PDA

View Full Version : How many runs can Adam Dunn cost the Reds tonight?



reds44
08-30-2007, 09:11 PM
Current Count: 3

REDblooded
08-30-2007, 09:12 PM
just awful

Degenerate39
08-30-2007, 09:14 PM
Can't watch the game and there's no PBP in the Game Thread so I don't know what's up with Dunn. Yesterday when he was rounding first he stumbled a bit and he looked like he was in pain. Maybe he's injured and hasn't told anyone? My guess is as good as yours

reds44
08-30-2007, 09:14 PM
Can't watch the game and there's no PBP in the Game Thread so I don't know what's up with Dunn. Yesterday when he was rounding first he stumbled a bit and he looked like he was in pain. Maybe he's injured and hasn't told anyone? My guess is as good as yours
Not sure what him being hurt would have to do with him missing third base and booting two balls in LF.

One of the more impressive things I have seen in awhile.

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 09:16 PM
Not sure what him being hurt would have to do with him missing third base and booting two balls in LF.

One of the more impressive things I have seen in awhile.

He will make excuses for Dunn all day long.

reds44
08-30-2007, 09:17 PM
Oh and Edwin gets robbed of a basehit and two RBIs.

roby
08-30-2007, 09:18 PM
Herman Dunnster strikes again! Have you ever seen anything like him??:thumbdown

Degenerate39
08-30-2007, 09:18 PM
Not sure what him being hurt would have to do with him missing third base and booting two balls in LF.

One of the more impressive things I have seen in awhile.

Just saying it's a possibility. Dunn usually kills the Pirates there's got to be something wrong.

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 09:18 PM
Oh and Edwin gets robbed of a basehit and two RBIs.

Simply amazing.

REDblooded
08-30-2007, 09:18 PM
Since you can't see it, I'll break it down for you. Dunn booted two balls in one inning. That cost 1 run. Then, with 2 out in the 4th, EE comes up clutch and delivers what should have been a 2 run single. Dunn doesn't touch third, and passes third before Griffey scores. So the appeal is made, and Dunn is out at third, which also negates the Griffey score. It was a thing of beauty.

Sham
08-30-2007, 09:19 PM
Current Count: 3

Actually it could be alot more than that as there should have been 2 men on with 2 outs when Dunn brain crapped the inning away. Big dope.

REDblooded
08-30-2007, 09:19 PM
and....it looked like he was running just fine when he blew by third.

reds44
08-30-2007, 09:19 PM
Since you can't see it, I'll break it down for you. Dunn booted two balls in one inning. That cost 1 run. Then, with 2 out in the 4th, EE comes up clutch and delivers what should have been a 2 run single. Dunn doesn't touch third, and passes third before Griffey scores. So the appeal is made, and Dunn is out at third, which also negates the Griffey score. It was a thing of beauty.
It doesn't matter when Griffey scored because it turned into a force out.

reds44
08-30-2007, 09:20 PM
Actually it could be alot more than that as there should have been 2 men on with 2 outs when Dunn brain crapped the inning away. Big dope.
With the pitcher coming up, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Sham
08-30-2007, 09:20 PM
Just saying it's a possibility. Dunn usually kills the Pirates there's got to be something wrong.

What is a possibility, that pain from his ankle made him miss the bag?

Sham
08-30-2007, 09:21 PM
With the pitcher coming up, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.


Good point.

Degenerate39
08-30-2007, 09:22 PM
What is a possibility, that pain from his ankle made him miss the bag?

Who knows there's no excuse for that but I wouldn't be surprised if there was something wrong.

reds44
08-30-2007, 09:22 PM
Interesting point from Wheelhouse.



The call is wrong. The runner is not out until, on the following play, the pitcher throws to the third baseman and he tags the bag. At that point Griffey has already scored. Look at it this way: why the necessity for the appeal? Why can't the ump just call the runner out for missing the bag? Dumb call.

I don't the answer to that one. He is right. The Pirates have to step on the mound, and essentially start a new play for the appeal.

reds44
08-30-2007, 09:22 PM
Who knows there's no excuse for that but I wouldn't be surprised if there was something wrong.
He's fine.

Dumb, but fine.

Vada Pinson Fan
08-30-2007, 09:24 PM
If he missed third and the video was inconclusive; what a bone-head mistake by A.D. He runs too slowly to miss 3rd base. What a shame for E.E. to lose his hit and 2rbi's.

Let's hope Dunn makes up for this huge mistake, and makes up for it in tonight's game when it is most needed!

Unbelievable...

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 09:24 PM
Holy cow are people really trying to make excuses for Dunn here? No possible way.

FlightRick
08-30-2007, 09:26 PM
The Stat Wanker in me says: "Adam Dunn has 98 Runs Created this season and, therefore, is the Reds' best player."

The Non-Stat Wanker in me says: "The fact that Dunn's Runns Created didn't just immediately and without prejudice go down by 3 is why Runs Created is a lame stat and the precise reason why I don't entirely trust anything my Inner Stat Wanker says."

The Cow says: "Moo."

Degenerate39
08-30-2007, 09:26 PM
If he missed third and the video was inconclusive; what a bone-head mistake by A.D. He runs too slowly to miss 3rd base. What a shame for E.E. to lose his hit and 2rbi's.

Let's hope Dunn makes up for this huge mistake, and makes up for it in tonight's game when it is most needed!

Unbelievable...

He won't he's not clutch

Fil3232
08-30-2007, 09:28 PM
I say release him tomorrow!!!!!

reds44
08-30-2007, 09:28 PM
The Stat Wanker in me says: "Adam Dunn has 98 Runs Created this season and, therefore, is the Reds' best player."

The Non-Stat Wanker in me says: "The fact that Dunn's Runns Created didn't just immediately and without prejudice go down by 3 is why Runs Created is a lame stat and the precise reason why I don't entirely trust anything my Inner Stat Wanker says."

The Cow says: "Moo."
What does him leading the Reds in runs created have to do with this?

GoReds33
08-30-2007, 09:30 PM
I have a question. How does it take the announcers...Grande and Welsh... so long to understand this ruleing. I knew what happened as the umpire called Dunn out at third.

mound_patrol
08-30-2007, 09:30 PM
I'm just glad we can now agree that one really bad game defines Dunn's career. Good grief people move on.

reds44
08-30-2007, 09:30 PM
I'm just glad we can now agree that one really bad game defines Dunn's career. Good grief people move on.
What?

Who said that? I sure didn't.

Fil3232
08-30-2007, 09:30 PM
What does him leading the Reds in runs created have to do with this?

