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View Full Version : Devin Mesoraco update - and it's not looking good.



TC81190
08-25-2007, 02:11 PM
.205/.299/.252, 1 HR, 23 K, 14 BB 127 AB

:eek:

camisadelgolf
08-25-2007, 02:15 PM
It's far from encouraging, but the guy's still a teenager, so I won't hit the panic button just yet.

Muggerd
08-25-2007, 02:42 PM
At least his obp is +.94

dougdirt
08-25-2007, 02:44 PM
Not worried a bit yet.

Screwball
08-25-2007, 02:47 PM
Isn't he looking solid defensively though? I thought I read somewhere that he's gunned down a high percentage of would-be basestealers. At a premium defensive position like catcher, I think that's a very encouraging sign.

Chi-Town Red
08-25-2007, 02:53 PM
way to early to judge...but would like to see better numbers of course

Patrick Bateman
08-25-2007, 03:40 PM
At least his obp is +.94

I think that's the main point. No doubt he has had a very rough start so far, but at least he's been able to find ways on base even though he's not hitting at all.

Mesoraco is a massive project as a hitter, but since he has an idea of how to get to first it's easy to hold out hope to see if his bat can develop. He is just coming out of high school, so it's hardly a surprise that he has been bad out of the gate. As he matures we will really get to learn what he's capable of. Right now, he just needs at-bats and hope the rest of his game comes around. But being as raw as him makes the odds stacked against him.

Matt700wlw
08-25-2007, 04:19 PM
My best FCB impression...

He's a bust. I can already tell. I knew the day they drafted him.


:D

TOBTTReds
08-25-2007, 05:05 PM
nm

PuffyPig
08-25-2007, 05:06 PM
My best FCB impression...

He's a bust. I can already tell. I knew the day they drafted him.


:D

You forgot the clincher....

"He'll only get turned around if the Cards manage to snag him."

HumnHilghtFreel
08-25-2007, 06:29 PM
I'm not really worried about it. I think NEXT year will be a more valuable indicator of what he can do. After having a full off-season to prepare, instead of coming right in after your highschool graduation.

kaldaniels
08-25-2007, 07:37 PM
Ugh....not ugh at Devin but ugh at the following post 9 months from now.

"Krivsky's an idiot...__________ is all ready in the majors!"

jmcclain19
08-25-2007, 09:33 PM
The list of HS picks who struggled in Rookie ball yet made fine major leaguers is long and distinctive.

Add to it the likely fact that Devin most likely did not call his own games in HS - at the HS level it's the coaches telling the catcher what to call - so he has to now learn how to call games, which is another big learning curve for him to deal with.

I'm not worried. Devin was a pick made with the eye on the long term.

guttle11
08-25-2007, 09:36 PM
Let's not forget, he's probably very worn down. He's a catcher and has had no offseason. Sure, kids like him play nearly year-round, but they rarely raise the level of play that much, that fast.

Give him an offseason to recover and work out some kinks, and I bet he does well in Dayton next year.

Blitz Dorsey
08-25-2007, 10:28 PM
Crap.

BearcatShane
08-25-2007, 10:32 PM
I thought I read somewhere he had a wrist injury?

Blitz Dorsey
08-25-2007, 10:38 PM
I thought I read somewhere he had a wrist injury?

Uh oh. I hope this isn't an early repeat of the "Drew Stubbs doesn't really suck, he just has a toe injury" excuse. Not saying Mesoraco is going to be a total bust like Stubbs. And as a high school draftee Mesoraco has plenty of time. But it's definitely not looking good right now. Krivsky is not looking like he has any clue how to manage the draft at this point.

Tim Lincecum agrees.

dougdirt
08-25-2007, 10:51 PM
Uh oh. I hope this isn't an early repeat of the "Drew Stubbs doesn't really suck, he just has a toe injury" excuse. Not saying Mesoraco is going to be a total bust like Stubbs. And as a high school draftee Mesoraco has plenty of time. But it's definitely not looking good right now. Krivsky is not looking like he has any clue how to manage the draft at this point.

