Credit where it's due......to Dunn

[REDblooded]

Dunn is probably always gonna be a streaky hitter, but he's truely made some great strides at the plate this year. I've held no punches when ripping him for his inadequacies, so I want to give him credit for what has markedly been a better season that years past.

[Chi-Town Red]

Dunn is probably always gonna be a streaky hitter, but he's truely made some great strides at the plate this year. I've held no punches when ripping him for his inadequacies, so I want to give him credit for what has markedly been a better season that years past.
agreed

[Muggerd]

Dunn is probably always gonna be a streaky hitter, but he's truely made some great strides at the plate this year. I've held no punches when ripping him for his inadequacies, so I want to give him credit for what has markedly been a better season that years past.

Yep, hes done pretty good the last few weeks. Hes taken my main complaint and is wiping it off the map.

[GoReds33]

I love when he has stretches like this. He can carry a team for a couple weeks.

[redsfanfalcon]

He's actually going with the pitch...the HR he hit last night was actually to left center...what a change.

[ChatterRed]

Not taking anything away from Adam.........but it sure helps when the whole lineup is hitting well. Anyone look at the batting averages of the typical starting lineup these days? Everyone is hitting the snot out of the ball.

In the past, Dunn has slumped in the second half, but he has reversed that so far this year. Kudos to Dunn.

[improbus]

Last night, he hit a broken bat rbi base hit up the middle, something he wasn't doing much of earlier in the year. Good to see. Just as a side not, his K's in August are WAY down (he only has 18, whereas he had 41 in May and 32 in April)

[Screwball]

Adam Dunn's August: .274/.419/.658/1.077 with 9 HRs and 23 RBIs (and there's still a few games left against Pirate pitching). He is absolutely tearing it up this month. Perhaps this is a credit to the conditioning program he underwent over the offseason. At any rate, it's A LOT of fun to watch.

[Ludwig Reds Fan]

I didn't pull any punches when he was stuck in the Dunn Days of Summer, so I have to say he has been pretty darn good, even defensively, of late.

Keep it up, Dunn! Shoot for 50 HR :)

[Chi-Town Red]

if he can carry us into Sept with a shot at the division thats all we can ask...great job Dunner!

[Degenerate39]

If they pick up his option imagine what kind of year he'll have next year in his contract year

[GoReds33]

If they pick up his option imagine what kind of year he'll have next year in his contract yearI hope they pick it up. 12 million won't get you much in terms of pitchers this year. People will be bidding 6 mil a year for Linebrink.:)

[AmarilloRed]

I believe they will pick up the option. An extension is a open question, however.

[GoReds33]

I believe they will pick up the option. An extension is a open question, however.I think they will have to. If they want to win the payroll should be up at 80 million dollars. According to Forbes the Reds made 17.9 mil last year. If they are supposedly budgeted to break even they must be saving up for a very rainy day.:D

[tbball10]

although i normally do not think dunn helps the reds, ill give him some props for his recent play. he has been hitting the ball well and to all fields. he has also been pretty solid defensively.

the whole team is playing great... lets hope they can stay hot and make it interesting down the stretch!!

[ChatterRed]

Yes, the all but have to pick up that option.

[I(heart)Freel]

I love when he has stretches like this. He can carry a team for a couple weeks.

Bingo.

My biggest problem with paying him the money he's due (and would no doubt get on the market) is that he doesn't seem to carry the team like other studs on other teams.

But boy howdy is he proving me wrong on that right now.

The question is, can he do it for a long period of time? Enough to justify almost 20 percent of payroll on this club? That's a lot of team-carrying.

September will be key to that answer, because we all saw what happened late last year.

I still say the FO plan is to pick up the option early in the offseason and then quietly shop him around to see what they could get. Then they go to AD and float the trade and see if he likes the new team.

If he does, he drops his no-trade and he's gone. If they don't get anything like fair return or if he doesn't like the new place, then - at worst - we got the Donkey to get 2008 started.

[Fullboat]

I still would like to see Dunn traded.It's not that I don't like the player
(He is a great player)but he is the Reds best trading commodity.

[AmarilloRed]

I still would like to see Dunn traded.It's not that I don't like the player
(He is a great player)but he is the Reds best trading commodity.

We tried that at the trade deadline and got low ball offers. Teams just don't want to trade their best prospects for veteran players anymore.

[Fullboat]

We tried that at the trade deadline and got low ball offers. Teams just don't want to trade their best prospects for veteran players anymore.

True! But at the end of the season after some
playoff team fails to go all the way they may reconsider.Dunn will reach that 40,100 plateau again
which will make his value higher.

I would rather they trade Jr. but because of age
and cost I don't think there is value there.Now if the Reds get Top(And I do mean Top) prospects
you have to do it.

[AmarilloRed]

I believe we are unable to trade Dunn in the off-season. This is assuming the Reds pick up the option. He will not be able to be traded until next June, when he can choose 10 teams he would like to be traded to.

[mound_patrol]

I believe we are unable to trade Dunn in the off-season. This is assuming the Reds pick up the option. He will not be able to be traded until next June, when he can choose 10 teams he would like to be traded to.

