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View Full Version : Are you okay with Jr dogging it?



icehole3
08-31-2007, 06:47 PM
I know its not every game, more like every once in a while.

Matt700wlw
08-31-2007, 06:50 PM
I wish he wouldn't....ESPECIALLY when he can get an extra base (like last night), which could potentially help your team.

A grounder to second/fly ball to left...routine play....I'd like him to run hard, but I'm not going say much if he jogs down to first.


I didn't say anything about last night's incident either...what's the point? He's not going to change.

pedro
08-31-2007, 06:51 PM
The guys legs are made of paper. I'd rather he took care of them.

As for last night he may have made it to second but he may also have gotten thrown out before the run scored if he tried.

red-in-la
08-31-2007, 06:52 PM
I would rather JR take that swing to the plate most every day and live with the trot now and then. I do NOT want to EVER see JR sprinting.....not now....not ever. Another hammy tear and I think he is done.

MrCinatit
08-31-2007, 07:24 PM
It is painful for me to watch Junior try to run fast. I think there is a huge part of his mind which wants to run with the wind like he did as a kid - but his knees know otherwise.

RFS62
08-31-2007, 07:32 PM
I don't have any problem with him not sprinting. Only he knows his limitations, and I'm thrilled we've made it through another season without watching him carried off the field.

I do have a problem when he poses and watches a ball he thinks is a dinger and it bounces off the wall. He should be running out of the box, at whatever speed he can muster without risking his legs. That's a completely different thing. It doesn't matter who you are, it's embarrassing when you stand there and pose your way into a single off the wall.

KronoRed
08-31-2007, 07:38 PM
Not really.

GAC
08-31-2007, 08:17 PM
Last night I think he was pretty much conceding it was gonna be an out. Which you shouldn't do. It wasn't like he hit a routine groundball to the 2Bman.

Thank God Gonzo, who was on 1B, didn't think that way. ;)

What hurt the most though was that the next batter (Phillips) then dbls, which would have scored Jr.

But cie la vie - what will be will be.

pedro
08-31-2007, 08:17 PM
I don't have any problem with him not sprinting. Only he knows his limitations, and I'm thrilled we've made it through another season without watching him carried off the field.

I do have a problem when he poses and watches a ball he thinks is a dinger and it bounces off the wall. He should be running out of the box, at whatever speed he can muster without risking his legs. That's a completely different thing. It doesn't matter who you are, it's embarrassing when you stand there and pose your way into a single off the wall.

I'll agree with that.

Always Red
08-31-2007, 09:02 PM
The guys legs are made of paper. I'd rather he took care of them.

As for last night he may have made it to second but he may also have gotten thrown out before the run scored if he tried.

As high in the air as he hit that pop fly, and the throw going straight to the plate, he should have been on 2nd base, in that situation, every time.

We all know Junior likes to admire his shots; he got fooled in Pittsburgh when his high drive hit the top of the wall; he should have been on 2nd.

Yes, his legs are bad. Yes, he can still run (we've seen him run rather well this year, though not all that fast anymore :)), and both of those situations that happened this past week require no speed or hustle at all, just the ordinary amount of running, and keeping your head in the game.

No one is going to say anything to Junior. Krivsky said as much tonight when asked about it by Doc. He basically took the 5th amendment, saying that he doesn't get to the TV much these days.

So, to use a trite, overused phrase of the day- "it is what it is."

This team needs Junior, they need him healthy and they need his bat. I certainly do not ever expect him to sprint. So, I voted that I was a little disappointed. Not surprised, not mad, and I don't want to run him out of town. He's done it before, and he'll most probably do it again.

There are different sets of rules on every major league team, one for established guys, one for rank rookies, and another for future HoF'ers.

Bottom line is this- Junior drove in the winning run.

MartyFan
08-31-2007, 09:52 PM
Junior just legged out a triple...good to see he didn't dog it this time.

Matt700wlw
08-31-2007, 09:55 PM
No doggin' tonight!!

KronoRed
08-31-2007, 09:55 PM
Junior just legged out a triple...good to see he didn't dog it this time.

He should have had an inside the park HR

Slacker.

WVRedsFan
09-01-2007, 12:04 AM
I don't like the question. Like AR said, he drove in the winning run. It seems that what looks like hustle is more valued than performance. That's like the high school player who had little talent and few results starting over the 2,000 yard running back because he plays hard. Ridiculous. Junior makes a difference despite his posing for what he thinks are HR's and not running hard to second base. Like someone else said, one mistake and he's out of baseball. I prefer to have Jr. playing and making a difference than having him in the lineup.

