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View Full Version : Aaron Harang vs Carlos Zambrano



Matt700wlw
09-18-2007, 08:09 PM
Aarong Harang

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=421685

Carlos Zambrano

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=407296

RedLegSuperStar
09-18-2007, 08:22 PM
Aarong Harang

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=421685

Carlos Zambrano

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=407296

I'll take Harang.. he's more consistent compared to Zambrano

KronoRed
09-18-2007, 08:34 PM
Harang, he seems sane

MrCinatit
09-18-2007, 08:36 PM
Harang is able to keep his head in the game a lot better than Carlos.

Ltlabner
09-18-2007, 08:36 PM
Without looking at the numbers, I'd go with Harrang. I know it sounds totally homer, but I think he's got a smoother delivery and certinally has a much more stable mental state. I like fire and passion but Zambranno just doesn't know how to keep himself under controll.

Maybe the numbers will make taking AH over CZ look silly, but just on the surface, Harrang by a landslide.

Matt700wlw
09-18-2007, 08:38 PM
Without looking at the numbers, I'd go with Harrang. I know it sounds totally homer, but I think he's got a smoother delivery and certinally has a much more stable mental state. I like fire and passion but Zambranno just doesn't know how to keep himself under controll.

Maybe the numbers will make taking AH over CZ look silly, but just on the surface, Harrang by a landslide.

The numbers posted are for this season....Harang's the guy hands down.

Patrick Bateman
09-18-2007, 09:24 PM
Zambrano is pretty darned overrated. At this point Zambrano's raw stuff is translating to less K's than Harang. The main difference between the two guys is that Harang has far superior command, and that's the difference.

Hoosier Red
09-19-2007, 12:04 AM
Thom said something which makes me think why Harang is under rated.
He mentioned Harang just seems to roll out every time 7 IP, 2 ER.

However the fact that Harang hasn't seemed to put out that 9 IP, 0 R, 10 K performance in a while leads me to think he's been overlooked. When he has had a performance like that, he often hasn't gotten the win, (Cleveland when they won in 12, and another game which I'm forgetting.)

AtomicDumpling
09-19-2007, 12:51 AM
Thom said something which makes me think why Harang is under rated.
He mentioned Harang just seems to roll out every time 7 IP, 2 ER.

However the fact that Harang hasn't seemed to put out that 9 IP, 0 R, 10 K performance in a while leads me to think he's been overlooked. When he has had a performance like that, he often hasn't gotten the win, (Cleveland when they won in 12, and another game which I'm forgetting.)

I think that is a good point.

In today's age of ESPN highlight reels and 60-second sports segments on the news it is the one flashy play or spectacular game that gets the attention.

The casual fan thinks the pitcher that throws a no-hitter is a great player while being unaware of the guy that produces a quality start every time. The guy that makes a catch while diving into the stands is a better fielder than the guy that makes difficult plays look easy.

That is why poor fielders like Derek Jeter win Gold Gloves.
That is why below average players like Ryan Freel are so popular.

This is the era of style over substance.
This is the era of flash over consistency.
This is the era of image over reality.

Aaron Harang goes out every 5th day and gets the job done like he is paid to do. He makes it look easy most of the time. He makes excellence seem routine.

If he wants to make himself a star he should pump his fist after every strikeout. He should sprint back to the dugout after stopping a rally. He should stalk around the mound like a crazy person. He should insult other players in the postgame interview. He should throw beanballs. If he did these things he would win awards, make more money, get endorsement deals and be a superstar. He chooses instead to lead this team by example. Maybe someday the rest will follow.

Chip R
09-19-2007, 12:56 AM
Well said, AD.

WVRedsFan
09-19-2007, 02:10 AM
Well said, AD.

I agree. No pitcher in the NL or MLB for that matter is more consistent and yet he gets no respect. The Ryan Freels of the world will pass and Harang will still be pitching 7 innings of 2-run ball. Boggles my mind.

I had to laugh tonight at the caller to Paul Daughtery's call-in show that proposed an outfield of Hopper, Freel, and anyone else. Freel was the main guy. "Everybody in Cincinnati loves Freel." Wow. It's the perception of playing hard whether or not you accomplish anything by doing it. Delete 70 HR's and 200 RBI's from the lineup, but By God hustle and be unseccessful doing it and you are loved.

Harang, OTOH, just does the right things without flash in a manner that doesn't call attention to himself and all the love goes to Freel and Hopper who couldn't make any other starting lineup in either league.

