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paulrichjr
08-30-2007, 02:57 PM
I am starting this thread to whine. I know no one does that here at Redszone but I thought I would try something new. Why is it that the Yankees can decide 2-3 years ago that they are going to focus on the minors once again and within a couple of years names such as Joba Chamberlin, Phillip Hughes, and soon it appears others not only start coming up from the minors but start really contrbuting right off of the bat. Then you have what many consider to be the top pitching prospect in baseball (Homer) hurt and doesn't appear to be anywhere close to as polished as these guys. I'm not giving up on Homer (not at all) I just wonder how a team can go from what many considered to be the worst farm system in baseball to one that has produced 2 incredible talents in the same year....and the beat goes on in Cincy.

I know the easy answer is money but it is hard to say that is what it is when both of the above guys were available in the draft and virtually every team passed them up. Do the Yanks just do a lot better training in the minors (recently)?

dougdirt
08-30-2007, 03:11 PM
Well the Yankees spent a million dollars each of the past two seasons to sign lower round draft picks. Hughes and Chamberlain were both first round picks.

Chamberlain has 2 pitches right now, both are very good. His last year in college though he was fat, out of shape and not throwing as hard as he once had. He fell down draft boards becuase of it.

Hughes, you say is polished and all....5.35 ERA and lots of HR so far suggests otherwise.

NJReds
08-30-2007, 03:14 PM
To follow on what Doug is saying. On the Yankee broadcast they were talking about this as Joba was mowing down Red Sox hitters. The Yankees can take chances on guys like Joba (who are falling on draft boards) or like Brackman because they can cover up their mistakes in the Free Agent market. So they can go with high-risk, high-reward like players. The Reds can't.

dougdirt
08-30-2007, 03:17 PM
Let me also say that I like Hughes future potential, but his fastball seems to be slowing down lately and has me concerned right now.

Triples
08-30-2007, 03:21 PM
Its seems you would also have to take into account that the Yankees never exactly moth balled their farm system, they simply seldom promoted anyone from the minors to the major. Choosing instead to either buy a free agent veteren player or trade away some of their strong minor leaguers for top shelf (and expensive) veteran players that were no longer affordable by the teams they had currently played for. I have not done any research to back this up but I think you would find that the Yanks signed most of their draft picks and a high % of them were quite good. As a result, when they decided to go (somewhat) with a youth movement their farm system wasn't void of talent.

It would be interesting to see how many top 10 round picks of the Yankees over say the last 5-8 years are now starters somewhere else.

nmculbreth
08-30-2007, 03:25 PM
Chamberlain has 2 pitches right now, both are very good. His last year in college though he was fat, out of shape and not throwing as hard as he once had. He fell down draft boards becuase of it.


And if memory serves correct there was a lot of concern about his injury history and long term durability.

Joseph
08-30-2007, 03:54 PM
It would be interesting to see how many top 10 round picks of the Yankees over say the last 5-8 years are now starters somewhere else.

Top 10 round picks from the yankees going back to 1998 show only a few names who even appeared in the bigs, much less started or starred.

Randy Flores
Scott Wiggins
Randy Choate
Tyrell Godwin
randy Kiesler
Andy Phillips
matt Smith
Shelley Duncan
Tyler Clippard
Phil Hughes
Joba Chamberlain
Ian Kennedy

Just to compare to the Reds in that same period:

Homer Bailey
Ryan Wagner
Dustin Mosely
Ryan Snare
Dane Sardhina [1 game]
Ben Broussard
Scott Dunn
Adam Dunn
Austin Kearns
Bobby Madritsch
Josh Hall

dougdirt
08-30-2007, 04:07 PM
And if memory serves correct there was a lot of concern about his injury history and long term durability.

Also correct. It was a gamble by the Yankees, and so far it paid off bigtime.

Falls City Beer
08-30-2007, 04:13 PM
Top 10 round picks from the yankees going back to 1998 show only a few names who even appeared in the bigs, much less started or starred.

Randy Flores
Scott Wiggins
Randy Choate
Tyrell Godwin
randy Kiesler
Andy Phillips
matt Smith
Shelley Duncan
Tyler Clippard
Phil Hughes
Joba Chamberlain
Ian Kennedy

Just to compare to the Reds in that same period:

Homer Bailey
Ryan Wagner
Dustin Mosely
Ryan Snare
Dane Sardhina [1 game]
Ben Broussard
Scott Dunn
Adam Dunn
Austin Kearns
Bobby Madritsch
Josh Hall


Yep. Yankees and Reds have pumped more garbage out of their minors in the last ten years than Metro Sewage.

Just goes to prove that you CAN win it with FAs.

dougdirt
08-30-2007, 04:31 PM
Yep. Yankees and Reds have pumped more garbage out of their minors in the last ten years than Metro Sewage.

Just goes to prove that you CAN win it with FAs (if you have a 120 million dollar payroll).

Fixed that for ya.

Triples
08-30-2007, 04:35 PM
So much for that theory!!


Yep. Yankees and Reds have pumped more garbage out of their minors in the last ten years than Metro Sewage.

Just goes to prove that you CAN win it with FAs.

Triples
08-30-2007, 04:36 PM
So much for that theory!! :beerme:


Top 10 round picks from the yankees going back to 1998 show only a few names who even appeared in the bigs, much less started or starred.

Randy Flores
Scott Wiggins
Randy Choate
Tyrell Godwin
randy Kiesler
Andy Phillips
matt Smith
Shelley Duncan
Tyler Clippard
Phil Hughes
Joba Chamberlain
Ian Kennedy

Just to compare to the Reds in that same period:

Homer Bailey
Ryan Wagner
Dustin Mosely
Ryan Snare
Dane Sardhina [1 game]
Ben Broussard
Scott Dunn
Adam Dunn
Austin Kearns
Bobby Madritsch
Josh Hall

NJReds
08-30-2007, 09:37 PM
Yep. Yankees and Reds have pumped more garbage out of their minors in the last ten years than Metro Sewage.

Just goes to prove that you CAN win it with FAs.

Yanks have:
Chamberlain
Hughes
Kennedy (on Sat.)
Pettitte
E. Ramirez
Rivera
Wang
Posada
Cano
Duncan
Jeter
Phillips
Cabrera

On the 25 man that were from their system. Almost 50%. Not bad.

Drafting is more that just the first round.

GoReds33
08-30-2007, 10:16 PM
And if memory serves correct there was a lot of concern about his injury history and long term durability.He has been injured a couple times this year. He still has alot to prove. I think he could be the number 4 pitcher in baseball... right behind Harang, Bailey, and Cueto. Maybe he will be just ahead of Arroyo and Belisle.:)

LoganBuck
08-30-2007, 10:48 PM
At the end of Lance's show today, he said that Andrew Brackman will undergo Tommy John Surgery and be out 12-18 months.

fearofpopvol1
08-31-2007, 05:36 PM
I'd like to see the Reds pry Tyler Clippard away from the Yanks. I feel like it could be done somewhat easily and I think he has the potential to be a very good pitcher. His delivery is very deceptive and he showed signs of promise at the ML level.