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Chip R
09-11-2007, 09:04 AM
http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070911/SPT05/709110335/1035/SPT


Ousters signal shakeup for Reds
2 already told their time is up
By C. Trent Rosecrans
Post staff reporter

Signaling a shakeup in the Reds' developmental staff, assistant director of player development Grant Griesser and minor league field coordinator Tim Naehring have been told they will not be with the organization in 2008.

General manager Wayne Krivsky declined to comment Monday evening and would not confirm or deny any changes in the Reds' organizational staff. But Griesser and Naehring both confirmed that they had been told they would not return.

"This is the time of year, just like with everyone else, we are evaluating," Krivsky said. "The changes that may or may not be made, I'm not in a position to say tonight. I'm not in a position to confirm or deny.

"We're in a time of year - once the minor league seasons are over - where all 29 other clubs are evaluating. At the appropriate time, we'll make the announcement that we feel is appropriate. I cannot confirm or deny anything. When the time is right for us, we will announce things."

Griesser has held his position since November 2000. Griesser said he was told on Monday that he would not be with the team next season and declined further comment.

Naehring spent the 2001-2005 seasons as the Reds' director of player development. A Cincinnati native, he played eight seasons for the Boston Red Sox. As minor league field coordinator, he was the Reds' top-ranking on-field instructor in the minors.

"I know what I brought to the organization for a number of years," Naehring said Monday night. "I'm disappointed. I'm from Cincinnati, I've done a lot for this community, I've done a lot for the Reds. I'm very happy for what the minor leagues were able to do, I'm happy what players I signed personally - like Javier Valentin, Norris Hopper and Ryan Freel - were able to bring to the organization. I'm very happy for Jay Bruce and I thought we had a very good year in the minor leagues."

Since taking over as general manager before the 2006 season, Krivsky has reshaped the Reds' front office. After last season, director of player development and international operations Johnny Almaraz resigned, as did long-time scout Larry Barton Jr., who had harsh words for Krivsky after ending his tenure with the Reds following 38 years.

paulrichjr
09-11-2007, 09:08 AM
Hmmm... The last of the JimBo guys? I think I hear the phone ringing and it is a Washington area code on the caller ID.

On another note... Now we know who liked the "Pete Rose" type players. Maybe Krivs got tired of guys who played the game the right way being on the team. Personally I will take Krivs guys (Phillips, Burton, Hamilton) over Hopper and Freel.

lollipopcurve
09-11-2007, 09:17 AM
Will be very interesting to see who they bring in. Can't say I'm surprised by this.

I will say that while I was initially somewhat indifferent to the departure of Almaraz, I've come to the realization that he was an asset (see the development of Cueto and Juan Francisco). So, I'm not making any judgments on Naehring/Griesser for now.

redsmetz
09-11-2007, 09:19 AM
I don't know much about either individual personally, but I've wondered when a further shake-up in the organization would take place. While perhaps some individuals signed have performed decently and even with some of the improvements made in the minors this year, I've wondered about folks who've been here over the years when we haven't produced many feasible options in our minor league system.

Johnny Footstool
09-11-2007, 09:40 AM
On another note... Now we know who liked the "Pete Rose" type players. Maybe Krivs got tired of guys who played the game the right way being on the team. Personally I will take Krivs guys (Phillips, Burton, Hamilton) over Hopper and Freel.

They're all "Krivsky's guys," or else they wouldn't be on the team

Team Clark
09-11-2007, 10:56 AM
Those long extensions finally ran out. See ya boys!

chicoruiz
09-11-2007, 11:16 AM
It's great to be from Cincinnati, it's great to "do a lot for the community" and all that stuff, but frankly I don't care if a guy's a hermit from Mongolia if he knows how to get players ready for the majors. That hasn't happened so much lately.

JaxRed
09-11-2007, 11:21 AM
I thought of TeamClark when I saw the thread....

Chip R
09-11-2007, 11:25 AM
I wonder which one was responsible for Dumatrait? ;)

Falls City Beer
09-11-2007, 11:46 AM
I'm glad these stiffs are gone.

