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Vada Pinson Fan
08-23-2007, 04:52 PM
One name at the position player side that intrigues me is Mike Lowell 3B. I've always liked his abilities.

Here's the link: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/03/2008_mlb_free_a.html

35 year old Armando Benitez (Closer) is there too but may be too pricey for the Reds.

I know we need pitching, both starting and relieving but I don't see much help because:


The pitcher has a team option
The pitcher is old (40+)
The player is already too expensive (Ex. Pettitte NY Yankees- Player Option of 16mm. Think he leaves the Yankees to go elsewhere? Uh, NO.Check out the link and let me know what you think for Major League Free Agent acquistions that just might (for the right reasons) be in the Reds plans.

Looks like another year of trades and hopeful Rule 5 acquisition(s).

AmarilloRed
08-23-2007, 05:03 PM
I would like to see us go after Carlos Silva at SP. He has a good ERA, and is fairly young. I think we might be able to get him for a fairly good price.

UGADaddy
08-23-2007, 06:28 PM
I still like Livan Hernendez as an innings eater. But I really don't see anyone on that list the Reds will be interested in (either due to age, money, or the fact that we simply don't have room for them). The only way I see pitching coming our way is via the trade.

Seeing Dunn on that list, however, begs the question: What are the odds we resign him or pick up his option?

GoReds33
08-23-2007, 07:11 PM
I would like to see a decent reliever for the sixth and seventh innings. I would like a veteran with a 3.5-4.0 era. I don't have a good feeling about this offseason. We may lose Dunn, and not get anybody in return.

Degenerate39
08-23-2007, 11:11 PM
I would like to see us go after Carlos Silva at SP. He has a good ERA, and is fairly young. I think we might be able to get him for a fairly good price.

Isn't his ERA 4+? Anywho he's a ground ball pitcher so he'd be my choice too.

AmarilloRed
08-23-2007, 11:19 PM
He has a 10-12 record with a 4.10 ERA. He has gone 167 2/3 innings already, but has given up 179 hits. He has only walked 31 and struck out 72. I would take a low 4 ERA from a back of the rotation starter. He has really cut down on the numbers of hits from last year. I think he gave up 246 hits last year.

ChatterRed
08-24-2007, 08:37 AM
How old is Silva?

If he's younger than 30, I'd love to sign him for our 4th or 5th starter. Maybe he's hitting his prime and coming into his best years based on what Amerillo said. Could be catching lightning in a bottle.

Muggerd
08-24-2007, 08:40 AM
How old is Silva?

If he's younger than 30, I'd love to sign him for our 4th or 5th starter. Maybe he's hitting his prime and coming into his best years based on what Amerillo said. Could be catching lightning in a bottle.

28

eastkyred
08-24-2007, 10:16 AM
I say no thanks to anyone on that list. Off season acquisitions need to be made via trade. All free agents get more money, and there is no one on that list worth overpaying for. I think the reds have some extra offensinve pieces that can be traded for pitching help. (Dunn, Freel, EE, Votto, Hatte, Griffey) I'm not saying I would trade all of these guys, but I would make them available and try to get pitching help by trading one or two of them. I think Freel is completely expendable, but I don't know what you could get out of him. I would try to move Dunn for a solid #2 or #3 to go with Harang and Arroyo and put Votto in LF.

Chris Sabowned
08-24-2007, 12:16 PM
Some people we could go after...

Pedro Feliz or Mike Lowell for 3b

Joel Pineiro or Kip Wells or Carlos Silva for rotation

Francisco Cordero or Scott Linebrink for bullpen

Muggerd
08-24-2007, 12:19 PM
Personally I wouldnt mind trying to sign Schilling for a bunch of reasons. His heath is a concern though.

Degenerate39
08-24-2007, 12:20 PM
Some people we could go after...

Pedro Feliz or Mike Lowell for 3b

Joel Pineiro or Kip Wells or Carlos Silva for rotation

Francisco Cordero or Scott Linebrink for bullpen

Don't they already have Edwin, Keppinger, and Cantu who can play third? In my opinion this is one area of free agency the Reds don't need.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
08-24-2007, 12:54 PM
Don't they already have Edwin, Keppinger, and Cantu who can play third? In my opinion this is one area of free agency the Reds don't need.Not sure about that, if this wasn't an area of need they wouldn't have 3 guys on the roster that can play that position. I know Cantu plays first, and Kepp plays all over but EE is in the 8th spot in the order on a team in the lower half of the league.

Degenerate39
08-24-2007, 01:51 PM
Not sure about that, if this wasn't an area of need they wouldn't have 3 guys on the roster that can play that position. I know Cantu plays first, and Kepp plays all over but EE is in the 8th spot in the order on a team in the lower half of the league.

Edwin's still young though it's too early to give up on the man yet.

NoColonBoy
08-24-2007, 02:04 PM
Sorry to be a pessimist, but there's no potential free agent starting pitcher out there who couldn't very easily, become a Milton.

The "best" SP out there will command a minimum of $8 million per year--if we're lucky. More likely $10 million. The Reds just can't afford that for a Carlos Silva who "might" be adequate.

eastkyred
08-24-2007, 02:06 PM
Spending any money on Free Agent every day players is a waste of money that needs to be put in to the pitching staff. This team has an enough bats, they need to acquire some arms. Signing a free agent 3rd baseman would be a waste of money. They have 2 young capable 3rd basemen, the question is, which one will be at 3rd next year? I would also explore the possibility of trading Gonzo, playing Kepp at 2nd and moving Phillips to SS.

ChatterRed
08-24-2007, 03:01 PM
I disagree. Plus, I'm not sure Silva is going to cost $8 million. We need to solidify the back of the bullpen. We need one more adequate guy for the #3 slot to go with Harang and Arroyo. I'm not sold on Bailey yet. I think Bailey and Cueto are still another year away. I hope not, but that's what I think.

I'd take Dunn's option.........spend some money on a couple of starters and bullpen help and stick with the rest of the team.

NoColonBoy
08-24-2007, 03:12 PM
I disagree. Plus, I'm not sure Silva is going to cost $8 million. We need to solidify the back of the bullpen. We need one more adequate guy for the #3 slot to go with Harang and Arroyo. I'm not sold on Bailey yet. I think Bailey and Cueto are still another year away. I hope not, but that's what I think.

I'd take Dunn's option.........spend some money on a couple of starters and bullpen help and stick with the rest of the team.

I'll tell you right now, Silva will get a minimum of $30 million over three years. If he (or someone like him) can be had for less than $20 million over three years, that might be interesting. But when you've got an Adam Eaton who had a three year ERA over 4.60 and fewer than 400 IPs in three seasons getting $24 million over three years in a better free agent pitching market, what's a Carlos Silva who averages over 180 IPs over three years with a lower ERA going to command?

Will M
08-24-2007, 03:29 PM
1. This year ( like last ) the free agent market is weak. Teams seem to be signing the best players to long terms deals.

2. The offense could use another right handed bat but overwhelmingly the team needs pitching.

3. As bad as the pen has been there seems to be hope on the horizon ( ie Bray, Burton ). The glaring thing this team needs is a starter who can go 200 innings and keep an ERA under 4.
Harang-Arroyo-solid #3-Bailey?-Livingston??
looks a lot better than Harang-Arroyo-Bailey?-Livingston??-??? .

4. IMO Schilling is interesting because it would take a 1-2 year deal.
Overpaying for 1-2 years is a decent gamble for the Reds compared to say Zito's deal.

Carlos Silva is of course an ex Twin. He is putting up decent numbers this year and will pitch 200 innings.

Freddy Garcia is homer happy. Bad fit at GABP.

Jason Jennings is having a terrible year and suspicion is that he is hurt.

Matt Clement, Jon Lieber & Bartolo Colon seem more like back of the rotation gambles than what the Reds really need.

5. I would like to see the Reds get another good reliever.
Free agent-Weathers-Bray-Burton-Coutlangas-Salmon/McBeth seems to be actually a good pen.

Francisco Cordero would be my first choice.
Eric Gagne is likely too expensive.
No way Mariano Rivera comes to the Reds.

6. IF Reds could sign Schilling/Silva & Cordero the team would look like this for 2008:

1B/OF Votto
1B Hatteburg
IF Cantu
2B Phillips
SS Gonzalez
Ut Keppinger
3B EE
LF Dunn
CF Hamilton
RF Griffey ( replaced by Bruce in 2009 )
OF Hopper
Ut Freel
C Ross
C Valentin

SP Harang
SP Arroyo
SP Schilling or Silva
SP #4/5 - Bailey, Livingston, Belisle, EZ, Cueto,etc

RP Cordero
RP Weathers
RP Bray
RP Burton
RP Coutlangas
RP Salmon/McBeth

This is actually a decent team. If the Reds were able to trade Griffey for pitching and make Bruce the RF then the team would be even better IMO.

