PDA

View Full Version : McKanin was awful today



reds44
08-28-2007, 10:20 PM
1. Starting Jason Ellison in game 1
2. Taking Arroyo out after 80 pitches
3. Pitching Majewski in both games
4. Not using Bray to start the 7th
5. Not pinch hitting Dunn for Ellison in the 7th of game 1
6. Pinch hitting with Ellison in game 2

He looked alot like Narron today.

Boston Red
08-28-2007, 10:22 PM
Game thread theory on Arroyo is that he will go on three days rest on Saturday. Makles sense to me, since the Reds don't have a fifth starter, much less a sixth starter.

reds44
08-28-2007, 10:24 PM
Game thread theory on Arroyo is that he will go on three days rest on Saturday. Makles sense to me, since the Reds don't have a fifth starter, much less a sixth starter.
Then bring in Bray to start the 7th.
Or better yet bring Bray in to face the lefty Kata.

Bray, Burton, and Weathers haven't pitched since AT LEAST Sunday, if not before then.

Boston Red
08-28-2007, 10:25 PM
Don't disagree with that, but I don't mind taking Arroyo out.

reds44
08-28-2007, 10:25 PM
Not to mention the outs machines are back (Ross and Gonzalez).

Boston Red
08-28-2007, 10:27 PM
Ross/Jorgensen is a wash.

reds44
08-28-2007, 10:29 PM
Ross/Jorgensen is a wash.
I may even give Ross the edge which shows you how little I think of Jorgensen. Gonzalez should play over nobody though.

redsupport
08-28-2007, 10:42 PM
trying to be too cute
its bray in the 7th burton in the eighth, the moron wants to be the one who rehabilitates majewski at the expense of a double header loss. And Ellison equals angel bravo on a bad day

mroby85
08-28-2007, 10:52 PM
they said arroyo may have been injured.

redsfanfalcon
08-28-2007, 10:54 PM
Would someone tell Grande and Welsh that it looks like Arroyo is going to go on 3 days rest? Majewski has been a lot better lately, and I don't think I would call Mack a moron...I am just happy that the Reds are at least making it a little fun again.

TheBigLebowski
08-28-2007, 10:57 PM
At least the delusions of grandeur will cease after today.

Boston Red
08-28-2007, 10:58 PM
At least the delusions of grandeur will cease after today.

Game is not over yet.

Boston Red
08-28-2007, 11:04 PM
Now it's over. That was miserable.

Jefferson24
08-28-2007, 11:06 PM
Maybe tomorrow we can actually play our players that don't suck instead of letting them ride pine while we lose.

fewfirstchoice
08-28-2007, 11:06 PM
Does anybody think that the Reds will ever get a manager that can do his job,MANAGE.I mean here in the last 7 seasons the Reds havent has a manager that knew what he was doing,including Mack.
I wish the Reds would just get some body that could put a accurate lineup out there.I mean Narrons lineup was terrible and now Macks lineup is almost exactly the same.Didnt he see that Narron got fired for running that lineup out there.Neither can manage a bullpen either.The only wish I have is this.Please Cincinnati management bring in a Manager that can do his job mamage.But you know what its not going to happen.Bob C. and Wayne will give the job to Mack again and the Reds will continue to dwell in the bottom of the standings.Cincinnati will never again have a good manager anytime soon.
Saying this I am still wishing,praying,and hoping they realize that Mack isnt the answer and bring in someone that can do his job.If you have questions about what I have posted I can give proof to the terrible managing that Mack is doing.Sure,sure,sure the team ha a better record under him.But who wouldnt when they get out from under the wing of Narron.But to my proof.Just look at the highlights and the lineups Mack ran out there tonight.Then look at how he used his bullpen,just terrible.PLease Cincinnati get a good mamnger for your fans and team.We have the talent now just for someone to manage it and fix the lineup.Because mack sure as in the heck cant do it.Find someone who can.

Muggerd
08-28-2007, 11:06 PM
Im sure glad that Alan Cutler couldnt give him his 2 year deal

Muggerd
08-28-2007, 11:07 PM
Playing Ellison for Hamilton is the same as pinch hitting Castro for Hamilton, except that ellison bats multiple times.

AccordinglyReds
08-28-2007, 11:13 PM
Castro is better than Ellison anyway.

