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fearofpopvol1
09-21-2007, 01:35 AM
Did anyone else watch? I say watch because I'm not sure that the radio would depict just how impressive he looked.

His line from tonight...

5.2 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 1BB, 3Ks

I can honestly say that he looked leaps and bounds better than any of his other performances I've seen this season (and I saw most of them). He started off (especially in the 1st inning) relying a lot on the fastball, but by the 2nd inning he was mixing in the off speed stuff very frequently and he was throwing it for strikes consistently (he threw 80 pitches tonight and 51 were for strikes). I still like the fact that he's pitched over 28 innings in the majors and has only given up 2 HR's (and many of those starts were at GAB).

I've been as skeptical and critical about Bailey as any, but tonight was definitely encouraging. He still has a ways to go and hopefully he works hard in the offseason going into next year, but the kid is 20 and has time to imrpove. I really do think he has a high ceiling. Hopefully he lives up to the hype. Time will tell.

GAC
09-21-2007, 04:38 AM
I nominate the following adjective to be added to Redszone's list, along side "veteran presence", "he plays the game the right way", and "does the little things"

"He looked pitcher-ish," interim manager Pete Mackanin said.

:lol:

Team Clark
09-21-2007, 07:59 AM
I nominate the following adjective to be added to Redszone's list, along side "veteran presence", "he plays the game the right way", and "does the little things"

"He looked pitcher-ish," interim manager Pete Mackanin said.

:lol:

I'll second "Pitcher-ish". Not sure I will ever use it....

Bailey looked clean with his delivery. KUDOS to Tom Brown is Sarasota for getting Bailey smoothed out. He looked a lot better. Still having a little difficulty with the landing portion of his delivery but it's close enough.

membengal
09-21-2007, 08:16 AM
A little more from Mackanin:


""We thought it was important to get him out on a positive note and not overextend him."

Well, finally. Thank the baseball deities. I know I wasn't the only one begging for similar viewpoints from Jerry Narron in Bailey's first go-round, only to be left wondering whether Narron's elevator went all the way to the top.

Thank you, Pete Mackanin, for understanding basics.

The more I have seen from Mackanin, by and large, the more I have liked...

nate
09-21-2007, 08:17 AM
His curveball was working a lot better for him last night. Maybe not as much break as it had before, but a lot more control. I think the last double he gave up was on a curve up in the zone but he also had a few that really fooled the batters.

Granted, not the Giants' greatest lineup out there but an encouraging outing from Homer.

RedsManRick
09-21-2007, 08:44 AM
Definitely did a much better job of locating his curve. He's still got a little trouble with his fastball. He started the game with 3 fastballs, trying to hit the outside corner, and missed twice.

I still think he's a bit volatile mentally. He reminds me of Zambrano out there. Always ticked off at something. He was NOT happy about getting pulled in the 6th.

In any case, it was promising if nothing else. With that kind of stuff, it's going to be very hard to keep him out of the rotation next year.

lollipopcurve
09-21-2007, 08:48 AM
His curveball was working a lot better for him last night. Maybe not as much break as it had before, but a lot more control. I think the last double he gave up was on a curve up in the zone but he also had a few that really fooled the batters.

Definitely. He was much better with the curveball -- better control of it, less loop/hang. And he seemed to be able to vary it some -- they were mostly in the high 70s, but I did see a 71. Got several called strikes with it and some swings and misses. He was changing speeds with the fastball pretty nicely, too, from 90-91 to 93-95. Once he gets better command of the fastball -- he's not bad now, but there's room for improvement -- he's going to be tough. Not sure what that pitch is he's throwing in the mid/high 80s -- the SF crew said the Reds were trying to teach him a cutter -- it didn't look to me like the changeup he showed earlier in the year, but it didn't really look like a cutter either. Whatever it was, it'll be interesting to see how it develops -- it didn't really help him last night.

An encouraging outing -- not a great lineup, but they didn't swing at much out of the zone. They made him through strikes, and he did that. Credit the organization with getting him healthy and ready to pitch -- and pitch better than before.

oneupper
09-21-2007, 08:51 AM
Fine performance by Bailey. Unfortunately the Giants he faced last night were a AAA team. Not to say that the ML hitters would have roughed him up (we don't know that they would or wouldn't), but you have to think that guys like Vizquel and Bonds may have messed with his head a bit.

