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cincinnati chili
09-07-2007, 03:07 AM
So much for the second-coming of The Natural.

Actually, come to think of it, maybe Roy Hobbs was on the juice.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3008363

oneupper
09-07-2007, 06:33 AM
If this is true, Ankiel needs a brain transplant. That's for being so stupid as to take out this prescription in his real name.

I'm not surprised. There's probably still a ton of players STILL on HGH (since it is undetectable), but I guess they'll all check HOW they get their stuff now. My guess the latin players probably have the easiest access.

It might make sense to check some bags when they come back from Venezuela or the Dominican Republic.

OnBaseMachine
09-07-2007, 06:38 AM
I'd guess he isn't the only Cardinal who received it...

Right Albert?

MrCinatit
09-07-2007, 07:53 AM
I'd guess he isn't the only Cardinal who received it...
Right Albert?


Shhhh. George Grande might hear you.

It states he took out the prescriptions when they were legal in '04, then stopped taking them in '05 when they became illegal.

Uh-huh. Right. And I just ate some Swiss cheese made from the moon.

Joseph
09-07-2007, 10:53 AM
Cheaters!

Just saying.

PuffyPig
09-07-2007, 10:54 AM
Shhhh. George Grande might hear you.

It states he took out the prescriptions when they were legal in '04, then stopped taking them in '05 when they became illegal.

Uh-huh. Right. And I just ate some Swiss cheese made from the moon.


It didn't say he stopped using them, it says he stopped receiving them in 2005.

The artcicle makes no comments about whether or not he ever used them.

mbgrayson
09-07-2007, 11:09 AM
But lets be real here folks. There is also nothing saying that he stopped. Even 3 years ago, HGH was a well known, controversial substance. It didn't get banned unexectedly. And here we have a guy stocking up on it (a years supply) right before the ban. How many people get their medicine supply a year at a time?

HGH (human growth hormone) has been banned from most sports for over 10 years. There are many adverse effects, including that after prolonged use, the body stops manufacturing natual HGH, which can lead athletes to continuing use of artificial HGH. It is only legal for treatment of a deficiency of natural HGH in the body.

I would be interested to see how much of a weight and physique change Ankiel had from his first stint in MLB as a pitcher compared to now.

I will be watching the developments unfold, and waiting to hear what Ankiel has to say.

MrCinatit
09-07-2007, 11:10 AM
It didn't say he stopped using them, it says he stopped receiving them in 2005.

The artcicle makes no comments about whether or not he ever used them.

This is very true.
And, perhaps he did stop receiving them...as Rick Ankiel.

Cedric
09-07-2007, 11:18 AM
Doesn't it seem like Dave Duncan and Tony Larussa are always around the 'roiders?

Duncan has his own son on the crap. Pujols is obvious and now Ankiel.

Chip R
09-07-2007, 11:21 AM
This is very true.
And, perhaps he did stop receiving them...as Rick Ankiel.


Maybe he's getting them now under Ron Mexico. Vick won't be using that alias for a while.

RedsManRick
09-07-2007, 11:23 AM
This is such a non-story. Who cares? Junior has his hamstring nailed to his leg. So what if Ankiel took a supplement that wasn't illegal and wasn't banned by MLB? It's like McGwire taking Andro. There are so many things that athletes do and get done to their bodies, particularly for the sake of recovery. To act like HGH is somehow distinctly worse, somehow "more" cheating just strikes me as crap.

How come Mike and Mike spend 30 minutes on this and 5 seconds talking about a star defensive player for the Patriots getting suspended for 4 games doing the exact same thing? It's the media giving grossly disproportionate attention to certain events beyond their merit for the purpose of ratings and selling more papers. I'm so freaking sick of it.

oneupper
09-07-2007, 11:37 AM
This is such a non-story. Who cares? Junior has his hamstring nailed to his leg. So what if Ankiel took a supplement that wasn't illegal and wasn't banned by MLB? It's like McGwire taking Andro. There are so many things that athletes do and get done to their bodies, particularly for the sake of recovery. To act like HGH is somehow distinctly worse, somehow "more" cheating just strikes me as crap.