I think the fact that there aren't other threads started when, say, Javier Valentin K's with a man on 3rd and 1 out. Or when Belisle allows a two out base hit to score a run. Dunn made a mistake. It happens. But yet he is getting grilled like none other.

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 09:31 PM
Its ok that Dunn messed up, he hits 40 homers and drives in 90 rbis. Guys I will never understand why you want to talk about his mistakes.

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 09:32 PM
I think the fact that there aren't other threads started when, say, Javier Valentin K's with a man on 3rd and 1 out. Or when Belisle allows a two out base hit to score a run. Dunn made a mistake. It happens. But yet he is getting grilled like none other.
There is a little bit of a difference here.

reds44
08-30-2007, 09:32 PM
I think the fact that there aren't other threads started when, say, Javier Valentin K's with a man on 3rd and 1 out. Or when Belisle allows a two out base hit to score a run. Dunn made a mistake. It happens. But yet he is getting grilled like none other.
There's a difference between the things you mentioned, and booting TWO balls in LF and missing 3rd base and costing your team two runs in 4 innings.

I'm an Adam Dunn fun, but I am also not a blind homer. That's just horrible.

Degenerate39
08-30-2007, 09:32 PM
I think the fact that there aren't other threads started when, say, Javier Valentin K's with a man on 3rd and 1 out. Or when Belisle allows a two out base hit to score a run. Dunn made a mistake. It happens. But yet he is getting grilled like none other.

It's a way of life here

mound_patrol
08-30-2007, 09:33 PM
Its ok that Dunn messed up, he hits 40 homers and drives in 90 rbis. Guys I will never understand why you want to talk about his mistakes.

Good I'm glad you finally see it. The big picture says Dunn does a lot of good. But one really bad game and it's "see I told you he sucks"

reds44
08-30-2007, 09:33 PM
Good I'm glad you finally see it. The big picture says Dunn does a lot of good. But one really bad game and it's "[B]see I told you he sucks"
WHO said that?

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 09:34 PM
It is amazing how you guys will never bash Dunn. Its simply amazing. You think that if any other player had the night Dunn is having we wouldnt bash him? You think its just because its Dunn?

mound_patrol
08-30-2007, 09:34 PM
There's a difference between the things you mentioned, and booting TWO balls in LF and missing 3rd base and costing your team two runs in 4 innings.

I'm an Adam Dunn fun, but I am also not a blind homer. That's just horrible.

I don't think anyone is saying he hasnt screwed up badly tonight. I'm just saying move on. get over it. The sun will rise tomorrow and Dunn will have much better days as will the reds.

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 09:34 PM
Good I'm glad you finally see it. The big picture says Dunn does a lot of good. But one really bad game and it's "see I told you he sucks"
WHO said that?

its just what the blind Dunn lovers think we say when pointing out a mistake by Dunn. Best case scenario is to ignore it.

reds44
08-30-2007, 09:35 PM
I don't think anyone is saying he hasnt screwed up badly tonight. I'm just saying move on. get over it. The sun will rise tomorrow and Dunn will have much better days as will the reds.
You act like we have been talking about for weeks.

It's been 20 minutes.

REDblooded
08-30-2007, 09:35 PM
LOL.....................but every dunn hugger can point scoreboard the moment he hits a HR? Unbelievable. Sorry, You can't have it both ways. The thing is, Dunn makes these types of mistakes W A Y A Y A Y A Y A YYYYYYYY (that has an echo) more often than is reasonable.

Anybody wanna chip in and buy him a lifetime supply of Focus Factor?

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 09:35 PM
I don't think anyone is saying he hasnt screwed up badly tonight. I'm just saying move on. get over it. The sun will rise tomorrow and Dunn will have much better days as will the reds.

Amazing

reds44
08-30-2007, 09:35 PM
[QUOTE=reds44;1455769]

its just what the blind Dunn lovers think we say when pointing out a mistake by Dunn. Best case scenario is to ignore it.
I'M A DUNN LOVER.

How somebody could make excuses for this is beyond me.

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 09:37 PM
[QUOTE=Muggerd;1455772]
I'M A DUNN LOVER.

How somebody could make excuses for this is beyond me.

Im not talking about the reasonable Dunn fans. Its the ones that refuse to acknowledge his mistakes, and when someone points them out they are quick to say how stupid someone is.

Vada Pinson Fan
08-30-2007, 09:38 PM
I have a question. How does it take the announcers...Grande and Welsh... so long to understand this ruleing. I knew what happened as the umpire called Dunn out at third.

It wasn't only Grande and Welsh; the Official Scorer didn't immmediatley know nor have the answer until minutes later.

An unusual play to be sure....

...unfortunately at the Reds expense.

mound_patrol
08-30-2007, 09:41 PM
[QUOTE=reds44;1455777]

Im not talking about the reasonable Dunn fans. Its the ones that refuse to acknowledge his mistakes, and when someone points them out they are quick to say how stupid someone is.

And I'm in no way saying Dunn hasnt screwed up. I just think its rediculous to ridicule the guy the way you are.

reds44
08-30-2007, 09:42 PM
1st and 2nd nobody out.

What will he do?

mound_patrol
08-30-2007, 09:43 PM
1st and 2nd nobody out.

What will he do?

I hope he hits a homerun to help make up for the day.

Vada Pinson Fan
08-30-2007, 09:45 PM
Dunn on the basepaths again.....

LOOKOUT

reds44
08-30-2007, 09:45 PM
He walks.

Good by me.

mound_patrol
08-30-2007, 09:45 PM
I hope he hits a homerun to help make up for the day.

According to Muggerd that was a bad atbat by Dunn. He didnt swing at a pitch out of the zone and drive in a run. How dare he walk.

FlightRick
08-30-2007, 09:51 PM
I don't the answer to that one. He is right. The Pirates have to step on the mound, and essentially start a new play for the appeal.

From the MLB Rulebook, 7.10.d (my bolding):

"Any appeal under this rule must be made before the next pitch, or any play or attempted play. If the violation occurs during a play which ends a half-inning, the appeal must be made before the defensive team leaves the field.

An appeal is not to be interpreted as a play or an attempted play."

The umps got it right, as I assumed they would even after we cut to an ad break being told the score was 1-1.



What does him leading the Reds in runs created have to do with this?

Umm. It doesn't really. Which was kind of the point of me making the humorous juxtaposition of a Stat Wanker and a Non-Stat Wanker having a dialogue about the (lack of?) value of "Runs Created" in the absence in a "Runs Cost" stat.

It becomes less-humorous when dissected and explained. This is clearly my fault for using Actual Verbiage instead of sentence fragments and 8 different smiley face emoticons to attempt a "joke." Please accept my apology....