Ltlabner
09-01-2007, 05:35 AM
He should stop smiling so much.

His SPI is through the roof. That's the real drag on the team.

GAC
09-01-2007, 05:57 AM
I don't like the question. Like AR said, he drove in the winning run.

The go-ahead run that scored all the way from 1B on a shallow blop hit that in all probability should have been caught, yet fortunately wasn't. So I give far more credit to the hustle/heads-up play of Gonzo then Jr for that run. Never concede anything. ;)


It seems that what looks like hustle is more valued than performance.

That's not true, nor what people are saying. No one is valuing hustle over performance. Apple and oranges here. I don't think any of us are expecting every ballplayer to be a "Ryan Freel". But what we shouldn't do is under value hustle. Especially when it is expected and called for, and could have made a difference in this particular situation.

And I don't care who it is.

But I don't think Jr was dogging it on that particular play. He just wasn't using his head. He mentally already conceded it was going to be an out from the get-go. And when anything can happen, in this particuar situation he ended up being wrong. Again - don't concede anything.

RedsBaron
09-01-2007, 07:14 AM
I am never "okay" with anyone not hustling all the time. I wish that every player had the constant all-out drive on the field that Pete Rose had.
Hustle cannot replace a lack of talent though. I've didn't like it when Junior as a Mariner would sometimes pose and preen when he hit what he assumed would be a HR, just as I didn't (and still don't) like it when anyone else did (or does) so. But that didn't mean that I wasn't wishing that Junior played for the Reds back in the 1990s. I agree with Paul Brown who supposedly said that when you score a touchdown, you should act as if you have been in the end zone before, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't want to have a lot of modern players on my football team who insist on putting on silly exhibitions when they score.
You have to take the good with the bad. I wish Junior had had the hustle and durability of Pete Rose-but he is still a future Hall of Famer. I wish Adam Dunn was a competent fielder and baserunner-but his bat still makes him a more valuable player than Ryan Freel, despite all of Freel's hustle. I think Chad Johnson's displays when he scores are rather silly-but I'm glad the Bengals have him.

Highlifeman21
09-01-2007, 07:15 AM
I don't have any problem with him not sprinting. Only he knows his limitations, and I'm thrilled we've made it through another season without watching him carried off the field.

I do have a problem when he poses and watches a ball he thinks is a dinger and it bounces off the wall. He should be running out of the box, at whatever speed he can muster without risking his legs. That's a completely different thing. It doesn't matter who you are, it's embarrassing when you stand there and pose your way into a single off the wall.

At least he looks good doing it.

traderumor
09-01-2007, 09:38 AM
It looked to me like a great overexaggeration (surprising, huh?) by the Brenneman boys that Jr. should have even been on second. It was a bloop single. Gonzalez did what he did because he was off with the pitch. I'm not sure Jr. could have made it to second.

westofyou
09-01-2007, 10:34 AM
It looked to me like a great overexaggeration (surprising, huh?)

Kinda like 80% of the threads on RZ eh?

Surprises around every corner.

redsrule2500
09-01-2007, 12:59 PM
Anyone who says it has no effect on the team is joking themselves, as we saw it clearly did the other night.

I also think it has a clubhouse effect on players, saying that different standards are for different players. That's why I think Griffey should be on a plane to Seattle, ASAP.

dougdirt
09-01-2007, 12:59 PM
Does anyone remember earlier in the game when Edwin tried to go to second on a throw home that was cut off and Edwin was thrown out to end the inning at second base by 15 feet? Think maybe Billy told Griff to stay at first and keep the inning going?

dougdirt
09-01-2007, 01:00 PM
Anyone who says it has no effect on the team is joking themselves, as we saw it clearly did the other night.

I also think it has a clubhouse effect on players, saying that different standards are for different players. That's why I think Griffey should be on a plane to Seattle, ASAP.

Different standards do apply to different people, no matter where you are in the world. Good luck finding any workplace where some people can get away with a little more becuase of who they are, what they make or what they do.

westofyou
09-01-2007, 01:09 PM
Different standards do apply to different people, no matter where you are in the world. Good luck finding any workplace where some people can get away with a little more becuase of who they are, what they make or what they do.

