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View Full Version : Let's re-sign Kyle Lohse in the off-season



AmarilloRed
09-09-2007, 11:07 PM
I know I am going to be killed for even suggesting this, but it may be a good idea. Kyle Lohse is 8-12 in 28 starts, has pitched 169 1/3 IP, 179 hits, 48 walks, 105 strikeouts with a 4.46 ERA. He has only allowed 84 ER in 28 starts. That is 3 ER and 6 innings a start. I would take that over Ramirez, Dumatrait, Livingston , Shearn, or any other FA pitcher we might get in the off-season. He was open to an extension earlier, and I would imagine he would not be interested after the Reds traded him.Still, I would like to see if something could be done. I was one of the loudest voices calling for him to be traded, but he looks pretty good in retrospect. I know he was wildly inconsistant, but it may be something to look into in the off-season.

Degenerate39
09-09-2007, 11:10 PM
I like Lohse but I'm sure he'll be too much money this offseason.

GoReds33
09-09-2007, 11:33 PM
I like Lohse but I'm sure he'll be too much money this offseason.
Thats why we got rid of him in the first place.:)

rotnoid
09-09-2007, 11:35 PM
Thats why we got rid of him in the first place.:)

And the return seems to be decent so far. The problem is that he's likely to be the best arm available in FA this offseason. I want no part of a bidding war for the likes of Kyle Lohse.

nmculbreth
09-09-2007, 11:45 PM
I'd be fine with bringing Lohse back if he's willing to sign a one year deal at a reasonable salary. With that being said I'd be willing to venture that some team will make him a Meche-like offer and I hope that the Reds are not that team.

Given the quality (or lack thereof) available this off season, I think the best move the Reds can make is no move at all. There are a number of really good starters who will be free agents after next season, it would be a shame to waste our limited resources on guys like Carlos Silva.

AmarilloRed
09-09-2007, 11:52 PM
Unfortunately, we are in the position that we need to sign a FA SP this off-season. We did not do it last off-season, and we see the result. We will need to acquire at least 1 and possibly 2 starters in the off-season by free agency or in a trade.

nmculbreth
09-10-2007, 12:00 AM
Unfortunately, we are in the position that we need to sign a FA SP this off-season. We did not do it last off-season, and we see the result. We will need to acquire at least 1 and possibly 2 starters in the off-season by free agency or in a trade.

I'd rather suffer through a 100 loss season than sign guys like Kyle Lohse or Carlos Silva to Miltonesque contracts.

kaldaniels
09-10-2007, 01:00 AM
Unfortunately, we are in the position that we need to sign a FA SP this off-season. We did not do it last off-season, and we see the result. We will need to acquire at least 1 and possibly 2 starters in the off-season by free agency or in a trade.

I would say 30 teams have the need to sign a FA SP this off season. Not as bad as the Reds, but everyone wants to upgrade SP. That said, if Kyle has the best arm...it will cost a pretty penny.

Amarillo, I realize you like to start a debate...but being in favor of resigning Loshe (at the price he will command) does not make sense for the Reds.

AmarilloRed
09-10-2007, 02:16 AM
Any quality starting pitcher (and I suppose it is debatable whether we can consider Lohse quality) will cost something on the open market. Whether we decide to pick up Lohse, Silva, any other FA SP, or a starter acquired in a trade, we can expect to pay for it. It is imperative that we upgrade our starting pitching in the off-season. I am in favor of signing FA starters to short deals to make up the gaps between the time between now and the time we can really expect Bailey and Cueto to help the team. I believe both Bailey and Cueto have considerable work to do on their off-speed stuff. If we could get Lohse at 5-6 million for a couple of years, I would be interested. He may not be as expensive as you think. I will concede that I do like to start debates.:D

tripleaaaron
09-10-2007, 02:27 AM
While Lohse may be the best arm available, and god knows we need better arms. He is not the #2 we are looking for, he is not a #2 at all. We all saw that, our only option is through a trade. As everyone has mentioned he will cost way too much in such a thin market, why give #2 type money for a #3/4 pitcher?

AmarilloRed
09-10-2007, 02:35 AM
Who said we were looking for a #2? Harang is a #1, and Arroyo works as a#2. Belisle will serve as our #5 until something better comes along. We need a #3 and #4 in the off-season, and Lohse or another FA will serve us in that capacity.

muethibp
09-10-2007, 10:42 AM
The rotation was so much better when Kyle Lohse was a part of it. He is a legitimate major league arm that eats innings and gives you some fantastic outings. I would have absolutely no problem seeing him in a Reds uniform again (if payroll was bumped to a point where Lohse was not demanding a disproportionate amount of it).

No way he signs for 1 year when he will be in high demand but a 2 or 3 year deal at reasonable dollars, I would be fine with it.