I think he'll be fine. Sure looks better than some of the guys we've been throwing out there. Good job by Mac in pulling him early.

Danny Serafini
09-21-2007, 09:00 AM
It was very encouraging the way he was able to mix in the offspeed stuff, I was happy with his performance. I hated the way he got yanked though. He was cruising along, mows down 15 straight, gives up a hit and gets pulled. Mackanin talked about getting him out on a positive note, but he did the exact opposite. What he seemed to say was "I don't trust you to strand that runner", even though he was pitching well. I don't have a problem with giving him a short night, he didn't need to throw 110 pitches, but he should've been allowed to finish the inning.

bucksfan2
09-21-2007, 09:06 AM
I only was able to watch the first inning. But what I saw I was very impressed. He threw free and easy. His fastball had some life on it so that was good. How many more starts will he get this year, 2-3? These starts could be big for next years development.

Benihana
09-21-2007, 09:56 AM
Aronchis! Paging Aronchis!

RedsManRick
09-21-2007, 10:03 AM
Good job by Mac in pulling him early.

I want to second that. If things had gone south for him in the 6th with two outs, it could have been quite discouraging. Instead he cashed in the successful outing and kept his pitch count low. Good job Mack!

nate
09-21-2007, 11:00 AM
I still think he's a bit volatile mentally. He reminds me of Zambrano out there. Always ticked off at something. He was NOT happy about getting pulled in the 6th.

I watched pretty closely when he was pulled to see his reaction. I thought he just walked into the dugout and grabbed a seat. What did you see that made you think he was more unhappy than any pitcher who gets pulled from a game?

Granted that was after a couple four glasses of wine and a nap in the 4th inning.

traderumor
09-21-2007, 11:36 AM
Fine performance by Bailey. Unfortunately the Giants he faced last night were a AAA team. Not to say that the ML hitters would have roughed him up (we don't know that they would or wouldn't), but you have to think that guys like Vizquel and Bonds may have messed with his head a bit.

I think he'll be fine. Sure looks better than some of the guys we've been throwing out there. Good job by Mac in pulling him early.

The Giants have a weak offense in a pitcher's ballpark (even with Bonds), so that would qualify any pitcher's start against them. I only was able to watch the first inning, but I did notice the pop was back on the fastball.

Mike Krukow mentioned on the Giants broadcast that the Reds were trying to trim down the 12/6 curveball because of the contol issues. I say if he can, let him use both, and use the 12/6 to put in the dirt for a chase pitch ala Ben Sheets.

M2
09-21-2007, 12:00 PM
The challenge that all pitchers face, not just Bailey, is maintaining stuff and command on a regular work schedule. Fatigue is a monster that can swallow you whole.

So it's not a matter of keeping your head above water in one outing. Frankly, I don't think last night told us anything about Bailey we didn't already know. Where he's going to need to make strides is in making consistent quality pitches start after start, week after week, month after month.

Last night's main function seems to have been giving the kid a much needed confidence boost. The next start at home against the Astros is going to be more challenging. Yet what Bailey really needs to learn, the skill he most needs to hone, is going to have to wait until next season.

fearofpopvol1
09-21-2007, 12:10 PM
I watched pretty closely when he was pulled to see his reaction. I thought he just walked into the dugout and grabbed a seat. What did you see that made you think he was more unhappy than any pitcher who gets pulled from a game?

Granted that was after a couple four glasses of wine and a nap in the 4th inning.

He was definitely mad that he was pulled. He had a look on this face and his body language indicated so.

JaxRed
09-21-2007, 12:12 PM
I watched the game and saw absolutely no indication that he was upset with being pulled.

Chip R
09-21-2007, 12:23 PM
Anybody think Homer would have been upset if Mackanin had left him in and he gave up the tying run costing him a win?

A true competitor isn't going to be happy leaving the game early. M2's got it. It's a confidence boost. He's proving he's healthy and can pitch well - albiet against a AAAA lineup. If he's wanting instruction on that curve, if I were him, I'd talk to Tom Shearn.

fearofpopvol1
09-21-2007, 12:52 PM
I watched the game and saw absolutely no indication that he was upset with being pulled.

