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View Full Version : Rule V: Burton vs. Hamilton



Screwball
09-25-2007, 03:00 PM
These were two excellent pickups via the Rule V draft. Krivsky and his scouts have received plenty of accolades, and they are well deserved.

However, I want to know who you think was more valuable to the team in 2007, and who you think will be more valuable as this team moves forward to (hopefully) a serious contender for NL pennant.

Their stats...

Hamilton: 90 G, 298 AB, .292/.368/.554/.922; 19 HR, 47 RBI, 52 Runs, 7.3 RC/9

Burton: 4-1, 46 G, 42 IP, 2.36 ERA, 1.143 WHIP, 7.50 K/9, 4.71 BB/9, 1.59 K/BB, put out the flames in the 8th inning

Degenerate39
09-25-2007, 03:23 PM
It's close. Hamilton brings a good bat and a strong arm in the outfield but Burton does well in the 8th inning where the Reds have struggled.

durl
09-25-2007, 03:29 PM
I agree that it's been close. My gut feeling is that Burton would have to get the nod from me because he fulfilled a much bigger need for this team: good middle-late relief. Hamilton has been nothing short of amazing, though. It's a tough choice.

GoReds33
09-25-2007, 03:38 PM
I say Burton. Hamilton was great, but without Burton this pen would have been a mess these last three months.

AmarilloRed
09-25-2007, 03:40 PM
I think Burton would get it for now because of Hamilton's injury problems. Both of them have been outstanding though.

bounty37h
09-25-2007, 03:44 PM
Burton gets my vote as well, as much as I dig Hammy. Burton has been a bright spot where we needed it, while Josh has been a star among stars, not to mention his injuries. This is not to downplay his role and our need for him however.

podgejeff_
09-25-2007, 04:01 PM
Burton gets the vote because he fills the bigger need for this team in bullpen help.

The Reds have a loaded outfield, though. Between the two I think Hamilton has the greater ceiling and would probably have the most value of the two. Either way, both are great to have and hats off to Krivsky for picking them up.

redsupport
09-25-2007, 04:43 PM
Burton by far, outfielders are a dime a dozen

GoReds33
09-25-2007, 05:05 PM
Burton by far, outfielders are a dime a dozen.... for this team. Don't think that Hamilton doesn't have extreme value for other teams.:)

RedsMightWin
09-25-2007, 05:14 PM
If only Burtons 1st half was better.

Degenerate39
09-25-2007, 05:49 PM
Interesting article about the same subject


Quick Reds question: Who's the more valuable Rule 5 pickup?

Is it Josh Hamilton with his 19 homers, 47 RBI and .292 average, or Jared Button, with his 4-1 record and 2.36 ERA?

That would have been an easy call during the first half of the season.


But Burton has had as much to do with the Reds' second-half turnaround as anyone.

The eighth inning was a horror story for the Reds before Burton emerged. Now it is the open-and-shut inning. Burton, a 26-year-old right-hander, has a 1.07 ERA over his last 26 games.

"He started having some success, and he just got more confident," Reds manager Pete Mackanin said. "It just keeps building with each outing. Now, we expect it."

Burton is a big guy - 6-foot-5, 230 pounds - with a big arm. He throws 94 mph with a slider that tops out at 89 or so. That's made him a confident guy.

"I'm not surprised at all," Burton said of his success. "You work hard to get the opportunity like this. I was thankful this winter to have an opportunity to come over here and have a chance. I finally got some opportunities after the All-Star break. I took advantage of it."

Burton was picked in the Rule 5 draft from Oakland. He had an excellent spring. His stuff was good enough that the Reds were willing to keep him on the roster, even if he wasn't going to pitch very often.

And he didn't pitch much early. Part of that was two stints on the disabled list with back and hamstring problems. Part of it was manager Jerry Narron wasn't very confident in Burton.

That's understandable. Burton wasn't very confident in himself. He walked seven in 82/3 innings in the first half.

"The nerves were there at the beginning of the year," Burton said. "But once I was able to get out there and have a couple successful outings it got better and better."

The turning point in Burton's season came on July 12 in New York against the Mets. Mackanin brought him in the ninth inning of a game the Reds were trailing 3-2 with runners on second and third and one out.

Burton got out of it.

"Pete came in and he hadn't seen me pitch," Burton said. "I think that probably gave him a little confidence in me. I continued to do well in those situations."

Burton is throwing the same stuff he did earlier.

"I really don't think there's any difference," Burton said. "We made a minor mechanical adjustment. I really think it was a comfort thing. I was able to trust myself and trust my stuff."

A telling stat is that hitters hit only .200 off Burton before the break, but his ERA was 5.19. Batters are hitting .174 off him after the break, but his ERA is 1.62.

The key? Strikes and lots of them.

"Out of the bullpen, it's like hitting or anything else," he said. "You get in these little grooves. I've been fortunate. I made an adjustment, threw more strikes and forced the action."

Screwball
09-26-2007, 08:34 AM
I agree with everyone who says it was close. They've both been oft-injured (although I think Burton's were more as a tool to get him to "rehab" in the minors), but have been phenomenal when healthy and playing.

However, as good as Burton has been, and as vital as he's been to the team's 8th inning, Josh Hamilton is just a special player that played in more games than Burton, and was an absolute beast from Day 1 when on the field. He had a legitimate shot at ROY (even with Ryan Braun going crazy) had he been able to stay healthy, and I think we'll see him vie for MVP candidates at some point in the next few years. At any rate though, it's awesome the Reds have both. :thumbup:

Screwball
09-26-2007, 08:35 AM
dbl post

INRedsFan
09-26-2007, 01:50 PM
Not really fair to compare the two because they have two very different roles on the team. I give Hamilton the nod as a five tool player. Josh didn't have much time to prepare for spring training and the regular season after sitting out for several years.

I hope both are part of the Reds organization next year.

Moosie52
09-26-2007, 02:43 PM
It's a win-win situation.:beerme:

Degenerate39
09-26-2007, 03:12 PM
I had to vote for Hamilton not because of what he's done on the field but what he's done off the field. He got off drugs and showed people that everyone can change. But what's done on the field has helped too

bounty37h
09-26-2007, 04:58 PM
Burton by far, outfielders are a dime a dozen

Then why the heck is Dunn making so much ;) Not a complaint post by any means, he had a heck of a year, but everyone says you cant replace his output for that kind of money..

Krawhitham
09-26-2007, 09:34 PM
this season Burton has been more valuable, but Josh will be more so in the long run

GoReds33
09-26-2007, 09:35 PM
It's a win-win situation.:beerme:Well said. You can't go wrong if you pick either of these players.:beerme:

Screwball
09-28-2007, 04:51 PM
shameless bump. :cool: