11. Kenny Rogers 3-2 5.23

12. Jon Lieber 3-6 4.73

13. Matt Clement DNP

14. Eric Milton N/A

15. Josh Fogg 7-8 5.82

I simply recreated this thread from a similar one on ORG, so let's have a similar discussion on the merits (or lack thereof) of next year's FA starting pitchers

mroby85
08-22-2007, 12:21 AM
wow, thats not a very impressive group, schilling and clemens are the best, but they're too old. i don't even know if i would want any of those guys.

nmculbreth
08-22-2007, 12:40 AM
This list just reinforces the need to build from within and focus on the long term.

BLEEDS
08-22-2007, 12:43 AM
Yeah, that list really sucks. I used to like Randy Wolf when he was with the Phillies, before his arm almost fell off...

All I can see now is shades of Eric Milton, who for some ungodly reason is actually listed as the 14th best FA SP available:runaway::runaway:

PEACE

-BLEEDS

mroby85
08-22-2007, 12:45 AM
is it just me or is jeff weaver on this list every year?
the only ones i would even find tempting just for 1 year deals to contend would be clemens or schilling, and neither one would sign with cincinnati.

Degenerate39
08-22-2007, 12:50 AM
So everyone wants to get rid of Dunn to pick up one of these guys? There can't be a guy on that list that will help this team more than Dunn.

AmarilloRed
08-22-2007, 12:56 AM
It just points out how weak the SP free agent market is. However, I could see us giving one of these pitchers a 1 year deal until Cueto is ready. I suppose we need to consider if we would get better play from a FA or from Belisle.

Degenerate39
08-22-2007, 12:57 AM
It just points out how weak the SP free agent market is. However, I could see us giving one of these pitchers a 1 year deal until Cueto is ready. I suppose we need to consider if we would get better play from a FA or from Belisle.

It would probably be Silva because you know how Wayne loves those Twins

mroby85
08-22-2007, 12:58 AM
belisle sucks in my opinion, he shows flashes, but he can't seem to consistently put a season together. i'm personally tired of his act, and would rather give someone else a shot. anyone think homer bailey would be a possibility by next season?

Degenerate39
08-22-2007, 01:01 AM
belisle sucks in my opinion, he shows flashes, but he can't seem to consistently put a season together. i'm personally tired of his act, and would rather give someone else a shot. anyone think homer bailey would be a possibility by next season?

I think he has to be really. The Reds won't last another season with a rotation of Harang, Arroyo, Livingston, ?, ?. Hopefully Homer does well in the minors the rest of the year and trains hard in the offseason.

jmac
08-22-2007, 01:34 AM
It would probably be Silva because you know how Wayne loves those Twins

Actually,from that group Silva might be decent if him and Dunn could bury the hatchet ( if Dunner's back)

Muggerd
08-22-2007, 05:56 AM
Id be interested in Schilling, Garcia, Lieber and Clement if any can get healthy :dunno:

TheOnlyRedsFan
08-22-2007, 07:12 AM
Actually,from that group Silva might be decent if him and Dunn could bury the hatchet ( if Dunner's back)

bury the hatchet
what happened between them?

ChatterRed
08-22-2007, 10:48 AM
I thought I would create this thread since we have such weakness in the back end of our starting rotation. I will list the pitchers, their ERA, and their W-L this year. This list is taken from SI.com.

1.Schilling 7-5 4.25

2. Clemens 5-5 3.92

3.Carlos Silva 9-12 4.17

4. Jeff Weaver 5-10 5.57

5. Bartolo Colon 6-6 6.72

6. Randy Wolf 9-6 4.73

7. Livan Hernandez 9-7 4.86

8. Freddy Garcia 1-5 5.90

9.Jason Jennings 2-8 6.16

10.Rodrigo Lopez 5-4 4.42

11. Kenny Rogers 3-2 5.23

12. Jon Lieber 3-6 4.73

13. Matt Clement DNP

14. Eric Milton N/A

15. Josh Fogg 7-8 5.82

I simply recreated this thread from a similar one on ORG, so let's have a similar discussion on the merits (or lack thereof) of next year's FA starting pitchers

Just say no! ;)

HokieRed
08-22-2007, 10:50 AM
Silva actually looks like the best of the lot. Should Lohse be on the list?

Orenda
08-22-2007, 10:59 AM
Silva actually looks like the best of the lot. Should Lohse be on the list?

Over Milton yes.

jmac
08-22-2007, 11:03 AM
bury the hatchet
what happened between them?

Several years ago, the reds were drubbing the phils like 12-0 and Silva drilled Dunn who charged the mound and was tackled by Leiberthal. As far as skirmishes , that one was pretty good.

