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flyer85
08-22-2007, 12:12 PM
Poisitonal Marginal Lineup Value is an interesting stat because if takes into account the offensive contribution relative to a position.


MLV is an estimate of the additional number of runs a given player will contribute to a lineup that otherwise consists of average offensive performers.


Positional MLV. Runs contributed by a batter beyond what an average player at the same position would produce in a team of otherwise league-average hitters.

So even though guys may be doing OK in terms of an "average player", they don't stack up so well when the position is taken into account. Obviously offensive production at SS is more valuable than at 1B, etc.


Player MLV pMLV VORP
Adam Dunn 29.5 20.7 36.8
Ken Griffey Jr. 26.4 17.2 32.8
Jeff Keppinger 13.6 13.6 16.9
Josh Hamilton 14.9 13.0 20.1
Scott Hatteberg 15.6 8.4 21.5
B Phillips 7.1 5.4 24.0
Alex Gonzalez 3.4 4.0 13.7
Javier Valentin 0.3 3.9 6.6
Norris Hopper 1.1 -0.2 4.9
Jeff Conine -2.1 -5.8 3.2
David Ross -13.0 -7.8 -2.1
E Encarnacion -5.3 -9.5 4.3
Ryan Freel -11.0 -12.7 -4.7

reds really wasted a lot of ABs on certain players(especially Conine and Freel). At least with EE there is a developmental aspect.

nate
08-22-2007, 12:24 PM
Which position is Keppinger's pMLV calculated for?

LincolnparkRed
08-22-2007, 12:26 PM
Interesting that Ross is so low. I thought his homers would counteract his lack of batting average, at least for his position.

Sea Ray
08-22-2007, 12:27 PM
What's VORP?

RedsManRick
08-22-2007, 12:30 PM
VORP: Value Over Replacement Player is the number of runs contributed beyond what a replacement level player would contribute if given the same percentage of team plate appearances

http://www.stathead.com/bbeng/woolner/vorpdescnew.htm

Sea Ray
08-22-2007, 12:32 PM
VORP: Value Over Replacement Player is the number of runs contributed beyond what a replacement level player would contribute if given the same percentage of team plate appearances

http://www.stathead.com/bbeng/woolner/vorpdescnew.htm

OK, how does that differ from MLV?

BRM
08-22-2007, 12:35 PM
So, does MLV basically tell me how much above or below "league average" a player is?

flyer85
08-22-2007, 12:36 PM
Which position is Keppinger's pMLV calculated for?I would think it is a combination

flyer85
08-22-2007, 12:37 PM
OK, how does that differ from MLV?IIRC, rate versus counting.

RedsManRick
08-22-2007, 12:44 PM
Also, pMLV is relative to average whereas VORP is versus replacement. BP has it in their custom stats as a per game measurement. Here are 3B for all of baseball.



Rank Year Player Pos PA MLVr PMLVr RPMLVr VORPr MLV
1. 2007 Miguel Cabrera 3b 525 .475 0.431 0.55526 0.553 57.3
2. 2007 Ryan Braun 3b 345 .470 0.426 0.55021 0.558 37.9
3. 2007 Chipper Jones 3b 456 .427 0.384 0.50788 0.516 44.7
4. 2007 David Wright 3b 542 .301 0.257 0.38119 0.427 37.6
5. 2007 Aramis Ramirez 3b 408 .274 0.231 0.35463 0.355 25.9
6. 2007 Mike Lamb 3b 307 .126 0.091 0.20878 0.209 8.9
7. 2007 Wilson Betemit 3b 192 .095 0.088 0.18765 0.188 4.2
8. 2007 Mark Reynolds 3b 290 .084 0.045 0.16579 0.157 5.8
9. 2007 Garrett Atkins 3b 524 .077 0.032 0.15719 0.160 9.2
10. 2007 Ryan Zimmerman 3b 558 .073 0.028 0.15295 0.162 9.6
11. 2007 Chad Tracy 3b 259 .047 0.002 0.12723 0.127 2.9
12. 2007 Tony Abreu 3b 128 .015 -0.008 0.1066 0.107 0.4
13. 2007 Jose Bautista 3b 452 -.001 -0.048 0.07646 0.074 -0.1
14. 2007 Scott Rolen 3b 418 -.008 -0.052 0.07264 0.070 -0.7
15. 2007 Edwin Encarnaci 3b 421 -.055 -0.098 0.02555 0.044 -5.3
16. 2007 Pedro Feliz 3b 470 -.081 -0.126 -0.00095 -0.009 -8.8
17. 2007 Morgan Ensberg 3b 259 -.090 -0.114 -0.0034 -0.013 -5.4
18. 2007 Kevin Kouzmanof 3b 375 -.091 -0.129 -0.0085 -0.005 -7.9
19. 2007 Wes Helms 3b 277 -.123 -0.157 -0.03948 -0.039 -7.6
20. 2007 Craig Counsell 3b 283 -.179 -0.182 -0.07305 -0.073 -11.9
21. 2007 Jose Castillo 3b 193 -.206 -0.214 -0.10613 -0.106 -9.3
22. 2007 Abraham Nunez 3b 238 -.208 -0.231 -0.11958 -0.114 -11.1
23. 2007 Alberto Callasp 3b 137 -.403 -0.426 -0.31274 -0.331 -13.2

Here are NL 3B rankings with some variations of MLV:

MLV: Marginal Lineup Value. MLV is an estimate of the additional number of runs a given player will contribute to a lineup that otherwise consists of average offensive performers.
MLVr: MLV rate (per game)
PMLVr: Positional MLV rate (per game)
RPMLVr: Replacement level MLV rate (per game)
VORPr: VORP rate (per game)

The only real difference between RPMLVr and VORPr is baserunning. VORP counts it. MLV doesn't.

So, EE is below average but above replacement. But he's been the worst above replacement 3B in the NL this year.

Sea Ray
08-22-2007, 02:46 PM
What do they define as replacement? I would assume it would be average but apparently not. How do determine what replacement stats are?

RedsManRick
08-22-2007, 03:10 PM
What do they define as replacement? I would assume it would be average but apparently not. How do determine what replacement stats are?

Take a gander at the link I posted or just google VORP. Lots of explanations floating around out there.

Sea Ray
08-22-2007, 03:46 PM
Take a gander at the link I posted or just google VORP. Lots of explanations floating around out there.

I read your link and that guy has way too much time on his hands...

He defines replacement level as 70 pts less than average for whatever reason. OK

NDRed
08-23-2007, 01:11 AM
Makes Josh Hamilton all that more amazing.

Rojo
08-23-2007, 01:23 AM
Can't players get unfairly dinged for playing a position with a wealth of talent? I mean a half dozen great players at a position will jack up the "average".

RedsManRick
08-23-2007, 01:34 AM
Absolutely Rojo, but it does give you some frame of reference. If there are 10 great 3B, than theorhetically it should be easier to get a decent one, because there are fewer teams you are competing against for them.