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View Full Version : Interesting postgame comments from Brandon Phillips and Albert Pujols



Reds Fanatic
09-02-2007, 01:20 AM
This is from Trent:


ST. LOUIS -- Wow, some actual emotion postgame. There's a legitimate feud between two of the best players for each team.

Brandon Phillips was upset with Albert Pujols for the 5th inning double play attempt. Phillips said Pujols took a jab step inside to get in the way of his throw and that it should have been interference. The play led to all four runs in the fifht inning. Another missed shot at a double play in the sixth led to five more.

"I respect him as a player and as a person, but he came in standing up and that jjust shows me he doesn't respect me turning a double play," Phillips said. "He tried to hurt me. You don't do that. It taught me a lesson. Lesson learned."

"He did his job, next time I'll do mine," Phillips said. "I'll just throw it through the (m.f.)."


"I think it was interference because he didn't slide," Phillips said. "I wish there was another double play."

"Next time he better get his ass down," Phillips said.

Phillips said he tried to talk to Pujols about it, but Pujols brushed him off.

Pujols responded that Phillips told him that the next time he was going to throw at his head, Pujols said to go ahead.

"That's the way I play the game, I play it hard," Pujols said. "He's the one who didn't make an adjustment. He didn't get out of the way."

When told that Phillips said that the next time he would throw at him and make him get down, Pujols said: "Next time I'll put him in left field, so get out of the way."

Reds interim manager Pete Mackanin said he learned his lesson early as a middle infielder that you throw through the runner and make him get down.

"I don't know if Pujols intentionally stood up, I don't know if he tried to disrupt the throw," Mackanin said. "It's up the second baseman or shortstop to throw at his head to force him to slide. That's why Manny Trillo threw sidearm, so you had to get down."

Pete said one time he threw at a guy and it bounced off his helmet and past the first baseman, allowing the runs to score, but you've got to throw through the runner and force them down.

guttle11
09-02-2007, 01:23 AM
I love Brandon Phillips. I'll love him more if he drops to sidearm on the next double play ball.

OnBaseMachine
09-02-2007, 01:23 AM
Pujols always has and always will be an ass. Sounds like roid rage kicking in. I hope Phillips gets another chance at Pujols. I would plunk him next time.

remdog
09-02-2007, 01:27 AM
MacKanin just made some points with me. Phillips too. Pujols is entitled to come in high---it's his decision. But if I'm Brandon I bounce the ball of his coconut and see how Albert feels about the same approach next time.

Rem

HumnHilghtFreel
09-02-2007, 01:27 AM
I hope BP keeps true to his word, that way LaRussa can call him a headhunter too.

penantboundreds
09-02-2007, 01:46 AM
he called him a m.f'er? dammmmmn!

wheels
09-02-2007, 01:49 AM
I love it.

Good old fashioned ripsnorts on both sides of the issue.

Country Hardball.

corkedbat
09-02-2007, 02:14 AM
I'd pay money to see BP realease one between PooHole's eyes (I'd hope that he'd get down in time though). ;)

WVRedsFan
09-02-2007, 02:29 AM
I love it. Shows there is some fire on this team. Pujols is so cocky. It's the attitude and Brandon shows he has some too. It should be interesting tomorrow. I despise the Cardinals and this just adds to it. Like i said at the end of the game thread, this doesn't surprise me that "Albert" is this way. Anyone who has two different ages depending on who is listening must have an honesty problem, too.

My only hope is that the "Redbirds" suffer through a period like we have for the last 7 years. And I hope George "Albert" Grande suffers through it all. It would make my life complete.

(Sorry, but listening to George fawn on the Cardinals during a game makes me ill).

Cyclone792
09-02-2007, 02:38 AM
http://cache.boston.com/images/sports/redsox/2004/072404_varitekarod_1024768.jpg

For those that may or may not remember, Bronson Arroyo was the pitcher who drilled Alex Rodriguez seconds before that fantastic photo was snapped.

If I'm Pete Mackanin, I'm preparing a relief staff capable of going eight plus innings tomorrow afternoon. And that's because if I'm Bronson Arroyo, I'm throwing at Pujols until I'm ejected from the game.

On a sidenote, it'd be very interesting to see Dunn in a brawl. If I had to make a list of big league players I'd least want to get into a brawl with, Dunn would be near or at the top of that list. Dunn could step on David Eckstein while on his way toward knocking Pujols into right field.