He can always void his no-trade clause if he likes the team the reds decided to trade with. But I'm hoping he signs a 3 or 4 year extension.

[Marge'sMullet]

Yeah, I was all over Dunn back a month or two ago, but I always said I hope he proves me wrong. He does seem to be getting it now. I hope he can continue it throughout the rest of the season.

I think with Hamilton and Keppering 1 & 2 this team has finally found it's lineup.

I'm loving this. I can't wait to see the Pirates series.

[a1redsfan]

I have said it all along, it is a mistake to trade Dunn, not many come along like him. He does strike out but he also walks a ton of times!! Let EE blossom and Votto hit next year and the Reds could have an awesome lineup. Lets spend enough to keep Dunn and buy a SP or Closer or both. GO REDS

[Vada Pinson Fan]

Dunn is probably always gonna be a streaky hitter, but he's truely made some great strides at the plate this year. I've held no punches when ripping him for his inadequacies, so I want to give him credit for what has markedly been a better season that years past.

I agree 100%. Adam has had better success in making contact of late. I'd love to see Adam dedicate himself to an off-season program of fielding and hitting practice, then be ready to start things up in 2008. Pete Rose used to say in Spring Training- "I know I'm ready to hit when my hands are blistered." That's the dedication (hitting over and over and over until it's mechanical) needed from Dunn. Same way in the outfield. Adam Dunn needs to work on:


Quickly fielding a ball before it rattles around the left field corner. Perhaps better positioning helps this.
Better awareness of the warning track. Adam isn't good at balls hit over his head that wind up hitting the wall. I have watched him stop too soon; turn his back to home and wait for the ball to hit the wall or the warning track and then field it.
First step quickness. Must work on his reaction time.
Better contact at the plate. Better situational hitting.But most off all, Adam is improving in my eyes. Let's hope the Reds pick up Adam's option. Currently, AD is the best run producer/power threat we have.

Nice thread- REDblooded!!!

[fadetoblack2880]

The homer Dunn hit Thursday didn't travel far enough. Trade him away. It's obvious the homers he hits don't travel far enough and if the Reds can get a decent low A ball prospect, they should do it....:rant:

[Muggerd]

made 2 awful plays today but hey at least he hit a homer the other day

[Degenerate39]

made 2 awful plays today but hey at least he hit a homer the other day

But hey Norris Hopper got caught stealing 2nd in the first inning and he would've scored on the Keppinger double! Let's forget about that. It's not all Adam Dunn's fault and this is getting ridiculous

[Ahhhorsepoo]

Getting caught stealing is far differentfrom a BONEHEADED defensive play.. Please dont compare them.. thats like saying throwing an incomplete pass is the same as an interception return for a TD..

[fadetoblack2880]

But hey Norris Hopper got caught stealing 2nd in the first inning and he would've scored on the Keppinger double! Let's forget about that. It's not all Adam Dunn's fault and this is getting ridiculous

I agree with you. It's ok if Hopper messes up, apparently. It's a double standard.

[Muggerd]

But hey Norris Hopper got caught stealing 2nd in the first inning and he would've scored on the Keppinger double! Let's forget about that. It's not all Adam Dunn's fault and this is getting ridiculous

So since hopper missed a sign its ok that adam dunn screwed up multiple times?

[Muggerd]

I agree with you. It's ok if Hopper messes up, apparently. It's a double standard.

Talk about double standard.

You are trying to defend Dunn by saying that Hopper messed up. :bowrofl:

[Degenerate39]

So since hopper missed a sign its ok that adam dunn screwed up multiple times?

Does it honestly matter? I mean my God Mack managed horribly and a lot of the players screwed up. But it is solely Dunn's fault to guys like you. This is really getting annoying.

[Muggerd]

Does it honestly matter? I mean my God Mack managed horribly and a lot of the players screwed up. But it is solely Dunn's fault to guys like you. This is really getting annoying.

Its not solely Dunns fault and I never said that but how dare I expect a player to be able to make the most routine of plays. It amazed me how you guys would rather ignore that Dunn makes mistakes all the time and then try to defend them by saying "well hopper made mistakes too"

You cant point out all his positives and then just blindly ignore his major flaws.

This is getting really annoying.

[Screwball]

How fickle some of you guys are. I would say I find it ironic that some are using a thread initially intended to praise a player to now rip him apart, but then I remembered it's about Dunn, and I'm no longer the least bit surprised.

[Ludwig Reds Fan]

Who's fault is it that Dunn doesn't have more RBIS?

Dunn. If he were any good, the players that bat before him would get on base more.

Plus...every time he bats, its either a walk, HR, or K. Umm hello? What ever happened to making smarter outs? Plus, not hitting double play grounders is just being selfish, Adam.

Trade Dunn for a prospect. 40 HRs a year just doesn't do it for me. Besides, think of all the upside you get from a prospect. Might just get the next Hank Aaron. Or maybe you get lucky and get a guy who will hit you 40 HRs every year.

