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Matt700wlw
09-19-2007, 05:59 PM
Brass don't agree on protest

By C. Trent Rosecrans
Post staff reporter



CHICAGO - Reds interim manager Pete Mackanin is ready to let Monday's protest go, but general manager Wayne Krivsky is not.

Mackanin said he read home plate umpire Rick Reed's explanation that although the rulebook does not say a manager can call a double switch from anywhere on his first mound visit of an inning, it does say that in the umpire's manual, a different book that elaborates on rule interpretations.

"I'm sure if that's what it says in their interpretation, he's right," Mackanin said. "It didn't really affect the game."

Krivsky, on the other hand, was gruff when asked if the protest had been rescinded, like Mackanin said he hoped it had.

"Pete filed it on the field and I followed it up," Krivsky said. "It's out of Pete's hands and out of my hands."

Krivsky said the matter is now up to the league office after he officially filed it with the league office on Tuesday.

An apparently agitated Krivsky was asked about Mackanin's comments and dismissed them.

"How do you know it didn't have an affect on the game?" Krivsky said.

Cubs manager Lou Piniella called for a double switch in the sixth inning of Monday's game, inserting Scott Eyre into the game and replaced starting catcher Jason Kendall with Geovany Soto. Eyre gave up two hits, allowing a run and Soto was 0-for-2 after entering the game.

Mackanin said usually when a manager tries to protest a game, an umpire will attempt to talk him out of it if the umpire is sure of his interpretation. Mackanin said Reed didn't try to talk him out of protesting the game.

Reed told a pool reporter he went to look it up in the umpire's manual to make sure he was correct, and he believed he was.

"Why don't they put that in our manual instead of just theirs?" Mackanin said.

harangatang
09-19-2007, 07:02 PM
Is it just me or is Wayne a crybaby? I don't know if I've ever seen a GM do something like this and then the whole suit against Washington.

RedsManRick
09-19-2007, 07:08 PM
He just seems a tad uptight to me. I don't know about crybaby.

George Anderson
09-19-2007, 07:09 PM
Is it just me or is Wayne a crybaby? I don't know if I've ever seen a GM do something like this and then the whole suit against Washington.

I dont see him as a crybaby anymore than I see managers like Bobby Cox or Lou Pinella who gripe or moan about any little thing that doesn't go there way. I would rather have a GM who stands up for his team over things that may seem petty as opposed to standing back and not seeming to care.

KronoRed
09-19-2007, 07:19 PM
Is it really that important?

IslandRed
09-19-2007, 09:00 PM
Is it really that important?

It's a chance to mess with the Cubs, isn't it? Good enough for me.

Team Clark
09-19-2007, 10:05 PM
It's a chance to mess with the Cubs, isn't it? Good enough for me.

Every game counts!

REDREAD
09-19-2007, 11:01 PM
Like I said in the game thread, I think it's kind of petty for the Reds to file a protest against this.

I admire Pete for backing down, and seeing the umps point of view.

Wayne does look like a whiner. I bet there's never been a protest upheld over something as trivial as this..
So Lou walked a couple extra steps before telling the ump about the double switch.. so what?

And others claim that Lou or Cox would do the same thing, but I challenge them to find an example of filing a protest over something so trivial.

George Anderson
09-20-2007, 12:02 AM
And others claim that Lou or Cox would do the same thing, but I challenge them to find an example of filing a protest over something so trivial.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dial P for protest
10/07/2004 6:38 PM ET
By Joe Frisaro / MLB.com

ATLANTA -- Confusion at a critical moment over a malfunction to the phone system in the Astros bullpen caused the Braves to play Game 2 of the Division Series under protest.
The controversy occurred in the bottom of the seventh inning after Atlanta's Rafael Furcal delivered an RBI single off Astros starter Roy Oswalt. The hit made the score 2-1 in favor of the Astros.

At that point, Astros manager Phil Garner informed crew chief and third base umpire Joe Brinkman that the phone system in their dugout was not operating to the bullpen.