Also, on that note, if I'm Pete Mackanin I tell Dunn he's making one convenient spot start at first base tomorrow afternoon.

fearofpopvol1
09-02-2007, 03:08 AM
Wow, that is really awesome. I love that Brandon stood up like that and I like that Mack is standing behind his player. Anyone get the feeling that Brandon is becoming a leader before our eyes?

I hope Arroyo plunks Pujols tomorrow, I really do.

11larkin11
09-02-2007, 03:32 AM
I get the feeling Phillips gets the day off tomorrow, just so the Mack doesnt take chances, and the explanation is "We need Kepps bat in the lineup"

Tom Servo
09-02-2007, 03:38 AM
I watched the play again, and it was really cheap by Pujols to basically just charge BP. I used to really respect Pujols as one of baseball's all around guys but in the last year he's fallen completely off that list.

Cedric
09-02-2007, 03:46 AM
Pujols is cheap all around. He's about as artificial as you can be.

Red in Chicago
09-02-2007, 03:52 AM
My new favorite quote.

"I'll just throw it through the (m.f.)."


I love Brandon Phillips.

GAC
09-02-2007, 05:48 AM
So we got Richard Pryor playing 2B for us huh? :lol:

Always Red
09-02-2007, 06:16 AM
For right or wrong (because I did not see the play, and have no idea if Phillips is right or is just whining about a hard, tough play), but somebody is most probably going to get thrown at today, and then it's going to be TLR who is doing the whining.

jojo
09-02-2007, 09:46 AM
Pujols always has and always will be an ass. Sounds like roid rage kicking in. I hope Phillips gets another chance at Pujols. I would plunk him next time.

Love a player or hate a player that's all part of being a fan. But the ORG shouldn't be a place for thoughtless, impulsive insinuations like this IMHO.

RANDY IN INDY
09-02-2007, 09:47 AM
I didn't get to see the game last night. Did Pujols make contact or take Phillips out, hard?

Highlifeman21
09-02-2007, 09:57 AM
My new favorite quote.

"I'll just throw it through the (m.f.)."


I love Brandon Phillips.


Excellent use of M.F. by Phillips.

37red
09-02-2007, 09:59 AM
I love it too, I don't know how far you can go taking out the second baseman and how far you can take it to the head of the runner? Any rule books out there?

LvJ
09-02-2007, 10:17 AM
Aim for the nose, Brandon. Today. I want to see it.

OldXOhio
09-02-2007, 11:12 AM
http://cache.boston.com/images/sports/redsox/2004/072404_varitekarod_1024768.jpg



Also, on that note, if I'm Pete Mackanin I tell Dunn he's making one convenient spot start at first base tomorrow afternoon.

Exactly what I was thinking as I read your post, although it'd be akin to showing your hand too early in a poker game.

On another note, I really wish the Reds had a Varitek on the team.

oneupper
09-02-2007, 11:15 AM
Just saw the replay. OBVIOUS interference. Pujols not only didn't slide but altered his path to run straight at Phillips.

Phillips was naive and was probably just thinking to complete the play. "Lesson Learned" perhaps...but IMO, too late and defintely should not have voiced his opinion in the press.

Did Mackanin argue for interference?

flyer85
09-02-2007, 11:27 AM
Hopefully Phillips learned his lesson ... and that is if the guy doesn't
a) slide or b) run off the play ... then you throw the ball right at his head.

flyer85
09-02-2007, 11:29 AM
I watched the play again, and it was really cheap by Pujols to basically just charge BP.no it wasn't. He didn't take him out(he didn't have to as BP vacated the area and threw off balance). Pujols ran at him and tried to intimidate BP into not turning the DP and it worked. Hopefully BP learned his lesson.

flyer85
09-02-2007, 11:32 AM
I didn't get to see the game last night. Did Pujols make contact or take Phillips out, hard?no, ran at him and Phillips got the hell out of the way and made a bad throw, it was the turning point in the game. I would think a lot of players around the league took note that Phillips can be intimidated.

oneupper
09-02-2007, 11:36 AM
no, ran at him and Phillips got the hell out of the way and made a bad throw, it was the turning point in the game. I would think a lot of players around the league took note that Phillips can be intimidated.

Unfortunately, I've seen BP be incredibly timid when on the other side of this play (as a runner).

He'll run out of the way or even do a belly flop to assure the pivot man has a clear throw to first.

