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View Full Version : Gonzo's back...Belhorn's out



Matt700wlw
08-22-2007, 04:31 PM
Today the Reds reinstated from the bereavement list SS Alex Gonzalez and outrighted to Louisville IF Mark Bellhorn.

smith288
08-22-2007, 04:46 PM
Why cant we just DFA Bellhorn?

Matt700wlw
08-22-2007, 04:47 PM
Why cant we just DFA Bellhorn?

His .100 BA is huge. :)

Sea Ray
08-22-2007, 04:49 PM
Rather than keep bringing Gonzo back and forth, how 'bout just letting him have the rest of the season to deal with his son and the team will go on w/o him for the rest of 2007?

KronoRed
08-22-2007, 04:52 PM
I guess they are letting him call the shots on it.

Heath
08-22-2007, 04:53 PM
His .100 BA is huge. :)

Only in Bizzaro Baseball World. Bellhorn would be MVP.

Unassisted
08-22-2007, 04:55 PM
Rather than keep bringing Gonzo back and forth, how 'bout just letting him have the rest of the season to deal with his son and the team will go on w/o him for the rest of 2007? While I agree with the notion from a sentimental standpoint, that would make Keppinger the starter and Bellhorn the main backup at SS. That'd be a nightmare if Kepp was out of the lineup for some reason.

PuffyPig
08-22-2007, 04:56 PM
Why cant we just DFA Bellhorn?


"DFA" means designated for assignment. It does not mean release. Often, players are sent to the minors after being DFA'ed.

Sea Ray
08-22-2007, 04:59 PM
While I agree with the notion from a sentimental standpoint, that would make Keppinger the starter and Bellhorn the main backup at SS. That'd be a nightmare if Kepp was out of the lineup for some reason.

You're looking at it from the Reds perspective and they're not in any pennant race. As a Reds fan I'm willing to stomach Bellhorn while giving Gonzo and his family "a break."

Heath
08-22-2007, 05:00 PM
I have a feeling that Keppinger is getting some starts at 3rd.

RichRed
08-22-2007, 05:05 PM
Rather than keep bringing Gonzo back and forth, how 'bout just letting him have the rest of the season to deal with his son and the team will go on w/o him for the rest of 2007?

We've got a division to win!

KronoRed
08-22-2007, 05:22 PM
We've got a division to win!

82-80 here we come :cool:

Matt700wlw
08-22-2007, 05:29 PM
I have a feeling that Keppinger is getting some starts at 3rd.

Probably. Ideally, the Reds should have told Gonzo to take the next 6 weeks off to be with the family....that way Edwin and Keppinger can get a look. Edwin has started to come around a bit, although, I don't think he should play over Keppinger right now, if it comes down to it.

I like Gonzo, but he's already here next season...contractually.

Strikes Out Looking
08-22-2007, 05:37 PM
Probably. Ideally, the Reds should have told Gonzo to take the next 6 weeks off to be with the family....that way Edwin and Keppinger can get a look. Edwin has started to come around a bit, although, I don't think he should play over Keppinger right now, if it comes down to it.

I like Gonzo, but he's already here next season...contractually.

They may have told him that, but he may want to play. Many times when someone is going through something like he is, it is helpful to try to do as much of your normal life as possible.

As to Keppinger, we'll I'll let you guys (and WK) sort out where he plays in '08.

Matt700wlw
08-22-2007, 05:39 PM
They may have told him that, but he may want to play. Many times when someone is going through something like he is, it is helpful to try to do as much of your normal life as possible.



That could be, also...touchy situation, no doubt.

flyer85
08-22-2007, 05:53 PM
I really don't think the Reds see Keppinger as a long term answer as a SS. They threw a lot of cash at Gonzo and he will likely remain the starting SS for quite some time. I doubt anyone else wants that contract.

BRM
08-22-2007, 05:57 PM
I really don't think the Reds see Keppinger as a long term answer as a SS. They threw a lot of cash at Gonzo and he will likely remain the starting SS for quite some time. I doubt anyone else wants that contract.

I agree with you. I do think they like Keppinger's game, a lot. It will be interesting to see what they decide his role is for next year. Will they trade EE and give him 3B? Do they leave him on the bench as the primary reserve infielder?

flyer85
08-22-2007, 06:03 PM
Will they trade EE and give him 3B? Do they leave him on the bench as the primary reserve infielder?Who knows. Probably depends on whether WK is still around. While WK has shown an ability to bring in some talent for minimal cost(not talking in terms of $$), he has missed the target on being able to build the team. His moves seem to be more just a conglomeration of individual transactions that a grand plan to increase the talent level and overall competitiveness of the team. For his two seasons he has basically tread in the water(certainly in terms of run differential) from when DanO left.

nate
08-22-2007, 06:09 PM
Who knows. Probably depends on whether WK is still around. While WK has shown an ability to bring in some talent for minimal cost(not talking in terms of $$), he has missed the target on being able to build the team. His moves seem to be more just a conglomeration of individual transactions that a grand plan to increase the talent level and overall competitiveness of the team. For his two seasons he has basically tread in the water(certainly in terms of run differential) from when DanO left.

One word would make us agree:


he has missed the target on being able to quickly build the team

I think the team is setup to be better next year and better still in 2009. Free agency and trades will, of course, shape this but I think a good organizational core is being built under Wayne's watch.

