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JaxRed
09-13-2007, 08:44 AM
There was an earlier thread about how the Lookouts owner needed persuading by Castellini to extend Lookouts affiliation for 07-08. That article was written by a newspaper guy.

The Lookouts main problem with the Reds was

1) No exhibitions where Reds come to Chattanooga
2) Reds organizational chaos.

Johnny Almarez was a main point person in that negotiation...

Since then the Reds did not schedule an 07 exhibition, the Reds fired their manager, parted ways with Almarez and have now fired the Chattanooga manager. In an article by a different media outlet (TV), the Lookouts owner sure seems to be indicating he's moving on to another team....
-----------------------------------
"Lookouts Arrangement With Reds Isn't Long For This World.
by Randy Smith


On Wednesday of this week, it was announced that the Cincinnati Reds were dismissing Lookouts manager JayHawk Owens after four seasons. In addition to me and several others, Lookouts owner and President Frank Burke is still wondering, Why? JayHawk, a former stand out at MTSU was 288-268, that's a winning record. In addition, Owens guided the Lookouts to the Southern League Playoffs twice in four years. So what really happened? The Reds have undergone many changes in administration and with this many newcomers, friends must be taken care of. That's at least what Owens thinks. But we really don't need to be worried about JayHawk. He will get a job in a good organization and it will be a lot sooner than later. Oh by the way, you can also count on Frank Burke to take a really close look at other Major League organizations in the next few months. After all, and I hope the Reds understand this, you have to take care of your friends. "

oneupper
09-13-2007, 09:03 AM
Lookouts are probably also upset that prospects are moving up to Louisville quicker (Bruce, Cueto, Bailey, etc.)

JaxRed
09-13-2007, 09:05 AM
I did wonder whether the Bruce pit stop in Chattanooga (21 games I think) would upset them.

podgejeff_
09-13-2007, 09:11 AM
They could always move the AA team to Lexington :)

But alas, sigh, we have the Legends...

medford
09-13-2007, 09:58 AM
The Chattanooga affiliate probably doesn't make much sense for the Reds these days. I'm not sure how long the reds have had their AA affiliate there, but there was probably a time when the reds could draw a handful of fans from the Chattanooga area to come up to a Reds series over a weekend. With TBS and the success that the Braves have had since the start of the 90's I assume most of Chattanooga is now considerred a Braves town.

However, I'm not sure what other alternatives they would have at the moment.

Triples
09-13-2007, 10:08 AM
Well, sometimes you get what you pay for. If you go to a Lookouts game they will announce the Braves score but not the Reds. Same thing goes for the local paper. Lots of stories about the Braves but nothing about the Reds and really only short stories about the Lookouts.


The Chattanooga affiliate probably doesn't make much sense for the Reds these days. I'm not sure how long the reds have had their AA affiliate there, but there was probably a time when the reds could draw a handful of fans from the Chattanooga area to come up to a Reds series over a weekend. With TBS and the success that the Braves have had since the start of the 90's I assume most of Chattanooga is now considerred a Braves town.

However, I'm not sure what other alternatives they would have at the moment.

TOBTTReds
09-13-2007, 10:21 AM
There is a mis-conception with people that work for minor league teams that the record matters a whole lot. It's all about development. Sure an org wants their minor league teams to make the playoffs and so on. But honestly, a minor league coach has a winning record and gets fired...boo hoo. It's about the players down there, not the team...sounds funny right?

dfs
09-13-2007, 10:31 AM
There is a mis-conception with people that work for minor league teams that the record matters a whole lot. It's all about development. Sure an org wants their minor league teams to make the playoffs and so on. But honestly, a minor league coach has a winning record and gets fired...boo hoo. It's about the players down there, not the team...sounds funny right?
Well, that's a point of view thing now isn't it.

From the reds point of view, sure it's all about player development.

From the point of view of the owner of the lookouts, it's all about putting seats in the seats. That means a history of winning, good promotion and a superior ballpark experience. Having a consistent coaching staff the fans can identify is part of it and it also helps to have an affiliation with a major league team that your fans can root for as well. The lookout's fans identify more with the braves than the reds. Now the coaching staff has been removed despite a history of local success.

redsmetz
09-13-2007, 10:34 AM
There is a mis-conception with people that work for minor league teams that the record matters a whole lot. It's all about development. Sure an org wants their minor league teams to make the playoffs and so on. But honestly, a minor league coach has a winning record and gets fired...boo hoo. It's about the players down there, not the team...sounds funny right?

I think you're probably right, although I might have tried to put it more diplomatically. :) Isn't it possible that the AA Level more times than not is the level that may get shortchanged the most? While I think Krivsky is committed to a level to level progression for Reds prospects, he's never said how long those stops will be. Now ideally, maybe we progress to where High A is the layover and kids jump more quickly from Dayton to AA.

But you're right that ultimately the minor leagues exists to produce good players for the Major League club. It will never be any different.

OesterPoster
09-13-2007, 11:33 AM
Did they ever announce who would be the new team in Bowling Green, KY? And what about Columbus's new stadium and affiliation? They consider themselves a AAA town and ballpark, but would they be happy as the Reds AA team?

JaxRed
09-13-2007, 11:49 AM
One of the many reasons I am following this closely, is that Jacksonville (unlike Lexington) is a prime candidate to replace Chattanooga.

