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jamess697
09-15-2007, 01:00 AM
I have no idea what is going to happen, but we have so many outfielders with 5 spots next year.

You have to believe that they will pick up Dunn's option and they want Griffey to hit 600 as a red.

Dunn-Hamilton-Griffey
Hopper-Coats-BRUCE-Freel
Dickerson-Keppinger

What are some thoughts out there.

durl
09-15-2007, 01:24 AM
I believe they'll keep Dunn and Griffey.

Keppinger can be used mainly in the infield so I'm not thinking about him as an extra outfielder.

My gut tells me Freel may be traded in the offseason. Hopper has filled in extremely well for him.

So I'll predict that the 4 main outfielders will be Dunn, Hamilton, Griffey, and Hopper. Who takes the 5th spot will be determined in Spring Training.

AmarilloRed
09-15-2007, 01:49 AM
Bruce and Dickerson will start in AAA. Coats may not be here next year. Don't forget about Ellison. He will be lurking out there just waiting to waste a roster spot.:D

Javy Pornstache
09-15-2007, 02:02 AM
-I trade Griffey to Seattle for C Jeff Clement or RHP Brandon Morrow and maybe a lower-level prospect as well. I think Clement's a great target, as with Johjima locked in, he's more available, and Seattle seems to have soured on him awfully quick. I'd love to have Morrow, too. Wladimir Balentin is an intriguing option, and with Jones already up, Ichiro's extension, Guillen's extension, and Ibanez's presence, I think Wlady is available.

-Picking up Dunn's option is absolute no-brainer. 40 HRs, 100 RBI, 100 walks, 100 runs, 900+ OPS, 155-160 games played nearly every year.... that stuff doesn't grow on trees.

-Jay Bruce is up and plays everyday.

-Josh Hamilton plays everyday... provided he's not too 'frail' to, as some discussion on the ORG is talking about. As for which plays CF, which plays RF between Bruce and Hamilton... that's to be determined.

-If an everyday CF is still a need (due to injury concerns to Hamilton), there are some tradeable options. I like David DeJesus as an option, and KC apparently has him on the block as they're enamored with Joey Gathright now. Also names such as Mike Bourn, Rocco Baldelli, Carlos Gomez is blocked for the Mets, maybe even Brian Anderson as a buy low candidate. They're out there.

-Jeff Keppinger can play the corner OF in a pinch, but is primarily a backup IF for me next year. A good pinch-hitting option, and a couple starts a week if possible.

-Norris Hopper is a very serviceable fourth outfielder, and I'd love to have him in that role, but shouldn't be an everyday player.

-I would be happy if Ryan Freel wasn't back in Cincinnati. He's redundant at this point, but was given a foolhardy contract. I do think someone would give up a lower-ceiling minor leaguer and take his contact on though.

-Buck Coats is more than welcome to sign a minor league deal if he'd like to come back to Louisville, but he's not in the picture for Cincinnati if it's up to me.

-But Chris Dickerson would be if I needed a fifth outfielder. Lefty on the bench, excellent speed and defense. An upgrade from Jason Ellison. And even if he hits as poorly as Ellison, he still would have a use as a top pinch-runner and late-inning defensive replacement. He doesn't have to bat. Too bad Ellison did.

My team would roughly be like this, position player wise:

OF: Bruce, Dickerson, Dunn, Hamilton, Hopper
IF: Cantu, Encarnacion, Gonzalez, Keppinger, Phillips, Votto, Lopez/Janish
C: Ross, Clement

Pitching is a whole other thing, and I'm sure it'll come up... at some point. Hah.

AmarilloRed
09-15-2007, 02:10 AM
Good luck on convincing Seattle to take Griffey's deferred money. It will be a challenge to trade Griffey because of that.

dthomas24
09-15-2007, 02:27 AM
OF: Bruce, Dickerson, Dunn, Hamilton, Hopper
IF: Cantu, Encarnacion, Gonzalez, Keppinger, Phillips, Votto, Lopez/Janish
C: Ross, Clement


Good points in your post! Just curious though, where's Javy and Hatteberg? Do they just let them walk (I honestly don't know about Javy's contract status but I know they have an option on Hatteberg's) I have to agree that the orginization would love to cash in on Jr. hitting 600 in Cincy. I would love to see them get some value for him in a trade but I just don't see anyone taking on his deferred $ as was already said.

AmarilloRed
09-15-2007, 02:30 AM
Hatteberg and Valentin both have option years in 2008. I would assume the member has the Reds declining both Valentin's and Hatteberg's option years.