UC_Ken
08-24-2007, 04:21 PM
Looking at Silva's numbers I think I'd be real interested in him. He's had one off the charts horrible year in 2006 but has been pretty consistent outside of that. He doesn't strike anyone out but is a consistent groundball pitcher which would work well in GABP. Problem is as is the case with all FA pitchers he'll get much more money than he's worth.

Vada Pinson Fan
08-24-2007, 05:02 PM
After look at looking at everyone's responses, I would have to agree that possible free agent pitcher acquistions are not the answer for 2008 for the Reds. Carlos Silva could get us right back in trouble with the type of contract like Eric Milton had. Wayne Krivsky needs to work his magic making trades. So basically what we have in starting pitching for 2008 is Araaon Harang. Bronson Arroyo, Bobby Livingston (if his torn labrum isn't as bad as first thought), Matt Belisle, and after that who knows. After the first two; this isn't good at all.

What a great help it would be if Matt Maloney, Homer Bailey and either Phil Dumatrait or Johnny Cueto could be ready to pitch as starters in 2008 for the Reds.

After the salaries of Eric Milton, and Jason LaRue, et al., come off the books this year, it leaves room to pick up the option year on Adam Dunn. Even at $13 million. The Reds cannot afford to let Adam Dunn get away. I think Houston or Texas would sign Dunn fairly quickly. Offensively, since 2001, only ARod has the stats that Adam Dunn has in terms of power based production sans the strikeouts, of course.

As I've mentioned in previous posts, I think the bullpen with the current players we have in place can effectively compete in 2008. It is the starting staff that I worry about. If Harang and/or Arroyo went down it would be catastrophic. Constant focus by Wayne Krivsky in the off-season to acquire, major league ready, sinkerball/control-type, starting pitching depth has to be the number one goal.

Other than possibly acquiring Mike Lowell at third base (Season Avg. .316BA, 17HR, 87RBI), I don't want the Reds to gamble with their money on any free-agent acquisition for 2008 that is currently available. The risk is just too high. Curt Schilling is too old, too expensive and not the answer for the Reds.

AmarilloRed
08-25-2007, 12:42 AM
I respect your post, but we need to sign at least one, preferably 2 FA starting pitchers. There is always a risk when you sign a FA pitcher in the off-season, but we will repeat 2007 without quality starting pitching . Bailey and Cueto are both 1-2 years away from being effective starting pitchers for the Reds, and we need rotation help in the short term until they are both ready. I simply recomended Carlos Silva because he seemed a good back of the rotation starter who can give us lots of innings. I would like to re-sign Adam Dunn, and it may be possible after 2008 when Griffey's contract is off the books. We should pick up his option this year, and start negotiating for a fair extension. However, if his price is too high, I would accept letting him go into FA.

zjr1717
08-25-2007, 12:44 AM
What about taking a risk and going after Koji Uehara, he's expressed interest in pitching in the states. The only question is whether he would be willing to play for a small market team in the midwest.

Old NDN
08-25-2007, 10:55 AM
Sorry to be a pessimist, but there's no potential free agent starting pitcher out there who couldn't very easily, become a Milton.

The "best" SP out there will command a minimum of $8 million per year--if we're lucky. More likely $10 million. The Reds just can't afford that for a Carlos Silva who "might" be adequate.

I agree with Colon. What free agent pitcher would WANT to come to the Reds and its bandbox ballpark? Unless we overpay, ie. Milton.

AmarilloRed
08-25-2007, 02:14 PM
If we don't get FA starters in the offseason, you had better be prepared to repeat 2007. We have Harang and Arroyo, and Bailey might be effective. That leaves you 2 starters short, and we need at least one FA starter to go with Livingston/Belisle/ Ramirez. All three of them are fifth starters, so I would seek at least one FA starter on the market, and be willing to pay fair market price and even a little more to get a legitimate back of the rotation starter.

Muggerd
08-25-2007, 02:38 PM
I think we need to sign at least 1 starter. Livingston is probably done for a while if not for ever.