I don't care if it's a doubleheader, I just don't see the logic in putting Ellison in the starting lineup, and pinch-hitting him. C'mon. It's like this day threw away all hope that had been built up in these last few days.

fewfirstchoice
08-28-2007, 11:14 PM
Why does Mack think players have to have so much rest.The Reds just had a day off.If your players cant play 2 games and still perform you dont need them anyway.I know players need rest but heres my grip.The Reds are in sort of a playoff push and you need all the wins you can get.But instead of trying to win you play the players who will make you lose.You just came off a off day and all your player should have been ready to play both games.If they get tired later in the week then give them the day off then not right after your off day.Just terrible.He should have played JR,Dunn,and Hamilton in both games.Dont even stat me on the BP useage.Lets look at it postive.Maybe Wayne and Bob seen exactly how poor of a manager Mack is and will indeed get some who can manage this team in the offseason.Im just tired of seeing all the terrible lineups ran out there and the BP miss used daily.I mean he uses Stanton for 2 innings at a time.Stanton at most should come in as a situationial(spelling) lefty.But that my rant.Lets go Reds get a manager who can manage next year.

Jefferson24
08-28-2007, 11:14 PM
Well now that all hope is vanquished maybe we can finally get some playing time for the kids when they come up next week. That's all this season is good for at this point.

Cicero
08-28-2007, 11:16 PM
You put your best players out there and we did not. Ellison should not be in a major league uniform and Ross was a flash in the pan. You don't leave holes in your batting order and expect to win baseball games.

Muggerd
08-28-2007, 11:20 PM
So pete doesnt pull Elizardo in the 5th and then pulls Arroyo in the 6th. We should just start listing the awful moves today.

ochoa30
08-28-2007, 11:21 PM
Playing Ellison for Hamilton is the same as pinch hitting Castro for Hamilton, except that ellison bats multiple times.

I agree 100%. Not starting hamilton in either game is a disgrace. I haven't been this mad in a long time but when one of your best players sits the entire DH then something is wrong. Josh looked pretty good in his 2 AB's with lineouts to left but i guess those weak infield grounders by ellison are just to hard to pass up.

AccordinglyReds
08-28-2007, 11:22 PM
Arroyo ran out of gas.

Muggerd
08-28-2007, 11:22 PM
I agree 100%. Not starting hamilton in either game is a disgrace. I haven't been this mad in a long time but when one of your best players sits the entire DH then something is wrong. Josh looked pretty good in his 2 AB's with lineouts to left but i guess those weak infield grounders by ellison are just to hard to pass up.

at least Ellison got HBP once

ochoa30
08-28-2007, 11:23 PM
at least Ellison got HBP once

Yea, too bad it didnt knock him out of the game.

gedred69
08-28-2007, 11:29 PM
Mackanin just smashed his hopes of becoming the mgr. for next year. The line up choice was beyond pathetic. And why is Ellison even on the team, let alone, starting? Bring on Bruce. I have thought well of Krivsky, but there are some decisions that haven't been made. Jeezus, where is Votto?! Tell me Ellison should be here instead of Bruce!!! As fans we have the future to hope for. This season is gone. Why can't we have a look at the future? There is no reason that I can fathom. Give us something to see rather than just something to hope for. Or maybe, what we hope is coming isn't that good? I am not happy.:thumbdown

Jefferson24
08-28-2007, 11:33 PM
You put your best players out there and we did not. Ellison should not be in a major league uniform and Ross was a flash in the pan. You don't leave holes in your batting order and expect to win baseball games.

I agree about Ross. We should have made a better effort to get Salty. I don't think Ross or Javier are the answer for next year.

Mutaman
08-28-2007, 11:36 PM
I don't know what was worse the way the Reds played tonight or all the second guessing that went on over the game thread. I really don't think Jason Ellison is the reason this team is 12 games under .500.

Muggerd
08-28-2007, 11:37 PM
I don't know what was worse the way the Reds played tonight or all the second guessing that went on over the game thread. I really don't think Jason Ellison is the reason this team is 12 games under .500.

You dont think benching Hamilton for Ellison has any effect on the out come of the game?

gedred69
08-28-2007, 11:46 PM
You dont think benching Hamilton for Ellison has any effect on the out come of the game?