Tim Lincecum agrees.

Drew Stubbs is a total bust at age 22?

Much less the dramatic improvements he has made since the All Star break? And Drew doesn't have an 'injury'. He has an injury. That injury is likely to require surgery in the offseason to fix it and he has been playing with it since last season.

Derek Jeter looked like a horrible pick after his stint in rookie ball... and he turned out fine.

Blitz Dorsey
08-25-2007, 10:58 PM
There are three certainties in life: death, taxes and DougDirt defending Stubbs anytime someone calls him a bust. How many times do we need to go over this? We have differing opinions. It's nothing personal. But this is about 5 times you have asked me something to the effect of, "A little early to call Stubbs a bust isn't it?"

No, I don't think it is. No offense. Again, wake me up when he is playing well at a level that corresponds with his draft status/age. Low A-ball just doesn't do it for me for a guy who was a top 10 pick last year. Tim Lincecum thinks we should drop this conversation and move on to something a little more debateable... like Skyline or GoldStar?

Muggerd
08-25-2007, 11:01 PM
I dont see the point is calling draft picks bust so quickly myself :dunno:

fearofpopvol1
08-25-2007, 11:01 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Jay Bruce struggled his first year in rookie ball. I know he wasn't tearing it up, that's for sure.

A recent high school graduate, I'm not worried. We'll see where he's at in a year.

Betterread
08-25-2007, 11:10 PM
The only struggle that I can recollect Jay Bruce enduring his first year was an 0-4 or 0-5 night with all outs by K. He displayed power hitting from the start. Joey Votto started out 0-30 in the GCL his first pro year, but he eventually went on a tear. Mesoraco's lack of power is not a good sign. Remember, most of the pitchers in this league never even get to low A ball - look at the Reds rosters for some of the past years. I hope that this year is merely a reflection of Mesoraco's adjustment to pro ball and, after a winter of hard work, he will be ready to put 2007 behind him. Even if he doesn't improve much in 2008, I'm still willing to give him a flyer until mid-2009 (he's only 18 after all), so long as he is healthy.

LoganBuck
08-25-2007, 11:17 PM
There are three certainties in life: death, taxes and DougDirt defending Stubbs anytime someone calls him a bust. How many times do we need to go over this? We have differing opinions. It's nothing personal. But this is about 5 times you have asked me something to the effect of, "A little early to call Stubbs a bust isn't it?"

No, I don't think it is. No offense. Again, wake me up when he is playing well at a level that corresponds with his draft status/age. Low A-ball just doesn't do it for me for a guy who was a top 10 pick last year. Tim Lincecum thinks we should drop this conversation and move on to something a little more debateable... like Skyline or GoldStar?

Doug is right and you are wrong, at least today. Draft picks are not ready made propositions, and on the day he was drafted no one believed that Stubbs was close. The pick was universally hated on this board. But if you cant see the obvious progress that Drew has made this year, then you are letting your opinion get in the way of fact. Talk about competition level, excuses, whatever you want but you can not deny that he is making progress. He is not a bust, at least yet.

LoganBuck
08-25-2007, 11:21 PM
As far as Mesoraco goes, catchers come around very slowly. He will do well to be in the bigs by 2011-2012.

dougdirt
08-25-2007, 11:23 PM
There are three certainties in life: death, taxes and DougDirt defending Stubbs anytime someone calls him a bust. How many times do we need to go over this? We have differing opinions. It's nothing personal. But this is about 5 times you have asked me something to the effect of, "A little early to call Stubbs a bust isn't it?"
Becuase calling a 22 year old a bust is ridiculous.



No, I don't think it is. No offense. Again, wake me up when he is playing well at a level that corresponds with his draft status/age. Low A-ball just doesn't do it for me for a guy who was a top 10 pick last year. Tim Lincecum thinks we should drop this conversation and move on to something a little more debateable... like Skyline or GoldStar?

