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View Full Version : Is anyone else impressed with Bill Bray?



OnBaseMachine
09-03-2007, 02:33 AM
I know it's a very small sample size (only 9.1 innings) but is anyone else as impressed with Bill Bray as I am up to this point? He has looked very good since returning from the disabled list. He looks bigger and stronger and the results have shown. His slider has been nearly unhittable at times, and his fastball has consistently hit in the 93 area. If he continues to pitch like this then I could forgive Wayne Krivsky for the trade. With Bill Bray and Jared Burton the Reds now have two young power arms at the major league level who can get hitters out on a regular basis. Throw in Brad Salmon who pitched well earlier in the year along with Marcus McBeth who I like and you have the makings of a potentially solid bullpen next season. Plus Jon Coutlangus has been solid, if not spectacular since the All-Star break.

And that's not all. Tyler Pelland has been terrific since the Reds decided to shift him to the bullpen earlier in the season. He's pitched very well (22.2 IP, 3.18 ERA, 24 baserunners allowed, 9.5 K/9) at Louisville and could possibly see a stint in Cincy before the season ends (though doubtful because he isn't on the 40-man roster).

And on down in Chattanooga, Josh Roenicke, Pedro Viola, and Carlos Guevara have had great seasons. Guevara is more of a trickster (screwball is his out pitch), though Roenicke and Viola have legit stuff to be major league relievers. Roenicke is a possible future closer candidate. Look for him to debut sometime next season with the Reds IMO.

So, the potential is there for the Reds bullpen to improve. Let's just hope Wayne Krivsky allows the young guys a fair chance to prove themselves instead of going out and signing a bunch more 35+ year old washed up relievers like he has the past two seasons. Hopefully he has learned his lesson by now.

WVRedsFan
09-03-2007, 02:57 AM
There is no doubt the potential is there. I'll get excited when he doesn't give up inherited runners and quits not paying attention to the runners. He's young, so he'll learn, but I have a hard time getting excited about relief pitfchers anyway. Used to be that the Reds' bullpen was a given, even when JimBo was in charge and these days we can't find anyone who can get anyone out without a mental error scewing things up.

Someday. Someday...

Blitz Dorsey
09-03-2007, 09:21 PM
Yes! I am usually impressed when I see him pitch. That trade looks great when he his on his game. Basically, it was a bunch of scrubs and Bill Bray. Well, Kearns is more than a scrub, but not by much. Felipe couldn't crack this lineup right now if he had naked pics of Castellini. I will qualify him as a scrub.

Majewski is the scrubbiest of them all. That clown can't pitch worth a lick. But if Bray keeps on keeping on, that trade is going to look golden by this time next year.

KronoRed
09-03-2007, 09:32 PM
He looks serviceable

RedlegJake
09-04-2007, 08:42 AM
I'm impressed by Bray - the potential is there. And the trade may look really good in a couple of years if Daryl Thompson continues to progress.

Chip R
09-04-2007, 11:12 AM
He looks serviceable


For us, servicable is fantastic.

vaticanplum
09-04-2007, 08:51 PM
"Impressed" is a strong word when it comes to the Reds, but yes, he's been well worth watching. I actually always thought he was the cornerstone of that deal for the Reds; if we're patient, I do believe he could prove to be a good long-term investment.

fearofpopvol1
09-04-2007, 10:07 PM
Still feel that way after tonight?

Matt700wlw
09-04-2007, 10:08 PM
Not today

OnBaseMachine
09-04-2007, 10:11 PM
One game does not change my opinion. Especially when the rally started with a routine groundball to second base.

remdog
09-04-2007, 11:06 PM
One game does not change my opinion.

And 9 innings by Bray doesn't change my opinion of Krivsky's botching of the trade.

Rem

Spitball
09-05-2007, 12:05 AM
And 9 innings by Bray doesn't change my opinion of Krivsky's botching of the trade.

Rem

...and .250 hitting right fielders and second basemen with a little bit of power make lots of money, are easily replaced, and have little trade value. Pitchers who are first round draft picks may take time and are worth the wait. Bray has a chance to be an affordable contributor while Kearns and Lopez will bounce around like Todd Walker and Juan Encarnacion. The trade will take time to be fairly evaluated.

WVRedsFan
09-05-2007, 01:16 AM
Still feel that way after tonight?