Evidently he never heard Sparky talk about the division of rules in the BRM clubhouse.

KittyDuran
09-01-2007, 04:33 PM
Evidently he never heard Sparky talk about the division of rules in the BRM clubhouse.Agreed... but here's the catch... the BRM won games, championships, WS - if they didn't I wonder how Sparky would reacted to the Big 4 (Rose, Perez, Morgan, and Bench) getting the perks that they did. :confused:

GAC
09-01-2007, 04:58 PM
Agreed... but here's the catch... the BRM won games, championships, WS - if they didn't I wonder how Sparky would reacted to the Big 4 (Rose, Perez, Morgan, and Bench) getting the perks that they did. :confused:

The players "policed" themselves in that clubhouse. It didn't matter who you were, if you did/did not do something on that field of play you paid a fine.

Always Red
09-01-2007, 05:49 PM
The players "policed" themselves in that clubhouse. It didn't matter who you were, if you did/did not do something on that field of play you paid a fine.

They had the infamous "kangaroo court" that existed on nearly every team back then. I have no idea if any teams do that anymore. :dunno:

RedsBaron
09-01-2007, 07:34 PM
Agreed... but here's the catch... the BRM won games, championships, WS - if they didn't I wonder how Sparky would reacted to the Big 4 (Rose, Perez, Morgan, and Bench) getting the perks that they did. :confused:

Very true. "Leadership" is a term that if often overused; if you can't hit a curveball, you won't be much of a team leader on a MLB club no matter what other leadership skills you may have--but the BRM's leadership core of Rose, Perez, Morgan and Bench did lead by both example and word. I know I am about to sound like an "old timer", but the BRM's Big Four didn't allow teammates to fail to hustle, to miss bases, and play shoddy defense without saying something.

BoydsOfSummer
09-01-2007, 11:01 PM
"Run, dummy!"--Crash Davis

Chip R
09-01-2007, 11:15 PM
Agreed... but here's the catch... the BRM won games, championships, WS - if they didn't I wonder how Sparky would reacted to the Big 4 (Rose, Perez, Morgan, and Bench) getting the perks that they did. :confused:


All the hustle in the world isn't going to help this bunch win a world championship much less a division title.

WVRedsFan
09-01-2007, 11:20 PM
Things must be so slow on the talk network circuit that the idiot on WLW tonight is going into a long tirade about Junior dogging it, as if it made any difference in the standing of this club. I understand Alan Cutler did the same thing this afternoon. IMHO, the talk should be about why this club has not improved one iota in the last 7 years, but it's easier to trash a hall of famer than it is to really blame those who should be blamed. Sad.

Chip R
09-01-2007, 11:34 PM
I am never "okay" with anyone not hustling all the time. I wish that every player had the constant all-out drive on the field that Pete Rose had.
Hustle cannot replace a lack of talent though. I've didn't like it when Junior as a Mariner would sometimes pose and preen when he hit what he assumed would be a HR, just as I didn't (and still don't) like it when anyone else did (or does) so. But that didn't mean that I wasn't wishing that Junior played for the Reds back in the 1990s. I agree with Paul Brown who supposedly said that when you score a touchdown, you should act as if you have been in the end zone before, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't want to have a lot of modern players on my football team who insist on putting on silly exhibitions when they score.
You have to take the good with the bad. I wish Junior had had the hustle and durability of Pete Rose-but he is still a future Hall of Famer. I wish Adam Dunn was a competent fielder and baserunner-but his bat still makes him a more valuable player than Ryan Freel, despite all of Freel's hustle. I think Chad Johnson's displays when he scores are rather silly-but I'm glad the Bengals have him.


Well said.

I think hustle is a good thing. You would like to see everyone hustle. But I think people overvalue it much like people overvalue defense and speed. That's not to say they all don't have their place or aren't valuable but don't overpay for it. Freel is a good example. Nobody hustles more than Freel. But his value is getting on base (and hopefully not getting caught stealing or picked off 1st). He got a multi-year deal because the Reds valued his hustle and popularity more than they valued his tangibles. Now even his biggest supporters want to trade him so a guy like Keppinger and/or Hopper can take his place at a much lower salary. And that is one of the lessons from Moneyball. It's not just getting guys who can get on base and hit home runs and forget about their defense. It's about not overvaluing things that you can get at a much lower price. Sometimes it's a cold blooded business and sentimentality is nice but teams in the Reds situation can't always afford to be sentimental. I like Jr. here despite him not hustling - or just making a mistake - on that play because he produces offensively.

osuceltic
09-02-2007, 12:08 AM
I can't believe the excuses and rationalization in this thread. Have any of you ever played sports? I can't believe anyone who has played competitive sports at any level could defend Junior's actions. It's ridiculous.