Again tell me how it is his fault that the Reds start almost every single one of their draft picks at the lowest level reasonably possible. I promise you if Drew were in another system he would have at the lowest started in High A somewhere and probably be playing in AA right now. The Reds have some real funny ways of dealing with their players.

For the 1 millionth time, what does Tim Lincecum have anything to do with the future of Drew Stubbs? Oh, nothing at all? Then please stop bringing it up.

Skyline, but both are pretty good.

edabbs44
08-25-2007, 11:31 PM
Doug is right and you are wrong, at least today. Draft picks are not ready made propositions, and on the day he was drafted no one believed that Stubbs was close. The pick was universally hated on this board. But if you cant see the obvious progress that Drew has made this year, then you are letting your opinion get in the way of fact. Talk about competition level, excuses, whatever you want but you can not deny that he is making progress. He is not a bust, at least yet.

Progress? If he wasn't at least "making progress" in Low A at this point, then he wouldn't even be close to the discussion of Cincy's future.

Hopefully he proves us wrong but I don't think anyone can be too excited about what he has done up to this point. If you are, then you are just letting his draft position blind you.

edabbs44
08-25-2007, 11:33 PM
Becuase calling a 22 year old a bust is ridiculous.



Again tell me how it is his fault that the Reds start almost every single one of their draft picks at the lowest level reasonably possible. I promise you if Drew were in another system he would have at the lowest started in High A somewhere and probably be playing in AA right now. The Reds have some real funny ways of dealing with their players.

For the 1 millionth time, what does Tim Lincecum have anything to do with the future of Drew Stubbs? Oh, nothing at all? Then please stop bringing it up.

Skyline, but both are pretty good.

Do you truly believe that he'd be in AA? Why would anyone have him there when he has shown very little in Low A at this point? Do you think that he plays to the level of his competition?

dougdirt
08-25-2007, 11:36 PM
Do you truly believe that he'd be in AA? Why would anyone have him there when he has shown very little in Low A at this point? Do you think that he plays to the level of his competition?

Well I imagine the same type of season for Drew regardless of whether he were in low or high A honestly this season. Most teams, after posting a .950 OPS over the last two months would have pushed him up a level to AA to give him at least a little taste for next season.

As for what Stubbs has done in low A at this point being 'very little', I will disagree to a large degree. A CF with his numbers is very promising outside of his June.

edabbs44
08-25-2007, 11:45 PM
Well I imagine the same type of season for Drew regardless of whether he were in low or high A honestly this season. Most teams, after posting a .950 OPS over the last two months would have pushed him up a level to AA to give him at least a little taste for next season.

As for what Stubbs has done in low A at this point being 'very little', I will disagree to a large degree. A CF with his numbers is very promising outside of his June.

Time will tell.

LoganBuck
08-25-2007, 11:55 PM
Progress? If he wasn't at least "making progress" in Low A at this point, then he wouldn't even be close to the discussion of Cincy's future.

Hopefully he proves us wrong but I don't think anyone can be too excited about what he has done up to this point. If you are, then you are just letting his draft position blind you.

Being blind to his stats, is being blind. I never stated I was doing cartwheels over him at any point. But I get sick of people wanting to throw him down a rat hole. Stubbs in not a bust, and should be given space and opportunity. He is leading the league in runs scored by a margin of 10.

edabbs44
08-26-2007, 12:04 AM
Being blind to his stats, is being blind. I never stated I was doing cartwheels over him at any point. But I get sick of people wanting to throw him down a rat hole. Stubbs in not a bust, and should be given space and opportunity. He is leading the league in runs scored by a margin of 10.

I think there is a little of both sides. Some think he is and will be a bust, mostly b/c he was a first-rounder. Others think he is starting to come around and will be just fine.

Both are opinions. Neither are right or wrong at this point. In the long run, what Stubbs is doing right now doesn't matter. It's what he will be doing in the long run and beyond.