As I said earlier this year when it was proclaimed that everything would be alright when Bray and Guardado came back, he's not this franchise's savior.

I still do not like the trade. I never will. From the looks of it we traded Lopez and Kearns for Bray. Mejewski will never amount to much in a Reds uniform, but he may be servicable with a short leash. Clayton is gone. Harris is starring in the AL. We got Bray only. That said, he's not performing like he was worth two position players (I still say Kearns would have flourished in GABP, but that's just me). But, he's young and will learn and I think will become a good middle reliever. So, that's one. We need 4 or 5 more.

GAC
09-05-2007, 07:34 AM
Still feel that way after tonight?

Harang got hammered the other day. Does your opinion change of him now?

Bray is a 1st rounder who just turned 24. One bad outing does not a season make. He has only pitched 9.1 innings total this year.

Ltlabner
09-05-2007, 07:38 AM
Like OBM I like Bray. It doesn't justify the trade that he's showing signs of developing his tallent, but it's still nice that he's on the team.

For that matter, I like Cooter also. I think they can both be usefull parts of the bullpen if they can be developed. Unfortunatley, with the Reds, thats a huge if.

GAC
09-05-2007, 08:27 AM
Like OBM I like Bray. It doesn't justify the trade that he's showing signs of developing his tallent, but it's still nice that he's on the team.

For that matter, I like Cooter also. I think they can both be usefull parts of the bullpen if they can be developed. Unfortunatley, with the Reds, thats a huge if.

Didn't we also get Daryl Thompson (a swap with Wagner)? He was doing pretty good at Dayton; but I see he is now at Sarasota, where in 105 innings has gone 9-5 with a 3.77 ERA.

remdog
09-05-2007, 08:27 AM
...and .250 hitting right fielders and second basemen with a little bit of power make lots of money, are easily replaced, and have little trade value. Pitchers who are first round draft picks may take time and are worth the wait. Bray has a chance to be an affordable contributor while Kearns and Lopez will bounce around like Todd Walker and Juan Encarnacion. The trade will take time to be fairly evaluated.

Trading two everyday starters for a spot reliever is not a deal that a rational person would do. And that's what this deal has come down to.

Rem

Danny Serafini
09-05-2007, 10:49 AM
Harris is starring in the AL.

Harris isn't starring, in fact he's been almost Castro-esque the second half with a .647 OPS since July 1 and no home runs since June 18. He merely got off to a hot start.

puca
09-05-2007, 11:41 AM
Harang got hammered the other day. Does your opinion change of him now?

Bray is a 1st rounder who just turned 24. One bad outing does not a season make. He has only pitched 9.1 innings total this year.

Of course Ryan Wagner, who went to the Nationals in that deal, is also a 1st rounder. And he just turned 25. Clearly though Ryan has a boatload more of bad ML innings under his belt than Bray. It was too early to be encouraged by Bray's results, just as it is too early to be discouraged by them.

flyer85
09-05-2007, 11:44 AM
interesting timing.

Bray has quality stuff but needs to refine his command a bit. He could turn into a quality backend of the bullpen pitcher. He just needs some more time but the Reds pen is so bad he is one of the better options.

flyer85
09-05-2007, 11:49 AM
Harris isn't starring, in fact he's been almost Castro-esque the second half with a .647 OPS since July 1 and no home runs since June 18. He merely got off to a hot start.the name Keppinger comes to mind.

Congrats on making it back to the majors.

M2
09-05-2007, 12:17 PM
Bray has quality stuff but needs to refine his command a bit. He could turn into a quality backend of the bullpen pitcher. He just needs some more time but the Reds pen is so bad he is one of the better options.

Agreed. He doesn't have one of those Greek God arms, but, with some experience, he could be a solid, dependable primary setup man, perhaps even a closer for a team that didn't have a closer.

It's not a given that it will happen. I'm a little concerned about his early season injuries. How solid is his arm? I don't know, but he spent four months on the shelf with a nebulous, supposedly minor injury. Whatever it was, it was more than minor and we'll have to wait to see if it's something that will return.

Spitball
09-06-2007, 12:05 AM
Trading two everyday starters for a spot reliever is not a deal that a rational person would do. And that's what this deal has come down to.

Rem

When the two starters are .250-high priced types, they are considered dumps. Good riddance to both. I'd rather have the arm. Kearns and Lopez are simply salary drains with little trade value...

