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Matt700wlw
09-07-2007, 07:12 PM
According to Nuxhall, Victor Santos has been traded to the Orioles for cash.

I have not seen anything official as of yet

redsfan4445
09-07-2007, 07:17 PM
trent has it on his blog Matt

Matt700wlw
09-07-2007, 07:18 PM
trent has it on his blog Matt

Cool!

BoydsOfSummer
09-07-2007, 07:32 PM
They couldn't get Markakis for him?

Tom Servo
09-07-2007, 07:41 PM
The Victor Santos era has come to an end in Cincinnati, but redsupport will always remember his spring training.

jojo
09-07-2007, 07:57 PM
This is even less shocking than discovering that a professional wrestler took steroids and had brain damage. It was easily predictable even after his spring training.

MrCinatit
09-07-2007, 08:01 PM
I'm just trying to figure out what Baltimore thinks they can do with Santos. Have they been hit by pitching injuries?
I know their pitching is downright terrible - but you don't turn to Victor Santos for an upgrade...do you?

mbgrayson
09-07-2007, 08:07 PM
Santos is absolutely no loss. I can't beleive that Baltimore wants our 15 or 16th best pitcher....ouch.

KronoRed
09-07-2007, 09:27 PM
Pile O Cash..solid :D

RedFanAlways1966
09-07-2007, 09:33 PM
I guess when you give up 30 in a game, you are willing to try anything. Best of luck to Victor Santos.

cincrazy
09-08-2007, 12:11 AM
I'm just trying to figure out what Baltimore thinks they can do with Santos. Have they been hit by pitching injuries?
I know their pitching is downright terrible - but you don't turn to Victor Santos for an upgrade...do you?

In the O's bullpen, YES, he's an absolute upgrade. That's why their bullpen is historically bad :)

blumj
09-08-2007, 12:36 AM
I'm just trying to figure out what Baltimore thinks they can do with Santos. Have they been hit by pitching injuries?
I know their pitching is downright terrible - but you don't turn to Victor Santos for an upgrade...do you?
They just need anyone who can give them some innings. Their starters are all getting knocked out of the game after 2-4 innings almost every day.

camisadelgolf
09-08-2007, 06:40 AM
Put up another one in the win column for Wayne Krivsky. It's another great trade. Here's a subjective view at Krivsky's trading history:

GOOD

GONE TEAM RECEIVED
Jason LaRue Royals PTBNL/cash
cash

Chad Moeller Dodgers cash

Javon Moran Phillies Jeff Conine
Brad Key

Jeff Conine Mets Jose Castro
Sean Henry

Victor Santos Orioles cash

Russ Haltiwanger Royals Jeff Keppinger

Carlos Piste Marlins Ryan Jorgensen

Brian Shackelford Devil Rays Jorge Cantu
Calvin Medlock Shaun Cumberland
cash

cash Cubs Josh Hamilton

Timo Perez Cardinals cash

Wily Mo Pena Red Sox Bronson Arroyo
cash

Bobby Basham Padres David Ross

Jeff Stevens Indians Brandon Phillips

Ben Kozlowski Dodgers Cody Ross

Cody Ross Marlins cash

Dave Williams Mets Robert Manuel
cash

Kyle Edens Angels Esteban Yan
cash

Travis Chick Mariners Eddie Guardado
cash

Austin Kearns Nationals Gary Majewski
Felipe Lopez Bill Bray
Ryan Wagner Royce Clayton
Brendan Harris
Daryl Thompson

Zach Ward Twins Kyle Lohse

Kyle Lohse Phillies Matt Maloney

Zac Stott Phillies Ryan Franklin
cash

cash Indians Todd Hollandsworth

Trevor Lawhorn Blue Jays Scott Schoeneweis
cash

Mike Burns Red Sox Tim Bausher
cash

future considerations Rockies Sun-Woo Kim
cash

BAD

GONE TEAM RECEIVED
Brendan Harris Devil Rays cash

Julio Manon Athletics Kirk Saarloos
David Shafer Dan Denham

Brandon Roberts Twins Juan Castro

Justin Germano Phillies Rheal Cormier

WASH/TBD

GONE TEAM RECEIVED
future considerations Rockies Gabriel Suarez

Jon George Rockies future considerations

PTBNL Cubs Buck Coats

Chris Denorfia Athletics Marcus McBeth
Ben Jukich

Abe Woody Diamondbacks Jerry Gil

His record, in my opinion: 26-4-5

mth123
09-08-2007, 06:52 AM
Put up another one in the win column for Wayne Krivsky. It's another great trade.

Yeah, I'm sure the huge windfall will alter the path of the franchise.

I do agree that getting anything for a guy whose season was over and basically was done in the organization is a nice salvage value move. But Great Trade???????

Ron Madden
09-08-2007, 06:55 AM
Yeah, I'm sure the huge windfall will alter the path of the franchise.

I do agree that getting anything for a guy whose season was over and basically was done in the organization is a nice salvage value move. But Great Trade???????