The kid only TALKS tough. (Hate to say it..).

OldXOhio
09-02-2007, 11:38 AM
We'd be patting Phillips on the back had he done that to Miles in a similar situation. That said, anyone who's ever seen a throw directly into the face of an oncoming runner knows how graphic it can be. It's certainly not something you want to have to do, but I'd imagine BP is kicking himself a little over it. If he vents to the press about it, then so be it.

RBA
09-02-2007, 11:40 AM
I heard the play on XM with the Cards pbp team. They paused for a long time and than suggested BP must of tripped over his own feet. Looks like they didn't want to talk ill of Pujols.

flyer85
09-02-2007, 11:46 AM
I heard the play on XM with the Cards pbp team. They paused for a long time and than suggested BP must of tripped over his own feet. Looks like they didn't want to talk ill of Pujols.Pujols did nothing wrong, he gambled that BP wouldn't stand in there and drop with him with the throw and he won. Pujols knew there was a chance he would get drilled in the cabesa.

Chip R
09-02-2007, 11:46 AM
Hopefully Phillips learned his lesson ... and that is if the guy doesn't
a) slide or b) run off the play ... then you throw the ball right at his head.


Brandon should know by now that you aim right between the runner's eyes if you want him to slide. Hopefully that lesson has been reinforced. We'll see. Talk is cheap.

I get the feeling that the Reds aren't respected very much by other teams. I think other teams feel they can intimidate the Reds and they won't retaliate. While I don't want to get into a beanball war, I would like to see more of an attitude like Brandon's than what we've been seeing lo these many years. Another example was when Mike Cameron took out David Ross. Some say it was an accident and Ross shouldn't have been standing where he was. I didn't see the play but Ross went on the DL for 2 weeks and not a hair on Cameron's or any other Padre's head was harmed. Arroyo was pitching that day too. If LaRussa wants to whine, let him. Mackanin has a mouth too. I don't think Pujols should get hit but I'm guessing he'll find himself on base one way or another today. Perhaps we'll then see if Brandon is all hat and no cattle. If he's turning the DP and throws at Pujols' head and he hits him, que sera sera. Pujols is probably out of the game and out of the Cards lineup for a consderable amount of time whle they are chasing the Cubs. And if Pujols gets down, the Reds turn a double play. It's a win-win situation.

RBA
09-02-2007, 12:02 PM
Pujols did nothing wrong, he gambled that BP wouldn't stand in there and drop with him with the throw and he won. Pujols knew there was a chance he would get drilled in the cabesa.

Maybe, but that doesn't excuse the PBP team of making up the play on the field. Did BP trip over his own feet?

VR
09-02-2007, 12:05 PM
Good points Chip.

It's been a long time since the Reds have rallied around this time of incident. Instead of 'cattling' up, they curl up like potato bugs. A five game losing streak should just about get them past this incident.

Matt700wlw
09-02-2007, 12:19 PM
Maybe if this team had the guts to do something about it on the field, they wouldn't have to go through the media.

Pitching staff could send a message a drill somebody, Mackanin could come out and throw a fit and get thrown out, Phillips could have knocked his ass down anyway. Don't let Pujols dictate the play you make...YOU dictate the play you make, which I do think Brandon will do next time.


That would have been much more exciting and gutsy than running to the writers.

Pujols broke up a double play that led to his team winning the game, borderline unfair? You could make an argument....if the Reds didn't like it, or how it was done, and thought it was a cheap shot (which the umps didn't)...then do something about it. Preferably then....not to the media.

It would be nice to see the manager and the pitching staff stick up for their players for once ON the field, instead of letting the other team just have their way with them.


It won't happen.

cincrazy
09-02-2007, 12:55 PM
Unfortunately, I've seen BP be incredibly timid when on the other side of this play (as a runner).

He'll run out of the way or even do a belly flop to assure the pivot man has a clear throw to first.

The kid only TALKS tough. (Hate to say it..).

With all due respect, I totally disagree with that. I don't think he's intimidated or that he only talks tough. I just think he respects Pujols and didn't want to throw at the guy's head THIS time, but he made it clear as day that if it happened again, Pujols was taking one in the chin.

MartyFan
09-02-2007, 01:22 PM
Ladies and gentleman, say hello to the leader of this ball club, Brandon Phillips.