So well put, I have nothing to add, except the obvious extrapolation. Why sit a budding superstar, ----lefty-righty match-up be damned. Who gives a dump? Hamilton can hit anybody. Instead, put him in cold off the bench and hope for a miracle. Stupid, stupid, stupid.....

Muggerd
08-28-2007, 11:47 PM
I could understand sitting both Dunn and Hamilton if Ellison could hit lefties.

Mutaman
08-28-2007, 11:47 PM
You dont think benching Hamilton for Ellison has any effect on the out come of the game?

Not nearly as big an effect as giving up six runs in game one or being unable to hold the lead in game two. To repeat, offense is not this team's problem. And what's Josh hitting against lefties again? I realize there are those here who must have somebody to scapegoat and Castro is no longer around to fill that need, but this constant bashing of Ellison is pretty absurd.

Muggerd
08-28-2007, 11:48 PM
Also someone please inform me why Arroyo didnt start game 1? Is it because hes a cry baby and doesn't like to go to sleep at a reasonable time for a day game?

Muggerd
08-28-2007, 11:49 PM
Not nearly as big an effect as giving up six runs in game one or being unable to hold the lead in game two. To repeat, offense is not this team's problem. And what's Josh hitting against lefties again? I realize there are those here who must have somebody to scapegoat and Castro is no longer around to fill that need, but this constant bashing of Ellison is pretty absurd.

So you are willing to say that Ellison is better against lefties than Hamilton?

Cicero
08-28-2007, 11:49 PM
Not nearly as big an effect as giving up six runs in game one or being unable to hold the lead in game two. To repeat, offense is not this team's problem. And what's Josh hitting against lefties again? I realize there are those here who must have somebody to scapegoat and Castro is no longer around to fill that need, but this constant bashing of Ellison is pretty absurd.

The problem isn't Ellison, it's the fact that he is on a major league roster that creates the problem. Said problem is then exacerbated by the fact that said major league roster is ours.

Mutaman
08-28-2007, 11:55 PM
So you are willing to say that Ellison is better against lefties than Hamilton?

Of course not but playing him over Hamilton in game one and Hopper over Hamilton in game two is not the reason we got swept and doesn't warrant the continuous whining.

Muggerd
08-29-2007, 12:00 AM
Of course not but playing him over Hamilton in game one and Hopper over Hamilton in game two is not the reason we got swept and doesn't warrant the continuous whining.

What is the reason? Ellison surely didnt help us win any games. Sitting Dunn and Hamilton for Ellison didnt do much to help us win either. Hopper going what 7 for 9 and being unable to score didnt help us win either. Awful managing didnt help us win. Dunn being awful in the field surely didnt help us win.

Pick your reasons, or just call is continuous whining.

gedred69
08-29-2007, 12:02 AM
Not nearly as big an effect as giving up six runs in game one or being unable to hold the lead in game two. To repeat, offense is not this team's problem. And what's Josh hitting against lefties again? I realize there are those here who must have somebody to scapegoat and Castro is no longer around to fill that need, but this constant bashing of Ellison is pretty absurd.

Offense IS this team's problem because they can't overcome the mutton-headed decision for a line-up that took the field tonight. Ellison doesn't belong here. Where is Bruce? Oh, that's right, he isn't ready for the bigs yet, (he's soooo young). And Ellison is major-league material!!??!! One hit in 15 ABs, for a team that had an outside longshot? Pahhh-lease!

Mutaman
08-29-2007, 12:04 AM
What is the reason? Ellison surely didnt help us win any games. Sitting Dunn and Hamilton for Ellison didnt do much to help us win either. Hopper going what 7 for 9 and being unable to score didnt help us win either. Awful managing didnt help us win. Dunn being awful in the field surely didnt help us win.

Pick your reasons, or just call is continuous whining.

Its called "pitching".

Muggerd
08-29-2007, 12:04 AM
You are right Ellison isnt the reason we lost I was the person who put him in the line up.

Muggerd
08-29-2007, 12:05 AM
Its called "pitching".

pitching could explain the 6-4 loss but how does pitching explain a 3-2 loss?

and wouldnt you figure you would run your best offensive line up out there when you are pitching a bad pitcher?

jnwohio
08-29-2007, 12:08 AM
So pete doesnt pull Elizardo in the 5th and then pulls Arroyo in the 6th. We should just start listing the awful moves today.