Same league, and Jax is almost certainly going to lose the Dodgers after 08. That would put the AA club and the High A club and the minor league headquarters all within a 3-4 hour drive.

JaxRed
09-13-2007, 11:52 AM
Did they ever announce who would be the new team in Bowling Green, KY? And what about Columbus's new stadium and affiliation? They consider themselves a AAA town and ballpark, but would they be happy as the Reds AA team?

Absolutely ZERO chance that the owners of the AAA franchise would like to become a AA franchise.

Remember, when affililiations change, it's among existing owners... So the Lookouts are staying in Chattanooga, and the Suns are staying in Jax, it's simply a question of which team they are affiliated with.

texasdave
09-13-2007, 12:39 PM
I am not big on conspiracy theories, but could the Reds be bringing their AA franchise to Cincinnati? If that is not the case, would somebody please explain that AA-level bullpen they have been running out to the mound all season long? Furthermore, look at the players the Reds have added recently: Ellison, Coats and Colina. Hmm. And who on this board doesn't think that Phil Dumatrait would make a fine AA Opening Day pitcher? It was strange when they bumped Cueto backed to Chattanooga. And Bailey is in Sarasota, so his next promotion would be to - you guessed it - AA. I just wonder. Lookout, Cincinnati, the Cincinnati Lookouts are right around the corner.

adampad
09-14-2007, 01:33 AM
I hate the fact Lexington chose to be a single A team. I overheard someone giving a speech to a group say the ownership thought that the general public didn't care if it was A or AAA and they would have had to pay more to have a AAA team. They may be right in some respects but I know I would go a lot more often if I had actually heard of a few players on the teams. Anyway, they only have one more year with the Astros, and may be ready to move to AA according to this article. And it says Chattanooga has resigned.

http://www.kentucky.com/271/story/167528.html

JaxRed
09-14-2007, 10:50 AM
And it says Chattanooga has resigned.

http://www.kentucky.com/271/story/167528.html

That resigning was the one for 2007-2008. The Lookouts have not extended beyond 2008

corkedbat
09-14-2007, 01:33 PM
I know its a huge longshot, but if they did make the Legends the Reds AA Club, I'd be first in line for season tix.

adampad
09-14-2007, 05:14 PM
Why does everyone think its such a long shot? Seems like a perfect fit to me. (I may be a little biased). It would be great for the Lexington club to be Reds farm team, and I cant see how it would be bad for the Reds either. I wish this never came up. Now im just getting my hopes up.....

Joseph
09-14-2007, 05:40 PM
I think Dayton to AA and Bowling green as an A ball team makes a lot of sense too. :)

JaxRed
09-14-2007, 06:00 PM
Why does everyone think its such a long shot? Seems like a perfect fit to me. (I may be a little biased). It would be great for the Lexington club to be Reds farm team, and I cant see how it would be bad for the Reds either. I wish this never came up. Now im just getting my hopes up.....

Don't get your hopes up.....

The odds of Lexington becoming the Reds AA franchise are incredibly, incredibly low...

Read the article about the Lexington owner, he talks about how little chance it has.

Heath
09-14-2007, 06:12 PM
I think Dayton to AA and Bowling green as an A ball team makes a lot of sense too. :)

Don't worry, JaxRed will destroy this notion too.

JaxRed
09-15-2007, 10:00 AM
Well, now that you mention it......

Teams changing affiliation has nothing to do with a city getting a higher franchise. Nothing.

If some city like Lexington or Dayton wants to get a AA team, you get excited when you hear that a AA team is up for sale, or the owner wants to move the team.

That's when the Lexington's and Dayton's of the world have a chance to move up.
Ironically it's easier for a team with no city (as Dayton and Lexington were recently) to pick up a franchise.

And you have to fit geographically with the league. And for both Dayton and Lexington it's a problem.

There are 3 AA leagues: Texas (which is out for both), Southern and Eastern.

Southern - Dayton just wouldn't fit. Lexington is "iffy". Lexington would be an additional 3 hour drive from the northern most city, Knoxville.

Eastern - Lexington wouldn't fit. Dayton is "iffy". Dayton again adds 3 hours to the closest city.

So there's your chance. Find a AA team ready to move or be sold......

GoReds33
09-18-2007, 07:37 PM
Is it possible for a MLB team to buy a minor league team? Then make them the affiliate? If the Reds bought Lexington, and moved the team there, they would make money from two stadiums.

gedred69
09-24-2007, 07:48 PM
Well, now that you mention it......

Teams changing affiliation has nothing to do with a city getting a higher franchise. Nothing.

If some city like Lexington or Dayton wants to get a AA team, you get excited when you hear that a AA team is up for sale, or the owner wants to move the team.

That's when the Lexington's and Dayton's of the world have a chance to move up.
Ironically it's easier for a team with no city (as Dayton and Lexington were recently) to pick up a franchise.

And you have to fit geographically with the league. And for both Dayton and Lexington it's a problem.

There are 3 AA leagues: Texas (which is out for both), Southern and Eastern.

Southern - Dayton just wouldn't fit. Lexington is "iffy". Lexington would be an additional 3 hour drive from the northern most city, Knoxville.

Eastern - Lexington wouldn't fit. Dayton is "iffy". Dayton again adds 3 hours to the closest city.

So there's your chance. Find a AA team ready to move or be sold......