He makes too much money anyway.

[Muggerd]

How fickle some of you guys are. I would say I find it ironic that some are using a thread initially intended to praise a player to now rip him apart, but then I remembered it's about Dunn, and I'm no longer the least bit surprised.

I find it ironic that if we made a thread to bash a player a bunch of people would come in to praise him.

I give credit where credit is due. A lot of members on this board just chose to ignore it for some reason.

[Muggerd]

Not to mention I dont see any of you guys defending Griffey for not running out a play because Hopper made mistakes.

[Screwball]

I find it ironic that if we made a thread to bash a player a bunch of people would come in to praise him.

Wow, that's pretty sad. Creating threads for the sole purpose to bash a player? Classy. :rolleyes:

[Degenerate39]

You cant point out all his positives and then just blindly ignore his major flaws.

WHY SHOULD ANYONE DO THAT WHEN YOU DO IT ENOUGH FOR EVERYONE

[fadetoblack2880]

WHY SHOULD ANYONE DO THAT WHEN YOU DO IT ENOUGH FOR EVERYONE

I'm glad I'm not the only Dunn fan here. He can do no right. He could hit .300 and win a Gold Glove and alot of people on here would whine and demand he be traded. It's rediculous.

[kbrake]

I find it ironic that if we made a thread to bash a player a bunch of people would come in to praise him.

I give credit where credit is due. A lot of members on this board just chose to ignore it for some reason.

You bash Dunn to no end and it gets old. We dont think Adam Dunn is perfect we just think the things he does well more than make up for the things he does not do well. All these guys are saying is spread the blame a little. Norris Hopper lost game 1 when he showed his unbelievable ability to not take a walk. In the 7th with two on it looked like they were trying to walk him and he struck out.

The way both games were managed is another source that deserves a lot more blame than Adam Dunn. By far the biggest day of the year and we sit our best offensive player for game one and then for game two we sit our second best offensive player. Pure genius. Sanchez, Bay, and LaRoche sure didnt seem to struggle playing two.

If Norris Hopper had contributed 1/5 to this team what Adam Dunn has this season would be much different.

[Muggerd]

Wow, that's pretty sad. Creating threads for the sole purpose to bash a player? Classy. :rolleyes:

I said IF.

[fadetoblack2880]

You bash Dunn to no end and it gets old. We dont think Adam Dunn is perfect we just think the things he does well more than make up for the things he does not do well. All these guys are saying is spread the blame a little. Norris Hopper lost game 1 when he showed his unbelievable ability to not take a walk. In the 7th with two on it looked like they were trying to walk him and he struck out.

The way both games were managed is another source that deserves a lot more blame than Adam Dunn. By far the biggest day of the year and we sit our best offensive player for game one and then for game two we sit our second best offensive player. Pure genius. Sanchez, Bay, and LaRoche sure didnt seem to struggle playing two.

If Norris Hopper had contributed 1/5 to this team what Adam Dunn has this season would be much different.

:thumbup: Well said.

[Muggerd]

You bash Dunn to no end and it gets old. We dont think Adam Dunn is perfect we just think the things he does well more than make up for the things he does not do well. All these guys are saying is spread the blame a little. Norris Hopper lost game 1 when he showed his unbelievable ability to not take a walk. In the 7th with two on it looked like they were trying to walk him and he struck out.

The way both games were managed is another source that deserves a lot more blame than Adam Dunn. By far the biggest day of the year and we sit our best offensive player for game one and then for game two we sit our second best offensive player. Pure genius. Sanchez, Bay, and LaRoche sure didnt seem to struggle playing two.

If Norris Hopper had contributed 1/5 to this team what Adam Dunn has this season would be much different.

So just because you can find other reasons that we lost its makes everything that Dunn screws up completely acceptable?

He can go 0-5 with 2 errors and we lose by 1 run and you guys would go out of your way to blame someone else. Just admit it. Im not the one being irrational here.

[Muggerd]

I'm glad I'm not the only Dunn fan here. He can do no right. He could hit .300 and win a Gold Glove and alot of people on here would whine and demand he be traded. It's rediculous.

You are right I never point out what Dunn does well.

[Muggerd]

Its like the Adam Dunn fan club around here. Whats next you guys saying well griffey has hit 592 homers so its ok he loafs.

[AmarilloRed]

I like Adam Dunn and appreciate the things he does well. He hits 40 hr, drives in 90 rbi and scores 80-100 runs a season. I also realize he has some flaws. He strikes out a lot, plays average defense, and does not hit with RISP. I think he is a fine player, and I would extend him until we get get a comparable prospect to take his place in the outfield.

[Muggerd]

I like Adam Dunn and appreciate the things he does well. He hits 40 hr, drives in 90 rbi and scores 80-100 runs a season. I also realize he has some flaws. He strikes out a lot, plays average defense, and does not hit with RISP. I think he is a fine player, and I would extend him until we get get a comparable prospect to take his place in the outfield.

I dont think I can really disagree with much of that besides that he doesn't play average defense and the whole liking him part.