But it all depends on who replaces them.

Danny Serafini
09-11-2007, 12:15 PM
Looks like a batch of coaches are gone. From the team press notes: Griesser, Naehring, extended spring training coordinator/roving coordinator Rick Burleson, roving hitting instructor Jim Hickman, outfield/baserunning coordinator Lynn Jones, Billings coach Ricardo Cuevas and Chattanooga manager Jayhawk Owens. Also Chattanooga pitching coach Grant Jackson is retiring.

TOBTTReds
09-11-2007, 12:56 PM
Hmmm... The last of the JimBo guys? I think I hear the phone ringing and it is a Washington area code on the caller ID.


There are still more from the JimBo era. Just haven't dug that deep, or low on the totem pole yet.

Always Red
09-11-2007, 12:56 PM
Sounds to me like Wayne is firmly in charge around here.

Patrick Bateman
09-11-2007, 01:02 PM
Jayhwak Owens deserves better. His name is too cool to be fired. Imagine him as manager. You have to respect a guy names Jayhawk.

KronoRed
09-11-2007, 01:06 PM
I wonder which one was responsible for Dumatrait? ;)

Well we know who was responsible for calling him up, and for giving him more then 1 start

BRM
09-11-2007, 01:25 PM
Naehring's response is on Fay's blog.



I thought Naehring did a good job in his seven years with the Reds. I think the problem was the player development staff didn't have much to work with. To wit: There are very few players the Reds released that ended up being successful elsewhere.

Just spoke with Naehring: "I didn't see this coming. I heard two weeks ago that Wayne (Krivsky) was unhappy with some things on the minor league level. I didn't think it would come to this. But I'm not stupid. I know anything can happen."

Naehring wouldn't go into specifics as for the reasons he was fired.

"I don't want to get into because I'll snap. I know what kind of job I did. I had a good relationship with my boss, Terry Reynolds. He was appreciative of the job I did. We had a very good year on the minor league level. I'm proud of what Jay Bruce was able to accomplish."

Naehring, the LaSalle High and Miami grad who played eight years for the Boston Red Sox, said he wasn't sure what he will do next, but that he's already gotten phone calls from other organizations.

paulrichjr
09-11-2007, 02:06 PM
Personally I don't consider Naehring part of the problem but I am not there everyday to see what is going on. I do think teams like the Braves, A's and Indians have a better grasp of running an organization than does the Reds. I hope Wayne is shaping this organization into one of the top 5 in baseball. However, I don't have that much confidence in him right now to do that. (even though I think he has done a good job so far)

JaxRed
09-11-2007, 02:34 PM
I'm surprised Jayhawk Owens was let go. Don't know how his work was viewed by Reds. Batting coach there (Jamie Dismuke) is aways very friendly so glad to see him survive....

Topcat
09-11-2007, 02:48 PM
I Can't say I am surprised honestly. Now The question is whom is brought in? I want to damn well see an improvement in player development and it can't be worse than what it has been.

camisadelgolf
09-11-2007, 02:53 PM
I hate seeing Cincinnati natives let go. If there were an improvement already lined up, it wouldn't bother me so much. I won't make any judgments within the next couple years, though.

mbgrayson
09-11-2007, 03:13 PM
....it can't be worse than what it has been.

That is not necessarily true. On pitching, we have done very poorly on developing MLB pitchers. On position players, we have done a little better. Next year we will have Dunn, Bruce, Votto, and EE (mostly developed in Reds minor league system). These four starters were all products of the Reds minor league systems.

I do agree that we need improvements to compete. To play head to head against teams that will outspend us, we need a first rate minor league development system. I hope WK and Castellini find a way to make the system better.

SunDeck
09-11-2007, 04:06 PM
Grant's a good guy. I can't say anything about whether he did a good job or not because I'm not anywhere near knowledgeable enough, but having known him when we were in high school I can say he was always fun to be around. Hearing people here call him a stiff bugs me. Can we keep it classy, please?