How come Mike and Mike spend 30 minutes on this and 5 seconds talking about a star defensive player for the Patriots getting suspended for 4 games doing the exact same thing? It's the media giving grossly disproportionate attention to certain events beyond their merit for the purpose of ratings and selling more papers. I'm so freaking sick of it.

For my part, I'm getting sick of the steriod apologists playing this stuff down at every chance they get.

HGH is NOT a supplement. It is a controlled substance and YES it is legal...if you're a MIDGET.

The REASON it's a controlled substance is because it promotes cell growth. Why is that a problem? Unbridled cell growth = CANCER.

The connection has been made in rats only, granted, but that's because we don't test it on healthy humans (thank goodness).

Who cares? Well, I do. As a sports fan, I like my games fair, if possible. And it helps if the young people playing aren't killing themselves in process, too.

RedsManRick
09-07-2007, 11:44 AM
Oneupper, so why do we care if a player is taking a substance that's going to give him cancer. It's still at best a side story and should not be taking precedence over the actual events on the field. Sports coverage is becoming like the rest of the tabloid media. News is becoming news because some office bigwig thinks they'll get ratings for it, not because of its importance. And then they justify continued coverage of the topic because of their own past coverage.

If Ankiel is going to be banned, then it's relevant. Even as a news story in the Dispatch, it has enough relevance for a 60 second mention. However, it should not be a 5 minute lead on SportsCenter, a entire segment on radio, etc.

I like my games fair too. But guess what, I don't get a chance to enjoy the games because I'm overwhelmed with "news" about a report about how somebody might have cheated 3 years ago. Sure, alert us to the story. But don't spend 10 minutes debating it at the cost of actually covering the sport itself.

It's like there's all sorts of serious events happening around the world affected millions of people's lives and we're getting treated to non-stop coverage on whether a senator for one of the least populous states might have homosexual tendencies. Uggh!

News in general, and sports news in particular, is decreasingly about relevance and information distribution and more and more about bumping the ratings up to get more advertising dollars. Maybe I'm an idealist, but I really don't care about what Rick Ankiel might have done 3 years ago when I'm watching a sporting news show unless it's going to have some tangible affect on the events of today and tomorrow.

flyer85
09-07-2007, 11:47 AM
I think most people have grown tired of the entire steroid story. An era is tainted because of performance enhancing drugs and it seems as if only a few will avoid the stain. In the end we will never know the truth of who did and who didn't. The only evidence likely to ever be presented is hearsay and anecdotal.

RedsManRick
09-07-2007, 11:55 AM
I think most people have grown tired of the entire steroid story. An era is tainted because of performance enhancing drugs and it seems as if only a few will avoid the stain. In the end we will never know the truth of who did and who didn't. The only evidence likely to ever be presented is hearsay and anecdotal.

It's not that era is tainted and that disappoints me so much. It's that every era is tainted by something and the real effect of that taint is being blown way out of proportion.

It's the coverage of the taint rather than the taint itself that is detracting from the game.

oneupper
09-07-2007, 11:56 AM
Oneupper, so why do we care if a player is taking a substance that's going to give him cancer. It's still at best a side story and should not be taking precedence over the actual events on the field. Sports coverage is becoming like the rest of the tabloid media. News is becoming news because some office bigwig thinks they'll get ratings for it, not because of its importance. And then they justify continued coverage of the topic because of their own past coverage.

If Ankiel is going to be banned, then it's relevant. Even as a news story in the Dispatch, it has enough relevance for a 60 second mention. However, it should not be a 5 minute lead on SportsCenter, a entire segment on radio, etc.

Sure, I'll agree that the media takes these things and blows them out of proportion.