[AmarilloRed]

Let me just say this: It is very difficult to get outfielders who show the power Dunn has. I would be open to trading him if we could get a comparable outfielder, but I fear that might be a little difficult.

[kbrake]

Its like the Adam Dunn fan club around here. Whats next you guys saying well griffey has hit 592 homers so its ok he loafs.

Had Dunn hit a ball and stood at the plate and watched it in the biggest game of the year and then ended up standing at first after it hit off the top of the wall I cant even imagine the tears that would have been rolling down your face as you made 1,000 post about it.

Like I said we realize Dunn is not perfect. If he went 0-5 with 2 errors I would say he had a bad game but I would get over it because much more often he gets on base at least twice and plays average defense.

Dunn is responsible for more Reds wins than any player on this team. He hits 5th with zero protection and is going to end up driving in probably around 110 runs. More RBI than David Wright, David Ortiz, and Albert Pujols. Your right though he sucks.

[Muggerd]

Where did I say Adam Dunn sucks?

It just cracks me up how you guys continue to defend his flaws by saying well hes good at hitting homers and other players suck.

Its like he gets a free pass just because he hits 40 homers and barely drives in 50 other people a year.

[Muggerd]

Average D is Keppinger at short
Nothing about Adam Dunn in the outfield is average.

[mound_patrol]

Average D is Keppinger at short
Nothing about Adam Dunn in the outfield is average.

Average outfielder, no, average left fielder, yes. Like many people have said we know he has flaws. But he does so much more for this team that is good. Did you forget that just recently Dunn had an rbi in 21 of 22 games while hitting 5th with little protection. You find me a guy who will be 3rd in the league in hr's. Or top ten in the league in OPS and Rbis and cost less than 13 million ,and i'll be happy to get rid of Dunn. But since that isnt possible lets keep the known commodity in Dunn.

[Muggerd]

Average outfielder, no, average left fielder, yes. Like many people have said we know he has flaws. But he does so much more for this team that is good. Did you forget that just recently Dunn had an rbi in 21 of 22 games while hitting 5th with little protection. You find me a guy who will be 3rd in the league in hr's. Or top ten in the league in OPS and Rbis and cost less than 13 million ,and i'll be happy to get rid of Dunn. But since that isnt possible lets keep the known commodity in Dunn.

I dont forget that at all. Actually I have been a pretty big supporter of his the last couple weeks. For some reason you guys just think I do.

I get called out for pointing out when Dunn screws up majorly I get the whole "Well this guy messed up" defense.

Adam Dunn is a good part of any line up (if hes not in a slump) but it doesnt excuse him not being able to pick up a freaking ball or throw one remotely near a base.

Adam Dunn has been one of the worst LF in the majors for multiple years. You can not deny that hes the worst of the worst when it comes to his fielding ability.

[mound_patrol]

I dont forget that at all. Actually I have been a pretty big supporter of his the last couple weeks. For some reason you guys just think I do.

I get called out for pointing out when Dunn screws up majorly I get the whole "Well this guy messed up" defense.

Adam Dunn is a good part of any line up (if hes not in a slump) but it doesnt excuse him not being able to pick up a freaking ball or throw one remotely near a base.

Adam Dunn has been one of the worst LF in the majors for multiple years. You can not deny that hes the worst of the worst when it comes to his fielding ability.

Dunn is rated in the middle of the pack for left fielders. and on the ground ball you are talking about he had ZERO chance of throwing the runner out at home. By the time he was bending down to pick up the ball the runner was already 3 steps past 3rd...Vlad himself couldnt have thrown the dude out.

[Muggerd]

Dunn is rated in the middle of the pack for left fielders. and on the ground ball you are talking about he had ZERO chance of throwing the runner out at home. By the time he was bending down to pick up the ball the runner was already 3 steps past 3rd...Vlad himself couldnt have thrown the dude out.

He had zero chance maybe, but he made sure he had zero chance by bobbling the ball. Its ok keep defending his D though.

Show me these rankings, I'm willing to bet that you are going to quote me some nice and convenient stat that helps prove your case while really being meaning less.

[mound_patrol]

He had zero chance maybe, but he made sure he had zero chance by bobbling the ball. Its ok keep defending his D though.

Show me these rankings, I'm willing to bet that you are going to quote me some nice and convenient stat that helps prove your case while really being meaning less.

That's right I forgot. Stats are meaningless. It's what Muggerd sees with his own two eyes that matter.

[DTCromer]

Average outfielder, no, average left fielder, yes. Like many people have said we know he has flaws. But he does so much more for this team that is good. Did you forget that just recently Dunn had an rbi in 21 of 22 games while hitting 5th with little protection. You find me a guy who will be 3rd in the league in hr's. Or top ten in the league in OPS and Rbis and cost less than 13 million ,and i'll be happy to get rid of Dunn. But since that isnt possible lets keep the known commodity in Dunn.


I wouldn't want to build my lineup around a guy who's a 1 dimensional baseball player. That's why I think it's a bad idea, for a small market team like the Reds to sign him. In my opinion, we're much better off without his salary.