I quess after "The Trade" anything looks pretty good. ;)

Heath
09-08-2007, 08:31 AM
I think Krivsky got took. Rumor has it that the Orioles mixed in a couple of "community chest" cards in with money that looks like this.

http://insydout.com/wp-content/photos/treasurechest.gif

camisadelgolf
09-08-2007, 08:48 AM
Yeah, I'm sure the huge windfall will alter the path of the franchise.

I do agree that getting anything for a guy whose season was over and basically was done in the organization is a nice salvage value move. But Great Trade???????

Okay, your point is taken. But I mean 'great trade' as in the Victor Santos acquisition was handle perfectly.

puca
09-08-2007, 09:06 AM
Okay, your point is taken. But I mean 'great trade' as in the Victor Santos acquisition was handle perfectly.

Well except for the fact that Victor Sanchez shouldn't have been signed in the first place.

Highlifeman21
09-08-2007, 10:20 AM
Pile O Cash..solid :D

Pile O Cash takes up at least 7 roster spots on our 40 man.

By my count, 3 of them (Harang, Dunn, Griffey) are positive contributors.

The other at least 4, well.... you know their story...

flyer85
09-08-2007, 10:24 AM
supposedly the Reds had to pay 100K to get the Orioles to take him :D

SteelSD
09-08-2007, 10:41 AM
Well except for the fact that Victor Santos shouldn't have been signed in the first place.

Of course. Although now it appears we're looking at a world where it's apparently a "win" to trade anything for the likes of Ryans Franklin and Jorgensen, Esteban Yan, Todd Hollandsworth, and Sun-Woo Kim. Dumping a promising Cody Ross for pile-o-cash in order to keep Quinton McCracken on the roster was another solid move I guess.

When those are being counted as good moves, I'd suggest the bar is set low enough to allow for a Wayne Krivsky sneeze to count as a step in the right direction for the Reds.

cincinnati chili
09-08-2007, 11:34 AM
Put up another one in the win column for Wayne Krivsky. It's another great trade. Here's a subjective view at Krivsky's trading history:

GOOD

GONE TEAM RECEIVED
Jason LaRue Royals PTBNL/cash
cash

Chad Moeller Dodgers cash

Javon Moran Phillies Jeff Conine
Brad Key

Jeff Conine Mets Jose Castro
Sean Henry

Victor Santos Orioles cash

Russ Haltiwanger Royals Jeff Keppinger

Carlos Piste Marlins Ryan Jorgensen

Brian Shackelford Devil Rays Jorge Cantu
Calvin Medlock Shaun Cumberland
cash

cash Cubs Josh Hamilton

Timo Perez Cardinals cash

Wily Mo Pena Red Sox Bronson Arroyo
cash

Bobby Basham Padres David Ross

Jeff Stevens Indians Brandon Phillips

Ben Kozlowski Dodgers Cody Ross

Cody Ross Marlins cash

Dave Williams Mets Robert Manuel
cash

Kyle Edens Angels Esteban Yan
cash

Travis Chick Mariners Eddie Guardado
cash

Austin Kearns Nationals Gary Majewski
Felipe Lopez Bill Bray
Ryan Wagner Royce Clayton
Brendan Harris
Daryl Thompson

Zach Ward Twins Kyle Lohse

Kyle Lohse Phillies Matt Maloney

Zac Stott Phillies Ryan Franklin
cash

cash Indians Todd Hollandsworth

Trevor Lawhorn Blue Jays Scott Schoeneweis
cash

Mike Burns Red Sox Tim Bausher
cash

future considerations Rockies Sun-Woo Kim
cash

BAD

GONE TEAM RECEIVED
Brendan Harris Devil Rays cash

Julio Manon Athletics Kirk Saarloos
David Shafer Dan Denham

Brandon Roberts Twins Juan Castro

Justin Germano Phillies Rheal Cormier

WASH/TBD

GONE TEAM RECEIVED
future considerations Rockies Gabriel Suarez

Jon George Rockies future considerations

PTBNL Cubs Buck Coats

Chris Denorfia Athletics Marcus McBeth
Ben Jukich

Abe Woody Diamondbacks Jerry Gil

His record, in my opinion: 26-4-5

Okay, so are you Wayne's cousin or his mom?

Nobody back here on planet reality would put ANY portion of the Lopez/Kearns trade in the "good column," except perhaps Brendan Harris whom he promptly let go.

Unassisted
09-08-2007, 02:49 PM
Okay, so are you Wayne's cousin or his mom?

Nobody back here on planet reality would put ANY portion of the Lopez/Kearns trade in the "good column," except perhaps Brendan Harris whom he promptly let go.

I do. Overpaying Lopez and Kearns to underproduce would have been a bad thing for the 2007 Reds to be doing. Not doing that has value. Bill Bray still has value. I believe the Reds received a better value than they would have by not making the trade.