Cyclone792
09-06-2007, 12:15 AM
When the two starters are .250-high priced types, they are considered dumps. Good riddance to both. I'd rather have the arm. Kearns and Lopez are simply salary drains with little trade value...

I don't intend to start another trade discussion, but it should be noted that Austin Kearns has hit fairly well on the road this season at a .307/.381/.451/.832 clip. Last season on the road, Kearns hit .253/.378/.462/.840.

RFK is one of the biggest pitcher's parks in baseball today, and it's destroyed just about every hitter that's played there. Kearns' lifetime OPS in RFK is only .711, and that's not terribly surprising given how much the park suppresses offense.

The Nats are due to open a new park next season, and I wouldn't be shocked at all to see a nice bump in Kearns' overall stat line (unless the new park is also a pitcher's paradise). We should have a much better understanding of Austin Kearns the player in 2008 and 2009 if he's fully healthy and in a more neutral park.

At this point, considering all the data and what's known about Kearns (including very good right field defense), I'd say labeling him a salary drain with little trade value is wholly inaccurate.

Spitball
09-06-2007, 12:38 AM
At this point, considering all the data and what's known about Kearns (including very good right field defense), I'd say labeling him a salary drain with little trade value is wholly inaccurate.

Corner outfielders within the range of average production and questionable health history are not worth draining the budget. They can be replaced with youth (see Hamilton, Denorfia, et al) and/or journeymen. Money saved on corner outfielders and second basemen can be spent on pitching.

WVRedsFan
09-06-2007, 12:41 AM
I don't intend to start another trade discussion, but it should be noted that Austin Kearns has hit fairly well on the road this season at a .307/.381/.451/.832 clip. Last season on the road, Kearns hit .253/.378/.462/.840.

RFK is one of the biggest pitcher's parks in baseball today, and it's destroyed just about every hitter that's played there. Kearns' lifetime OPS in RFK is only .711, and that's not terribly surprising given how much the park suppresses offense.

The Nats are due to open a new park next season, and I wouldn't be shocked at all to see a nice bump in Kearns' overall stat line (unless the new park is also a pitcher's paradise). We should have a much better understanding of Austin Kearns the player in 2008 and 2009 if he's fully healthy and in a more neutral park.

At this point, considering all the data and what's known about Kearns (including very good right field defense), I'd say labeling him a salary drain with little trade value is wholly inaccurate.

I totally agree. As I said before, I really expected Austin Kearns to shine at GABP, but injuries and questionable handling of him never gave him a chance. And, like you, I fully expect him to break out next year at Washington's new stadium which should even out his statistics. Even Austin for Bray is a stretch for a reasonable trade. Even if you think Lopez is fodder (and many do), he was worth more than Gary Majewski.

Cyclone792
09-06-2007, 12:42 AM
Corner outfielders within the range of average production and questionable health history are not worth draining the budget. They can be replaced with youth (see Hamilton, Denorfia, et al) and/or journeymen. Money saved on corner outfielders and second basemen can be spent on pitching.

Kearns' road OPS the past two seasons is ~.840 - and on-base heavy at that - and that's a far better indicator of his current level of play than what RFK has done to him. The league average right fielder's OPS hovers around .800 in neutral ball parks.

Toss in good defense, and that's an above average player right there.

The list of young outfielders or journeymen outfielders capable of that caliber play is exceptionally short.

Topcat
09-06-2007, 02:31 AM
Kearns' road OPS the past two seasons is ~.840 - and on-base heavy at that - and that's a far better indicator of his current level of play than what RFK has done to him. The league average right fielder's OPS hovers around .800 in neutral ball parks.

Toss in good defense, and that's an above average player right there.

The list of young outfielders or journeymen outfielders capable of that caliber play is exceptionally short.



I see your point Cyclone, honestly I do. But try selling that to the Cavemen that run a lot of the MLB franchises. Dunn who is everybody's whipping boy had a low value on the trade market due to his contract situation and poor performance value. The Numbers do not show that with Dunn but trying to convince many other GM's of his value is like trying to explain the Microwave to cavemen.

Cyclone792
09-06-2007, 02:47 AM
I see your point Cyclone, honestly I do. But try selling that to the Cavemen that run a lot of the MLB franchises. Dunn who is everybody's whipping boy had a low value on the trade market due to his contract situation and poor performance value. The Numbers do not show that with Dunn but trying to convince many other GM's of his value is like trying to explain the Microwave to cavemen.