But for now, I don't think anyone can dispute that he hasn't had the best start for his career.

fearofpopvol1
08-26-2007, 12:57 AM
The only struggle that I can recollect Jay Bruce enduring his first year was an 0-4 or 0-5 night with all outs by K. He displayed power hitting from the start. Joey Votto started out 0-30 in the GCL his first pro year, but he eventually went on a tear. Mesoraco's lack of power is not a good sign. Remember, most of the pitchers in this league never even get to low A ball - look at the Reds rosters for some of the past years. I hope that this year is merely a reflection of Mesoraco's adjustment to pro ball and, after a winter of hard work, he will be ready to put 2007 behind him. Even if he doesn't improve much in 2008, I'm still willing to give him a flyer until mid-2009 (he's only 18 after all), so long as he is healthy.

Jay Bruce batted .257 his first season at Billings. While that's not as bad as Devin, that's hardly exceptional. If you want to include his stats with GC Redsox in the mix, he was batting a combined .263. It's not terrible when you combine the stats, but again, he wasn't tearing it up.

dougdirt
08-26-2007, 02:26 AM
Jay Bruce batted .257 his first season at Billings. While that's not as bad as Devin, that's hardly exceptional. If you want to include his stats with GC Redsox in the mix, he was batting a combined .263. It's not terrible when you combine the stats, but again, he wasn't tearing it up.

Few things.
1. Jay Bruce had to take the first pitch of every at bat his rookie ball years with the GCL REDS (not Red Sox no matter what thebaseballcube.com wants to tell you) and the Billings Mustangs, so by comparison, its not really a comparison at all.
2. While we are at it though, comparing most guys to Jay Bruce in the minors is also a fairly unfair comparison.

Topcat
08-26-2007, 04:52 AM
Devin's a bloody High school catcher! Last I checked almost every scouting service had him highly rated. Silly old paid to inform and advise guys did nothing but send the Reds a bust of a pick> If your that retarded to not realize the depth and adjustment to needed to take on that position as a pro player . I have a simple answer for you *tunes up into best Lewis Black impression* babbble bable *head shake* Kill yourself. As for Highschool players adjustment period Justin Reed says Hello :wave:





PS> Waiver claim for those who actually consider this as a threat or a malicious comment, seek help and quickly I recommend Zoloft :cool:

camisadelgolf
08-26-2007, 06:06 AM
There are three certainties in life: death, taxes and DougDirt defending Stubbs anytime someone calls him a bust. How many times do we need to go over this? We have differing opinions. It's nothing personal. But this is about 5 times you have asked me something to the effect of, "A little early to call Stubbs a bust isn't it?"

No, I don't think it is. No offense. Again, wake me up when he is playing well at a level that corresponds with his draft status/age. Low A-ball just doesn't do it for me for a guy who was a top 10 pick last year. Tim Lincecum thinks we should drop this conversation and move on to something a little more debateable... like Skyline or GoldStar?

If someone is going to repeatedly call Stubbs a bust, what's wrong with repeatedly defending Stubbs? Despite the progress that Stubbs is showing, your opinion of him being a bust doesn't seem to be changing. At least dougdirt is staying relevant by incorporating new evidence. It's not like dougdirt defends Stubbs because they're good friends, and it's a lot of fun. I promise you that if Stubbs is 27 years old and still hasn't gotten above AA, dougdirt will be calling him a bust.

IslandRed
08-26-2007, 11:51 AM
There are three certainties in life: death, taxes and DougDirt defending Stubbs anytime someone calls him a bust.

Make it four: Someone calling Stubbs a bust in a thread that isn't about Stubbs.

OnBaseMachine
08-26-2007, 11:58 AM
Make it four: Someone calling Stubbs a bust in a thread that isn't about Stubbs.

:clap:

Anyway, I'm not too worried about Mesoraco. Like someone else said, many future major leaguers have struggled in the GCL only to go on and have successful major league careers. Devin is barely out of high school and is probably working on his defense a little more than hitting at this point considering he is a catcher.