Chip R
09-02-2007, 01:55 AM
I can't believe the excuses and rationalization in this thread. Have any of you ever played sports? I can't believe anyone who has played competitive sports at any level could defend Junior's actions. It's ridiculous.


Right. No one here has played competitive sports. Talk about ridiculous. :rolleyes:

WVRedsFan
09-02-2007, 02:00 AM
Right. No one here has played competitive sports. Talk about ridiculous. :rolleyes:

Gallagher lives. That is all...

osuceltic
09-02-2007, 10:20 AM
Right. No one here has played competitive sports. Talk about ridiculous. :rolleyes:

Anyone who has ever been a part of a team wouldn't be OK with what Junior is doing. If you have an ounce of respect for the sport or, even more importantly, YOUR TEAMMATES, you'd never dog it like he is. This isn't sprinting to first on a ground ball to second. This is reprehensible.

Chip R
09-02-2007, 10:30 AM
Anyone who has ever been a part of a team wouldn't be OK with what Junior is doing. If you have an ounce of respect for the sport or, even more importantly, YOUR TEAMMATES, you'd never dog it like he is. This isn't sprinting to first on a ground ball to second. This is reprehensible.


So you are ready to cut him just because he didn't run hard because he thought a ball was going to be caught?

icehole3
09-02-2007, 10:48 AM
If it was just this one no, but it has become a habit. I hope the next manager will call him out when he does it. The closest one to calling him out was Trader Jack.

westofyou
09-02-2007, 11:10 AM
I can't believe the excuses and rationalization in this thread. Have any of you ever played sports? I can't believe anyone who has played competitive sports at any level could defend Junior's actions. It's ridiculous.

How's it feel to be the only guy on the board to actually play sports?

Let me put my slide rule away and get out my pen and paper out and take some notes down.

letsgojunior
09-02-2007, 11:13 AM
Things must be so slow on the talk network circuit that the idiot on WLW tonight is going into a long tirade about Junior dogging it, as if it made any difference in the standing of this club. I understand Alan Cutler did the same thing this afternoon. IMHO, the talk should be about why this club has not improved one iota in the last 7 years, but it's easier to trash a hall of famer than it is to really blame those who should be blamed. Sad.

Bingo.

Chip R
09-02-2007, 11:18 AM
Bingo.


Yep. It's much easier - and it sells more papers and gets more people to call in - to bash guys like Jr. and Dunn and the manager du jour than it is to promote Aaron Harang who is having a fantastic season. Much easier to tear down than to build up.

dougdirt
09-02-2007, 12:25 PM
I can't believe the excuses and rationalization in this thread. Have any of you ever played sports? I can't believe anyone who has played competitive sports at any level could defend Junior's actions. It's ridiculous.

Is your leg held together by screws thanks to an experimental surgery in which you are still the ONLY professional athlete to EVER come back from the injury in which you sustained? Are any of the other players?
Until it is, I don't think anyone has the right to talk about Griffey not running as hard as someone would like exactly.


Anyone who has ever been a part of a team wouldn't be OK with what Junior is doing. If you have an ounce of respect for the sport or, even more importantly, YOUR TEAMMATES, you'd never dog it like he is. This isn't sprinting to first on a ground ball to second. This is reprehensible.

Yes, his offensive production is reprehensible this year. Its so reprehensible that his game winning RBI single is being torn apart by some people as if its a bad thing that he got the freaking game winning hit. Seriously, I think some people would feel better about the whole thing if he just gronuded out to SS but ran as hard as he could to first and was thrown out by 10 feet.

Matt700wlw
09-02-2007, 12:41 PM
The play that won't go away...



Griffey critics fast out of box
A little loafing goes a long way on radio
BY JOHN FAY | JFAY@ENQUIRER.COM



ST. LOUIS - After consulting my Tarot baseball cards this morning, I've determined that Ken Griffey Jr. saved Thursday night's game by not taking second base on that bloop in the ninth inning.

If he had taken second, the Reds would have gone up 6-4. But in the bottom of the ninth, Brandon Phillips would have played it safe on the ball Nate McLouth hit to keep the tying run from getting to second.