For several minutes the umpires discussed the situation, consulting with Atlanta manager Bobby Cox.



When play resumed, the Astros made a pitching change, bringing in reliever Brad Lidge.

The Braves filed the protest, contending the Astros were delaying the game. It all became moot because the Braves rallied to win, 4-2, in 11 innings.

"It doesn't make any difference now, we won the ballgame," Cox said. "I don't even know if a protest like that could hold up. But it just seemed strange to our dugout that Lidge normally pitches the ninth, or sometimes the eighth and ninth, and sometimes in the seventh, I guess. We didn't think he was warmed up. But they could have had some type of communication problem. But the phone was working. Absolutely, 100 percent. It's irrelevant now and doesn't matter."

According to baseball rule 4.19, a protest must be filed in a timely matter and an umpire must recognize the protest before the next pitch is made. MLB vice president of on-field operations Bob Watson, who was in attendance at the game, explained afterward that you can only protest an interpretation of a rule.

With that in mind, the protest would, in all likelihood, have been dismissed.

Garner understands how the Braves felt there was a delay, but the Astros manager said the phones were down.

"I kept trying the phone several times," Garner said. "I can honestly see how [Cox] can feel that way. I had no alternative. I think this is too grand a stage to try to pull a stunt like that. I feel certain [Lidge] was ready at the time I wanted him, but we had called several times within the course of a minute and we couldn't get anybody. It was busy. We couldn't get anybody to answer the phone. And not until our bullpen coach, Mark Bailey, picked up the phone, did it work back at our phone. It seemed to work."

Along with Lidge, left-hander Mike Gallo was up and throwing.

"I was warming up and so was Lidge," Gallo said. "We were both ready to go. We picked up the phone and it's not working. We heard a ring, picked it up, nothing there. I was ready to go and I tried to call them [in the dugout], and it wasn't working. Then all of a sudden, the Braves equipment guy came down and said, 'The phone's not working?' We're like, 'No, it's not working.'

"It probably looked like they were stalling for time, but we were calling down to the dugout and it wasn't working. Lidge was ready to go in anyway. He was ready to go in. It wasn't like we were trying to get extra time for anything. I understand if we had just gotten up or something, but we had been throwing."

As the inning played out, the Braves stranded Furcal at third base when the Atlanta shortstop was tagged out at home trying to score on what would have been a wild pitch.

Representing the tying run, Lidge's pitch to J.D. Drew bounced and skipped a few feet away from catcher Raul Chavez.

Furcal hesitated and then sprinted home, but Chavez's flip to Lidge at the plate was in plenty of time for the easy tag out.

This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

Ltlabner
09-20-2007, 07:57 AM
Geez, Wayne makes a move to defend his team and people rush to crap on it.

If he let it go we'd be listening to how he needs to grow a pair, and stand up for his team.

camisadelgolf
09-20-2007, 08:15 AM
I'm still waiting to hear on that grievance about Majewski.

redsmetz
09-20-2007, 09:00 AM
Once again, I think this is much ado about nothing. I swear these Reds beat writers just seem to want to find any little thing to spread acrimony (and that includes the RZ revered CTR who started this one).

Mac is probably right that the appeal will be to no avail, but it's been filed and as Krivsky noted, it just needs to play its course.

On the side note about Majewski, I do wonder when the heck MLB will hand down a decision. I think it was right of the Reds to file it, but, sheesh, finish it up!

GAC
09-20-2007, 09:03 AM
Brass don't agree on protest

By C. Trent Rosecrans
Post staff reporter



Mackanin said. "It didn't really affect the game."

And that is how the league is going to see it, and the protest will be for naught. But I had no problem with them filing it at the time.

GAC
09-20-2007, 01:20 PM
Protest denied by MLB brass.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070920&content_id=2219939&vkey=pr_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Major League Baseball announced today that President and Chief Operating Officer Bob DuPuy has denied the formal protest filed by the Cincinnati Reds regarding their Monday, Sept. 17th game against the Chicago Cubs at Wrigley Field.