But this IS an important issue, and if they have to go overboard to draw attention to it, well I'll accept that.

Why? Because there is the larger issue of having a son, nephew, neice, grandson who might play sports and him/her being able to have the best career possible without compromising his/her health.

The guys on the field aren't (or shouldn't be) some freak accidents of nature for us to admire and then throw them on the meat cart when they're done.

flyer85
09-07-2007, 11:58 AM
But this IS an important issuethe real problem for me is that we will never truly know the extent of it and know for sure who cheated and who didn't.

RedsManRick
09-07-2007, 12:37 PM
Oneupper, my opinion is that it is not the responsibility of the media to teach your children/nephew/etc. not to use these sorts of substances. It's not as if they are glamorizing their use if they just tell us what the story is and move on. Furthermore, the point being made is not that these substances are harmful, but that they're breaking the rules.

There absolutely is a place and a role for the media in discussing this issue. But Buster Olney and Fernando Vina are not the ones who should be doing it and SportsCenter is not the vehicle for their surface level commentary and generic outrage.

Matt700wlw
09-07-2007, 12:56 PM
I was going to comment about his impressive comeback story...maybe it's a bit....enhanced...

M2
09-07-2007, 01:14 PM
I've become an advocate of retroactive penalties being assessed for this stuff. Baseball's a sport, not a government. Everyone and their dog knows that HGH goes outside the bounds of fair competition. I don't care if Ankiel's still doing it or when he stopped receiving shipments. He did it. We know it. It was wrong. He should suffer a penalty for it.

Roy Tucker
09-07-2007, 01:21 PM
I'd like to see MLB and the Players Union agree to collecting player blood samples starting now. And when a reliable HGH (or other banned substance) test is developed, retroactively go back test them all.

Maybe the guys career will be over and maybe it won't. If it isn't, he gets whatever the agreed upon punishment is. If his career is over, he gets treated like Rafael Palmeiro.

traderumor
09-07-2007, 01:28 PM
I say the Grand Salami last weekend shouldn't count. Boy, HGH and Bailing Wire Eddie on the mound just isn't fair.

oneupper
09-07-2007, 01:31 PM
Oneupper, my opinion is that it is not the responsibility of the media to teach your children/nephew/etc. not to use these sorts of substances. It's not as if they are glamorizing their use if they just tell us what the story is and move on. Furthermore, the point being made is not that these substances are harmful, but that they're breaking the rules.

There absolutely is a place and a role for the media in discussing this issue. But Buster Olney and Fernando Vina are not the ones who should be doing it and SportsCenter is not the vehicle for their surface level commentary and generic outrage.

Sure, us parents can teach the kids, and when half their teammates/compeitors are using to outperform them, reason will take a backseat to testosterone.
(Heck, has "its bad for me" ever been on my mind when downing a brewksi?).

As for how the message is transmitted, once again...better poorly than NOT. Sportscenter may not be the place, but that's what people watch. Wanna do a Bob Costas special, with a panel of oncologists? Don't expect anyone to tune in.

BTW, I'd like to chime in on the "HGH NOT banned before 2005" issue. NOT TRUE.

As a controlled substance, HGH could only be taken by Ankiel for medical reasons. That's why he had a prescription. If that prescription was false, bought or somehow not given for medical reasons...you have the base for a criminal case against Ankiel, the doctor or BOTH.

bucksfan2
09-07-2007, 01:44 PM
I've become an advocate of retroactive penalties being assessed for this stuff. Baseball's a sport, not a government. Everyone and their dog knows that HGH goes outside the bounds of fair competition. I don't care if Ankiel's still doing it or when he stopped receiving shipments. He did it. We know it. It was wrong. He should suffer a penalty for it.