Josh Phelps would have scored, making it 6-5. Then Jose Bautista would have singled in the tying run. The Pirates would have gone on to win in the 14th inning.


Ludicrous?

Absolutely.

But no more ludicrous than the brouhaha that was caused by Griffey not taking second on his bloop hit in the ninth.

I want to say it right here: Griffey should have taken second. There's no question about that.

But the fact that he didn't go to second became a major issue on talk radio and the Internet.

It completely overshadowed the fact that the Reds won the game - possibly their most dramatic win of the year.

It completely overshadowed the fact that Phillips made the defensive play of the year.

It completely overshadowed the fact that Griffey drove in the winning run in a fantastic at-bat against Matt Capps, the Pirates' best reliever.

How did that happen?

It's the way sports and sports media are these days. Marty and Thom Brennaman talked about Griffey's misplay on the radio. George Grande and Chris Welsh mentioned it on TV.

Paul Daugherty fanned the flames on "Extra Innings."

The fire was raging by the next day, so much that Bill Cunningham was talking about it on his show.

It was still a hot topic when Daugherty did his pregame show Friday.

Griffey is a perfect talk show topic. He's immensely popular - he was the leading vote-getter for the National League All-Star team - but he has more than his share of detractors. And he will do something like he did Thursday on occasion. Two days before, in fact, he hit a 400-foot single.

Mention Griffey and the lines light up like a Christmas tree.

Pete Mackanin was asked about it by reporters before Friday's game.

Mackanin agreed that Griffey should have made it to second base.

"I didn't see (Griffey) get out of the box," Mackanin said. "I didn't see if he stumbled or whatever ... But I think he should have gotten to second. Or I would have liked to see him at second. Let's put it that way."

Mackanin did not say anything to Griffey about the play. He let it go as he did with a similar play in the Florida.

"I knew that he knew he made a mistake," Mackanin said. "He knows. There's no need to belabor the point. The team's doing well. There's no need to stir up anything."

Griffey also chose not to talk about it.

"Today's not a good day to talk to me," he said Saturday.

He almost never does that. But he knows he can't win on this one.

A person close to him said Griffey

realizes he made a mistake. It should be noted that he broke hard out of the box on a ball that almost went out of the park Friday night.

He ended up with his first triple in three years.

That's a good way for Griffey to avoid being skewered on the talk shows.

Chip R
09-02-2007, 01:19 PM
Who is this writer and what has he done with John Fay?

Blitz Dorsey
09-02-2007, 08:09 PM
Honestly, if they kept a stat of "Times Batter Thinks He Jacked a HR and Poses at the Plate, Only To Be Left With a Long Single Due to Loafing" ... Griffey would be the all-time MLB leader with no one even in his vacinity. Undisputed champion. And it's extra hilarious/frustrating when it's not even close to being a HR, maybe a two-hopper off the wall, and Griffey still does his pose followed by his old-man jog down to first, followed by the half-arse attempt to make it look like he's going to turn it on and run hard at the last minute to possibly still get the double, followed by him going back to first shaking his head.

But who needs hustle? Does a cheetah hustle when it chases its prey?

dougdirt
09-03-2007, 12:11 AM
Honestly, if they kept a stat of "Times Batter Thinks He Jacked a HR and Poses at the Plate, Only To Be Left With a Long Single Due to Loafing" ... Griffey would be the all-time MLB leader with no one even in his vacinity. Undisputed champion. And it's extra hilarious/frustrating when it's not even close to being a HR, maybe a two-hopper off the wall, and Griffey still does his pose followed by his old-man jog down to first, followed by the half-arse attempt to make it look like he's going to turn it on and run hard at the last minute to possibly still get the double, followed by him going back to first shaking his head.

But who needs hustle? Does a cheetah hustle when it chases its prey?

Does a cheetah have an OPS over .900?

WVRedsFan
09-03-2007, 02:00 AM
Does a cheetah have an OPS over .900?


Well said. Let's go with the popular opinion and trash the HOF'er. Why not? He makes too much money, though he has deferred it eery time the Reds asked him to. Guys like that need to be in Seattle or anywhere but here. We need to hustle with a .750 OBS. Yep, all those runs and RBI's are not needed around here. We need high socks and hustle.

icehole3
09-03-2007, 08:32 AM
Instead of just standing at home plate spectating, fans are only asking that he does a half trot out of the box just in case there's a drop. No one is asking for a Freel like sprint out of the box, everyone knows his hamstring is held together with duck tape, everyone knows he can bash, theyre just asking him to please, please, please just trot around the bases once the ball is hit. Everyone is tired of hearing on the radio and tv that Jr was standing at home plate again. We know he's super Jr, we get it.