Vada Pinson Fan
08-30-2007, 09:52 PM
Even with all of his warts, so to speak, the Reds need Adam Dunn. I don't see that changing and quite frankly, I'm glad. He's a BIG GOOF sometimes, but darn it, he's our BIG GOOF!!!
:)

reds44
08-30-2007, 09:52 PM
From the MLB Rulebook, 7.10.d (my bolding):

"Any appeal under this rule must be made before the next pitch, or any play or attempted play. If the violation occurs during a play which ends a half-inning, the appeal must be made before the defensive team leaves the field.

An appeal is not to be interpreted as a play or an attempted play."

The umps got it right, as I assumed they would even after we cut to an ad break being told the score was 1-1.



Umm. It doesn't really. Which was kind of the point of me making the humorous juxtaposition of a Stat Wanker and a Non-Stat Wanker having a dialogue about the (lack of?) value of "Runs Created" in the absence in a "Runs Cost" stat.

It becomes less-humorous when dissected and explained. This is clearly my fault for using Actual Verbiage instead of sentence fragments and 8 different smiley face emoticons to attempt a "joke." Please accept my apology....
Ok. You're right then.

Umps we're correct.

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 09:53 PM
According to Muggerd that was a bad atbat by Dunn. He didnt swing at a pitch out of the zone and drive in a run. How dare he walk.

Are you on drugs?

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 09:55 PM
[QUOTE=Muggerd;1455782]

And I'm in no way saying Dunn hasnt screwed up. I just think its rediculous to ridicule the guy the way you are.

no the only thing ridiculous here is the fact that you are trying to find a reason to make excuses for him.

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 09:56 PM
I hope he hits a homerun to help make up for the day.

Nothing will make up for taking 2 runs away from your team.

reds44
08-30-2007, 09:58 PM
Nothing will make up for taking 2 runs away from your team.
I would say if you drive in more then 2 it does.

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 10:00 PM
I would say if you drive in more then 2 it does.

The fact that those runs are off the board makes them impossible to get back or make up. Sure Dunn could get 2 rbis later in the game but it doesnt change the fact that the reds should be up 5-2 right now.

AccordinglyReds
08-30-2007, 10:01 PM
Nothing will make up for taking 2 runs away from your team.

....And complaining about it will not get the runs back.

mound_patrol
08-30-2007, 10:02 PM
I would say if you drive in more then 2 it does.

Dunn gave up 2 runs. He will forever be held against this night. He can NEVER make it up.

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 10:03 PM
....And complaining about it will not get the runs back.

Are you trying to make a point?

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 10:05 PM
Dunn gave up 2 runs. He will forever be held against this night. He can NEVER make it up.

So if Dunn hits a 2 run homer tomorrow it makes up for it?

reds44
08-30-2007, 10:07 PM
The fact that those runs are off the board makes them impossible to get back or make up. Sure Dunn could get 2 rbis later in the game but it doesnt change the fact that the reds should be up 5-2 right now.
I would say -2+2=0.

He would have made up for it.

Really, I don't care as long as the Reds win.

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 10:07 PM
Really how can you guys continue to try to make me out to be the bad guy?

mound_patrol
08-30-2007, 10:08 PM
Dunn didnt give up 2 runs. He cost the reds 2 runs because hes too stupid to realize when you miss a base you can stop and tag it.

Now you are personally attacking Dunn. What evidence do you have that Adam Dunn is a stupid individual? Don't make such claims when you don't know the guy. You act like no one has ever missed a bag before. He's not the first. Sure its a bad play but again it doesnt define Dunn's career or who he is as a player. But stop with the attacks of Dunn and other people. It's quite annoying.

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 10:09 PM
I would say -2+2=0.

He would have made up for it.

Really, I don't care as long as the Reds win.

Yea he can get 2 rbis in the game and it would erase the mistake in theory but its still something you cant make up. Those 2 runs are still not going to be made up.

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 10:11 PM
Now you are personally attacking Dunn. What evidence do you have that Adam Dunn is a stupid individual? Don't make such claims when you don't know the guy. You act like no one has ever missed a bag before. He's not the first. Sure its a bad play but again it doesnt define Dunn's career or who he is as a player. But stop with the attacks of Dunn and other people. It's quite annoying.

So just because someone else made the mistake once again it makes it ok for Dunn to make it? Gotta love that the Dunn lovers chose to make excuses for Dunn instead of admitting that it was a stupid mistake and is inexcusable one to make.

REDblooded
08-30-2007, 10:13 PM
Now you are personally attacking Dunn. What evidence do you have that Adam Dunn is a stupid individual? Don't make such claims when you don't know the guy. You act like no one has ever missed a bag before. He's not the first. Sure its a bad play but again it doesnt define Dunn's career or who he is as a player. But stop with the attacks of Dunn and other people. It's quite annoying.

You act like it's just missing a bag. It's not. It's also booting two balls in one inning in the same game. It's the mental mishaps that Dunn has become quite famous for that define Dunn, and that's his doing. You can continue to use simple-minded logic all you want to try to hide his shortcomings, but it's not gonna work. Sorry.

mound_patrol
08-30-2007, 10:13 PM
Now you are personally attacking Dunn. What evidence do you have that Adam Dunn is a stupid individual? Don't make such claims when you don't know the guy. You act like no one has ever missed a bag before. He's not the first. Sure its a bad play but again it doesnt define Dunn's career or who he is as a player. But stop with the attacks of Dunn and other people. It's quite annoying.

Yes I can admit he made a mistake. I know he has been terrible in this game. And i know he will be better next time around.

Goodnight people. Go Reds.

jimbo
08-30-2007, 10:13 PM
I'M A DUNN LOVER.

How somebody could make excuses for this is beyond me.

Just as you don't see anyone bashing Dunn here, I don't see anyone making excuses. The difference here is that some are trying to find possible reasoning behind the mistakes while others consider that "making excuses" for him. Too many automatically want to jump the gun and start bashing before trying to possibly find some reasoning for the mistakes. In my book, that's not trying to come up with an "excuse."

I thought it was an excellent point that somebody made that he possibly may be hurt. IF his knee is hurting, it very well could alter his baserunning for example, especially if he is favoring the inured knee. Dunn is generally a good baserunner, so that is not entirely out of the realm of possibility.

I'm not at all advocating looking past his three major mistakes tonight, but let's at least see if there is something behind them. Sometimes there's more than meets the eye.

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 10:14 PM
Dunn made a stupid and bonehead play that is just another in a long long list of bonehead plays.

He is also a good offensive threat.

Does that make you guys happy?

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 10:17 PM
I really dont know how a sore knee could explain a guy missing a ground ball or explain missing a bag.

jimbo
08-30-2007, 10:19 PM
I really dont know how a sore knee could explain a guy missing a ground ball or explain missing a bag.