NeilHamburger
08-22-2007, 11:36 AM
I would take a low risk flier on Lieber if he would come here, other than that Silva is the only one who would interest me.

Mitri
08-22-2007, 11:45 AM
I wouldn't mind making a run at Paul Byrd for a year or two. He's looked good this year and has been pretty dependable throughout his career. Could be had at 7-8 mil a year too.

BLEEDS
08-22-2007, 12:14 PM
Silva would be good, but is he just a one-year wonder - wonder what year is the "real" him, 2007 or 2006 ?!

I'd take a flyer on Freddy Garcia. Always liked him and he has a career ERA of just over 4.0 all but one year in the AL, and a WHIP of 1.30.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

bigredbunter
08-22-2007, 12:35 PM
No one's high on Colon? Think maybe he would sign a below value contract that tacks on a few years??

Orenda
08-22-2007, 12:43 PM
Silva would be good, but is he just a one-year wonder - wonder what year is the "real" him, 2007 or 2006 ?!

I'd take a flyer on Freddy Garcia. Always liked him and he has a career ERA of just over 4.0 all but one year in the AL, and a WHIP of 1.30.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Silva has had good seasons in the past. gets grounballs, might be able to succeed in cincinnati. Looking at that list, he might make more than he should

jmac
08-22-2007, 12:47 PM
Silva has had good seasons in the past. gets grounballs, might be able to succeed in cincinnati. Looking at that list, he might make more than he should

Problem is, anymore most FA will make more than they should so you either have to jump in, dont move, or get what you need by other means.

Orenda
08-22-2007, 12:59 PM
I got to see Colon pitch against Bailey when the Angels came to town. I went against my claim I wouldn't buy a ticket until Narron and Stanton were gone. It was a business day special and I had the day off. The chance to see Homer and the Angels was too much. Homer pitched well before he was left in a little long walked two batters and NARRON promptly called upon Majewski to cough up run after run. Colon pitched ok, he was consistently sitting around 93-94 with the heater. Gave up a homer to Jr i believe though. Im always interested in a guy a couple years removed from a 20 win season, but the fact that he has had injury issues, higher salary expectations, and that this is Cincinnati makes me think its not a fit for him or the reds.

JLB5
08-22-2007, 01:08 PM
There isn't one guy on that list I'd sign to a long term deal. I've never seen a bigger list of has-beens and never-will-bes. If the Reds feel they need a stop gap, I'd rather they ink someone like Josh Fogg to a 1 year deal. At least he is durable and consistent and would come at a reasonable price. But they are likely better off trying to swing a trade, plucking someone off the waiver wire (ala Livingston), or just sucking it up for another year of Bailey/Belisle/Ramirez/Livingston/Dumatrait et al. Maybe Wayne can work his rule 5 magic this offseason and find a SP.

muethibp
08-22-2007, 01:39 PM
I'd rather have Kyle Lohse than almost all of those guys (excluding Schilling and Clemens who might not sign with the Reds for $30MM a year).

Doro
08-22-2007, 01:53 PM
I would take Belise over most the guys on that list that we have a realistic chance of signing. Not to mention you'll have to overpay for all and any of those pitchers.

I(heart)Freel
08-22-2007, 01:58 PM
So everyone wants to get rid of Dunn to pick up one of these guys? There can't be a guy on that list that will help this team more than Dunn.

I actually think "everyone" was pushing harder to use Dunn's salary on bullpen (specifically closer) help, considering that is/was the team's biggest weakness.

Muggerd
08-22-2007, 02:12 PM
No one was pushing for Dunns money to be spent on overpriced crap, with the dwindling FA market more people are saying you have to pick up the option because there is no other options.

No one is saying get freddy garcia for 15 million a year. Now if you want to give him a couple year deal for a reasonable amount thats one thing but if we are overpaying for these guys and it cuts into our future options of signing people its another thing.

Many fans are saying spend money to fill holes if they are solid players. Not spend money just to spend money and then blame the budget for not going after better free agents later. (i.e. Milton Deal)

BEETTLEBUG
08-22-2007, 02:21 PM
Silva, Lopez, Lieber, Garcia,or Fogg. Maybe Hernandez if it was just for two years.

Screwball
08-22-2007, 03:48 PM
I actually think "everyone" was pushing harder to use Dunn's salary on bullpen (specifically closer) help, considering that is/was the team's biggest weakness.

True, but starting pitching is a very close 2nd. And it doesn't look like any help is going to come via free agency.

AmarilloRed
08-22-2007, 05:13 PM
I believe most of these pitchers will be signed to 1 year dals; the best will get 2. All we really need is 1 or 2 FA for 1-2 years until Bailey and Cueto are ready.