HokieRed
09-10-2007, 10:51 AM
Kyle Lohse: about 40 million for 4. Without him or a similar signee, we don't contend in 2008. With him or a similar guy, there's a faint chance.
Starts to make Justin Germano at about 400K look pretty attractive. That's why Krivsky's giving him away for nothing is as big as it is.

scounts22
09-10-2007, 11:30 AM
I'm sorry, WHAT?!?!?!:confused::confused::confused::help::doh ::explode::shocked::dunno::runaway::yikes:::eek:

jimbo
09-10-2007, 01:35 PM
Unfortunately, we are in the position that we need to sign a FA SP this off-season. We did not do it last off-season, and we see the result. We will need to acquire at least 1 and possibly 2 starters in the off-season by free agency or in a trade.

Yes, the Reds are in that position, but Lohse is most definitely not the answer. He will bring way too much money and too long of a commitment.......which in my opinion he is not worth either. There will be other options that will be much more viable for a team like the Reds.

Kyle Lohse does not even warrant a consideration.

jimbo
09-10-2007, 01:43 PM
Starts to make Justin Germano at about 400K look pretty attractive. That's why Krivsky's giving him away for nothing is as big as it is.

I think league minimum is too much for Germano. The guy hasn't made it out of the 6th inning since July 15th and has only done it 3 times all season. He gave up 5 runs in 3 innings in his last start and his WHIP for the last month is a nice 1.60.

I wouldn't be surprised if the guy isn't even on a major league roster next season.

Z-Fly
09-10-2007, 01:48 PM
I am pretty sure he already said that he didn't like playing for the reds. So why would he come here on the cheap?

AmarilloRed
09-10-2007, 02:02 PM
I am pretty sure he already said that he didn't like playing for the reds. So why would he come here on the cheap?

If you are talking about Kyle Lohse; he had previously said he was an open to an extension. If he said that after he was traded, I will concede that might close this possibility.

Hey Meat
09-10-2007, 02:17 PM
I know I am going to be killed for even suggesting this, but it may be a good idea. Kyle Lohse is 8-12 in 28 starts, has pitched 169 1/3 IP, 179 hits, 48 walks, 105 strikeouts with a 4.46 ERA. He has only allowed 84 ER in 28 starts. That is 3 ER and 6 innings a start. I would take that over Ramirez, Dumatrait, Livingston , Shearn, or any other FA pitcher we might get in the off-season. He was open to an extension earlier, and I would imagine he would not be interested after the Reds traded him.Still, I would like to see if something could be done. I was one of the loudest voices calling for him to be traded, but he looks pretty good in retrospect. I know he was wildly inconsistant, but it may be something to look into in the off-season.
Yeah and lets resign Milton too.

AmarilloRed
09-10-2007, 02:22 PM
Lohse has a 4.46 ERA and has pitched 169 1/3 IP. He has started 28 games and averaged 6 IP and 3 ER a start. He does not deserve to be compared to Eric Milton. I realize he is inconsistant, but the SP FA market is weak.

tripleaaaron
09-10-2007, 02:28 PM
Who said we were looking for a #2? Harang is a #1, and Arroyo works as a#2. Belisle will serve as our #5 until something better comes along. We need a #3 and #4 in the off-season, and Lohse or another FA will serve us in that capacity.

Arroyo is a #3, not a #2. Yeah he is solid there as he is our only option. And while Lohse will be an upgrade you missed the point of my post in its entirity, you only drew from it what you wanted. WE DO NEED A #2 type guy, WE DONT NEED A #3 that commands #2/1 TYPE MONEY, THAT WOULD BE A WASTE OF RESOURCES, IF WE WERE ONLY 1 STARTER AWAY FROM CONTENDING I MAY AGREE WITH YOU, BUT WE NEED TO MAXIMIZE EVERY DOLLAR TO ADDRESS SEVERAL PROBLEM AREAS. There, maybe you can read caps.

AmarilloRed
09-10-2007, 02:34 PM
Arroyo will serve as a #2 until Bailey or Cueto are ready. We do need 2 more starters, and who ever said Lohse would command #2 or #1 type money. He will command #3 or #4 type money as he should, and using caps is unneccessary to make your point if you make a good point.

muethibp
09-10-2007, 03:09 PM
Yeah and lets resign Milton too.

The difference between the two is night and day.

HokieRed
09-10-2007, 03:52 PM
I'm not in favor of signing Lohse but I doubt we'll get anything better. That's the reality of having so little ready out of the minor leagues as the Reds have had in recent years. We're getting close to being over that, thanks largely to Dan O'Brien. I hope the Reds decide to save the money, hang on with EZ and Shearn until Homer, Cueto, Maloney, Fisher are ready.

HokieRed
09-10-2007, 03:59 PM
Germano, by the way, did get hit hard by the Rockies the last time out, but his two starts before that looked like this: Vs. Dodgers, 6 IP/1 R/ 3W/5k; Vs D'Backs, 6/7hits/3R/3W's/5k.
1 run in 6; 3 in 6. You mean to tell me that a team that gives Phil Dumatrait 6 starts could not use a pitcher with lines like that?