Try bashing your knee with a baseball bat and see if you can still run or do anything physical in the same exact way that you did before.

Degenerate39
08-30-2007, 10:25 PM
Just as you don't see anyone bashing Dunn here, I don't see anyone making excuses. The difference here is that some are trying to find possible reasoning behind the mistakes while others consider that "making excuses" for him. Too many automatically want to jump the gun and start bashing before trying to possibly find some reasoning for the mistakes. In my book, that's not trying to come up with an "excuse."

I thought it was an excellent point that somebody made that he possibly may be hurt. IF his knee is hurting, it very well could alter his baserunning for example, especially if he is favoring the inured knee. Dunn is generally a good baserunner, so that is not entirely out of the realm of possibility.

I'm not at all advocating looking past his three major mistakes tonight, but let's at least see if there is something behind them. Sometimes there's more than meets the eye.

That's where I was going earlier in the thread. I think it could be possible that Dunn could've injured something yesterday. I hope he's just having a bad game. Chances are he's not hurt but it's still not out of the realm of possibility.

Also, I've had a few knee injuries the last 2 years. I couldn't run at all so I'm sure the same could be said for a pro athlete.

REDblooded
08-30-2007, 10:37 PM
Try bashing your knee with a baseball bat and see if you can still run or do anything physical in the same exact way that you did before.


I'm pretty sure the only explanation for missing the bag, in a physical sense, would be if you bashed your HEAD with a baseball bat, and then saw if you could still run...........................

Sorry man. It was a mental lapse. He's not running with any type of hitch tonight. Trying to find a reasonable explanation for it, is the same thing as trying to make an excuse for it when it's pretty obvious that the problem was in between the ears, and not elsewhere.

jimbo
08-30-2007, 10:42 PM
I'm pretty sure the only explanation for missing the bag, in a physical sense, would be if you bashed your HEAD with a baseball bat, and then saw if you could still run...........................

Sorry man. It was a mental lapse. He's not running with any type of hitch tonight. Trying to find a reasonable explanation for it, is the same thing as trying to make an excuse for it when it's pretty obvious that the problem was in between the ears, and not elsewhere.

Well, I just disagree. Having one injured wheel will cause you to alter the way you run. That is fact.

We just see it differently. Bashing a player before they know the facts behind an incident happens here all of the time. Rushing to judgement just isn't my style.

Will EE get trashed here for his baserunning mistake? Highly doubtful.

kbrake
08-30-2007, 10:43 PM
About the thread I figured I would get when I got home tonight. He has had a horrible night. He is still 10 times the base runner that Ryan Freel is yet that never gets attention. This is the worst game I can ever remember Dunn having. Like Mound said though it is foolish to let that define his season.

SMcGavin
08-30-2007, 10:53 PM
1. Dunn messed up bad (I think, since the replay doesn't show whether he hit the bag or not).
2. If we lose the game by one, it would be fair to blame Dunn for this loss.
3. He's still the best player on the Reds not named Aaron Harang.

Get over it people. I can't stand the threads started just bashing somebody for making a mistake. It's not just Dunn, I think that even when they are about somebody who is actually bad like Stanton.

REDblooded
08-30-2007, 10:58 PM
best player not named Harang? I'm guessing you've never watched a Reds game. That's the only reason I can think of for not knowing who Brandon Phillips is.

SMcGavin
08-30-2007, 11:01 PM
best player not named Harang? I'm guessing you've never watched a Reds game. That's the only reason I can think of for not knowing who Brandon Phillips is.

Brandon Phillips is a very good player on a tremendous tear right now. He is not Adam Dunn.

REDblooded
08-30-2007, 11:04 PM
Brandon Phillips is a very good player on a tremendous tear right now. He is not Adam Dunn.

Yup. You're right. He happens to bring a glove to the ballpark.

The Snow Chief
08-30-2007, 11:07 PM
Brandon Phillips is a very good player on a tremendous tear right now. He is not Adam Dunn.

I think your comparison is based on purely offensive numbers. I don't think that is necessarily the way to go. Brandon Phillips is putting up great numbers at 2b, a position where you do not traditionally get power from. I look at it this way, how many 2b would you take for Phillips? I can count that on one hand. How many LF would you take for Dunn, I could not count that on one hand. Phillips does so many other valuable things such as play an important defensive position well and gives you great speed on the basepaths.

I would argue Phillips is the best Reds position player with Adam Dunn being the Reds' second best.

REDblooded
08-30-2007, 11:13 PM
Case in point......Dunn tries his best to lose the game tonight. Phillips makes sure the Reds win it. Goodnight now.

SMcGavin
08-30-2007, 11:14 PM
I think your comparison is based on purely offensive numbers. I don't think that is necessarily the way to go. Brandon Phillips is putting up great numbers at 2b, a position where you do not traditionally get power from. I look at it this way, how many 2b would you take for Phillips? I can count that on one hand. How many LF would you take for Dunn, I could not count that on one hand. Phillips does so many other valuable things such as play an important defensive position well and gives you great speed on the basepaths.

I would argue Phillips is the best Reds position player with Adam Dunn being the Reds' second best.

You make a reasonable argument. He defends very well and actually uses his speed on the basepaths well, unlike some other Reds. A big part of the reason I prefer Dunn is that he has been doing what he does for many years now. BP is in the midst of a season unlike any he has ever had. Even in that career year, he has a OBP under .330. I like the kid alot, I think he is part of the Reds' nucleus to build around. If you are not considering contracts I would still take Dunn.

And as I type this BP makes an amazing play... wow, he bailed out Dunn tonight. I did say I liked him right!

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 11:14 PM
Thank god for Brandon Phillips

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 11:16 PM
Well, I just disagree. Having one injured wheel will cause you to alter the way you run. That is fact.

We just see it differently. Bashing a player before they know the facts behind an incident happens here all of the time. Rushing to judgement just isn't my style.

Will EE get trashed here for his baserunning mistake? Highly doubtful.

You are calling edwin doing the logical thing a baserunning mistake? :bowrofl:

jimbo
08-30-2007, 11:21 PM
You are calling edwin doing the logical thing a baserunning mistake? :bowrofl:

The throw from the outfield was offline and he got caught trying to reach second. It looks like you're making excuses for him by justifying it.

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 11:26 PM
The throw from the outfield was offline and he got caught trying to reach second. It looks like you're making excuses for him by justifying it.

uhhh the throw was going home he did what everyone else would do in going for second. I am very much justifying it and making an excuse for it. Unlike Dunn missing a bag, edwins play is worthy of an excuse.