Thanks- SD.

Team Clark
09-11-2007, 05:13 PM
Jayhwak Owens deserves better. His name is too cool to be fired. Imagine him as manager. You have to respect a guy names Jayhawk.

Really surprised by the Jayhawk firing. He's a pretty good manager. Of all the people canned he'll most likely be the first hired. Sad to hear that Grant Jackson is retiring. Big loss IMO.

Team Clark
09-11-2007, 05:21 PM
I just read this little blurb on Fay's blog... and I laughed so hard i need a chest x-ray.



I'm not surprised about Griesser. He and Naehring are very tight. But I thought they should have made Griesser player development director and left Terry Reynolds as a scout when Johnny Almaraz left. I don't know much about the others.

The problem is Mr. Fay you don't know much about anything. It's not about the players who were released but more about the players who the Reds MISSED. A lot of that had to do with Griesser. I can explain how his role works if necessary. The Reds interviewed several people for their jobs last winter and couldn't find ONE GUY that would take the job. The interviews were discussed in the Enquirer so this isn't inside info.

Terry Reynolds needs people he can work WITH not people who think they are in charge too. I, like many on this board, am very interested in who they bring in. First step is a good one IMO, now finish the job.

LINEDRIVER
09-11-2007, 05:23 PM
Seems that Kriv knows he's got one year left on his own contract and he wants his own people in all possible places so that he wont be able to second guess himself if his contract is not extended.

LINEDRIVER
09-11-2007, 05:37 PM
Really surprised by the Jayhawk firing. He's a pretty good manager. Of all the people canned he'll most likely be the first hired. Sad to hear that Grant Jackson is retiring. Big loss IMO.

Pete Schourek gave much credit to Grant Jackson when Schourek came off the Mets' scrap pile and later won 18 games for the Reds with a 3.22 ERA in 1995.

Jackson was primarily a lefty reliever during his big league career. Jackson, who was the Reds' bullpen coach in '95, appeared in 692 games with a career 3.46 ERA over 18 big league seasons from 1965-1982.

Jackson turns 65 years-old on Sept 28th.

.

Falls City Beer
09-11-2007, 06:44 PM
Well we know who was responsible for calling him up, and for giving him more then 1 start

I'd rep you to pieces for this quote if I could. :)

I don't know who's responsible for Dumatrait, but I know where the buck stops.

Spitball
09-11-2007, 11:42 PM
I'm sorry for Tim Naehring. He is really one of the nicest and caring guys in baseball. I hope he lands on his feet somewhere.

Reds Nd2
09-12-2007, 12:57 AM
They're all "Krivsky's guys," or else they wouldn't be on the team
Give him time. Every team needs those "scrappy" type players. Sometimes you even have to sign them to an extension.

Those long extensions finally ran out. See ya boys!
When you gonna' update that blog?

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070911/SPT05/709110335/1035/SPT
"I'm very happy for what the minor leagues were able to do, I'm happy what players I signed personally - like Javier Valentin, Norris Hopper and Ryan Freel - were able to bring to the organization. I'm very happy for Jay Bruce and I thought we had a very good year in the minor leagues."
Yea' Tim. You know, umm, it's really not about winning percentage in the minor leagues. It's more about, umm yea', developing the players for the major league team. Tim, we're all happy for Jay Bruce, but how about getting Homer to develope some location on his curveball. Yea' umm Tim, I'm gonna' need to you to go ahead and work on Saturday.

I thought of TeamClark when I saw the thread....
While I just butchered Office Space, TCII was the first person I thought of as well.

On position players, we have done a little better. Next year we will have Dunn, Bruce, Votto, and EE (mostly developed in Reds minor league system). These four starters were all products of the Reds minor league systems.

That's four out of how many positional players drafted? Dunn may or not be gone after his '08 option is picked up, but your listing him with one guy who is susposed to be the Reds 3B of the future two seasons ago, another guy who hasn't made the forty man roster yet, and a guy who just got a September call up. There are alot of problems in this organization. I bothers me not one bit to see more chaff seperated from the grain.