[Muggerd]

That's right I forgot. Stats are meaningless. It's what Muggerd sees with his own two eyes that matter.

How about those rankings you are so willing to show me?

Im sure you are just going to say he hasnt had that many errors. So yes thats a meaningless stat to me.

[AmarilloRed]

I think Dunn's flaws can be overlooked if we have a strong enough lineup around around him. For years Dunn and Griffey have been the focus of the offense, and teams have pitched around Dunn and Griffey. If we have Keppinger and Hamilton at the top, and Brandon Phillips and Edwin developing into good players; than we can accept Adam Dunn. He is not a leader or a player to build around, but he will be a major contributor to any lineup. There was a poll recently on ORG where they voted on Adam's defense, and it turned out Atomic Dumpling ranked Dunn among current left fielders. Anyone who is interested could check that poll to see where Adam ranks as a left fielder.

[Muggerd]

I think Dunn's flaws can be overlooked if we have a strong enough lineup around around him. For years Dunn and Griffey have been the focus of the offense, and teams have pitched around Dunn and Griffey. If we have Keppinger and Hamilton at the top, and Brandon Phillips and Edwin developing into good players; than we can accept Adam Dunn. He is not a leader or a player to build around, but he will be a major contributor to any lineup. There was a poll recently on ORG where they voted on Adam's defense, and it turned out Atomic Dumpling ranked Dunn among current left fielders. Anyone who is interested could check that poll to see where Adam ranks as a left fielder.

I do not disagree that Dunn is an asset to a well balanced line up. Hes a great piece of the puzzle if you can afford it.

[fadetoblack2880]

I do not disagree that Dunn is an asset to a well balanced line up. Hes a great piece of the puzzle if you can afford it.

They can afford to pay Milton $12 mil to sit on the DL and Stanton $3 million to blow leads, I don't see where paying Dunn $13 million is such a problem.

[Muggerd]

They can afford to pay Milton $12 mil to sit on the DL and Stanton $3 million to blow leads, I don't see where paying Dunn $13 million is such a problem.

Once again the whole well this guy is bad so it makes Dunn better argument comes to light. Just because the Milton deal is bad and Stanton sucks doesn't change the fact that Dunn is going to get a big contract. As much as I would like for the reds to have the payroll of some other teams its not going to happen. Until that happens players like Dunn have to be replaced to keep the rest of the line up good as well. Its budgeting money.

Do we know about how much Dunn is going to make in a couple years? How many years that contract is going to be? No, but I really doubt we can afford to pay that much money to such a 1 dimentional player. I dont think a team has ever won paying 1 player 1/6th of its payroll. I wish we could keep Dunn and improve the rest of the team with a higher payroll and buying some FA but its never going to happen.

[REDblooded]

I take it all back. I started this. now i have to end it......................If the Pirates don't win this game by 4 or more, Dunn single-handedly lost this game. I just remembered how good he can look when he's on, and how much he makes me want to yack when he's not.

[Muggerd]

What the heck has happened :bowrofl:

[mound_patrol]

What the heck has happened :bowrofl:

Glad Dunn has made your day. I guess its official now. Dunn has had a bad game and is terrible. The debate ends with tonights game.

[Muggerd]

Glad Dunn has made your day. I guess its official now. Dunn has had a bad game and is terrible. The debate ends with tonights game.

Once again you guys think I enjoy seeing Dunn screw up and cost the reds runs. You think by me being hard on a player that screws up the simplest of things its me hating him and thinking hes the worst player in the majors.

[Degenerate39]

Glad Dunn has made your day. I guess its official now. Dunn has had a bad game and is terrible. The debate ends with tonights game.

Good these threads are getting old. A thread is made to praise Dunn for what he does well and then he gets bashed in the same thread. Go figure.

[Muggerd]

Good these threads are getting old. A thread is made to praise Dunn for what he does well and then he gets bashed in the same thread. Go figure.

Yet in the thread about how many runs hes cost us you try to make excuses for him. Just a little ironic for you to call me out on something when you do something so similar every chance you get.

[REDblooded]

Good these threads are getting old. A thread is made to praise Dunn for what he does well and then he gets bashed in the same thread. Go figure.

ever heard the term "i brought you into this world, and i'll take you out"? Yes.....Yes.....Dunn. I'm taking your positive vibes away. Now go hit the treadmill.

[Degenerate39]

ever heard the term "i brought you into this world, and i'll take you out"? Yes.....Yes.....Dunn. I'm taking your positive vibes away. Now go hit the treadmill.

??????????????????????

[fadetoblack2880]

Yet in the thread about how many runs hes cost us you try to make excuses for him. Just a little ironic for you to call me out on something when you do something so similar every chance you get.