REDblooded
08-30-2007, 11:29 PM
oh wow......i refresh and come back to see this. umm...yeah buddy. That throw wasn't "offline". That throw was going home and was cut off. With two outs, and a potential play at the plate, EE would have to be an idiot to be sitting at first after the dust cleared at home.

REDblooded
08-30-2007, 11:30 PM
Not to mention, did you happen to check and see if EE was being waved to second? My guess is he was sent. I'm pretty sure however, that the third base coach didn't give Dunn the signal to miss third base.

jimbo
08-30-2007, 11:35 PM
oh wow......i refresh and come back to see this. umm...yeah buddy. That throw wasn't "offline". That throw was going home and was cut off. With two outs, and a potential play at the plate, EE would have to be an idiot to be sitting at first after the dust cleared at home.

A good throw would have had Valentin nailed by a mile. The throw went towards the second base side of the cutoff man. EE just took off for second prematurely before he saw the throw going home.

And why does everyone have to state their opinions by being so condescending? There's no need for comments like "yeah buddy" or using a laugh out loud smiley to make your point. All that does is create a hostile environment. State your opinion and have a little class.

Muggerd
08-30-2007, 11:38 PM
A good throw would have had Gonzo nailed by a mile. The throw went towards the second base side of the cutoff man. EE just took off for second prematurely before he saw the throw going home.

And why does everyone have to state their opinions by being so condescending? There's no need for comments like "yeah buddy" or using a laugh out loud smiley to make your point. All that does is create a hostile environment. State your opinion and have a little class.

Ok my opinion is that if you think Edwin going to 2nd was a blunder or a mistake or a boneheaded play you are wrong.

DTCromer
08-31-2007, 12:00 AM
I'm not amazed that Dunn missed 3rd base and booted 2 balls in left. I'm amazed at people defending him with the "injury" excuse. Are you freaking serious?

Are you really sure you want to pay this guy 15 million dollars? Honestly. . .are. . . .you. . . .freaking. . . . serious? Injured or not. . you learn to touch 1st base in the first lesson of the first season of baseball camp waaaay back in 1st grade. If you know you didn't touch 3rd base, you better stop. Sure, Dunn would've been killed for not touching it and coming back, but at least you don't cost your team runs.

I'm sorry. . .I know this may seem like 1 game, but this game will forever stick in my mind with Adam.

reds44
08-31-2007, 12:02 AM
Just to clarify, it was definatley the right call.



Home plate umpire Wally Bell called it a fielder's choice with a force play at third and invoked rule 7.12, which reads "If, upon appeal, the preceding runner is the third out, no runners following him shall score. If such third out is the result of a force play, neither preceding nor following runners shall score."


Go Reds!!!!
What a game.

mound_patrol
08-31-2007, 12:11 AM
I'm not amazed that Dunn missed 3rd base and booted 2 balls in left. I'm amazed at people defending him with the "injury" excuse. Are you freaking serious?

Are you really sure you want to pay this guy 15 million dollars? Honestly. . .are. . . .you. . . .freaking. . . . serious? Injured or not. . you learn to touch 1st base in the first lesson of the first season of baseball camp waaaay back in 1st grade. If you know you didn't touch 3rd base, you better stop. Sure, Dunn would've been killed for not touching it and coming back, but at least you don't cost your team runs.

I'm sorry. . .I know this may seem like 1 game, but this game will forever stick in my mind with Adam.

It's not the first time someone has missed a base. It's happened numerous times. I've done it myself before. Does that make me worthless? NO. He got caught in a situation where his stride was off with his running and he didn't quite reach the bag. Now I'm not saying what he did was justified. I'm just saying he's not the first person that has ever made a mistake running. I'm just glad Dunn's terribleness didn't effect that world series we are on the verge of winning. I seriously think people on this board actually think the Reds would be a better team with him not on it and that's laughable.

Muggerd
08-31-2007, 12:53 AM
It's not the first time someone has missed a base. It's happened numerous times. I've done it myself before. Does that make me worthless? NO. He got caught in a situation where his stride was off with his running and he didn't quite reach the bag. Now I'm not saying what he did was justified. I'm just saying he's not the first person that has ever made a mistake running. I'm just glad Dunn's terribleness didn't effect that world series we are on the verge of winning. I seriously think people on this board actually think the Reds would be a better team with him not on it and that's laughable.

Once again the whole people have done it before defense. As long as someone else screws up its ok. If Dunn would have a ball bounce off his head into the stands you guys would try to use "its happened before" as a valid excuse.

Blue
08-31-2007, 12:54 AM
You people are beyond ridiculous. He has a .927 OPS, the best on the team, and you focus in on his mistakes in this game as a reason for not keeping him around. When someone like Jason Ellison is patrolling left field in a few years, you'll wish we still had Dunn.

Blue
08-31-2007, 12:56 AM
Once again the whole people have done it before defense. As long as someone else screws up its ok. If Dunn would have a ball bounce off his head into the stands you guys would try to use "its happened before" as a valid excuse.

How about "How many times has it happened to him in his career?" Probably just this time. Not nearly enough to negate his offensive performace this season.

Blue
08-31-2007, 01:01 AM
Once again the whole people have done it before defense. As long as someone else screws up its ok. If Dunn would have a ball bounce off his head into the stands you guys would try to use "its happened before" as a valid excuse.

And yeah, Canseco really sucked. How could he have ever let a ball bounce off his head into the stands. If that happens once in your career, clearly, you suck.

Here are Canseco's career numbers:

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Jose-Canseco.shtml

Muggerd
08-31-2007, 01:02 AM
How about "How many times has it happened to him in his career?" Probably just this time. Not nearly enough to negate his offensive performace this season.

How many times has Adam Dunn made bonehead plays? Be it missing bags, getting picked off, not knowing where the ball is while on the bases, not being able to slide, missing ground balls. ... He screws up a lot of simple things. While he is good offensively most of the time it still is no excuse for the mistakes he makes. If any other player on this team made those mistakes I would be equally as hard on them, its not just because its Adam Dunn.

Muggerd
08-31-2007, 01:03 AM
And yeah, Canseco really sucked. How could he have ever let a ball bounce off his head into the stands. If that happens once in your career, clearly, you suck.

Here are Canseco's career numbers:

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Jose-Canseco.shtml

Yes quoting Canseco's career numbers is very smart thing to do.

Once again you guys keep trying to say that I am saying Adam Dunn sucks.

He makes a ton of bonehead plays. I just cant figure out how you guys find it acceptable for guys to make such idiotic plays all the time.

Muggerd
08-31-2007, 01:08 AM
Here guys from now on I will only say this

"Dunn is awesome, best player in the majors, only player on the reds team that is useful. He is so great that anyone would be stupid to say that he makes a mistake. If he makes mistakes its because hes injured."