Team Clark
09-20-2007, 01:32 PM
Protest denied by MLB brass.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070920&content_id=2219939&vkey=pr_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Major League Baseball announced today that President and Chief Operating Officer Bob DuPuy has denied the formal protest filed by the Cincinnati Reds regarding their Monday, Sept. 17th game against the Chicago Cubs at Wrigley Field.

Bummer. :thumbdown Before I die I want to see a protest upheld.

I did see Don Zimmer get ejected AND STILL win his argument. Only time I have personally seen a manager get a call reversed other than a home run. The game was at Riverfront. Ryne Sandberg ran into the 3B (Buddy Bell?) and screwed up the play. Sandberg was called out and Zimmer went insane. As a young kid I was going crazy too. Eventually they agreed that Sandberg had every right to his running lane and the 3B ran into Sandberg.

gonelong
09-20-2007, 02:15 PM
This is just a inkling of one of the organizations larger problems. Nobody seems to be on the same page about anything. The front office is out of synch with the guys on the field, thier minor league operations, etc.

The Reds wagon has been stuck in the mud for a few years now despite all the guys that have been pulling on the ropes to try and free it. What we seem to have is 1/2 our guys up front pulling, and have our guys behind pulling the other way. Everybody is doing their best individually, but the net results are no change in status.

It'd be nice to see some indication of the organization all pulling in the same direction.

GL

Roy Tucker
09-20-2007, 03:01 PM
Bummer. :thumbdown Before I die I want to see a protest upheld.



It does happen, but not often. Looks like the last time was 1986. And then there is also the George Brett pine tar thing.

http://www.retrosheet.org/protests.htm

traderumor
09-21-2007, 12:49 PM
This is just a inkling of one of the organizations larger problems. Nobody seems to be on the same page about anything. The front office is out of synch with the guys on the field, thier minor league operations, etc.

The Reds wagon has been stuck in the mud for a few years now despite all the guys that have been pulling on the ropes to try and free it. What we seem to have is 1/2 our guys up front pulling, and have our guys behind pulling the other way. Everybody is doing their best individually, but the net results are no change in status.

It'd be nice to see some indication of the organization all pulling in the same direction.

GL

That is an awful lot to project out of Wayne saying "let's go forward" while Mackanin seemed to buy the umpire's subsequent explanation.

Nothing new to RZ, but geez, if there is apparent groupspeak going on, then there would be outrage over that. But then, I did hear a speaker the other day say for every decision, there is a contrary criticism.

Team Clark
09-21-2007, 12:53 PM
It does happen, but not often. Looks like the last time was 1986. And then there is also the George Brett pine tar thing.

http://www.retrosheet.org/protests.htm

Thanks for the link. Good stuff!! :thumbup:

Ltlabner
09-21-2007, 01:18 PM
So now a boss dissagreeing with the assement of one of his managers is a sign of orginizational dissaray and why the team has failed over the past 7 years?

GAC
09-21-2007, 04:45 PM
So now a boss dissagreeing with the assement of one of his managers is a sign of orginizational dissaray and why the team has failed over the past 7 years?

How and heck does Steinbrenner and the Yanks do it? :lol:

gonelong
09-22-2007, 12:03 AM
That is an awful lot to project out of Wayne saying "let's go forward" while Mackanin seemed to buy the umpire's subsequent explanation.

The Reds haven't been real adept at getting everyone to pull in the same direction for quite a few years, its not a projection of their comments, its an observation over quite a few years. This is just another example of 2 guys not being on the same page about something. Small, sure, but not on the same page nonetheless.


Nothing new to RZ, but geez, if there is apparent groupspeak going on, then there would be outrage over that. But then, I did hear a speaker the other day say for every decision, there is a contrary criticism.

I wouldn't be outraged, I'd be overjoyed to see the organization have some sort of unified plan.

GL