AmarilloRed
09-10-2007, 03:59 PM
Z-Fly, you mentioned that Lohse didn't like playing for the Reds. If that is true, I am sure that is news that will close this debate. Please elaborate on where you heard this.

jimbo
09-10-2007, 04:28 PM
Germano, by the way, did get hit hard by the Rockies the last time out, but his two starts before that looked like this: Vs. Dodgers, 6 IP/1 R/ 3W/5k; Vs D'Backs, 6/7hits/3R/3W's/5k.
1 run in 6; 3 in 6. You mean to tell me that a team that gives Phil Dumatrait 6 starts could not use a pitcher with lines like that?

His WHIP for the last month is 1.60. In those two starts you mentioned, Germano is average 98 pitches is 6 IP. Those two facts tell me he is allowing a lot of batters to reach base. So yeah, he may have had a start where he only gave up 1 run in 6 innings, but the numbers say he was struggling. The mere fact that he is only averaging a little over 5.1 innings a start, in 22 starts, says it all.

I can admit that Germano could be useful at this point as a stopgap, but what does it really matter? You know what you have with Germano, I would rather pitch a youngster who you are trying to evaluate for the future. Even though Dumatrait has gotten hammered, that's exactly why he was pitching and I'm ok with that.

thatcoolguy_22
09-10-2007, 04:31 PM
Kyle Lohse: about 40 million for 4. Without him or a similar signee, we don't contend in 2008. With him or a similar guy, there's a faint chance.
Starts to make Justin Germano at about 400K look pretty attractive. That's why Krivsky's giving him away for nothing is as big as it is.

Justin Germano = Phil Dumatrait

except in a ballpark that rivals yellowstone in its ridiculous size

HokieRed
09-10-2007, 07:16 PM
If you break down Germano's record at home and on the road, it doesn't suggest that his success is due just to Petco. People making evaluations like Dumatrait=Germano have put the Reds where they are (and maybe also San Diego where it is).

SMcGavin
09-10-2007, 09:44 PM
Yes, the Reds are in that position, but Lohse is most definitely not the answer. He will bring way too much money and too long of a commitment.......which in my opinion he is not worth either. There will be other options that will be much more viable for a team like the Reds.

Kyle Lohse does not even warrant a consideration.

Just curious, who are the other options? For the record I want no part of Lohse at $10M a year either, but unfortunately I don't see many other options on the market. We're gonna have to part with some hitting if we want to upgrade the rotation. And I have been outspoken about this in the past, I would love to get some guys of Lohse's ability. Just not at $10M.

kaldaniels
09-10-2007, 09:58 PM
Free agency is not the way to go for starting pitching this off season. Period. If a good trade deal arises....great. If a severely undervalued FA gem comes up...absolutely. But you just don't spend on a poor/unjustified return just because its the offseason and you have some cash to blow. With the Red's payroll...if they don't get a good return on the dollars spent...it hurts the organization in the long run. You want a quick upgrade sure, sign Kyle for 8-10 million. You want to do it the right way from here on...draft and develop well, and try to fleece some other teams. I'm not usually this firm on an issue...but some of this talk is crazy. I'm sorry.

UPRedsFan
09-10-2007, 10:23 PM
If Willy Mo brought BA, what would Dunn bring?

I'm in the camp that signing another Loshe or worse for '08 will not help. Either Wayne makes a bold move with Dunn for a young, in the major leagues, talented guy who's capable of having a breakout year like BA last year or like Harang in '05... or we wait for '09 and hope Bailey and Cueto both live up to their potential then.

AmarilloRed
09-11-2007, 01:37 AM
Free agency is not the way to go for starting pitching this off season. Period. If a good trade deal arises....great. If a severely undervalued FA gem comes up...absolutely. But you just don't spend on a poor/unjustified return just because its the offseason and you have some cash to blow. With the Red's payroll...if they don't get a good return on the dollars spent...it hurts the organization in the long run. You want a quick upgrade sure, sign Kyle for 8-10 million. You want to do it the right way from here on...draft and develop well, and try to fleece some other teams. I'm not usually this firm on an issue...but some of this talk is crazy. I'm sorry.

I agree that the SP this off-season will most likely be weak. It does make more sense to trade for a better SP if we can do it. I suppose the question is are you willing to accept losing seasons from the Reds until we can expect to see Bailey/ Cueto/Maloney on the field. I would like to see us try and sign some SP this off-season if doing so would increase the chance to improve the chance of us being competitive next year. I suppose you could make an argument that any SP you sign in the off-season could turn into Eric Milton. Signing a FA SP is always a risk, and the Reds will have to determine if signing one will increase their chances of winning in the short term. Even after Bailey and Cueto get here, they will take several years (most likely) to adjust to major league hitters. Whether you do it by trade or free agency, I think it is imperative we upgrade our starting pitching in the off-season. I do respect your points, kaldaniels, and I think we should continue to draft and develop well also.