Blue
08-31-2007, 01:10 AM
Yes quoting Canseco's career numbers is very smart thing to do.

Once again you guys keep trying to say that I am saying Adam Dunn sucks.

He makes a ton of bonehead plays. I just cant figure out how you guys find it acceptable for guys to make such idiotic plays all the time.

Well, for one, I don't think he makes more bad plays than your average player, and two, whatever deficiency he may have on defense or the basepaths, which I don't think are significant deficiencies at all, are more than made up for by his bat,

Muggerd
08-31-2007, 01:13 AM
Well, for one, I don't think he makes more bad plays than your average player, and two, whatever deficiency he may have on defense or the basepaths, which I don't think are significant deficiencies at all, are more than made up for by his bat,

He has made more bad plays than anyone on this team. If thats average I dont know what to tell you.

Why must we make it a case of that hes good at offensive production so hes allowed to mess up more...

Maldez
08-31-2007, 02:11 AM
All's well that ends well.

kbrake
08-31-2007, 07:17 AM
How many times has Adam Dunn made bonehead plays? Be it missing bags, getting picked off, not knowing where the ball is while on the bases, not being able to slide, missing ground balls. ... He screws up a lot of simple things. While he is good offensively most of the time it still is no excuse for the mistakes he makes. If any other player on this team made those mistakes I would be equally as hard on them, its not just because its Adam Dunn.

Your not hard on anyone else thats the problem. We get 15 post a day from you about Dunn's mistakes and nothing else. Big guy had a terrible game last night and I am not making any excuses for him. Yet it doesnt change the fact that Dunn is a great player and is worth 13.5 next season without doubt. The reason this team has played so bad is not Adam Dunn. This season would have been much worse without Adam Dunn. And no one has ever claimed he is the best player in baseball so please quit acting like a 13 year old. If David Ortiz was surrouned by Ryan Freel, Juan Castro, Mike Stanton, Jeff Conine, and Chad Moeller his team wouldnt be winning either.

DTCromer
08-31-2007, 09:28 AM
Once again, do you really want to pay a guy 15 million dollars who is a 1 dimensional baseball player who will hurt you on the base paths and on defense? As bad as the Stanton, Castro, and Coffey deals were, signing this guy to miss bases and continuously misplay balls for a small-market team is incredulous.

muethibp
08-31-2007, 09:54 AM
Nothing will make up for taking 2 runs away from your team.

I would love to see a list of your 900 or so posts. I would wager that far more than half are acerbic anti-Dunn's posts, a lot of them with that stupid "dunno" smiley. We get it.

Muggerd
08-31-2007, 09:56 AM
Your not hard on anyone else thats the problem. We get 15 post a day from you about Dunn's mistakes and nothing else. Big guy had a terrible game last night and I am not making any excuses for him. Yet it doesnt change the fact that Dunn is a great player and is worth 13.5 next season without doubt. The reason this team has played so bad is not Adam Dunn. This season would have been much worse without Adam Dunn. And no one has ever claimed he is the best player in baseball so please quit acting like a 13 year old. If David Ortiz was surrouned by Ryan Freel, Juan Castro, Mike Stanton, Jeff Conine, and Chad Moeller his team wouldnt be winning either.

Adam Dunn is a pretty popular topic is he not?

You just compared Dunn to David Ortiz, who is a DH.

The whole "well other people are bad so he can bobble balls and miss bags and screw up on the base path" defense came out. Please tell me how they have any effect on what he does?

The season isnt bad because of Adam Dunn, so that makes it ok to be bad at routine things :dunno:

Im seems like im not hard on other players because other players dont make these mistakes especially a guy with as much experience Dunn has. Ryan Freel is the only other guy on this team that makes a bunch of stupid plays, and hes awful as well when he makes them.

Muggerd
08-31-2007, 10:01 AM
I would love to see a list of your 900 or so posts. I would wager that far more than half are acerbic anti-Dunn's posts, a lot of them with that stupid "dunno" smiley. We get it.

:dunno:

jimbo
08-31-2007, 11:37 AM
Im seems like im not hard on other players because other players dont make these mistakes especially a guy with as much experience Dunn has.

What's the basis for that judgement? Or is that just your opinion? There are 4 other guys on this team with more errors than Dunn (he only has 5 the entire season), so it can't be that. Although Dunn missed 3B last night, he is generally a good baserunner. I would just like to know where that thinking is coming from.

Muggerd
08-31-2007, 11:53 AM
What's the basis for that judgement? Or is that just your opinion? There are 4 other guys on this team with more errors than Dunn (he only has 5 the entire season), so it can't be that. Although Dunn missed 3B last night, he is generally a good baserunner. I would just like to know where that thinking is coming from.

For you willing to question if its just my opinion or not you are pretty quick to state your opinion that hes a generally good base runner.

Dunn is a LF, his amount of errors compared to what an infielder does is irrelevant. Especially when errors are one the biggest joke of a stat in the majors. Players get punished for screwing up plays that they made good plays on just to get to the ball. While hes been charge in the books for less fielding mistakes stuff like missing 3rd, getting picked off, and making bad throws doesnt show up.

jimbo
08-31-2007, 12:09 PM
For you willing to question if its just my opinion or not you are pretty quick to state your opinion that hes a generally good base runner.

I'm not the only one with that opinion. I've seen it mentioned here before.


Dunn is a LF, his amount of errors compared to what an infielder does is irrelevant. Especially when errors are one the biggest joke of a stat in the majors.

While I may agree that errors is not the only or best way to make judgement on a player, it is far from a "joke" stat.


Players get punished for screwing up plays that they made good plays on just to get to the ball.

What?


While hes been charge in the books for less fielding mistakes stuff like missing 3rd, getting picked off, and making bad throws doesnt show up.

Nobody ever said he had a great arm. He missed 3B ONCE. How many times has he gotten picked off?

Muggerd
08-31-2007, 12:55 PM
I'm not the only one with that opinion. I've seen it mentioned here before.
and I'm not the only one with my opinion.


While I may agree that errors is not the only or best way to make judgement on a player, it is far from a "joke" stat.

We are just arguing semantics.


What?

Players that have large range tend to get more errors. Its the whole he gets to more balls so he can create more errors argument. Jeff Keppinger is no where near the the SS of Alex Gonzalez but Gonzalez will make more errors.



Nobody ever said he had a great arm. He missed 3B ONCE. How many times has he gotten picked off?

Its not just that hes missed 3rd base or that he has gotten picked off, its the culmination of mental mistakes that we are talking about here. Its that he has no excuse for those type of mistakes yet people are so quick to try to defend them.