Besides, camisadegolf admitted when posting the list that it was a "subjective list." That means YMMV. ;)

mth123
09-08-2007, 03:22 PM
I do. Overpaying Lopez and Kearns to underproduce would have been a bad thing for the 2007 Reds to be doing. Not doing that has value. Bill Bray still has value. I believe the Reds received a better value than they would have by not making the trade.

Besides, camisadegolf admitted when posting the list that it was a "subjective list." That means YMMV. ;)

It all depends on whether you think the Reds could have gotten a better return by making a different deal. I don't think many are advocating that the Reds should have kept Kearns and Lopez.

I subscribe to M2's theory that if Pena netted Arroyo and Guillen netted Harang, then Kearns and Lopez either together or separately should have netted better.

cincinnati chili
09-08-2007, 03:33 PM
It all depends on whether you think the Reds could have gotten a better return by making a different deal. I don't think many are advocating that the Reds should have kept Kearns and Lopez.

I subscribe to M2's theory that if Pena netted Arroyo and Guillen netted Harang, then Kearns and Lopez either together or separately should have netted better.

This is exactly right, assuming you think that Kearns and Lopez were overpaid in the first place. Even if you do, they had value that exceeded a bunch of injured guys and Brendan Harris.

PuffyPig
09-08-2007, 03:35 PM
I subscribe to M2's theory that if Pena netted Arroyo and Guillen netted Harang, then Kearns and Lopez either together or separately should have netted better.

The value of Arroyo and Harang increased greatly from the time of their trade.

Most posters panned the Harang trade, claiming that Harang was
at best a #5 starter.

At the time of their respective trades, Bray had more trade value than Harang IMO.

mth123
09-08-2007, 03:49 PM
The value of Arroyo and Harang increased greatly from the time of their trade.

Most posters panned the Harang trade, claiming that Harang was
at best a #5 starter.

At the time of their respective trades, Bray had more trade value than Harang IMO.

Agree that both worked out better than expected. But the reason they had the chance is because they weren't limited to middle relief ceilings in the first place.

I actually think Bray will be an asset for a few years while he's cheap. But it isn't enough return for both guys. Maybe if Majewski can be flipped for something with more ceiling that could help down the road it could turn out ok.

I actually think that the huge miscalculation was thinking that Clayton was going to transform the defense. I really believe that this was a major factor in the deal. If WK had done his homework he might have simply dealt one of them for Bray and a couple youngsters maybe Thompson and Harris or possibly others. Based on his PT last September and his quick banishment to Tampa Bay, it was obvious that WK really placed no value on Harris.

Unassisted
09-08-2007, 03:50 PM
It all depends on whether you think the Reds could have gotten a better return by making a different deal. I don't think many are advocating that the Reds should have kept Kearns and Lopez.

I subscribe to M2's theory that if Pena netted Arroyo and Guillen netted Harang, then Kearns and Lopez either together or separately should have netted better.

That's an opportunity cost that we will probably never truly know. Or at least we won't know it unless some GMs from this decade start writing tell-all books about trades that didn't happen.

I don't think it's fair to Monday-morning quarterback that deal based on conjecture about opportunity cost. Using what amounts to an imaginary measuring stick, no deal will ever be good enough.

I like the Kearns/Lopez deal based on what I know to be true.

Patrick Bateman
09-08-2007, 05:39 PM
Put up another one in the win column for Wayne Krivsky. It's another great trade. Here's a subjective view at Krivsky's trading history:



This move should go under the category as absolutely meaningless. The Orioles needed anyone and the Reds basically gave Santos to them for nothing. The point of the trade was to allow Santos to have an opportunity that Baltimore wanted to give him. It had nothing to do with actually helping the Reds.

redsmetz
09-08-2007, 05:49 PM
This move should go under the category as absolutely meaningless. The Orioles needed anyone and the Reds basically gave Santos to them for nothing. The point of the trade was to allow Santos to have an opportunity that Baltimore wanted to give him. It had nothing to do with actually helping the Reds.

Getting cash back on a player who was set to be given his walking papers in a few weeks is a plus, regardless of how insignificant the money was (and I'm guessing it was a least the waiver amount). It all helps ultimately.

Patrick Bateman
09-08-2007, 05:51 PM
Getting cash back on a player who was set to be given his walking papers in a few weeks is a plus, regardless of how insignificant the money was (and I'm guessing it was a least the waiver amount). It all helps ultimately.

It's meaningless. The Reds are never going to have so little money that they won't bother making waiver claims and such.

Getting extra money doesn't hurt, but in the grand scheme of things it means nothing. The money received isn't going to make a difference in the talent of the organization.

camisadelgolf
09-09-2007, 01:31 PM
It was a trade that helped the team very little. However, when Santos was signed, he wasn't expected to make the team. Not only did he make the team, but he pitched some solid innings as a cheap mop-up pitcher, and he managed to be traded for a little cash. I like every aspect of the acquisition.

Many of the trades I placed in the 'Good' category can be placed in 'Wash', and even less of them can reasonably be named as 'Bad'. However, as it was pointed out, the key word was 'subjective'.