Javy Pornstache
09-15-2007, 02:37 AM
Thanks Dthomas. Amarillo's correct, I didn't mention it in the original post, but I was operating under the idea of declining both options on Hatteberg and Valentin. Javy's done a good job, but in this hypothetical situation, in gaining Clement, and with Ross already signed to an extension, I just don't see the need in picking up Javy's option. I would've liked to have seen the Reds cash in on Hatteberg's numbers (enormous home/away splits, btw) and deal him with Votto ready, but they didn't, and pulled him off waivers when he was claimed sometime after July 31st. I could see picking the option up and dealing him as well, as it is an economical option.

I agree that Griffey's chase for 600 will play a bigger factor than some in the office would lead anyone to believe, but I think that's definitely the right thing to do as far as who to move, who to keep with the outfielders, with Dunn and Hamilton as the other options. I do NOT think Griffey is nearly as difficult to deal now as he has been in years past.

kaldaniels
09-15-2007, 02:39 AM
Hatteberg and Valentin both have option years in 2008. I would assume the member has the Reds declining both Valentin's and Hatteberg's option years.

The Reds would be wise even if they don't want Hatte back (which I think they should) to at least pick up his option and deal him for the best prospect he can net. While the amount of Dunn's contract may warrant a fraction of a debate on picking up his option...I'd have to say Hatte's is the true no-brainer when it comes to pick up the option.

Chi-Town Red
09-15-2007, 10:41 AM
Griffey, Dunn, Hamilton are not going anywhere in 2008 thats it!

chettt
09-15-2007, 12:03 PM
The first question is Adam Dunn. Pick up his option? YES, but only if it contains a long-term contract. If he doesn't want to be here - sign & trade deal. The Texas Rangers is where I would look first. Package Dunn, also, sign & trade Hatteberg, Gonzalez & Coffey for Michael Young, Kasen Gabbard & Akinori Otsuka (if healthy). This would have a line-up of:

Freel/Hopper/Keppinger lf
Hamilton cf
Young ss
Griffey rf
Phillips 2b
Votto 1b
Encarnacion 3b
Ross/Valentin c

Starting Pitchers
Harang
Arroyo
Bailey
Belisle
Gabbard
Shearn

Relievers
Burton
Majewski
Weathers
Bray
Coutlangus
Gosling
Otsuka

dthomas24
09-15-2007, 12:36 PM
I would love to get Michael Young but why would the Rangers want to deal him?
I agree with you on Hatte (sign and trade, but I'm not sure your going to get much for him, he's no spring chicken!)
If we can sign Dunn to a long term deal for a hometown discount I'd do it. But Dunn is a guy I love one day and then he drives me crazy the next. If he can be dealt this winter for pitching (which isn't easy to come by) then it wouldn't break my heart.
I also think Jr. is here to stay for 2008.
Is this an outfield that can produce next year?
LF- Hamilton (has to stay healthy, move to left may help with that)
CF- Bruce (I'd love to see what he could do)
RF- Jr. (Stayed healthy this year with the move to right)

Prf15
09-15-2007, 01:01 PM
We need to not re-sign Hatte at all. Let Votto and Cantu cover 1st base with Votto getting most of the action.

As for the outfield I expect to see Dunn, Hamilton, and Griffey out there come opening day. I also expect Griffey to be the center of some big trade rumors around the deadline if we are not in the race and if Bruce is tearing up AAA.

As for the 5th Outfield spot, I would love to see Dickerson get it. He has good speed and defense, his bat isn't the greatest but we got enough guys who can hit on this team.

UPRedsFan
09-15-2007, 01:10 PM
For a small market team you have to keep the young, talented inexpensive guys and deal the expensive guys for pitching. We have 14/15 major league position players for 13 roster spots.

Dunn
Griffey
Hamilton
Hopper
Freel
Bruce (I'm including because he should be in Cin next year)
Votto
Hatteburg
Cantu
Phillips
Gonzo
EE
Keppinger
Valentin
Ross

Wayne needs to play let's make a deal with teams looking for offense and make the best deal that comes along. If that means we sign and trade Dunn, so be it

RedDevil
09-15-2007, 01:13 PM
For a small market team you have to keep the young, talented inexpensive guys and deal the expensive guys for pitching. We have 14/15 major league position players for 13 roster spots.

Dunn
Griffey
Hamilton
Hopper
Freel
Bruce (I'm including because he should be in Cin next year)
Votto
Hatteburg
Cantu
Phillips
Gonzo
EE
Keppinger
Valentin
Ross

Wayne needs to play let's make a deal with teams looking for offense and make the best deal that comes along. If that means we sign and trade Dunn, so be it

Those two aren't really starters though

AmarilloRed
09-15-2007, 04:11 PM
For a small market team you have to keep the young, talented inexpensive guys and deal the expensive guys for pitching. We have 14/15 major league position players for 13 roster spots.