I just shake my head.

harangatang
09-19-2007, 02:20 AM
Best post I've seen in awhile AD.

The Baumer
09-19-2007, 03:02 AM
That is one grandoise manifesto, AD.

"This is the era of...!"

GAC
09-19-2007, 05:50 AM
I think that is a good point.

In today's age of ESPN highlight reels and 60-second sports segments on the news it is the one flashy play or spectacular game that gets the attention.

The casual fan thinks the pitcher that throws a no-hitter is a great player while being unaware of the guy that produces a quality start every time. The guy that makes a catch while diving into the stands is a better fielder than the guy that makes difficult plays look easy.

That is why poor fielders like Derek Jeter win Gold Gloves.
That is why below average players like Ryan Freel are so popular.

This is the era of style over substance.
This is the era of flash over consistency.
This is the era of image over reality.

Aaron Harang goes out every 5th day and gets the job done like he is paid to do. He makes it look easy most of the time. He makes excellence seem routine.

If he wants to make himself a star he should pump his fist after every strikeout. He should sprint back to the dugout after stopping a rally. He should stalk around the mound like a crazy person. He should insult other players in the postgame interview. He should throw beanballs. If he did these things he would win awards, make more money, get endorsement deals and be a superstar. He chooses instead to lead this team by example. Maybe someday the rest will follow.

That is one excellent post concerning "style over substance". It's why I have little respect for the GG Award anymore because of the criteria they use to award it. And may I add to that ESPN's HR Derby. I never watch it. I think it's a farce.

And look at what WK signed Harang for. ;)

bucksfan2
09-19-2007, 08:25 AM
Harang has finally gotten some notice after a very very good year last year. His problem is that he isn't flashy, doesn't have over powering heat, doesn't have mental meltdowns on the mound, and lastly he plays in cincinnati. If he played in a big market city and put up the same kind of stats he would be a cy young winner. Instead he plays in cincinnati where players are more enamored with Freel flying into walls that a pitcher who pitches well every night.

RedsBaron
09-19-2007, 09:14 AM
Harang seems to simply be a quiet guy who does his job very effectively. He isn't even as outgoing as Arroyo. If Aaron had more of Bronson's personality, he would probably get more notice.

Johnny Footstool
09-19-2007, 10:37 AM
This is the era of style over substance.
This is the era of flash over consistency.
This is the era of image over reality.

Brandon Webb won the NL Cy Young award last year.

He doesn't play in a huge market, doesn't play for a playoff team, doesn't play guitar, wear funny hats, or throw tantrums on the mound. He simply pitches and pitches well. Harang does, too.

Granted, Aaron Harang is criminally overlooked by the media, but I don't think you can use that fact as an indictment of "Today's Game" or declare that we're in an era of style over substance.

VR
09-19-2007, 02:03 PM
Very good article on the game.

The good news is Zamrano's flash essentially cost the Cubs a contract 55M more than Harang's...and only one year more. (5 vs 4)




Harang again gets better of Cubs ace Zambrano

By C. Trent Rosecrans
Post staff reporter






Carlos Zambrano and the Chicago Cubs are 0-4 against Reds ace Aaron Harang this season.






CHICAGO - Cubs starter Carlos Zambrano may be the highest paid starter in the National League Central, but that doesn't mean he's the best.

The Cubs ace, who recently signed a $90 million contract extension, is flashy, loud and recognized around baseball as one of the best right-handers in the game. In short, he's everything the Reds' Aaron Harang isn't, even though this season he's shown he's anything but Harang's equal.

For the fourth time this season, Harang and Zambrano matched up on the mound and for the fourth time, the Reds came away winners, beating the Cubs 5-2 on Tuesday night at Wrigley Field in front of 40,801, and holding off mathematical elimination for another day.

With the Reds win and a Milwaukee victory in Houston, the Cubs fell into a tie in the National League Central.

"We're not going to roll over and let anyone in, we're going to make it interesting," said Harang, who improved to 16-4 on the season. "That's part of the game, you can't roll over. We're going to play the rest of our games tough this year."

Any night with Harang on the mound, teams know they're in for a fight. He's quietly become one of the elite pitchers in baseball, even if the rest of the baseball world hasn't noticed.

Harang is tied for second in the NL in victories, second in strikeouts (198), second in innings pitch (216 2/3), and tied for first in winning percentage among starters with 10 or more victories (the Dodgers' Brad Penny is also 16-4).