You talk about the negatives that may go away if Dunn is dealt, but you cannot deny the fact that he is a major offensive part of this lineup. Granted he may strike out 190 times, but where do the Reds make up what Dunn provides in power if in fact is traded? It's obvious this team is unable to win with Dunn hitting 40 homers every season, so how will they win if you take away the 40+ homers he is capable of hitting? Josh Hamilton? I don't see that happening just yet. I'm not taking anything away from Hamilton. He's an outstanding player and I'm happy that Krivsky acquired him. You can't count on anyone other than Dunn on that roster to provide the offense that he provides right now. If this team wants to win then they better do it now. The National League is the weaker of the two leagues. It won't change next season. The oppurtunity for Cincinnati to compete is within reach and trading Dunn away for nothing will only set this team back.

[Muggerd]

You talk about the negatives that may go away if Dunn is dealt, but you cannot deny the fact that he is a major offensive part of this lineup. Granted he may strike out 190 times, but where do the Reds make up what Dunn provides in power if in fact is traded? It's obvious this team is unable to win with Dunn hitting 40 homers every season, so how will they win if you take away the 40+ homers he is capable of hitting? Josh Hamilton? I don't see that happening just yet. I'm not taking anything away from Hamilton. He's an outstanding player and I'm happy that Krivsky acquired him. You can't count on anyone other than Dunn on that roster to provide the offense that he provides right now. If this team wants to win then they better do it now. The National League is the weaker of the two leagues. It won't change next season. The oppurtunity for Cincinnati to compete is within reach and trading Dunn away for nothing will only set this team back.

Who said you have to replace 40 homers? The homers are just a number. Its the RBIs and Runs that would be hard to replace but then again replacing those numbers the best you can while saving money might help the team in the long run.

[Muggerd]

Also I have never said I dont want Dunn on this team. At least not from what I can remember. I have said a lot of things regarding the situation but I have never said this team is bad because of Dunn. I have said Dunn needs to improve in a lot of way but never said we shouldnt keep him. If money wasnt a factor I wouldnt get rid of him.

[Degenerate39]

You talk about the negatives that may go away if Dunn is dealt, but you cannot deny the fact that he is a major offensive part of this lineup. Granted he may strike out 190 times, but where do the Reds make up what Dunn provides in power if in fact is traded? It's obvious this team is unable to win with Dunn hitting 40 homers every season, so how will they win if you take away the 40+ homers he is capable of hitting? Josh Hamilton? I don't see that happening just yet. I'm not taking anything away from Hamilton. He's an outstanding player and I'm happy that Krivsky acquired him. You can't count on anyone other than Dunn on that roster to provide the offense that he provides right now. If this team wants to win then they better do it now. The National League is the weaker of the two leagues. It won't change next season. The oppurtunity for Cincinnati to compete is within reach and trading Dunn away for nothing will only set this team back.

Don't forget the RBI and Runs Scored totals. I think Dunn has 91 RBIs with a month left in the season. He can get to 100+ RBIs pretty easy. And Dunn has close to 90 runs this season. It's not just the Home Run totals you have to replace.

[Muggerd]

Don't forget the RBI and Runs Scored totals. I think Dunn has 91 RBIs with a month left in the season. He can get to 100+ RBIs pretty easy. And Dunn has close to 90 runs this season. It's not just the Home Run totals you have to replace.
Home runs have nothing to do with it.

[fadetoblack2880]

Don't forget the RBI and Runs Scored totals. I think Dunn has 91 RBIs with a month left in the season. He can get to 100+ RBIs pretty easy. And Dunn has close to 90 runs this season. It's not just the Home Run totals you have to replace.

I agree. At least there are two Dunn fans here.

[Degenerate39]

I agree. At least there are two Dunn fans here.

There are several Dunn fans on the board it just seems there are more people on here that don't like the guy.

[fadetoblack2880]

There are several Dunn fans on the board it just seems there are more people on here that don't like the guy.

I hope they pick up his option. I'm thinking they will.

[Degenerate39]

I hope they pick up his option. I'm thinking they will.

They would be crazy not to pick up the option

[fadetoblack2880]

They would be crazy not to pick up the option

No kidding. The lineup cannot afford to lose his offensive numbers.

[Muggerd]

No kidding. The lineup cannot afford to lose his offensive numbers.

I cant tell if this is a joke or not.

[mound_patrol]

I cant tell if this is a joke or not.

Why would that be a joke. He's the Reds best offensive player.

[Muggerd]

Why would that be a joke. He's the Reds best offensive player.

Because he really hasnt done much to help the reds win any games this road trip.

[fadetoblack2880]

Because he really hasnt done much to help the reds win any games this road trip.

Neither has Hopper, Majewski, or Stanton.

[Muggerd]

Neither has Hopper, Majewski, or Stanton.

Hopper has done a lot for a bench player if you ask me.

[Muggerd]

Remember you are the one putting Dunn in the same class as Majewski and Stanton though.

[fadetoblack2880]

I didn't disagree with you either. Even so, not picking up that option would be a mistake.

[Muggerd]

I didn't disagree with you either. Even so, not picking up that option would be a mistake.

I agree with picking up the option

[fadetoblack2880]

I agree with picking up the option

Granted, he does some things that really get to me, but until someone like Hamilton or Bruce steps up and replaces that offense, this team cannot afford to lose him.