RFS62
09-03-2007, 08:33 AM
"I didn't see (Griffey) get out of the box," Mackanin said. "I didn't see if he stumbled or whatever ... But I think he should have gotten to second. Or I would have liked to see him at second. Let's put it that way."

Mackanin did not say anything to Griffey about the play. He let it go as he did with a similar play in the Florida.

"I knew that he knew he made a mistake," Mackanin said. "He knows. There's no need to belabor the point. The team's doing well. There's no need to stir up anything."

Griffey also chose not to talk about it.

"Today's not a good day to talk to me," he said Saturday.

He almost never does that. But he knows he can't win on this one.

A person close to him said Griffey realizes he made a mistake. It should be noted that he broke hard out of the box on a ball that almost went out of the park Friday night.

He ended up with his first triple in three years.

That's a good way for Griffey to avoid being skewered on the talk shows.


This is exactly what I thought when I saw both plays.

Junior isn't stupid. He knows he looked bad and it was a mistake.

The way he legged out that triple was all you needed to see to get that point.

He made a mistake. His tenure is all that kept him from getting dressed down by his manager.

KronoRed
09-03-2007, 12:48 PM
What do people want? him to hold a new conference and beg the common fans forgiveness for daring to not run at mach 3 at all times?

Please.

dougdirt
09-03-2007, 01:07 PM
What do people want? him to hold a new conference and beg the common fans forgiveness for daring to not run at mach 3 at all times?

Please.

Yes, I think that is what some people want. Those people stopped taking their anti-crazy pills long ago.

icehole3
09-03-2007, 01:56 PM
read post 48, we just want him to at least fake it a little, just a little is all Im asking for. If anyone has a young son...you have to keep reminding the boy to quit beating wipe out on the kitchen table while dad's trying to watch the news...it's sort of like that.

redsrule2500
09-03-2007, 04:05 PM
Different standards do apply to different people, no matter where you are in the world. Good luck finding any workplace where some people can get away with a little more becuase of who they are, what they make or what they do.

its very different when you are on a team

Blitz Dorsey
09-03-2007, 08:01 PM
Instead of just standing at home plate spectating, fans are only asking that he does a half trot out of the box just in case there's a drop. No one is asking for a Freel like sprint out of the box, everyone knows his hamstring is held together with duck tape, everyone knows he can bash, theyre just asking him to please, please, please just trot around the bases once the ball is hit. Everyone is tired of hearing on the radio and tv that Jr was standing at home plate again. We know he's super Jr, we get it.

Thank you. Honestly, the excuses for Junior's loafing sound like they are coming from his mother. Everyone knows he is talented and could rake a .900 OPS in his sleep. The point is that he loafs more than any player I have ever seen and it's a terrible example of how to play the game of baseball. Imagine how good Griffey would be if he didn't loaf. Yes, a lot of stars loaf (ManRam comes to mind immediately) but no one has an inch on Griffey. He is the undisputed champ of laziness/having no clue how far he just hit a ball if he thinks that two-hopper is a HR.

Blitz Dorsey
09-03-2007, 08:14 PM
Does a cheetah have an OPS over .900?

Very profound. But it appears you missed the point. Griffey's OPS might be approaching a clean 1.000 if he hustled. No one is arguing that Griffey is talented.

But I agree asking Griffey to "hustle" might be going too far. Just kinda fake hustling like the above poster said so in case his "HR" is actually a two-hopper off the wall, he can actually still get a double. Griffey must lead the league in long singles this year. Not all are his fault. Let's make that clear. Vince Coleman could be held to long singles off the wall in GASmallPark. But most of the time, it is Griffey's fault. Sorry to all the "Griffey Moms" out there. But your boy loafs more than anyone I've ever seen.

pedro
09-03-2007, 08:36 PM
Thank you. Honestly, the excuses for Junior's loafing sound like they are coming from his mother. Everyone knows he is talented and could rake a .900 OPS in his sleep. The point is that he loafs more than any player I have ever seen and it's a terrible example of how to play the game of baseball. Imagine how good Griffey would be if he didn't loaf. Yes, a lot of stars loaf (ManRam comes to mind immediately) but no one has an inch on Griffey. He is the undisputed champ of laziness/having no clue how far he just hit a ball if he thinks that two-hopper is a HR.