[EDIT]
I think going to the pres was fine...causes a spark when the teams walk on the field next time and adds some tension...now, that said, I hope Phillips, Arroyo or anyone else with a chance to drop AP does so. Not to mame the guy but to make a point.

KYRedsFan
09-02-2007, 01:26 PM
Love it. Next DP he turns should be aimed right for the runner's nose. They'll slide

Matt700wlw
09-02-2007, 01:26 PM
Ladies and gentleman, say hello to the leader of this ball club, Brandon Phillips.

Let's hope so...somebody has to be.

smith288
09-02-2007, 01:26 PM
Didnt see the play but wll watch today to see any possible "events"

MartyFan
09-02-2007, 01:27 PM
Let's hope so...somebody has to be.

AMEN!:beerme:

Reds Fanatic
09-02-2007, 01:36 PM
Too bad Pujols is out of the lineup today.

Matt700wlw
09-02-2007, 01:38 PM
Did Mackanin argue for interference?

Nope. If it was a such a big deal then....why didn't he?

Chip R
09-02-2007, 01:42 PM
Too bad Pujols is out of the lineup today.


They will be in Cincinnati soon enough. Pujols won't be sitting out then.

fearofpopvol1
09-02-2007, 01:43 PM
Too bad Pujols is out of the lineup today.

That's fine. Drill Ainkiel then.

TOBTTReds
09-02-2007, 02:04 PM
Maybe, but that doesn't excuse the PBP team of making up the play on the field. Did BP trip over his own feet?

Yes he did. His footwork was messed up.

KronoRed
09-02-2007, 02:46 PM
Too bad Pujols is out of the lineup today.

Chicken :devil:

vaticanplum
09-02-2007, 02:55 PM
I'm sorry to be such a girl, but I find all this talk of retaliation and the idea that Brandon Phillips's trash-talking making him a leader to be riconkulous.

If the Reds feel they have a problem being respected by other teams, then they should play better baseball. Retaliation doesn't help them win; in fact, it severely hurts them if it gets a player like Arroyo tossed. And I adore Brandon Phillips, but I'd rather other players imitate his great play than take pointers from anything he says during a press conference.

I like a good organic brawl just fine. Anything that's more planned has taken focus away from the actual playing of baseball. We're not selling boxing gloves here.

Matt700wlw
09-02-2007, 02:56 PM
More stuff from Trent -



Word from the St. Louis writers is that Tony La Russa sent one of his coaches, Dave McKay, to the Reds clubhouse to talk to Mackanin about last night's Pujols-Phillips deal for some kind of non-apology apology.


Here's what La Russa said: "I read what he said. Dave McKay is making a point to go see -- he has a great relationship with Mackanin. He did what Dave told him to do. He has a bad leg, so just run straight up and then peel off. All Phillips has got to do is just come across the bag. I just read what [Phillips] said, and he just misunderstood. He [Pujols] was going to run, and peel off. Dave probably has already talked to Mackanin, and told him that the young man is off base. He was doing what Dave told him to do. Nothing dirty about it."

Based on that, I'm not sure La Russa read what Pujols said.

redsmetz
09-02-2007, 02:58 PM
I guy who's office supply company used to be across the hall from my business played in the minors for the Reds. While at Spring Training in the 50's, Johnny Vander Meer was managing his squad. In the first game of a doubleheader, a runner came at him at second just like Pujols did with Phillips. He did the same thing as Phillips and, in his case, threw it into the stands. Johnny gave him an earful which cannot be printed here lest I be banned. He told him to do exactly what Mac is saying - Vander Meer assured him he'll get down.

The next game, sure enough, it happens again. Ken threw the ball straight three, hit the guy smack in the forehead and shot straight up in the air. The runner dropped like a rock. Never did it again.

RedFanAlways1966
09-02-2007, 03:10 PM
Here's what La Russa said: "He did what Dave told him to do. He has a bad leg, so just run straight up and then peel off. Nothing dirty about it."

Please! Tony being the lawyer that he is. Sliding will hurt a bad leg? I am not a doctor, but I'd think running is just as bad on the leg as sliding (if not worse).

I used to play shortstop. My Dad taught me to throw the ball right between the runner's eyes if he did not get down or out of the way on a DP attempt. He will move or get beaned. Next time he might learn the PROPER WAY to play the game. Nothing dirty about what Phillips is saying (although his tact needs some work). There is a PROPER WAY to play the game. If your leg is so bad (please!) that you cannot slide, then get the hell out of the way or get off the field. Or get beaned for good reason.