[Muggerd]

Granted, he does some things that really get to me, but until someone like Hamilton or Bruce steps up and replaces that offense, this team cannot afford to lose him.

I dont disagree totally but I also think his production is a over rated by people on here.

[fadetoblack2880]

I dont disagree totally but I also think his production is a over rated by people on here.

I know, but it's not an easy task to replace 40+ homers and 90+ RBIs. I'm thinking it would be alot easier to find a decent defensive replacement.

[Ahhhorsepoo]

Why would that be a joke. He's the Reds best offensive player.


Is he the best? according to some numbers he may.. but according to the hank aaron award K-G is our best offensive player..

[Muggerd]

I know, but it's not an easy task to replace 40+ homers and 90+ RBIs. I'm thinking it would be alot easier to find a decent defensive replacement.

You cant really compare finding an offensive replacement and a defensive replacement

[mound_patrol]

Is he the best? according to some numbers he may.. but according to the hank aaron award K-G is our best offensive player..

Then that award must be avg and OBP driven. Other than that Jr has nothing on Dunn. Dunn has more RBIs, runs, HRs, higher OPS, 3 more stolen bases. So yeah he is the best. We all know awards dont get handed out fairly

[Muggerd]

Then that award must be avg and OBP driven. Other than that Jr has nothing on Dunn. Dunn has more RBIs, runs, HRs, higher OPS, 3 more stolen bases. So yeah he is the best. We all know awards dont get handed out fairly

I think the arguement should be Phillips v. Dunn more than Griffey v Dunn

[mound_patrol]

I think the arguement should be Phillips v. Dunn more than Griffey v Dunn

Phillips is having a great year, but he seriously lacks On-base skills and a high OPS. I'd love to see what Dunn would do if he could hit between Jr and himself all year long.

[Muggerd]

Phillips is having a great year, but he seriously lacks On-base skills and a high OPS. I'd love to see what Dunn would do if he could hit between Jr and himself all year long.

Well for the OBP he lack he brings a stolen base threat that isnt really figured into the equation by a lot of people.

Id like to see a line up of if i was going to change it. Dunn has never really been willing to put the ball into play by swinging at a pitch he cant crush, Phillips swings too much, and Griffey is pretty well balanced about the approach he takes.

If I was balancing the line up it would look like this:
Note it is a lot of what ifs included but generally it should look like this

1 (hopper, hamilton, keppinger)
2 (Hamilton, Keppinger, hatte) Hitters with solid bats and use the whole field when batting
3 Dunn - Dunn should be getting should be batting higher in the order to me because of the home runs he hits and the fact it fits his approach to the plate because of the walks and the awkward RISP numbers
4 Phillips - Phillips free swinging is solid enough to be driving guys in if Dunn cant knock one out and mop up for Dunn
5 Griffey - is Griffey
6 (Hamilton, Javy, hatte) very dependable to swing and put balls into play and giving normally good ABs (javy swings more but still) and have solid extra base hit power
7 (Gonzalez, Hamilton, Edwin, hopper, hatte) odd man spot where anyone really fits
8 (Edwin, Javy) - low in the order more RBI chances
9 Pitcher

It is pretty stupid looking when i put it down but it is all depending on who is playing.

[BLEEDS]

If money wasnt a factor I wouldnt get rid of him.

Money isn't a factor - especially when you consider what you would get in return FOR The money you'd "Save" by not keeping Dunn. You'd spend the same amount, and affect LESS wins on your team as a result.

You simply can't "replace" over 20% of your runs produced in your lineup. And yes, that DOES make him worth 1/5th of your Payroll.

And, I also disagree with this statement:


He is not a leader or a player to build around, but he will be a major contributor to any lineup.

He may not be a leader, but by all accounts he's a GREAT clubhouse guy and everbody ON THE TEAM likes him.

My beef is that hs SHOULD BE a guy you build around. 27 years old, and he's about to join a group of guys named Kiner, Snider, Banks, Killebrew, Griffey Jr., Rodriguez and Pujols as the only guys to have 4 consecutive years of 40 HRs in their 20's. You DO Build around a guy like that. You put him 4th, batting your K-G's of the world in front of him, and a better bat or two behind him.

If he was batting 4th, you'd see MORE production, and LESS BB's.
Any manager would bat him 4th, and poo-poo this Lefty-Righty-Lefty business.

In 2009, this would look VERY nice:

Hamilton - CF
Keppinger - SuperSub-3B/1B/SS
Phillips - 2B
Dunn - LF
Bruce - RF
EE/Votto -3B/1B * - depending upon Keppinger
Gonzo - SS
Ross - C

Dunn could play min 150 games per year for the next 5 years and put up 40+HRs/90-100+RBIs/80-100Rs/80-100BB before you had to worry about him breaking 32 Years old. He's be closing in on 500 HRs then. Yeah, I build AROUND that type of guy. But that's just me.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[Muggerd]

Hey BLEEDS

you continue to suggest that if we replace dunn with someone we lose 20% of our production and that who we bring will do nothing. The production of someone we bring in might not be 20% of what we currently have but its not going mean we will lose 20% and not regain some of it with another player.