From C.trent's blog it sounds like Arroyo asked out. You gotta admit they were just raring back and taking rips at him in the 6th. It was just a matter of time till somebody squared up on one. They really needed one more inning out of him; but I guess he just did not have it to give.

I thought they were a batter late getting Bray in. In the 8th I understand that he left Bray in to face Sanchez because he wanted him to face LaRoche.

Tha damage in the 7th and 8th was largely done on 2 strike pitches with the Reds ahead in the count (Kata, Sanchez, LaRoche). It looked to me like it was pretty close to a prayer meeting going on between Pete and Ross while they were waiting for Burton to get in from the pen. I know the starters all seem to love Ross as a receiver but he may think too much late in the game with the young relievers especially. Maybe it wasn't always totally Coffey's fault he was getting beat with his 4th best pitch on 2 strike counts. It certainly hasn't been happening nearly as much the last 3 weeks with Javy back there.

Muggerd
08-29-2007, 12:15 AM
I wonder why Arroyo was tired. :rolleyes:

I dont mind Bray facing who he faced, he has a good arm. Its just a shame Sanchez hit the ball to Dunn.

LaRoche got a lucky hit off the end of the bat that blooped its way through the infield.

Muggerd
08-29-2007, 12:20 AM
With that being said heres to hoping the reds start another winning streak tomorrow :bowrofl:

Mutaman
08-29-2007, 12:21 AM
pitching could explain the 6-4 loss but how does pitching explain a 3-2 loss?




When good teams take a lead into the 7th against one of the worst teams in baseball, they hold it. It has nothing to do with how bad the 25th player on the bench is.

Muggerd
08-29-2007, 12:22 AM
When good teams take a lead into the 7th against one of the worst teams in baseball, they hold it. It has nothing to do with how bad the 25th player on the bench is.
You are very correct the reds bullpen should never allow runs. Now lets blame a ERA of 3 as a reason we lost the game.

Muggerd
08-29-2007, 12:23 AM
I think the reason we lost the game is because we let them score runs. Good teams do not lose games.

Mutaman
08-29-2007, 12:30 AM
You are very correct the reds bullpen should never allow runs. Now lets blame a ERA of 3 as a reason we lost the game.

Actually in game 2, the bullpen gave up 2 runs in 2 innings. That's an ERA of 9.00.

Muggerd
08-29-2007, 12:36 AM
Actually in game 2, the bullpen gave up 2 runs in 2 innings. That's an ERA of 9.00.

I was talking more along the lines of a team ERA but if you want to blame the bullpen fine. I find it hard to blame anything but offense in a game where you score 2 runs on what 11 hits, with one of the RBIS coming from your starting pitcher.

DeadRedinCT
08-29-2007, 10:50 AM
1. Starting Jason Ellison in game 1
2. Taking Arroyo out after 80 pitches
3. Pitching Majewski in both games
4. Not using Bray to start the 7th
5. Not pinch hitting Dunn for Ellison in the 7th of game 1
6. Pinch hitting with Ellison in game 2

He looked alot like Narron today.

Pretty much spot on. In fact, Mackanin hasn't been sharp in the last few games. He completely mishandled Belisle's start on Saturday - his line in the boxscore simply doesn't do him justice. What should have been an 11-1 cakewalk turned into something else.

What I didn't understand, was why take out Gosling after one inning in Game 1? I think it would have been prudent to try to get another inning out of him. That way you don't use three relievers, including Majewski, to get through game 1. Of course, if he pinch hits for Ellison with Dunn in the 7th, as stated by Reds44, the Reds would have used three pitchers anway but in a possible win.

I was on the train saying Mackanin should have the interim tag removed. But after the last few games in which the Reds a tiny sliver of a chance of making the playoffs, I'm not so sure anymore.

INRedsFan
08-29-2007, 11:01 AM
The bottom line is that the Reds had put together a win streak of 6 games. When you do this you keep putting your best team on the field. Benching Hamilton after a days rest makes no sense at all. Yesterday was not the day to experiment.

MaineRed
08-29-2007, 12:26 PM
The line-ups in both games were absurd. We had 50% of our top four hitters in each game.

Do teams sit half of their best righthanders when we throw our rightys at them? NO!

Apparently if Mackanin managed the Orioles back in the 80s Cal Ripken would have been lucky to play 4 days a week.