Harang
Arroyo
Bailey
Belisle
Ramirez

is what we have right now. a 1 or 2 year deal with someone would be ideal. Schilling would give me a stiffy.

Screwball
08-25-2007, 03:44 PM
Harang
Arroyo
then pray for rain

is what we have right now

Fixed it for you. :thumbup:

Muggerd
08-25-2007, 03:45 PM
pretty much but that is our starting rotation next year unless something drastic happens

Ahhhorsepoo
08-25-2007, 03:53 PM
Torii Hunter......

Muggerd
08-25-2007, 04:01 PM
Torii Hunter......
Are you saying we should sign him? Where would he play, and why not Andruw Jones :dunno:

Ahhhorsepoo
08-25-2007, 04:02 PM
Are you saying we should sign him? Where would he play, and why not Andruw Jones :dunno:

He could play left or center.. andruw jones' skills have declined more than the popularity of Mike Vick this year..

Muggerd
08-25-2007, 04:03 PM
He could play left or center.. andruw jones' skills have declined more than the popularity of Mike Vick this year..

What do you mean declined?

Ahhhorsepoo
08-25-2007, 04:10 PM
What do you mean declined?


well his BA is way way lower.. he also hasnt been near the force in center field like he used to be..

Muggerd
08-25-2007, 04:13 PM
well his BA is way way lower.. he also hasnt been near the force in center field like he used to be..

Hes having a horrible year but hes still you cant deny that every year hes been better than Hunter offensively and the defensive drop off is marginal.

Muggerd
08-25-2007, 04:18 PM
Honestly they are basically the same player

Ahhhorsepoo
08-25-2007, 04:19 PM
Andruw Jones.. averages about 35 homers, a 265 BA, 340 OBP 105 RBI's and 100 runs..

Torii Hunter.. averages about 25 homers, a 275 BA, 325 OBP, 95 RBI's and 85 runs..

So career wise he has been better at batting.. but thisyear hunter is having a contract year so you would expect at least a little spike, but hunter hasnt lost a step in fielding in the 15 or so games i have watched of his.. while andruw in the 10 or so games i have watched looks like a mediocre fielder anymore.. soo I would personally want torii for 4 or 5 years before I would want andruw, since he has started to decline, very visibly..

Ahhhorsepoo
08-25-2007, 04:21 PM
They arent the same I promise you torii will demand at least 2 or 3 mil less a year than jones..

Screwball
08-25-2007, 04:32 PM
If the Reds add anybody through Free Agency, it better be a guy who stands on a piece of rubber during the game. Adding another OFer when we already have Dunn, Griffey, Hamilton, Freel, Hopper and Bruce in AAA would be very foolhardy, IMO.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-25-2007, 04:38 PM
If the Reds add anybody through Free Agency, it better be a guy who stands on a piece of rubber during the game. Adding another OFer when we already have Dunn, Griffey, Hamilton, Freel, Hopper and Bruce in AAA would be very foolhardy, IMO.

If we sign Hunter, an immediate upgrade at Defense, we save money because Dunn will try and demand 18 mil a year.. and I think you shop freel because he and hopper/keppinger have the same purpose.. hopper is a great 4th outfielder.. and keppinger could be your all around the infield player.. freel could potentially pull us a good bullpenner, or even a decent 5 starter for a team like the pirates who are going to try and build by dealing some of their pitching..

Muggerd
08-25-2007, 04:39 PM
They arent the same I promise you torii will demand at least 2 or 3 mil less a year than jones..

Yea they arent the exact same but at the end of the day they are the same just Andruw bats with more power and Torii hits for more average. Andruws OBP is going to make him some more money but they are as similar as you are going to get.

One thing is I not sold on Torii being able to stay healthy.

Screwball
08-25-2007, 04:53 PM
If we sign Hunter, an immediate upgrade at Defense, we save money because Dunn will try and demand 18 mil a year.


Dunn will only get $13 million next year, not 18 (16 at most). To speculate what Dunn will demand after that is simply guessing.

Also, I don't see how we're saving any useful amount of money in that scenario. Not paying for Dunn just to turn around and spend it on Torii Hunter wouldn't leave us with much to spend on pitching.

AmarilloRed
08-26-2007, 12:14 AM
Starting pitching is our immediate need. We need 1-2 SP signed in the off-season. With Bruce in AAA, there is not an immediate need for a OF free agent.