Really surprised by the Jayhawk firing. He's a pretty good manager. Of all the people canned he'll most likely be the first hired.
I don't doubt that he'll be the first one hired, but how he is at player developement?

It's not about the players who were released but more about the players who the Reds MISSED. A lot of that had to do with Griesser. I can explain how his role works if necessary. The Reds interviewed several people for their jobs last winter and couldn't find ONE GUY that would take the job. The interviews were discussed in the Enquirer so this isn't inside info.

Who is Griesser and what did he do? I'd really love an explanation of what his job was. And if the Reds interviewed several people for the job of Griesser, and whatever it is he did, "and couldn't find ONE GUY that would take the job". What does that say about Terry Reynolds?

Seems that Kriv knows he's got one year left on his own contract and he wants his own people in all possible places so that he wont be able to second guess himself if his contract is not extended.
Kriv will be here long after this thread is forgotten.

Cedric
09-12-2007, 01:00 AM
Naehring should have been gone a LONG time ago. He's about the worst communicator in the system. And that says a lot.

This season as a whole has been positive and these moves are positive also, IMO.

Reds Nd2
09-12-2007, 01:32 AM
Naehring should have been gone a LONG time ago. He's about the worst communicator in the system. And that says a lot.
I couldn't care less about the communication skills of the Reds. Just put a winning team on the field.

"Blow it up Wayne! Make it your own."

Team Clark
09-12-2007, 01:42 AM
When you gonna' update that blog?

As soon as Griff is healthy enough to come back and have some fun with me.


I don't doubt that he'll be the first one hired, but how he is at player developement?

Apparently not good enough to keep his job. :D



Who is Griesser and what did he do? I'd really love an explanation of what his job was. And if the Reds interviewed several people for the job of Griesser, and whatever it is he did, "and couldn't find ONE GUY that would take the job". What does that say about Terry Reynolds?

Ok. As Asst. Dir of PD your job is mostly administrative. Some clubs have 2 assistants so that one can evaluate as well. Griesser is supposed to be able to evaluate but that is a sham. The Reds have their Dept set up this way: Naehring and now Reynolds handle the 40 Man with Krivksy. They talk nearly every day about updates/progress of players. The Director talks to the managers/coaches of each team nearly every day and reviews EVERY game report. The Dir. is also out evaluating his own club a great deal. He makes decisions, sometimes with the GM's help to bump guys up or down. The Dir. also has the authority to make Minor League trades or claims. Usually done with GM approval but not always. Especially in ST.

Kriv needs a body he calls Reynolds and the show begins. Paperwork city. Filing the paperwok with MLB and in the Reds case the International League for the AAA transaction and so forth. Travel arrangements, VISAS (Jesus lord almighty I hate VISAS) which seems simple but is not by any stretch of the imagination. Then all the corresponding moves. May be as simple as taking someone off the DL, a 1 for 1 move which is a whole other set of paperwork. In most cases 1 call up equals 2 other moves. (Maybe 4) Which is more phone time, talking to managers, getting a consensus, paperwork, travel and so on. You can spend 4-5 hours handling 1 call up and 1 corresponding move.

Ohh did I mention agents?? How about the 10+ calls a day that come in from agents. They need their FA signed, More playing time for Bubba, injury concerns, contractual issues, Bubba misses Momma. You just wouldn't believe. The Asst. deals with at least 80% of these issues unless the Agent happens to "catch" the director. Thank God for the Administrative Asst. God Sent.

This is a very brief synopsis and I can tell you that beyond making the final decisions on Minor League Players the Asst. does at least 75%- 80% of the work. The Director is usually gone during the season evaluating all of his teams. Maybe spending 7-10 days at home on a given month. You better have a darn good asst. manning the fort.