REDblooded
08-31-2007, 01:21 PM
You don't get awarded an error for not being able to reach a ball because you took a bad first step, otherwise, Dunn would be among the league leaders. So, yeah, for OF's, errors aren't really a great stat to use.

redrum
08-31-2007, 01:30 PM
Adam Dunn had an awful game. No doubt about it.

Adam Dunn is not a perfect ball player. Far from it.

I'm guessing that every Reds fan wishes Adam Dunn was a better fielder, a better baserunner and even a better hitter. I think that probably every fan of every team feels that way about every player on that team.

If you would take off your Dunn hating glasses for a minute you would realize that he is far from the worst baserunner on the Reds. And while he may be the worst fielding outfielder on the roster, leftfield is not generally regarded as a defensive position. On the other hand, Dunn generates more runs offensively than anyone else on this team. Sometimes you have to take the bad with the good because that level of good is rather hard to find.

I'm guessing you guys would absolutely despise Manny Ramirez.

jimbo
08-31-2007, 04:11 PM
Players that have large range tend to get more errors. Its the whole he gets to more balls so he can create more errors argument. Jeff Keppinger is no where near the the SS of Alex Gonzalez but Gonzalez will make more errors.


I'm not buying this argument whatsoever. The vast majority of errors Gonzo has had were booted balls and bad throws. A player is not penalized an error because his range allowed him to at least touch a ball that is considered unplayable. Same thing with EE. The majority of his errors are of the throwing nature. Say what you want about errors, they are still mistakes.

I will agree with you to an extent. I can overlook the errors that Gonzo and EE make because they make up for it with their range and ability to get to the ball, but they still make a high number of unforced errors.

Muggerd
08-31-2007, 04:48 PM
I'm not buying this argument whatsoever. The vast majority of errors Gonzo has had were booted balls and bad throws. A player is not penalized an error because his range allowed him to at least touch a ball that is considered unplayable. Same thing with EE. The majority of his errors are of the throwing nature. Say what you want about errors, they are still mistakes.

I will agree with you to an extent. I can overlook the errors that Gonzo and EE make because they make up for it with their range and ability to get to the ball, but they still make a high number of unforced errors.

You dont think that a player that makes more plays and has a better range is going to end up with more errors? They often get charged for errors that normal players dont even get to. Its not making up for it with range.

Whos the better defensive short stop to you Gonzalez or Jeter?

jimbo
08-31-2007, 06:13 PM
You dont think that a player that makes more plays and has a better range is going to end up with more errors?

No, not necessarily. Omar Vizquel has been considered to have some of the best range in the game for shortstops his entire career, yet he has only averaged 9 errors a season.

I can see it in some instances when someone will not be able to handle a throw, but that also may mean they should never be attempting a throw.

Muggerd
08-31-2007, 06:24 PM
No, not necessarily. Omar Vizquel has been considered to have some of the best range in the game for shortstops his entire career, yet he has only averaged 9 errors a season.

I can see it in some instances when someone will not be able to handle a throw, but that also may mean they should never be attempting a throw.

Omar Vizquel is also one of the best defensive short stops in the history of the game.

MaineRed
08-31-2007, 07:08 PM
Omar Vizquel is also one of the best defensive short stops in the history of the game.

So what is your point? You are the one who is preaching that the more balls you get to the more errors you make. But now you are saying the better you are the less errors you make? Which is it?

I guess it is OK for you to make "excuses" when your theories don't work out but heaven forbid someone else do it.

Muggerd
08-31-2007, 07:47 PM
So what is your point? You are the one who is preaching that the more balls you get to the more errors you make. But now you are saying the better you are the less errors you make? Which is it?

I guess it is OK for you to make "excuses" when your theories don't work out but heaven forbid someone else do it.

Omar is one of the greatest of all time. Of course hes going to make less errors. The fact is that if its not a diving catch a lot of scorers will give a guy an error. Player A might have a 2 steps more range than someone else and can make a play on a ball and if it clips the end of his glove he will get charge with an error, Player B with less range will not get that chance to ever make the error because he will never touch the ball.

Its not my theory, its common base ball. Derek Jeter makes less errors than Furcal but hes no where near the better defensive SS.

mound_patrol
09-01-2007, 10:36 PM
Should we start a new thread tonight asking how many runs Hatteberg is going to cost us?
Should tonights game define his career to. Guess Hatteberg is really just the worst fielding first baseman in baseball.

Degenerate39
09-01-2007, 10:42 PM
Should we start a new thread tonight asking how many runs Hatteberg is going to cost us?
Should tonights game define his career to. Guess Hatteberg is really just the worst fielding first baseman in baseball.

Will it really matter? It'll turn into an Adam Dunn bash-a-thon.

Muggerd
09-01-2007, 10:52 PM
Should we start a new thread tonight asking how many runs Hatteberg is going to cost us?
Should tonights game define his career to. Guess Hatteberg is really just the worst fielding first baseman in baseball.

How very ignorant of you to post this.

mound_patrol
09-01-2007, 10:52 PM
Will it really matter? It'll turn into an Adam Dunn bash-a-thon.

I know. But I'm glad this game has happened. I'm glad people will see that another good player made some bonehead plays. That ball hatteberg just flat out missed was absolutely insane that he missed it, but he's human and can make a mistake.

Muggerd
09-01-2007, 10:53 PM
I know. But I'm glad this game has happened. I'm glad people will see that another good player made some bonehead plays. That ball hatteberg just flat out missed was absolutely insane that he missed it, but he's human and can make a mistake.

Another ignorant post

mound_patrol
09-01-2007, 11:44 PM
Another ignorant post

ignorant huh? How is his terrible game not being ripped apart. Why aren't you jumping down his throat and telling all the posters how bad he is. Oh that's right his name isnt Adam Dunn, so his mistakes are just part of the game. Dunn makes a mistake and he's terrible.

mound_patrol
09-01-2007, 11:45 PM
Another ignorant post

It's amazing how ignorant you can be when it comes to evaluating a player. Just try to be fair for a change.

Muggerd
09-01-2007, 11:48 PM
ignorant huh? How is his terrible game not being ripped apart. Why aren't you jumping down his throat and telling all the posters how bad he is. Oh that's right his name isnt Adam Dunn, so his mistakes are just part of the game. Dunn makes a mistake and he's terrible.

Because I will allow a guy that plays as well Hatteberg does at 1st bad game over one that over runs balls and continues to make stupid rookie little league mistakes while looking for a long term deal.

Muggerd
09-01-2007, 11:49 PM
It's amazing how ignorant you can be when it comes to evaluating a player. Just try to be fair for a change.