That's pretty rich. Dude may showboat too much but he sure as hell isn't lazy.

dougdirt
09-03-2007, 09:06 PM
Very profound. But it appears you missed the point. Griffey's OPS might be approaching a clean 1.000 if he hustled. No one is arguing that Griffey is talented.

But I agree asking Griffey to "hustle" might be going too far. Just kinda fake hustling like the above poster said so in case his "HR" is actually a two-hopper off the wall, he can actually still get a double. Griffey must lead the league in long singles this year. Not all are his fault. Let's make that clear. Vince Coleman could be held to long singles off the wall in GASmallPark. But most of the time, it is Griffey's fault. Sorry to all the "Griffey Moms" out there. But your boy loafs more than anyone I've ever seen.

Ah, and there is the point I am trying to make. If Griffey 'hustled' all the time, he might be approaching a clean 1.000.... he would probably have palyed 40 games this year too, because the guys body is shot.

WVRedsFan
09-04-2007, 01:34 AM
That's pretty rich. Dude may showboat too much but he sure as hell isn't lazy.

Word.

You don't come back from where he was with his surgeries. Most players would have hung it up and quit as Andy Furman (where is he now?) suggested. He worked his tail off getting back to the major where at 37 he hits 30HR and drives in 100 runs. who the heck else can do that on this team besides Dunn and maybe Phillips? Nobody.

Lame, real lame.

GAC
09-04-2007, 03:56 AM
Some of you bring up a good point concerning his injury history. Haven't some of those injuries came as a result of running the bases? I remember the first when when he was hustling around 3B. Nasty. I know he screwed up his shoulder making a daring catch out in the OF.

My point is simply this.... maybe the guy is somewhat "snakebit", is being cautious, due to that history? He's tired of being on the DL, and is trying his best to stay off of it. And yeah, at times, that "cautiousness", which has become so mentally engrained within him, causes him to make some bad decisions. It's more of a "be safer then sorry" attitude. Possible?

I mean, when the guy can break his wrist wrestling with his boy, then he either has some bad karma or brittle bones. :lol:

icehole3
09-04-2007, 06:31 AM
another question to ask. Is the front office somewhat responsible in letting things slip by? I heard Krvsky on Daugherty's sport talk show, act like he never heard or read anything about Jr in the last week. Either he's smoking crack or this team is being run by a bunch bozo's. Listen to this podcast to hear the Krivsky's excuses. I clicked in about a third of the way and you get Krivsky lying or he's just plain dumb.

http://www.700wlw.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=paul_daugherty.xml

Ltlabner
09-04-2007, 11:46 AM
I've been thinking about this subject quite a bit since the topic was orginally introduced.

I've changed my mind. I am completley comfortable with Jr, and Dunn for that matter, dogging it.

As long as they don't smile, especially after striking out, they can dog-it all day long.

Blitz Dorsey
09-04-2007, 08:18 PM
Ah, and there is the point I am trying to make. If Griffey 'hustled' all the time, he might be approaching a clean 1.000.... he would probably have palyed 40 games this year too, because the guys body is shot.

Oh, that is the point you were trying to make. You should have brought that up earlier then because it does have some validity. Not a lot, but some. I agree that Griffey needs to be cautious with his body, but that's not the point.

The point is that Griffey doesn't need to outright "hustle" to turn some of those long singles into doubles. He just needs to run like he's not playing in the over 90's softball league at the retirement home. There is some in-between you know. I'm talking about the area between Freel-pants-on-fire hustle, and complete loafing.

WVPacman
09-04-2007, 11:56 PM
Anyone who says it has no effect on the team is joking themselves, as we saw it clearly did the other night.

I also think it has a clubhouse effect on players, saying that different standards are for different players. That's why I think Griffey should be on a plane to Seattle, ASAP.

I completly agree with you man,I to think its a joke that people takes up for this guy when he is clearly dogging it atleast three games out of five every week.He poses when he thinks he has hit a homer then looks like a idiot when it bounces off the wall or caught.He hardly ever runs when he hits the ball in the gap and can clearly make it to second.Yes I know I will be bashed over this b/c im talking about Griffey but its the truth!! the guy just does'nt give a effort.