Reds1
08-22-2007, 06:17 PM
2009 could be sweet if the pitching develops. It's all about pitching holding us down. Sooooo glad Bellhorn is gone. I have a DVR and just FF his AB becuase he always gets out. We have many decisions for next year. Dunn, EE, Kepp., Votto Those 4 can't all play. I say Dunn will be gone if we can get a SP2 or 3 or a closer+. If not he will stay. I have mixed emotions on Dunn - just like the board does. Some days I'm like trade him and some days I think we can't. Long-term I hope Bruce is the guy, but Griffey can't play forever. Kepp in LF or RF, Votto. Ah, I'm getting a head-ache. :)

flyer85
08-22-2007, 06:30 PM
I think the team is setup to be better next year and better still in 2009. Free agency and trades will, of course, shape this but I think a good organizational core is being built under Wayne's watch.maybe, hard to say. But he has always talked about winning now.

The huge majority of the Reds offensive success is tied up in 4 players(Dunn, Jr, Hamilton and Hatty). Two are 38(or soon to be), one is likely leaving and the other is one mistake away from being gone for a long time.

If 2009 is to be significantly better WK must figure out how to sustain the offense without those four while substantially upgrading the pitching.

OldXOhio
08-22-2007, 07:30 PM
Two are 38(or soon to be), one is likely leaving and the other is one mistake away from being gone for a long time.



Scott Hatteberg has been very productive, but I don't know if I believe the notion that the Reds would fall on hard times without him. And don't get me wrong, I like SH and think he's been a very good pick up for this team. I just don't think he's irreplaceable.

As for the Hamilton/mistake comment, that's a reach just to help make a point, don't ya think?

PuffyPig
08-22-2007, 07:40 PM
I really don't think the Reds see Keppinger as a long term answer as a SS. They threw a lot of cash at Gonzo and he will likely remain the starting SS for quite some time. I doubt anyone else wants that contract.

Gonzo is a pretty good fielding SS with an OPS approaching .800. His offense has been better outside of GABP. His contract would, IMO, not just be movable, but could be moved for good value.

There's little depth at SS on the FA market next year. And Gonzo's contract isn't particularly expensive for a SS.

flyer85
08-22-2007, 07:54 PM
but I don't know if I believe the notion that the Reds would fall on hard times without him. Didn't say that they would.

What I did say 1) he is one of the most productive offensive players on the team 2) His production will have to be replaced in the near future.

GAC
08-22-2007, 09:31 PM
I really don't think the Reds see Keppinger as a long term answer as a SS. They threw a lot of cash at Gonzo and he will likely remain the starting SS for quite some time. I doubt anyone else wants that contract.

We're paying Gonzo 3.5 Mil in '07, 4.6 in '08, and 5.3 in '09.

I really don't see where that is an exorbitant amount of money or a burdensome contract?

flyer85
08-22-2007, 09:49 PM
We're paying Gonzo 3.5 Mil in '07, 4.6 in '08, and 5.3 in '09.

I really don't see where that is an exorbitant amount of money or a burdensome contract?nor do I, just that I doubt someone else would likely take that contract.

OldXOhio
08-22-2007, 11:56 PM
What I did say...His production will have to be replaced in the near future.

and as you saw, my point was that I think he's replaceable.

flyer85
08-23-2007, 12:28 AM
and as you saw, my point was that I think he's replaceable.it certainly can be but it isn't a forgone conclusion.

GAC
08-23-2007, 09:02 AM
maybe, hard to say. But he has always talked about winning now.

The huge majority of the Reds offensive success is tied up in 4 players(Dunn, Jr, Hamilton and Hatty). Two are 38(or soon to be), one is likely leaving and the other is one mistake away from being gone for a long time.

If 2009 is to be significantly better WK must figure out how to sustain the offense without those four while substantially upgrading the pitching.

You left out Phillips. ;)

projected.....

30 Hrs 93 RBIs 32 SBs .277 BA .321 OB% .469 SLG%

nate
08-23-2007, 10:35 AM
maybe, hard to say. But he has always talked about winning now.

I've always taken that as "PR Crap".


The huge majority of the Reds offensive success is tied up in 4 players(Dunn, Jr, Hamilton and Hatty). Two are 38(or soon to be), one is likely leaving and the other is one mistake away from being gone for a long time.

I like Phillips, he's good and young and is useful in both halves of the inning.

I also like Keppinger, although we'll have to see if he can really sustain this torrid pace. His game is a nice contrast to what he currently have.

Bruce will be here soon enough. Maybe Votto too although I'm starting to think the Votto might be a decent trading chip used to acquire pitching. Then you can sent Cantu/Hatteberg or even Keppinger to man 1st. Or, just freaking resign Dunn, get him a Tom Emanski video and tell him he's gonna play first.


If 2009 is to be significantly better WK must figure out how to sustain the offense without those four while substantially upgrading the pitching.

High five!

smith288
08-23-2007, 10:53 AM
"DFA" means designated for assignment. It does not mean release. Often, players are sent to the minors after being DFA'ed.
I meant to say "give him his walking papers". I dont know his status in our org so I figure he was just on a shuttle to Louisville/Cincy. They should make a list that teams agree not to care about. Bellhorn should be the first on the DFA-BNC (Designated For Assignment Because Nobody Cares) list.

Sea Ray
08-23-2007, 11:33 AM
I meant to say "give him his walking papers". I dont know his status in our org so I figure he was just on a shuttle to Louisville/Cincy. They should make a list that teams agree not to care about. Bellhorn should be the first on the DFA-BNC (Designated For Assignment Because Nobody Cares) list.

1st on the list? Ricky Stone and Victor Santos might have something to say about that...;)

OldXOhio
08-23-2007, 03:09 PM
I've always taken that as "PR Crap".

Exactly. Besides, what's he supposed to say? "We're gonna suck for the next 3 years while we rebuild"? And is saying "We're gonna win now" that markedly different than saying "we're going to put as competitive a team on the field as we possibly can at this point in time"? In the end, I think we all know what he's doing and saying. Even the casual Reds fan can see this team isn't in position to win anything.


High five!

Puddy?