Dunn
Griffey
Hamilton
Hopper
Freel
Bruce (I'm including because he should be in Cin next year)
Votto
Hatteburg
Cantu
Phillips
Gonzo
EE
Keppinger
Valentin
Ross

Wayne needs to play let's make a deal with teams looking for offense and make the best deal that comes along. If that means we sign and trade Dunn, so be it

Valentin, Hatteberg, and Dunn all have options and some of them might not be back next year. Unless Griffey is traded he will spend all of 2008 with the Reds. Bruce will spend all of 2008 in Louisville unless the Reds trade either or Dunn or Griffey next year, or decline Dunn's option. I imagine Keppinger, Freel, and Hopper will spend most of their time on the bench.

UPRedsFan
09-15-2007, 08:35 PM
Those two aren't really starters though

I'm counting roster spots, not starters. Someone's got to be traded

RedDevil
09-15-2007, 10:29 PM
I'm counting roster spots, not starters. Someone's got to be traded

Dunn, Hamilton, Griffey should all be starting in the outfield. Votto and Cantu at first, Phillips at 2nd, Gonzo at short, Edwin at 3rd, Keppinger as a supersub, Ross and Javy behind the plate. Freel and Hopper taking spot starts and what not in the outfield. Leave Bruce in Triple A, don't pick up Hatte's option and there you go.

AmarilloRed
09-16-2007, 12:20 AM
Dunn, Hamilton, Griffey should all be starting in the outfield. Votto and Cantu at first, Phillips at 2nd, Gonzo at short, Edwin at 3rd, Keppinger as a supersub, Ross and Javy behind the plate. Freel and Hopper taking spot starts and what not in the outfield. Leave Bruce in Triple A, don't pick up Hatte's option and there you go.

Hamilton should be starting, but he needs to show he can remain healthy. We may see Bruce sooner than expected if Hamilton continues to have injury problems.

RedDevil
09-16-2007, 07:25 AM
Hamilton should be starting, but he needs to show he can remain healthy. We may see Bruce sooner than expected if Hamilton continues to have injury problems.

If Hamilton or Griffey goes down with an injury then by all means Bruce should be up with the Reds.

Screwball
09-17-2007, 01:35 PM
I have no idea what is going to happen, but we have so many outfielders with 5 spots next year.


Well this is certainly a unique position for the Reds: too many outfielders and not enough pitching.

Let's see if Wayne can spin some magic again (I think he'll have to, or expect to see a repeat of '07 in '08)...

AmarilloRed
09-17-2007, 01:39 PM
We have a lot of outfielders; just not enough starting outfielders. There is no guarantee Dunn or Griffey will be here past 2008 and Bruce can't start in two outfield spots simultaneously.

muethibp
09-17-2007, 11:59 PM
Are we really talking about not picking up Hatteberg's option? He's cheap, reliable, a great guy...why wouldn't we pick him up and have him pinch hit next year?

kaldaniels
09-18-2007, 12:02 AM
Are we really talking about not picking up Hatteberg's option? He's cheap, reliable, a great guy...why wouldn't we pick him up and have him pinch hit next year?

I said earlier in this thread...am got no response. At the least...pick up his option and deal him for a prospect.

AmarilloRed
09-18-2007, 01:38 AM
Would Hatteberg be open to a reserve role? He might think it was better to start somewhere else than be a bench player here, which is exactly what Rich Aurilia decided.

muethibp
09-18-2007, 08:57 AM
Would Hatteberg be open to a reserve role? He might think it was better to start somewhere else than be a bench player here, which is exactly what Rich Aurilia decided.

Difference is that Aurillia had a choice in the matter. The Reds hold a team option on Hatte so they control his fate.

bounty37h
09-18-2007, 11:48 AM
[QUOTE=Javy Pornstache;1464853]-I trade Griffey to Seattle for C Jeff Clement or RHP Brandon Morrow and maybe a lower-level prospect as well. I think Clement's a great target, as with Johjima locked in, he's more available, and Seattle seems to have soured on him awfully quick. I'd love to have Morrow, too. Wladimir Balentin is an intriguing option, and with Jones already up, Ichiro's extension, Guillen's extension, and Ibanez's presence, I think Wlady is available.

-Picking up Dunn's option is absolute no-brainer. 40 HRs, 100 RBI, 100 walks, 100 runs, 900+ OPS, 155-160 games played nearly every year.... that stuff doesn't grow on trees.

-Jay Bruce is up and plays everyday.

-Josh Hamilton plays everyday... provided he's not too 'frail' to, as some discussion on the ORG is talking about. As for which plays CF, which plays RF between Bruce and Hamilton... that's to be determined.

-If an everyday CF is still a need (due to injury concerns to Hamilton), there are some tradeable options. I like David DeJesus as an option, and KC apparently has him on the block as they're enamored with Joey Gathright now. Also names such as Mike Bourn, Rocco Baldelli, Carlos Gomez is blocked for the Mets, maybe even Brian Anderson as a buy low candidate. They're out there.

If your concerned aout Hamilton and injuries, you sure dont want to come near Baldelli!!!