Ok... the off season. This is where Griesser, IMO, failed miserably. There are a ton and I mean a TON of guys that get released at various times during the off season. The waiver wire can be 16 pages. Since it comes via e-mail from MLB its a good idea to make sure all of your people get a copy in order to get input about a player you may want to pick up. Can't pick them all up but you check the names against your database and maybe get a few e-mails back from some of your scouts. Griesser who thinks he knows more than anyone in baseball (I.e. Bob Boone) failed the Reds on a consistent basis here. Missing guys at A and AA that have made it to the Bigs. I'm not talking like 3 or 4 guys, i am talking like 15-20 in the last 7 years. You have to bring in Minor League FA's. You have to. Its part of the game. You have to be able to EVALUATE and use your resources. Griesser was lost here. LOST!!

I know this from one on one. I know of a pitcher he passed on that threw 94-96 with above average breaking ball (slider) and a decent change. He made his debut with the Yankees and I sent Griesser an e-mail reminding him of his blindness. How can you pass on a young 22 yr old arm when you don't have but maybe 5 guys in your whole system with his kind of arm?? Just amazing. He worked out for the Yankees and they signed him after 15 Pitches. Billy Connors personally signed him in Tampa.

One other thing about the waiver wire is this. There are different levels to it. These levels are pretty important in ST. Let's say you want to release Joe Nacho. You can release him outright, No compensation. Release him wanting player comp or cash comp. You can also put a player out on the wire and give your light parameters for a possible trade. Buddy Bell and Billy Doran mastered this during their tenure. Naehring and Griesser, IMO, never grasped this at all.

The Asst. is never busier than in ST. How they keep up is beyond me. Must be the 3 interns in Baseball OPS driving players to the airport and faxing/emailing paperwork that keeps anyone sane.

These are not ALL of the jobs responsibilities but a synopsis. If I explained it to briefly to make it sound simple I apologize to all of those in PD who work 60 hours a week for less than 25k a year. The job takes a lot of know how and the Reds faltered in that area for a long time.

Eric_Davis
09-12-2007, 01:45 AM
I don't know much about either individual personally, but I've wondered when a further shake-up in the organization would take place. While perhaps some individuals signed have performed decently and even with some of the improvements made in the minors this year, I've wondered about folks who've been here over the years when we haven't produced many feasible options in our minor league system.

Just like Krivsky said, you make management assessments at the end of the year.

He had one year to look at what was already in place, so he didn't make any knee-jerk reactions. Then he made a few changes after last season's games. That's how you do things in a large organization.

He took his second year to assess how management adjusted to the new directions of upper management. He has now gotten rid of those who don't work well within his model. That's how you do things in a large organization.

What you don't do, as so many here have wanted, is change G.M.'s. To request a change is childish, showing a total lack of understanding of how any large business works. A G.M. has to be given at least 3, preferably 5 years, to assess, develop, and implement his or her ideas and philosophies into an organization.

If you're old enough to understand this, it isn't an issue. If you're not, then you just have to wait until you are. And you don't get to understand this by going to Grad School. You have to live it.

Krivsky has had two years. After one more year, the picture of the state of the REDS will be more clear. He will have had two drafts (of which those players will be spread out mostly through A-Ball), one year of all his own Management team throughout the organization, and three years of the ability to make trades.

Don't be screaming for his head over the next 12 months. You're not making any sense to those who matter, namely Castellini, who DOES understand how many years a G.M. should be given to succeed or fail.

Cedric
09-12-2007, 02:07 AM
I couldn't care less about the communication skills of the Reds. Just put a winning team on the field.

"Blow it up Wayne! Make it your own."

Communicating and getting the best out of players/coaches have something to do with winning? No?

sonny
09-12-2007, 03:33 AM
Just like Krivsky said, you make management assessments at the end of the year.

He had one year to look at what was already in place, so he didn't make any knee-jerk reactions. Then he made a few changes after last season's games. That's how you do things in a large organization.

He took his second year to assess how management adjusted to the new directions of upper management. He has now gotten rid of those who don't work well within his model. That's how you do things in a large organization.