I actually think Bowden and the Nats have Kearns inked to a pretty decent deal right now since they've got him locked up rather cheaply through his peak years, especially since that deal can potentially include two free agent years if the Nats pick up the 2010 option.

We obviously have no idea how Washington's new park will play, but if it's a run neutral park, then I definitely think Kearns is capable of tossing up a few seasons with an .850 OPS. Add his defensive value to that, and the Nats have a pretty good deal considering Kearns' age and the deal extending through one or two free agent years.

pedro
09-06-2007, 02:55 AM
I actually think Bowden and the Nats have Kearns inked to a pretty decent deal right now since they've got him locked up rather cheaply through his peak years, especially since that deal can potentially include two free agent years if the Nats pick up the 2010 option.

We obviously have no idea how Washington's new park will play, but if it's a run neutral park, then I definitely think Kearns is capable of tossing up a few seasons with an .850 OPS. Add his defensive value to that, and the Nats have a pretty good deal considering Kearns' age and the deal extending through one or two free agent years.


I hope it works out b/c I always liked Austin.

bucksfan2
09-06-2007, 10:01 AM
I actually think Bowden and the Nats have Kearns inked to a pretty decent deal right now since they've got him locked up rather cheaply through his peak years, especially since that deal can potentially include two free agent years if the Nats pick up the 2010 option.

We obviously have no idea how Washington's new park will play, but if it's a run neutral park, then I definitely think Kearns is capable of tossing up a few seasons with an .850 OPS. Add his defensive value to that, and the Nats have a pretty good deal considering Kearns' age and the deal extending through one or two free agent years.

Oh Austin Keanrs. He wall always be loved in this city. Most people look at the guy with blinders on. They see the guy who he was supposed to be rather than the guy he developed into. What he has become is one of the worst every day right fielders. He isn't that rookie that came up tearing the cover off the ball. Rather he has be come the post ray king collision player. I find it ironic that Kearns can do no wrong yet Dunn (same draft class, similar age) can do no right. Remember when Kearns took the season for granted and came into camp fat. The reds sent him down and there was an outcry for how wrong it was to send him down. Dunn does that and he would be berated even more. Fact of the matter is he will never become the player we all hoped him to be. He probably still sufferes from that shoulder injury and his long swing doesn't help much. If he hadn't been a local kid it would have been good riddance a long time ago. Kearns I wish you the best but glad you are doing it in Washington's outfield.

M2
09-06-2007, 10:13 AM
Oh Austin Keanrs. He wall always be loved in this city. Most people look at the guy with blinders on.

Do you live in some sort of alternate universe? Because you can't be talking about the Austin Kearns who played for the Reds. No one loves that guy.

Cyclone792
09-06-2007, 11:27 AM
Oh Austin Keanrs. He wall always be loved in this city. Most people look at the guy with blinders on. They see the guy who he was supposed to be rather than the guy he developed into. What he has become is one of the worst every day right fielders.

Uh sure, that just makes all sorts of sense ...

RedsManRick
09-06-2007, 11:55 AM
Kearns and Junior have very similar numbers on the road and Kearns is a better defender at this point.

Johnny Footstool
09-06-2007, 12:08 PM
I hope Bray develops into a good pitcher. He has a live arm and a lot of upside.

As for the trade, I've made my opinion known many, many times in the past, so I won't comment on it now.

KronoRed
09-06-2007, 02:31 PM
Kearns loved in this town? please..he got it just as bad as Dunn

fearofpopvol1
09-06-2007, 02:53 PM
Harang got hammered the other day. Does your opinion change of him now?

Bray is a 1st rounder who just turned 24. One bad outing does not a season make. He has only pitched 9.1 innings total this year.

I never said I didn't like Bray or Harang, I just asked if it changed anyone's opinion. Big difference.

Dan
09-07-2007, 09:48 AM
Does anyone think Bray could develop into a starter down the road? Wasn't he a starter in college and the low minors?

bucksfan2
09-07-2007, 11:03 AM
Does anyone think Bray could develop into a starter down the road? Wasn't he a starter in college and the low minors?

NO. The record just isn't that impressive of relievers turned starters. The only guy recently that I can think of is Lowe and he is a slightly above average starter.

BoydsOfSummer
09-07-2007, 11:35 PM
I wish he had a little more tilt on that slider.