M2 I have a difficult time deciding what is outside the bounds of fair competition. During the late steroid era the percentage of users could be anywhere from 25-75% of the players in the league. No lets look at the high end, I would argue that the playing field would be level if 75% of the player in the league were using a certain substance. I blame management and ownership for letting this get out of control but that is another well hashed debate.

As for retroactive penalities I disagree with them. I would almost go to the point that MLB knew what was going on and purposely turned their head because they needed the long ball. They needed the sexy side of baseball to come back to put fans in the seats. You can't come down on a certain substance, even if it were illegal, when you never had it on your banned substance list.

As for this story it really is a non issue. The media takes these non issues and runs with them more than ever now. There is way too much coverage now days on non issues that it begins to detract from the sport they are covering. Too many media members break stories on bad sources and bring to light stories that just dont need to be brought into the public. I thought it was an interesting story that Boomer Esisan told about the Waterfront Restaurant. He said during his bengals playing days he was a partial owner of the restaurant yet he and the rest of the bengas were kicked out and not permitted to dine there anymore. No one know that story then except for the few people in involved. In today's media that story would be all over and probably be the lead story on sports center.

mbgrayson
09-07-2007, 02:06 PM
The reason Ankiel's use is such a big sports story is partly just 'timing'.

He has just this past few weeks been splashed all over the sports news as this great comeback story....and now this.

M2
09-07-2007, 02:54 PM
M2 I have a difficult time deciding what is outside the bounds of fair competition. During the late steroid era the percentage of users could be anywhere from 25-75% of the players in the league. No lets look at the high end, I would argue that the playing field would be level if 75% of the player in the league were using a certain substance. I blame management and ownership for letting this get out of control but that is another well hashed debate.

I think the "unfair" part comes from the fact that players who were doing everything right and weren't willing to jeopardize their health for a chemical boost paid a penalty. We'll never know what players and what teams missed out because they weren't willing to take damaging shortcuts. Here's a complete hypothetical: Say 75% of everybody in the majors and minors has been on the juice for the past 15 years and Chad Mottola hasn't. Here's a guy who's been a AAA MVP. He's got 249 HR in the minors and 1,034 RBI. Maybe the Reds picked the right guy back in 1992, but he wasn't willing to pollute his system with steroids and HGH. What if his flaw was integrity? There's no doubt he's a guy that loves the game. You don't play almost 1,800 games in the minors if you don't. What if good character was what stood between Mottola and a long, successful career in the majors? What if intstead of having a big season in Syracuse in 1999, he could have been leading the team to a World Series title?

To me that's the very definition of "unfair competition." The guys who don't turn themselves toxic in order to become chemical supermen are the ones who deserve the glory. Fair competition wouldn't necessitate that you risk heart failure or stroke or cancer to get ahead.


As for retroactive penalities I disagree with them. I would almost go to the point that MLB knew what was going on and purposely turned their head because they needed the long ball. They needed the sexy side of baseball to come back to put fans in the seats. You can't come down on a certain substance, even if it were illegal, when you never had it on your banned substance list.

Why can't you? Since when did you have tell people not to do the wrong the thing? I completely agree the MLB front offices have been complicit in the doping culture, but if you're going to stop it then I think it's perfectly viable to take the position that you didn't need to tell players not to take illegal substances in order to punish them for doing it.


As for this story it really is a non issue. The media takes these non issues and runs with them more than ever now. There is way too much coverage now days on non issues that it begins to detract from the sport they are covering.

Ankiel took (and may still be taking) chemicals designed to give him a leg up on the competition. That's the opposite of a non-story. Dude cheated and the sport should take action.

bucksfan2
09-07-2007, 03:07 PM
Why can't you? Since when did you have tell people not to do the wrong the thing? I completely agree the MLB front offices have been complicit in the doping culture, but if you're going to stop it then I think it's perfectly viable to take the position that you didn't need to tell players not to take illegal substances in order to punish them for doing it.