What you don't do, as so many here have wanted, is change G.M.'s. To request a change is childish, showing a total lack of understanding of how any large business works. A G.M. has to be given at least 3, preferably 5 years, to assess, develop, and implement his or her ideas and philosophies into an organization.

If you're old enough to understand this, it isn't an issue. If you're not, then you just have to wait until you are. And you don't get to understand this by going to Grad School. You have to live it.

Krivsky has had two years. After one more year, the picture of the state of the REDS will be more clear. He will have had two drafts (of which those players will be spread out mostly through A-Ball), one year of all his own Management team throughout the organization, and three years of the ability to make trades.

Don't be screaming for his head over the next 12 months. You're not making any sense to those who matter, namely Castellini, who DOES understand how many years a G.M. should be given to succeed or fail.

Yep. I been of the thought that a new head of any organized group, business or otherwise, needs quite a bit of time to implement his/her vision and take actions he/she feels are best for that group.

The idea that WK should be sacked just baffles me. Likely, some of these are the same people who get angry thinking about how Tony Perez was treated.

When Jim Tressel went 7-5 in his first season here in Columbus, letters were being poured in asking for his head. "The brass at OSU doesn't know what they are doing! This guy will ruin Ohio State football!" They're not petitioning for his resignation now, I guarantee you that.

Is WK the man to turn this into a championship caliber team? Nobody knows, but at least let's give him the opportunity to do so.

lollipopcurve
09-12-2007, 08:54 AM
What you don't do, as so many here have wanted, is change G.M.'s. To request a change is childish, showing a total lack of understanding of how any large business works. A G.M. has to be given at least 3, preferably 5 years, to assess, develop, and implement his or her ideas and philosophies into an organization.

Agree 100%. And the Reds badly need continuity in the FO, I think, after the Bowden, interregnum, O'Brien, Krivsky transitions over the last few years. People talk about Atlanta and Minnesota and Oakland being models -- one of the things those organizations have had in place is a single GM (and a staff that he hires) over many years. Doesn't guarantee success, of course, but it does give the organization a chance to carry out a plan, and that takes time -- time to evaluate, bring in new people where needed, get everyone up to speed, etc.

M2
09-12-2007, 02:14 PM
What you don't do, as so many here have wanted, is change G.M.'s. To request a change is childish, showing a total lack of understanding of how any large business works. A G.M. has to be given at least 3, preferably 5 years, to assess, develop, and implement his or her ideas and philosophies into an organization.

That's incredibly naive. For instance, what job was Krivsky brought in to do? Was he brought in to implement a five-year plan or to deliver an immediate contender? I'm not pretending to have the answer, though I've yet to hear Krivsky or Castellini insist that we shouldn't expect immediate results because they're performing a detailed overhaul.

Now I agree that continuity has its benefits, but not all five-year plans were created equal. Allard Baird, Herk Robinson, Chuck LaMar, Dave Littlefield and Cam Bonifay were extended disasters. You have to have some sort of measurable progress attached to the plan. Thank God Castellini sent Dan O'Brien to the guillotine as his first act as new owner. All O'Brien did for two years was demonstrate gross incompetence. I shudder to think what we'd be looking at if he'd been allowed to institutionalize that incompetence.

I'm fairly neutral on Krivsky. He does some things well, like scoop up low cost position players. He's not so hot at bullpen construction (something he really ought to delegate to an able assistant). Mostly what he needs to do is make the choice the Reds have been avoiding this entire decade - rebuild or load up? Obviously he has to bring Castellini along on the choice, but there is no middle passage. The Reds may not have the monetary and talent resources to load up. That's a call he's got to make. Essentially he needs to assess whether X, Y and Z over the offseason nets a winning ballclub. If he chooses the rebuild route then that necessitates another type of aggressive action (collecting young talents).

The main thing is that almost nowhere in the adult world do you get to fumble around for five years without demonstrating some sort of definitive progress, especially in failing enterprises. If you're running an unsuccessful division at GE you'd be lucky to get two years to show a complete turnaround. Heck, every public company needs to show quarterly progress in order to appease its investors.

