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View Full Version : Edwin Encarnacion's defense



mbgrayson
09-09-2007, 03:58 PM
Again today, Edwin made sevral strong defensive plays. His errors are way down, and it seems subjectively like he is now a defensive strength.

However, when I went to The Hardball Times fielding stats for 3rd basemen (http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=fielding&linesToDisplay=50&orderBy=zone_rating&direction=DESC&qual_filter=1&season_filter%5B%5D=2007&league_filter%5B%5D=2&pos_filter%5B%5D=5&Submit=Submit), I was surprised.

Edwin is next to last among NL 3rd basemen in RZR. He only gets to .601 of the balls in his zone. He also has 33 balls out of zone, whcih is below average. He is up to 5th in fielding percentage, so he is at least making the easy plays...

His bat has also improved. I think he will turn out to be a decent 3rd baseman, with less power than we hoped.

Patrick Bateman
09-09-2007, 04:00 PM
He was awful at the beginning of the season, and since his demotion he has made big time strides. I think especially over the last month EE has been very good.

So as of today, he's probably better than that ranking. EE needs to prove that he can continue doing this over the course of a full season, but at this point, I no longer consider him a liability out there.

RedsManRick
09-09-2007, 04:12 PM
It would be interesting if we could get those stats since the ASB.

icehole3
09-09-2007, 04:22 PM
To his credit he has raised his game, Im back in the keep Ed E camp.

fearofpopvol1
09-09-2007, 06:34 PM
Yeah, I agree. I'm thinking the pretty attrocious first half had a lot of bearing on those stats. He's made great strides both offensively and defensively. I've been very impressed.

paintmered
09-09-2007, 06:39 PM
I thought range was EE's best defensive attribute. Why the reason for such a low rating?

TOBTTReds
09-09-2007, 06:52 PM
Yeah, I agree. I'm thinking the pretty attrocious first half had a lot of bearing on those stats. He's made great strides both offensively and defensively. I've been very impressed.

I feel like he is the exact same 3B, he just doesn't mess up the easy one's now. Last year he was making the same ridiculous plays.

Superdude
09-09-2007, 10:20 PM
That's surprising. It takes a pretty large sample for defensive stats to be totally reliable, but I figured once EdE's errors went down, he'd be a well above average 3rd basemen. Defense is tricky like that.

SteelSD
09-09-2007, 10:45 PM
I thought range was EE's best defensive attribute. Why the reason for such a low rating?

Because the Hardball Times' RZR is a bastardized version of actual Zone Rating; produced by folks who use bad data and who don't actually understand how Zone Rating is calculated.

mbgrayson
09-09-2007, 11:11 PM
Because the Hardball Times' RZR is a bastardized version of actual Zone Rating; produced by folks who use bad data and who don't actually understand how Zone Rating is calculated.

Here is what JinAZ said in a post on his blog on 8/7/07, On Baseball and the Reds (http://jinaz-reds.blogspot.com/):
"After UZR rated Eddie Encarnacion as well above average (http://jinaz-reds.blogspot.com/2007/07/junejuly-uzr-splits-check-out-eddie.html) in June and early July, I'd hoped that he might have turned the corner. Despite the fact that these data overlap with those UZR data in time frame, however, they show Eddie having missed nearly 6 plays that an average third baseman would make in just a month's time. Given his struggles with the bat, this is disappointing--the reality is that Eddie may have hurt the Reds more than any other player last month. I will note, however, that we could also be seeing some differences between UZR and the Hardball Times' RZR... We'll see what UZR says next time MGL releases those data."

Back in April of 2006, JinAZ said this about EE's fielding (http://jinaz-reds.blogspot.com/2006/04/better-know-red-6-edwin-encarnacion.html):
"Fielding:The universal consensus these measures of fielding (albeit based on a limited sample size) is that Encarnacion is a plus fielder over at 3B. The kid does make a fair number of throwing errors, but he more than makes up for this with very good range. According to the Fielding Bible, his best performance was moving to his right (toward the line), while he still made an average number of plays to his left. He did struggle fielding bunts last year, but if his Chipper Jones (http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jonesch06.shtml)-esque play on Juan Pierre (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/juan-pierre.shtml)'s attempted bunt single in the fifth inning of opening day is any indication, he may be improving in that aspect of his game. Indeed, Clay Davenport's numbers indicate that EdE made a big leap in his overall fielding performance last year. And at only 23 years old, there's every reason to think he will continue to improve. I think he could become a legitimate gold glove candidate a few years from now."

Also, I would note that ESPN also has Edwin's fielding stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=5904&context=fielding)on their player pages. They rate Edwin much higher: he has a .777 Zone Rating this year, compared to .741 in 2006, and .794 in 2005.

It is also interesting to look at 'fielding percentage', that now out of favor stat:
EE at 3rd base fielding percentages:
2005 .944
2006 .916
2007 .959

mbgrayson
09-09-2007, 11:24 PM
Playing around with the MLB.COM site, You can see a graph that shows fielding percentage month by month. It looks to me like EE's fielding percentage was about .915 this May when he was sent to the minors. To bring it up to .959 from .915 in May is quite amazing.

The link to the chart, which compares EE and 4 other NL third basemen is HERE. (http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?teamPosCode=5&statType=3&compare.x=25&section3=null&timeFrame=1&c_id=cin&readBoxes=true&sitSplit=&venueID=&statSet3=null&prevPage3=1&compare.y=5&subScope=pos&baseballScope=NL&timeSubFrame=2007&box1=XXXX425548col5&box2=XXXX408234flo5&box3=XXXX431151nyn5&box4=XXXX429665cin5&box5=XXXX475582was5&compare.x=&sortByStat=FPCT&)

fearofpopvol1
09-10-2007, 12:44 AM
I feel like he is the exact same 3B, he just doesn't mess up the easy one's now. Last year he was making the same ridiculous plays.

It really comes down to his throwing. Last season, his throwing was wild and as a result, there were a lot of errors.