Here is why I dont think you can. You can't inact a policy and the suspend/fire employees who were in violation of the new policy before it was a policy. For example you can't enact a policy at a company that says you are not alowed to date people under your command. You can't go to a boss and fire him because he had relations with employees in the past.

RedsManRick
09-07-2007, 03:15 PM
As a controlled substance, HGH could only be taken by Ankiel for medical reasons. That's why he had a prescription. If that prescription was false, bought or somehow not given for medical reasons...you have the base for a criminal case against Ankiel, the doctor or BOTH.

Great, so when have some reason to believe that his prescription was not legit, then let's report on that. Let's not sit around playing with ourselves and talking about the news that might happen. I'm not saying that it's a non-story. I'm saying that it's a story that is being blown up for the sake of ratings rather than for the sake of merit. If we get new facts that increase the significance of the story, then report on it accordingly. Ankiel should absolutely suffer the consequences of his actions. But let's not spend so much time that could/should be spent actually covering the sporting events on debating what his actions might have been and what those consequences might someday be.

And I see people all around me who are better at things than I do. I don't need to be told by the media that I shouldn't cheat to be as good as them.

M2
09-07-2007, 04:04 PM
Here is why I dont think you can. You can't inact a policy and the suspend/fire employees who were in violation of the new policy before it was a policy. For example you can't enact a policy at a company that says you are not alowed to date people under your command. You can't go to a boss and fire him because he had relations with employees in the past.

Sure you can. It's conduct deleterious to the sport. Every player's got a character clause and if roiding up to cheat your way past honest players isn't bad character then I don't know what is. You've cheated the game and your fellow players. You've contributed to a culture where young players have to make a choice between health and success. You deserve some serious punishment for that.

WVRedsFan
09-07-2007, 04:11 PM
Funny. the too good to be true story is indeed too good to be true if reports are accurate.

Cheaters exist everywhere and MLB is no exception. My only trouble is when they cheat nothing heppens to them. that's what gets me. The message sent is that it's OK to cheat as long as you don't get puniched. That way you can be a hero and there will always be those that defend you and hold you up.

Chip R
09-07-2007, 04:11 PM
Sure you can. It's conduct deleterious to the sport. Every player's got a character clause and if roiding up to cheat your way past honest players isn't bad character then I don't know what is. You've cheated the game and your fellow players. You've contributed to a culture where young players have to make a choice between health and success. You deserve some serious punishment for that.


I believe the minors has had testing and penalties in place for a few years now - even before MLB did. Even if he didn't test for it, I would think HGH was on that list and if it was, I'll bet Bud's toupee that a good lawyer could find his way around that to suspend Ankiel. I'm sure the MLBPA would pitch a fit but they aren't exactly on the side of the angels on this issue.

oneupper
09-07-2007, 04:21 PM
Great, so when have some reason to believe that his prescription was not legit, then let's report on that. Let's not sit around playing with ourselves and talking about the news that might happen. I'm not saying that it's a non-story. I'm saying that it's a story that is being blown up for the sake of ratings rather than for the sake of merit. If we get new facts that increase the significance of the story, then report on it accordingly. Ankiel should absolutely suffer the consequences of his actions. But let's not spend so much time that could/should be spent actually covering the sporting events on debating what his actions might have been and what those consequences might someday be.

And I see people all around me who are better at things than I do. I don't need to be told by the media that I shouldn't cheat to be as good as them.

Well Ankiel could have Growth Hormone deficiency (doubtful in this 6' 1' athlete) or a variety of other illness for which this is a treatment, like Turner's syndrome, chronic renal failure, Prader-Willi Syndrome, etc....

HGH has been used in AIDS patients and patients with Fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome.

If Ankiel and his doctor can show he got his prescription for one of these or other FDA-approved uses...fine.

But C'mon...who we kidding?

Edskin
09-07-2007, 04:30 PM
I think this is what we all need to do as baseball fans:

Come to grips with the fact that EVERYONE that has played the game in this era is tainted. Everyone.