A year to assess what's already in place? Another year to assess how middle management is reacting to change? Please. I know a CIO-for-hire whose speciality is going into a Fortune 500 company and revamping its entire IT operation within a three-year window. He doesn't spend two years kicking the tires, implementation starts immediately. FWIW, I don't think Krivsky's doing anything sort of like what you're espousing. Naehring had a contract and they stuck him somewhere on the periphery until it was done. I don't know if Griesser was on a contract or not, but he wasn't part of Krivsky's core management team, so I look at him as being an on-the-fly middle management move, nothing more, nothing less.

Whether Krivsky gets five years will depend on what the expectations were when he was hired. His contract was for three years, so I'd hazard a guess that 2008 will be mildly important for him if Castellini does keep him around. Though even if organizational overhaul was his primary objective, no one's going to be fooled by the notion that success will automatically be the result after five years of tire spinning. The adults that I know and work with don't go in for that sort of magical thinking.

RedsManRick
09-12-2007, 02:45 PM
Good post M2. I would summarize Krivksy thusly:

1.) The product on the field is not markedly better than it was when he inherited it.
2.) The potential of the product on the field is better than it was when he inherited it.
3.) The minor league system as a whole is stronger than they were when he inherited.
4.) Financially, the Reds are in a stronger position in terms of salary distribution, contract commitments, etc.

You're right. The bottom line is progress. If Castellini honestly is demanding playoffs or bust immediately, then Krivsky has no doubt failed. However, I think there have been improvements in his 2 years. That said, those improvements need to turn in to wins.

The Brewers are in year 4 of a 7 year plan. The playoffs were supposed to come in year 5. They are ahead of schedule. Is a .500 team great? Of course not. However, they've been making steady progress.

Next year will likely be make or break for Krivksy. I don't know what the criteria are exactly, but in year three, I would argue there needs to be tangible results in terms of wins. However, it is not fair to use only the W/L of the major league team as the only barometer. There comes a time when that is the bottom line. However, I don't think that time has come quite yet.

traderumor
09-12-2007, 05:12 PM
The main thing is that almost nowhere in the adult world do you get to fumble around for five years without demonstrating some sort of definitive progress, especially in failing enterprises. If you're running an unsuccessful division at GE you'd be lucky to get two years to show a complete turnaround. Heck, every public company needs to show quarterly progress in order to appease its investors.

I don't know that the short-term emphasis of public companies is a fair projection to turning around a sports franchise. And while this may be a fair assessment of the situation of a public company's expectations, the emphasis on the short-term is really harming these companies. It is not a good thing for real businesses anymore than it is sports franchises.

M2
09-12-2007, 05:22 PM
I don't know that the short-term emphasis of public companies is a fair projection to turning around a sports franchise. And while this may be a fair assessment of the situation of a public company's expectations, the emphasis on the short-term is really harming these companies. It is not a good thing for real businesses anymore than it is sports franchises.

I agree to a certain extent. There's a lot of pennywise, pound foolish thinking out in the business world.

And I'm for empire building when it comes to sports franchises.

Though what I found completely backwards about ED's comments was this notion that in the adult world executives get years to reorganize without having to achieve any specific results. That couldn't be farther from the truth.

traderumor
09-12-2007, 05:40 PM
Though what I found completely backwards about ED's comments was this notion that in the adult world executives get years to reorganize without having to achieve any specific results. That couldn't be farther from the truth.True enough.

Matt700wlw
09-12-2007, 06:47 PM
I wonder if Krivsky cried?

Reds Nd2
09-17-2007, 10:12 PM
As soon as Griff is healthy enough to come back and have some fun with me.
Yea', but you've already said that you had some in the can. So why not update the blog?

Apparently not good enough to keep his job. :D
Didn't answer my question, but I guess not.