"Everyone wants to say Jake Peavy should walk away with (the Cy Young Award)," said Reds closer David Weathers, who stumped for Harang after Tuesday night's victory. "Set the numbers out there. You give me one guy for one start, I can't name anyone else in this league I'll take over him. I say that not because he's my teammate, because he's a stinkin' horse. We lean on him, 100, 110, 125 pitches and he delivers."

Overall this season the Reds have a .457 winning percentage. When Harang pitches, Cincinnati wins three-quarters of the time.

San Diego's Peavy is the front-runner for the Cy Young Award. Peavy is 18-6 with a 2.39 ERA and a league-best 225 strikeouts. However, Peavy works in a pitcher's heaven in San Diego, while Harang's home park is the hitter-friendly Great American Ball Park.

"He's our guy. I'd love to see him considered at the top of the list. We do," Reds interim manager Pete Mackanin said of Harang. "The thing that's a pleasure to be around, even when he's pitching because he doesn't get overly excited. He's totally into the game, but relaxed. He knows what he has to do, and when he's not doing, he knows what he's not doing. I think it's great for the other pitchers to see him and how he reacts during the course of the game, calm, cool and collected. That's the kind of guy you like."

Harang is pretty much the opposite of the easily excitable Zambrano, who has blown up in several of his appearances against the Reds this season. Zambrano wasn't at his best or worst Tuesday with the Cubs trying to hold onto first place. He allowed two runs in the first inning on RBI singles by Brandon Phillips and Edwin Encarnacion.

The Reds scored again in the second as catcher Javier Valentin doubled to lead off the inning and scored on center fielder Norris Hopper's single. Encarnacion hit a solo home run in the sixth inning, which was followed by a single by first baseman Joey Votto, which ended Zambrano's night. He gave up seven hits and four runs in 5 1/3 innings, walking three, hitting a batter and striking out one.

Harang, Zambrano's foil, didn't allow a hit until the fourth inning when he gave up three and the Cubs scored two runs. He then allowed one hit in each in his next three innings of work, but only one runner reached as much as second. Harang finished with seven innings pitched, six hits, two runs, two walks and six strikeouts.

"They're an aggressive hitting team. They've got some guys who work the count and some power guys," Harang said. "You just have to keep guys off base in front of (Derrek) Lee, (Aramis) Ramirez and those guys. You go out try to throw strikes and keep it down in the zone because in this ballpark, the ball can fly out of here just as much as it can at Great American."

That wasn't a problem Tuesday, as right-hander Jared Burton pitched a perfect eighth inning and Weathers bounced back from his blown save the night before by allowing a leadoff hit to Monday's hero, Mark DeRosa, but nothing else, finishing the game by striking out pinch hitter Cliff Floyd looking at a pitch on the inside corner.

"That's my favorite parts about relieving," Weathers said. "You can go out there and stink like I did last night and come back the next night and redeem yourself."

If there's anyone who doesn't need redemption, it's Harang, who matched his career-high in victories and is closing in on career-bests in innings pitched (234 1/3) and strikeouts (216). Last season Harang because the first pitcher in the 50-year history of the Cy Young Award to lead the league in victories and strikeouts and not win the award. Not only that, he didn't receive a single vote.

His teammates don't want to see a repeat of that, and that's perhaps one of the reasons Weathers stumped for Harang after Tuesday's game.

"Everyone says it's a walk-away. You've got to show me more evidence than what I've seen," said Weathers. "This guy deserves to be in the top two or three, and if he's not they need to take some votes away from guys who obviously don't know the game of baseball."

RFS62
09-19-2007, 03:24 PM
Killer post, Atomic dumpling

Sea Ray
09-19-2007, 03:47 PM
I think Zambrano had better plead with his manager to no longer pitch him vs Harang. Think what his record would be this year if he could throw out the games vs Harang?

Chip R
09-19-2007, 04:35 PM
Brandon Webb won the NL Cy Young award last year.

He doesn't play in a huge market, doesn't play for a playoff team, doesn't play guitar, wear funny hats, or throw tantrums on the mound. He simply pitches and pitches well. Harang does, too.

Granted, Aaron Harang is criminally overlooked by the media, but I don't think you can use that fact as an indictment of "Today's Game" or declare that we're in an era of style over substance.


Great points, Johnny. So why doesn't Aaron get more love?

TeamBoone
09-19-2007, 04:40 PM
In addition to the great post by AD, the newspaper article was also excellent. Props to Weathers for speaking out.