Did everyone do it? Of course not. But it is painfully obvious that there is an extremely high percentage of players that did, and possibly an even higher percentage of front office people, coaches, managers, and MLB execs that turned a blind eye.

Look at the Reds roster right now-- there is a VERY good chance that some of your favorite players did it too. VERY good chance.

You don't have to become a HULK to be on performance enhancers. I don't think Ankiel looks like a totally different person that he did four years ago-- maybe a little more thick, but nothing that 4 years in the weight room couldn't produce. So, we can't tell strictly by appearance or even by production (Nefi Perez).

Bonds did it, Cansenco did it, Palmiero did it, McGwire did it, Ankiel did it, Glaus did it.......

The list of names we DON'T know could go on for pages.

Even guys like Junior are suspect in my mind simply because of the era in which they excelled. I would be surprised if we found out he did anything, because his body never really changed and neither did his numbers-- but I wouldn't be shocked. Who knows, when a guy loves the game and he sees his body breaking down, perhaps he goes looking for something that could help prolong things? It's a fair question in these times.

IMO, when it comes to performance enhancers and MLB everyone is guilty until proven innocent.

Strikes Out Looking
09-07-2007, 04:31 PM
I believe the minors has had testing and penalties in place for a few years now - even before MLB did. Even if he didn't test for it, I would think HGH was on that list and if it was, I'll bet Bud's toupee that a good lawyer could find his way around that to suspend Ankiel. I'm sure the MLBPA would pitch a fit but they aren't exactly on the side of the angels on this issue.

I believe that HGH can't be tested by urinating in a cup, only by a blood test, which is not done in MLB. I'm not sure about the minor leagues.

Chip R
09-07-2007, 04:38 PM
I believe that HGH can't be tested by urinating in a cup, only by a blood test, which is not done in MLB. I'm not sure about the minor leagues.

Right. But I'm not talking about a positive or negative test. I'm talking about something like what the NFL did with Rodney Harrison. He never tested positive for HGH either but he did get them and he got suspended for 4 games.

RedsManRick
09-07-2007, 04:52 PM
Well Ankiel could have Growth Hormone deficiency (doubtful in this 6' 1' athlete) or a variety of other illness for which this is a treatment, like Turner's syndrome, chronic renal failure, Prader-Willi Syndrome, etc....

HGH has been used in AIDS patients and patients with Fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome.

If Ankiel and his doctor can show he got his prescription for one of these or other FDA-approved uses...fine.

But C'mon...who we kidding?

Again, I'm not disagreeing with you on the specifics of this situation. I'm taking issue with the amount of attention it's being given.

Roy Tucker
09-07-2007, 05:06 PM
Right. But I'm not talking about a positive or negative test. I'm talking about something like what the NFL did with Rodney Harrison. He never tested positive for HGH either but he did get them and he got suspended for 4 games.

The MLB players union is very strong while the NFLPA is barely above the patsy level.

If Bud tried to suspend Ankiel "just because" like Goodell did to Harrison, the union would scream bloody murder.

cincinnati chili
09-07-2007, 05:22 PM
I've become an advocate of retroactive penalties being assessed for this stuff. Baseball's a sport, not a government. Everyone and their dog knows that HGH goes outside the bounds of fair competition. I don't care if Ankiel's still doing it or when he stopped receiving shipments. He did it. We know it. It was wrong. He should suffer a penalty for it.

Do you feel the same way about Andro? (which was legal when McGwire, Bichette, various others took it).

Where do you draw the line?

I'm pretty sure that inducing a doctor to give you a phony 'scription is illegal, and I'm also pretty sure that the CBA allows the league to discipline players for violations of law. They just can't get away with giving him 50 days unless it's an offense as severe as Michael Vick.

M2
09-07-2007, 05:26 PM
The MLB players union is very strong while the NFLPA is barely above the patsy level.