Like redsmetz said about Vander Meer. That is the way to play the game.

fearofpopvol1
09-02-2007, 03:10 PM
You've gotta believe that Pujols will be a PH at some point today.

Big Klu
09-02-2007, 03:13 PM
More stuff from Trent -



Word from the St. Louis writers is that Tony La Russa sent one of his coaches, Dave McKay, to the Reds clubhouse to talk to Mackanin about last night's Pujols-Phillips deal for some kind of non-apology apology.


Here's what La Russa said: "I read what he said. Dave McKay is making a point to go see -- he has a great relationship with Mackanin. He did what Dave told him to do. He has a bad leg, so just run straight up and then peel off. All Phillips has got to do is just come across the bag. I just read what [Phillips] said, and he just misunderstood. He [Pujols] was going to run, and peel off. Dave probably has already talked to Mackanin, and told him that the young man is off base. He was doing what Dave told him to do. Nothing dirty about it."

Based on that, I'm not sure La Russa read what Pujols said.

If the runner is peeling off, he should peel off to the OF side if the second baseman is turning the double play, and to the INF side if the shortstop is turning it. LaRussa's explanation is B.S.

WVRedsFan
09-02-2007, 03:17 PM
The first words of Chris Welsh's mouth, "what Brandon Phillips did wrong was..." and the last words were, "...he needs to quit yapping to the press..."

I love our TV team. Thou shalt not cirticize thy Cardinal nation.

Brandon was asked a question and he answered. I'm sure he didn't go run down Fay and Rosecrans to tell them.

TeamCasey
09-02-2007, 04:37 PM
Does anyone have a link to video? We weren't home last night to see it.

Cedric
09-02-2007, 04:42 PM
Our tv team just couldn't be any worse. The only thing Brandon did wrong was not be prepared for a bush league move by Pujols. Next time I hope he throws right at him.

fearofpopvol1
09-02-2007, 04:57 PM
I knew Arroyo should've plunked Ankiel today.

BoydsOfSummer
09-02-2007, 05:25 PM
Pujols does the little things.

Remember Reggie Jackson jutting his hip out to deflect that double-play ball in the Series?

mth123
09-02-2007, 05:39 PM
I'm sorry to be such a girl, but I find all this talk of retaliation and the idea that Brandon Phillips's trash-talking making him a leader to be riconkulous.

If the Reds feel they have a problem being respected by other teams, then they should play better baseball. Retaliation doesn't help them win; in fact, it severely hurts them if it gets a player like Arroyo tossed. And I adore Brandon Phillips, but I'd rather other players imitate his great play than take pointers from anything he says during a press conference.

I like a good organic brawl just fine. Anything that's more planned has taken focus away from the actual playing of baseball. We're not selling boxing gloves here.


:clap::clap::clap:

flyer85
09-02-2007, 06:04 PM
Ladies and gentleman, say hello to the leader of this ball club, Brandon Phillips.
BP would have won kudos in the clubhouse by dropping Pujols with the throw, he won't get any for bailing on the throw and complaining about it later.

flyer85
09-02-2007, 06:08 PM
Pujols does the little things.
If what he did was intentional it is the kind of thing he will get props for from his teammates ... doing something to help the team while taking a personal risk(it's what leaders do).

puca
09-02-2007, 07:09 PM
BP would have won kudos in the clubhouse by dropping Pujols with the throw, he won't get any for bailing on the throw and complaining about it later.

Exactly.

Pujols did his 'job'. Brandon didn't do his.

Team Clark
09-04-2007, 01:42 AM
Brandon is a team player and a gamer. Every day he plays he shows me more and more that he inching closer to becoming a Superstar 2B. He wasn't on my list a few months ago as an elite 2B. However, after watching him continue to elevate his play and seeing him "handle" situations on the field he has made me a believer.

Team Clark
09-04-2007, 01:43 AM
Exactly.

Pujols did his 'job'. Brandon didn't do his.

Every player has to go through a situation to learn what to do next time. Something tells me he knows what to do now. :D

GAC
09-04-2007, 05:52 AM
Every player has to go through a situation to learn what to do next time. Something tells me he knows what to do now. :D

Yep. Next time do as Pete has learned in that situation.... you make the throw, and if it hits the guy in the head then next time maybe he'll learn to get down. I don't fault Pujols in that situation at all. If it were reversed, and it was a Red's player going into 2B like that, would we be complaining? ;)

jojo
09-04-2007, 11:12 AM
To me, you expect the runner to go down in that situation. I don't think BP had contemplated the possibility that he wouldn't and wasn't prepared to react when Pujols didn't. It's probably not a mistake that BP will make again.