Its like saying that we should bring in Arod and then try to make up the rest of the payroll with nobodies. Money is very much a factor.

[mound_patrol]

I think Phillips approach and swing makes him a better candidate to hit 5th. I would want both Dunn and Jr hitting in the first 4 spots.

As far as saving money and paying 8 million on someone else. I think that's a risk. With Dunn we know exactly what we are getting. I'd rather keep Dunn then get a guy like Gary Mathews Jr and hope he can match his contract year.

[Muggerd]

I think Phillips approach and swing makes him a better candidate to hit 5th. I would want both Dunn and Jr hitting in the first 4 spots.

As far as saving money and paying 8 million on someone else. I think that's a risk. With Dunn we know exactly what we are getting. I'd rather keep Dunn then get a guy like Gary Mathews Jr and hope he can match his contract year.

I think I would rather have Dunn 3rd because hes not reliable in situational hitting because he tends to walk.

Phillips 4th to split our lefties is the main reason behind the idea.

Its not even spending 8 million or what ever on a guy after a career year to fill dunns role. If we could save 5 or what ever million by paying someone to replace him and take a little hit in the offense part of the team to improve the rest of our team it might be what you have to do. If we could keep Dunn while putting more money into pitching and such then it would be a much easier decision. I dont know if any team in the market like the reds are in would ever show any consistent success running your team with the idea of keeping high priced players and just hoping it fixes itself.

[mound_patrol]

I think I would rather have Dunn 3rd because hes not reliable in situational hitting because he tends to walk.

Phillips 4th to split our lefties is the main reason behind the idea.

Its not even spending 8 million or what ever on a guy after a career year to fill dunns role. If we could save 5 or what ever million by paying someone to replace him and take a little hit in the offense part of the team to improve the rest of our team it might be what you have to do. If we could keep Dunn while putting more money into pitching and such then it would be a much easier decision. I dont know if any team in the market like the reds are in would ever show any consistent success running your team with the idea of keeping high priced players and just hoping it fixes itself.


The Reds don't have a bunch of high priced players. Dunn and Jr are the only high priced players. Harang and Arroyo are both going to get up there in price but All four of these players are bargains for what their production would cost in the free agent market

[Muggerd]

The Reds don't have a bunch of high priced players. Dunn and Jr are the only high priced players. Harang and Arroyo are both going to get up there in price but All four of these players are bargains for what their production would cost in the free agent market

:confused: Im not quite sure what you are getting at. Are you saying that we can pay more for players because we dont have other high priced players?

[GoReds33]

I agree with you. It's ok if Hopper messes up, apparently. It's a double standard.I think people just have different standards all together for Hopper and Dunn. I expect Dunn to hit 40 homers, and drive in 100. I expect Hopper to have alot of SBs and bunt hits. I also expect Hopper to make some mistakes. I agree fully with the double standard thing. I expect those kind of mistakes out of a second year MLB player, not Dunn. I do however think we are being pretty unfair.:)

[Muggerd]

I just cant handle mental mistakes from veterans.

[mound_patrol]

:confused: Im not quite sure what you are getting at. Are you saying that we can pay more for players because we dont have other high priced players?

im saying we dont have a lot of high priced players so yes you can afford to keep the few guys you have that are bringing in bigger contracts. That's the luxury of having a lot of young players.

[GoReds33]

So just because you can find other reasons that we lost its makes everything that Dunn screws up completely acceptable?

He can go 0-5 with 2 errors and we lose by 1 run and you guys would go out of your way to blame someone else. Just admit it. Im not the one being irrational here.We win and lose as a team. If Dunn screws up it is up to the rest of the Reds to make up for it. If Dunn hits a game winning homerun it he does it as part of a team. I think that individual performances are overrated.:)

[Muggerd]

im saying we dont have a lot of high priced players so yes you can afford to keep the few guys you have that are bringing in bigger contracts. That's the luxury of having a lot of young players.

With that logic you could say that the reds could afford to sign Arod and expect to succeed. It sounds good but I doesn't work when you are working on a budget. The reds cant expect to win and build a roster of good players surrounded by crap (pitching). It has to be balanced a little more. If we need to rob peter (offense) to pay paul (pitching) to give a better balance its what you have to do. You cant go out there hoping a couple guys carry your team. The reds are starting to get some depth in the system and starting to work like a low budget team so that could very well work in helping Dunn stay a Red but then again thats putting a lot of hope on youngsters. If Dunn is a part of the next few years I hope its not just because we signed him but because we also fixed other spots along the way.

Just please no long term deals of 5+ unless they are more balanced players like Phillips, Hamilton, Harang and such.

Also let me add, you dont have to have stars in every position you just need guys that are solid enough to not screw it up.

[Muggerd]

We win and lose as a team. If Dunn screws up it is up to the rest of the Reds to make up for it. If Dunn hits a game winning homerun it he does it as part of a team. I think that individual performances are overrated.:)

Maybe in little league.