Blitz Dorsey
08-26-2007, 12:32 PM
Add me to the list of people not worried about Mesoraco. It would be much different if he was a guy coming out of college struggling like this. Will be interesting to see how he does next year. And like I said on another thread, I believe he will start the year in Dayton.

People take the Drew Stubbs thing way too personally. They are just opinions on both sides of the ledger. If you take it personally, get over it. I think he's a bust and believe me I hope I'm wrong. Sorry, but "kind of coming around at low-A ball" just doesn't change my mind. If he goes out and has a big year next year in AA, then I might become a believer. But right now, that was just an awful pick and there's no getting around it. Saying otherwise makes me think you might be sticking your head in the sand. Nothing wrong with optimism (I thought the Reds would win 85 games this year) but let's be a little bit realistic.

But at least there are a few people here who can engage in baseball conversation. And DougDirt, I agree about Skyline, but like you said you can't go wrong either way. I've had many a night enjoying Gold Star as well.

As for Mesoraco, this kid is definitely our catcher of the future. The future is just a long time away.

LoganBuck
08-26-2007, 01:57 PM
People take the Drew Stubbs thing way too personally. They are just opinions on both sides of the ledger. If you take it personally, get over it. I think he's a bust and believe me I hope I'm wrong. Sorry, but "kind of coming around at low-A ball" just doesn't change my mind. If he goes out and has a big year next year in AA, then I might become a believer. But right now, that was just an awful pick and there's no getting around it. Saying otherwise makes me think you might be sticking your head in the sand. Nothing wrong with optimism (I thought the Reds would win 85 games this year) but let's be a little bit realistic.


Sorry but you are missing the point. You use terms like "awful", "saying otherwise makes me think you might be sticking your head in the sand". You are the one taking it personally. There is/was no debate about the actual selection of Stubbs, Redzone wasn't happy, 15 months later to continue to bang on the kid, is not fair. He has shown undeniable progress.

Edabbs is right on when he says "But for now, I don't think anyone can dispute that he hasn't had the best start for his career." That stance is fine, and true. But to call him a "bust" is not.

camisadelgolf
08-26-2007, 03:24 PM
Saying he is a bust and saying you think he will be a bust are two different things.

fearofpopvol1
08-26-2007, 06:06 PM
Few things.
1. Jay Bruce had to take the first pitch of every at bat his rookie ball years with the GCL REDS (not Red Sox no matter what thebaseballcube.com wants to tell you) and the Billings Mustangs, so by comparison, its not really a comparison at all.
2. While we are at it though, comparing most guys to Jay Bruce in the minors is also a fairly unfair comparison.

If you want to argue that the sample size for both teams was small for Bruce, I'd give you that, but taking the 1st pitch no matter what should be an overly relevant factor.

GoReds33
08-26-2007, 06:45 PM
I think he will be a fine catcher. I don't understand why people think a high schooler should be able to come in and hit well in pro baseball. There is a huge difference. Even the best pitchers in high school throw like 80 with maybe one or 2 good offspeed pitches. In pro ball everybody throws atleast that good.

Blitz Dorsey
08-26-2007, 07:49 PM
Saying he is a bust and saying you think he will be a bust are two different things.

Oh, I agree with this. I should have been clearer. I think he definitely will be a bust. I agree that there is still plenty of time for him to turn it around, I just think it's unlikely.

Now about Mesoraco... I just hope this kid turns it around next year at Dayton. He is still very young and has four years in the minors ahead of him most likely.

BoydsOfSummer
08-26-2007, 09:34 PM
Dunn strikes out to much.

Screwball
08-26-2007, 09:47 PM
Dunn strikes out to much.

It's about time someone noticed this.

LoganBuck
08-26-2007, 10:33 PM
Why can't we just redo Wily Mo Pena's contract and send him back to the minors?