Caseyfan21
09-04-2007, 11:13 AM
Phillips should have done what they teach middle infielders to do from a young age...throw low and make the runner get down. I haven't even played middle infield and I know that. If Phillips throws low he would have drilled Pujols and that would have made his point better than whining to the press. It probably would have started a brawl but it's the right play.

Was it a cheap play by Pujols? Probably. Is Pujols at fault? Absolutely not. Brandon Phillips has to throw low and make him get down.

Edit: And I do like his comments to the press...it's nice to see someone show a little emotion on this team.

M2
09-04-2007, 11:30 AM
No one ever disrupted more throws or ran into more fielders than Pete Rose. I don't have a problem with Pujols not getting out of the way. I also don't have a problem with Brandon Phillips re-arranging his dentistry if he tries it again.

bucksfan2
09-04-2007, 11:31 AM
I didn't see the play but I have heard quite a bit about it. I agree 100% with Phillips and think it was a dirty play by Pujols. My reasoning is that you can't, as a middle infielder turning a double play, throw the ball directly at a guy's head. Pujols shouldn't put has season/career on line by running standing up to break up a double play. If Phillips uncorks a throw at Pujols' head he could possibly catch him square in the eye socket and a ball traveling 70 mph is a weapon. Pujols could have significant damage and Phillips could have significant damage due to the fact that he hit another player in the head. As a fan its hard to understand what is going through Phillips mind in this situation but I think he did the right thing. As a baseball player you never throw the ball at someone's head.

Chip R
09-04-2007, 12:13 PM
Brandon is just upset he messed up that throw. I don't think anyone would have a problem if the shoe was on the other foot.

That said, I hope Brandon isn't just talk. I liken the Cards to the schoolyard bully. They are the king of the hill and are going to push around the other kids until they stand up for themselves. There doesn't need to be a beanball war but I think it's clear that the Reds are intimidated by the Cards. Mackanin may have been blowing smoke but he said there isn't a lot of difference in talent between the two teams. Yet the Reds got swept over the weekend. I think the Cards knew they could take advantage of the Reds by doing things like that and they probably - and rightly - figured the Reds wouldn't do anything about it. But Brandon did speak up. Hopefully he will back up his words. Hard slides into 2nd are one way of doing that, brushing back batters is another way. Obviously they do need to play better but even if they can't they still don't need to play like they have their heads buried in the sand.

Roy Tucker
09-04-2007, 12:30 PM
Like many others have said, this is all just the education of Brandon Phillips as a MLB second baseman. Although I'm a little surprised that he hasn't learned this by now.

I did notice in the Pirate series from last week that Brandon as a baserunner was awfully accommodating on double plays. It was the game when Maholm got all the double plays. BP was on first, a ball was hit sharply to the Pirate 2B, it was obviously a DP, Phillips ran about 3 steps toward 2B and then peeled off.

My thought at the time was "jeez Brandon, at least make it a little hard on the guy". It seemed a professional courtesy infielder-to-infielder kind of thing. I'm not keen on running straight up at a IF turning two, but I do expect the baserunner to run hard towards 2B and drop/peel off only when the throw is made. Don't give the guy all the time in the world and nothing to worry about. A little thing, but in baseball sometimes a little thing can become a big thing.

smith288
09-04-2007, 12:34 PM
I used to run with my hands up in high school when there was a potential DP. Was it wrong? Didn't care. I never got thrown at for it so I continued.

Chip R
09-04-2007, 01:17 PM
Like many others have said, this is all just the education of Brandon Phillips as a MLB second baseman. Although I'm a little surprised that he hasn't learned this by now.

I did notice in the Pirate series from last week that Brandon as a baserunner was awfully accommodating on double plays. It was the game when Maholm got all the double plays. BP was on first, a ball was hit sharply to the Pirate 2B, it was obviously a DP, Phillips ran about 3 steps toward 2B and then peeled off.