Was it the Giants telecast you watched or the Reds? I saw the Giants one. He didn't look upset on the mound, it was after he was walking away from the mound. Even the Giants commentators made a comment how he was noticably upset being pulled.

BCubb2003
09-21-2007, 01:04 PM
I think it was Voltaire who said, "I'd rather people wonder, 'Why isn't there a statue of him in the square?' than to ask, 'Why is there a statute of him in the square?"

LoganBuck
09-21-2007, 01:30 PM
What I really liked was his ability to change speed. I was watching the FSN Cincinnati, and the gun showed the fastball from 91-94 fairly often with 95 and 96 thrown in pretty regularly, as well as a couple 97s and at least one 98, I thought I saw 98 one other time as well. On one particular sequence he threw 96, 91, 76 which resulted in a weak grounder. I was much happier with the release point, and his follow through. There were a couple of balls hit very hard that found leather though, that were mistake pitches. The ball that Dunn made the nice catch against the wall, was a fine bit of hitting, the pitch was down, and whoever hit it went down and got it, 9 out of 10 times they stir the air.

traderumor
09-21-2007, 02:29 PM
FWIW, whether Homer did or didn't scowl, I think a jump that compares such actions to Zambrano's antics is a bit of flying leap.

Roy Tucker
09-21-2007, 02:39 PM
I thought I noticed Homer talking to himself coming off the mound at the end of some innings.

Maybe Farney has changed addresses.

GAC
09-21-2007, 03:43 PM
I thought I noticed Homer talking to himself coming off the mound at the end of some innings.

Maybe Farney has changed addresses.

George Constanza maybe?....

"HOMER'S GETTING ANGRY!!!"

RedsManRick
09-21-2007, 04:38 PM
Was it the Giants telecast you watched or the Reds? I saw the Giants one. He didn't look upset on the mound, it was after he was walking away from the mound. Even the Giants commentators made a comment how he was noticably upset being pulled.

Yup, on the Giants feed, he threw a mini hissy-fit as walked off the mound -- clenched his fists and stomped a bit. Nothing for us to get too worked up over, but he clearly was not happy about being pulled.

I do think he's bit of a hot-head. An anti-Arroyo of sorts. Though that might not be a bad thing.

lollipopcurve
09-21-2007, 04:55 PM
Yup, on the Giants feed, he threw a mini hissy-fit as walked off the mound -- clenched his fists and stomped a bit. Nothing for us to get too worked up over, but he clearly was not happy about being pulled.

I do think he's bit of a hot-head. An anti-Arroyo of sorts. Though that might not be a bad thing.

I really think this was a non-issue -- he's a competitive kid (how about him advancing to 3rd on the wild pitch?!) who wants to be out there. I see it more as a positive than a negative.

OnBaseMachine
09-21-2007, 06:24 PM
Is there a pitcher in baseball who is happy with being pulled? And if there is, I probably don't want him on my team.

As for Homer, very good outing from him last night. I was very impressed with his stuff and command last night. He snapped off some great curveballs. This has got to be a huge confidence boost to him. Hopefully he can repeat that performance in his next start vs the Astros next week.

KronoRed
09-22-2007, 12:57 AM
I do think he's bit of a hot-head. An anti-Arroyo of sorts. Though that might not be a bad thing.

Depends on how far he takes it, going to the press and telling everyone you're the best and the bullpen stinks would be an extreme case ;)

membengal
09-22-2007, 11:20 AM
So we're back to trying to read facial expressions? Seriously? I thought we had all agreed that was pretty much a meaningless exercise.

As for his actual performance, nothing but positives, both in his approach, and in Mackanin's retrieving him so he could leave on a successful note.

This team's chance to get back to .500 next year will hinge, in some measure, on Bailey being able to be a back end starter in the rotation coming out of spring training. That start the other night, and hopefully a good start next week, may be a small step in that direction...

Tony Cloninger
09-22-2007, 05:03 PM
I know i always hated when Bob Gibson would get mad when he was pulled.....what arrogance.....who did he think he was...caring about wanting to pitch and win.