Ok... the off season. This is where Griesser, IMO, failed miserably. There are a ton and I mean a TON of guys that get released at various times during the off season. The waiver wire can be 16 pages. Since it comes via e-mail from MLB its a good idea to make sure all of your people get a copy in order to get input about a player you may want to pick up. Can't pick them all up but you check the names against your database and maybe get a few e-mails back from some of your scouts. Griesser who thinks he knows more than anyone in baseball (I.e. Bob Boone) failed the Reds on a consistent basis here. Missing guys at A and AA that have made it to the Bigs. I'm not talking like 3 or 4 guys, i am talking like 15-20 in the last 7 years. You have to bring in Minor League FA's. You have to. Its part of the game. You have to be able to EVALUATE and use your resources. Griesser was lost here. LOST!!
Thanks for the explanation for starters, but players hit waivers way before the off season begins. And if any organization's only hope is "maybe get a few e-mails back from some of your scouts", then that organization is lost, way beyond hope. I'm not a Griesser appologists here, but there are alot of teams who miss the potential of guys at LO-A and HI-A, even AA, and AAA. I'm just not that quick to lable a guy, who isn't even mentioned in the 2007 media guide, as "LOST!!" There's lot's of middle managers above him that deserve some blame too.

I know this from one on one. I know of a pitcher he passed on that threw 94-96 with above average breaking ball (slider) and a decent change. He made his debut with the Yankees and I sent Griesser an e-mail reminding him of his blindness. How can you pass on a young 22 yr old arm when you don't have but maybe 5 guys in your whole system with his kind of arm?? Just amazing. He worked out for the Yankees and they signed him after 15 Pitches. Billy Connors personally signed him in Tampa.
But, you said "I'm not talking like 3 or 4 guys, i am talking like 15-20 in the last 7 years". Now you can only name one example? Who was the Yankee pitcher? If he was signed by the Yankees, it's not insider information. You can share the name.

One other thing about the waiver wire is this. There are different levels to it. These levels are pretty important in ST.
Naehring made his fortune signing Minor League free agents.

Communicating and getting the best out of players/coaches have something to do with winning? No?
Yes. I was just making a snippy coment.

JaxRed
09-17-2007, 10:34 PM
Team Clark, thanks for posting the way the things work.

Team Clark
09-17-2007, 11:37 PM
Yea', but you've already said that you had some in the can. So why not update the blog?


You know..that's a good idea.

Didn't answer my question, but I guess not.


My opinion only matters so much.

Thanks for the explanation for starters, but players hit waivers way before the off season begins. And if any organization's only hope is "maybe get a few e-mails back from some of your scouts", then that organization is lost, way beyond hope. I'm not a Griesser appologists here, but there are alot of teams who miss the potential of guys at LO-A and HI-A, even AA, and AAA. I'm just not that quick to lable a guy, who isn't even mentioned in the 2007 media guide, as "LOST!!" There's lot's of middle managers above him that deserve some blame too.


That was more or less my point. They miss players a lot more often then you can imagine. Fay gave Naehring credit for Freel. Not entirely a true statement. There are quite a few Reds acquisitions who just flat out had to beg to get a job and when they succeed the Reds brass acts like they found a diamond in dog doo. My hands on/personal experience says Griesser is "lost".

But, you said "I'm not talking like 3 or 4 guys, i am talking like 15-20 in the last 7 years". Now you can only name one example? Who was the Yankee pitcher? If he was signed by the Yankees, it's not insider information. You can share the name.


I can name almost all of them actually. The problem is I am already teetering on inside info in this post. My warning level is at 60% and I do enjoy posting here. LOL!

Naehring made his fortune signing Minor League free agents.


God I hope so. That's his job!! Keep in mind most of these guys come to him not the other way around.


Yes. I was just making a snippy coment.


I'm with ya. This has been a fun post.

Team Clark
09-17-2007, 11:39 PM
Team Clark, thanks for posting the way the things work.

Thanks Jax. As I have re-read the post I feel that I left a great deal out. It's difficult to put into a few paragraphs what a detailed job they have. My summary is just that a summary.

Team Clark
09-23-2007, 04:07 AM
Naehring has been contacted by the Yankees for a similar position in Player Development. I find that somewhat strange but it is all about who you know.