My thought at the time was "jeez Brandon, at least make it a little hard on the guy". It seemed a professional courtesy infielder-to-infielder kind of thing. I'm not keen on running straight up at a IF turning two, but I do expect the baserunner to run hard towards 2B and drop/peel off only when the throw is made. Don't give the guy all the time in the world and nothing to worry about. A little thing, but in baseball sometimes a little thing can become a big thing.


And maybe other teams see this and know they don't have to worry about the Reds standing up for themselves. It may not matter agains the Buccos but against StL you better believe it does.

flyer85
09-04-2007, 01:25 PM
If Phillips uncorks a throw at Pujols' head ... it would have been amazing to watch how quickly he would have gotten down.

Benihana
09-04-2007, 01:35 PM
Brandon Phillips is my favorite player on the Reds.

RedsManRick
09-04-2007, 01:38 PM
I really don't like their excuse for Pujols. If he can't slide, then peel off. If you can't slide and refuse to peel off, expect a 2B to throw the ball through you. There are ways to pressure the throw without risking getting one in the face. Second-basemen expect to be challenged, but they don't expect their options to be either throw at the guy or give up the double play.

Like a batter crowding the plate too much who gets one high and tight, there's a natural set of checks and balances which allows both people to be competitive while avoiding severe risk to either player.

Phillips was angry because Pujols chose to force Phillips in to that decision. All else being equal, Phillips doesn't want to throw the ball at Pujols, he'd rather turn the double play. It's a delicate balance that can spiral if you aren't careful. Maybe next time Phillips throws at the runner and hits him in the face -- everybody loses. Or the time after that a runner comes in high and tears up Phillips' knee.

The unspoken rules are there for a reason and it will be interesting to see how Phillips reacts next time he's in a similar situation.

flyer85
09-04-2007, 01:46 PM
I really don't like their excuse for Pujols. I didn't buy there line. Pujols knew where BP was going and if he wanted to run off the play he would have went to the outfield side. From my point of view there is no doubt what Pujols did was intentional. I am also pretty sure Pujols sat on Sunday because LaRussa didn't want to get in a beanball war with the Reds that could have resulted in injuries and/or suspensions.

M2
09-04-2007, 02:09 PM
I did notice in the Pirate series from last week that Brandon as a baserunner was awfully accommodating on double plays.

I miss the days when Barry Larkin and Bill Doran/Mariano Duncan used to plow into Jay Bell and Jose Lind. No quarter asked, none received. One of the best parts of the 1990 NLCS was the action around the second base bag.

IslandRed
09-04-2007, 06:09 PM
To me, you expect the runner to go down in that situation. I don't think BP had contemplated the possibility that he wouldn't and wasn't prepared to react when Pujols didn't. It's probably not a mistake that BP will make again.

I tend to agree with that. Once ballplayers start cashing major-league paychecks, they generally lose their enthusiasm for putting the ol' noggin in the way of a throw. I'm sure Phillips was surprised. Bet he's not next time.

jojo
09-04-2007, 07:25 PM
Here's some food for thought....

I think that if Brandon tried to drill a runner in the nose (i.e. take his head off), Brandon would be dirty because basically the most logical outcome would be injury.

On the other hand, if he drilled a runner in the chest, I'd be more inclined to praise him.

Is that a hair that can be split or is the only play to let it fly and have the chips land where they may?

Chip R
09-04-2007, 07:59 PM
Here's some food for thought....

I think that if Brandon tried to drill a runner in the nose (i.e. take his head off), Brandon would be dirty because basically the most logical outcome would be injury.

On the other hand, if he drilled a runner in the chest, I'd be more inclined to praise him.

Is that a hair that can be split or is the only play to let it fly and have the chips land where they may?


I don't think anyone is going to intentionally try to drill any runner. But you don't aim for the chest, you aim for the head because if you aim for the chest, you're more apt to hit the runner and even if you don't you're going to bounce the throw to 1st since you are throwing at a lower target.

Also if you drilled a runner in the chest, you could kill someone because you might hit them in the heart. It's easier to move your head than it is your chest. Now if people were wearing facemasks like in hockey, you might see more double plays broken up since the risk of getting injured goes down. But even then, if you see a ball coming for your eyes, the instinct is to duck or flinch. Watch any game where the batter fouls it back to the screen. All the people in the first couple of rows flinch instinctively even though they won't get hit. You play the game, you take your chances.

VR
09-05-2007, 09:59 AM
A five game losing streak should just about get them past this incident.

Should be able to shake this thing off any day now.