Whats next you are going to try to compare Phillips and Dunn? Phillips had a bad game so of course hes just as bad as Dunn or does that make Dunn just as good as Phillips?

mound_patrol
09-01-2007, 11:53 PM
Whats next you are going to try to compare Phillips and Dunn? Phillips had a bad game so of course hes just as bad as Dunn or does that make Dunn just as good as Phillips?

NO, neither are bad. They are just exceptionally talented HUMAN athletes that made mistakes. It's just laughable that you call a bad game by phillips and hatteberg as okay because it doesnt happen very much. Dunn has missed third once in his career. And I'm guessing that's the first time Hatteberg has ever missed a ball like that. But you proceed to call Adam dumb and to bash him to no end, but make excuses as to why hatte and phillips can get away with it.

Muggerd
09-01-2007, 11:58 PM
NO, neither are bad. They are just exceptionally talented HUMAN athletes that made mistakes. It's just laughable that you call a bad game by phillips and hatteberg as okay because it doesnt happen very much. Dunn has missed third once in his career. And I'm guessing that's the first time Hatteberg has ever missed a ball like that. But you proceed to call Adam dumb and to bash him to no end, but make excuses as to why hatte and phillips can get away with it.

Its not okay that they screwed up but to act like they mess up as much as Dunn is silly. Stop being ignorant and try to compare Dunn to Phillips and Hatteberg when it comes to D and mental mistakes.

I really think you might just be related to Dunn with your comments.

mound_patrol
09-02-2007, 12:01 AM
Its not okay that they screwed up but to act like they mess up as much as Dunn is silly. Stop being ignorant and try to compare Dunn to Phillips and Hatteberg when it comes to D and mental mistakes.

I really think you might just be related to Dunn with your comments.

The thing is I know Dunn isnt a defensive wizard by any means. But you ripped Dunn for one exceptionally bad game. He may not be a good defender but he's also not as bad as he showed that night in Pit. The same can be said for the right side of our infield tonight. And they did cost us the game. But no one is jumping all over them for it. And that's the way it should be. No one should be ridiculed the way Dunn was for one poor game. But I wanted to bring this up to illistrate how biased you and some others are with Dunn and the rest of the team.

Muggerd
09-02-2007, 12:05 AM
The thing is I know Dunn isnt a defensive wizard by any means. But you ripped Dunn for one exceptionally bad game. He may not be a good defender but he's also not as bad as he showed that night in Pit. The same can be said for the right side of our infield tonight. And they did cost us the game. But no one is jumping all over them for it. And that's the way it should be. No one should be ridiculed the way Dunn was for one poor game. But I wanted to bring this up to illistrate how biased you and some others are with Dunn and the rest of the team.

Dunn has a multiple of bad games for years. Phillips and Hatteberg are involved in so many more plays that Dunn is involved in at their positions defensively and still make less mistakes than Dunn does, and they also have redeeming qualities. Stop trying to connect the two.

If Hatteberg and Phillips start making mistakes at the rate Dunn makes them guess what... I will bash them as well.

mound_patrol
09-02-2007, 12:09 AM
Dunn has a multiple of bad games for years. Phillips and Hatteberg are involved in so many more plays that Dunn is involved in at their positions defensively and still make less mistakes than Dunn does, and they also have redeeming qualities. Stop trying to connect the two.

If Hatteberg and Phillips start making mistakes at the rate Dunn makes them guess what... I will bash them as well.

I'm pretty sure Adam has redeeming qualities. It'd called getting on base and driving men in. So because Adam has had other bad games, but never that bad, it's okay to rip him to shreads everytime he does make a mistake. But because the other two have better track records we'll look past a game which they essentially lost.

Muggerd
09-02-2007, 12:14 AM
I'm pretty sure Adam has redeeming qualities. It'd called getting on base and driving men in. So because Adam has had other bad games, but never that bad, it's okay to rip him to shreads everytime he does make a mistake. But because the other two have better track records we'll look past a game which they essentially lost.

I mean defensively.

Its not us ripping him to shreads because he makes mistakes its that he continues to make the same awful mistakes and never improves. He continues to over run balls, take bad routes to balls, have base running mistakes. Just because it happened all in the same game it makes it much more obvious and a hot bed for discussion.

Once again if they start making mistakes like Dunn does on a regular basis Ill bash them as well.

mound_patrol
09-02-2007, 12:15 AM
I mean defensively.

Its not us ripping him to shreads because he makes mistakes its that he continues to make the same awful mistakes and never improves. He continues to over run balls, take bad routes to balls, have base running mistakes. Just because it happened all in the same game it makes it much more obvious and a hot bed for discussion.

Once again if they start making mistakes like Dunn does on a regular basis Ill bash them as well.

No the point is a thread was started to belittle Dunn when it's obvious he made honest mistakes. But yet you can sit here and defend two other players who did the same thing.

Muggerd
09-02-2007, 12:19 AM
No the point is a thread was started to belittle Dunn when it's obvious he made honest mistakes. But yet you can sit here and defend two other players who did the same thing.

How is missing a base an honest mistake?

How is running at a ball and having it bounce past you on back to back plays honest especially if you do it as much as Dunn does it.

A honest mistake is making a bad throw when Albert Pujols is trying to take you out on a slide

A honest mistake is committing your 2nd error of the year.

Muggerd
09-02-2007, 12:22 AM
Im just putting you on ignore because I just cant handle talking to someone who would rather date Adam Dunn than admit he makes too many mistakes.

mound_patrol
09-02-2007, 12:22 AM
How is missing a base an honest mistake?

How is running at a ball and having it bounce past you on back to back plays honest especially if you do it as much as Dunn does it.

A honest mistake is making a bad throw when Albert Pujols is trying to take you out on a slide

A honest mistake is committing your 2nd error of the year.

An honest mistake is when you are putting in max effort and a misfortune happens. It's not like he was loafing and made the mistake. When he missed 3rd he was busting his butt to score the go ahead run. On the balls he missed he was sprinting in to make a play. this hole thread you have said over and over again that people always make excused for Dunn. You just made excused for Hatte and Phillips. You can't deny that. So many double standards for you.

Chip R
09-02-2007, 03:15 AM
O.K., not only have you guys talked this topic to death, apparently you can't do it without being civil towards each other. I'm going to shut it down. Perhaps in the future, if you would like to discuss things, you can behave better and then we won't have to deal with the complaints and eventually shut another thread down.

Treat others like you would want to be treated. {b]No one[/b] has the supreme right to post on this board. We've handed down suspensions and bans before and believe you me we will do it again. So you have to ask yourselves if you want to stay here and have discussions in a civil manner or do you want to leave. The choice is yours, folks.