If Bud tried to suspend Ankiel "just because" like Goodell did to Harrison, the union would scream bloody murder.

Let 'em scream. I'm generally pro-union when it comes to baseball matters, but the MLBPA needs to realize it can't win this one if the league decides to bring down the hammer. The union can make sure no players are falsely punished. Yet the players need to join with the league on this one. The cheaters need to be punished. The players need to signal that it's unacceptable to the rank and file as well as the brass.

This isn't going away and the chilling effect of a doping spector could be massive. If the perception is that you need to dope to make it in baseball then parents are going to steer their kids elsewhere.

M2
09-07-2007, 05:50 PM
Do you feel the same way about Andro? (which was legal when McGwire, Bichette, various others took it).

Where do you draw the line?

I'm pretty sure that inducing a doctor to give you a phony 'scription is illegal, and I'm also pretty sure that the CBA allows the league to discipline players for violations of law. They just can't get away with giving him 50 days unless it's an offense as severe as Michael Vick.

Andro was an over-the-counter supplement when players used it, not that all over-the-counter substances are good for you, just that you can't necessarily blame players for taking it. Getting a phony script to juice up with HGH is another thing altogether. It's so far over the line that you don't really have to worry about the line.

My guess is the real drag on MLB coming down hard on players in these circumstances is Bud Selig's complicity in the problem. It's the one hammer the MLBPA has on this issue, that the Steroids Commissioner ought not to throw stones from his glass house. If someone who wasn't part of the wink-and-a-nod reaction from the league office to the widespread doping among the players replaces Selig then I'm guessing the severity of the penalties, the scope of the infractions and the rapidity of the judgment all have room for expansion.

OnBaseMachine
09-07-2007, 07:06 PM
What a damn shame. The Cardinals are most likely going to reach the playoffs because of this cheating piece of crap. I remember a couple years ago when Pujols was also rumored to be linked to HGH. You can just look at him and tell he's on the stuff.

GAC
09-08-2007, 08:58 AM
Boy you really have a hangup (or obsession) with the Cards don't you? ;)

I mean don't you think it's kind of overboard to call him a cheating piece of crap?

OnBaseMachine
09-08-2007, 09:56 AM
We have Reds fans on here who refer to some of our players as crap, so no, I don't really see a problem with calling a cheater a piece of crap. ;)

Yachtzee
09-08-2007, 05:40 PM
Let 'em scream. I'm generally pro-union when it comes to baseball matters, but the MLBPA needs to realize it can't win this one if the league decides to bring down the hammer. The union can make sure no players are falsely punished. Yet the players need to join with the league on this one. The cheaters need to be punished. The players need to signal that it's unacceptable to the rank and file as well as the brass.

This isn't going away and the chilling effect of a doping spector could be massive. If the perception is that you need to dope to make it in baseball then parents are going to steer their kids elsewhere.

I agree. If MLB is going to get past the steroid problem, it's going to take the MLBPA getting off it's "high horse" about "privacy" and working either with the league or on its own to get performance enhancing drugs out of the game. It's probably going to have to involve publicisizing/punishing some big name players who have been involved. It's not about records, it's about the health of young players getting into the game. They shouldn't feel they have to use performance enhancers to keep up with the big boys. Some may do it anyway, but there should be a clear message that you're risking your career if you do.

fearofpopvol1
09-08-2007, 05:49 PM
Did anyone watch the press footage with Jockety and Ankiel? I know the media looks to stir the garbage, but something about the way he was answering the questions rubbed me the wrong way. He just didn't come off as very believable to me.

RBA
09-08-2007, 11:50 PM
Did anyone watch the press footage with Jockety and Ankiel? I know the media looks to stir the garbage, but something about the way he was answering the questions rubbed me the wrong way. He just didn't come off as very believable to me.

I was reading the Cardinals forum and they were falling for their act. The Cardinals can't do no wrong in their eyes.