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View Full Version : Dontrelle Willis anyone?



ChatterRed
09-26-2007, 03:42 PM
Lance was talking about it on his show. He's up for arbitration but has an era over 5.00. Marlins take some good prospects for him. We rent him for a year?

RedsMightWin
09-26-2007, 03:45 PM
Yes depending on what they ask for in return. I might be willing to part with a couple of our young lower minor level prospects.

Boston Red
09-26-2007, 04:34 PM
Rough year for the D-Train this year, although I LOVED that he stepped up big against the Cubbies yesterday. I'd love to have him on the team, but he would be a heckuva risk for a team like the Reds.

RedsMightWin
09-26-2007, 05:34 PM
Rough year for the D-Train this year, although I LOVED that he stepped up big against the Cubbies yesterday. I'd love to have him on the team, but he would be a heckuva risk for a team like the Reds.

I dont know how much of a risk it is when you consider at worst he is still better than most of our other options, and at best hes as good as they get. Its 1 year so if he is bad we can just cut ties and chalk it up as a loss. I really don't see a downside barring what the marlins want in return. A rotation of Harang, Arroyo, Willis, Bailey and who ever the other is looks pretty good for a team with this offense. I dont know if it would work out but imagine if it did. 1 year of 9 million or so isnt going to break our bank honestly. I dont see many other options outside of Schilling that could give us what Willis could.

Also I can only imagine that if he flops he would net us a draft pick(s) from free agency. I am not sure how that all works totally though.

reds44
09-26-2007, 05:54 PM
I would love to have him.

Chris Sabowned
09-26-2007, 06:17 PM
I know the Florida Marlins need a CF, and they like young guys who have a lot of tools. With Hopper hitting well, and Freel coming back next year would it be too much to give up Josh Hamilton for Dontrelle?

Will M
09-26-2007, 08:35 PM
I know the Florida Marlins need a CF, and they like young guys who have a lot of tools. With Hopper hitting well, and Freel coming back next year would it be too much to give up Josh Hamilton for Dontrelle?

yes it would.

The Reds absolutely need to keep the young players who actually produce because they are CHEAP. Griffey or Dunn ( I pick Griffey ) needs to go to make room for Bruce.

RedsMightWin
09-26-2007, 08:36 PM
I dont think the reds can afford to give up their ML ready prospects but I could see some lower level guys getting traded.

SMcGavin
09-26-2007, 08:54 PM
I would love to have him.

Me too. If I was WK I would inquire on him for sure, but I bet the asking price is way too steep. People talking about a couple of lower level minor prospects for Dontrelle, sorry to say but I think that's crazy talk.

RedsMightWin
09-26-2007, 08:57 PM
Me too. If I was WK I would inquire on him for sure, but I bet the asking price is way too steep. People talking about a couple of lower level minor prospects for Dontrelle, sorry to say but I think that's crazy talk.

If the deal was a real possibility I might change my stance on what we should give up. I think Bruce, Bailey and Cueto are off limits so that really narrows it down to what we have to trade.

ChatterRed
09-26-2007, 10:58 PM
I agree that if the price is right I'd take him as a 3rd or 4th starter. You'd have him for one season before he becomes a free agent. If you pay too much for that one season, you cut your losses and move on. Plus, he'll be in a contract year and possibly pitch better.

Natty Redlocks
09-26-2007, 11:04 PM
yes it would.

The Reds absolutely need to keep the young players who actually produce because they are CHEAP. Griffey or Dunn ( I pick Griffey ) needs to go to make room for Bruce.

I disagree. The Reds have an abundance of cheap offense and dire need for pitching, which is scarce. If they want to get someone good, they'll have to give up someone good. They won't get anything for Griffey or Dunn or Gonzalez or Freel; if the Marlins are intrigued enough by Hamilton's upside to take the chance that he'll stay healthy and clean, I think the Reds would be better off with three major league starters in the rotation and giving up that all-important fourth lefty power bat in the lineup. I do this trade right now and hope for the best.

ChatterRed
09-26-2007, 11:09 PM
I have mentioned that Hamilton might be our best trade bait. I'm not sure that I wouldn't want more for him, though, than Willis. I think Hamilton has more value than Willis does, at this point, other than Willis being a pitcher. Hamilton won't be arbitration eligible for a few years and comes cheap.

My gut feeling is that Hamilton is going to be one of those chronically injured players and I have nothing to base that on but a feeling I have.

If we sign Dunn and plan on bringing up Bruce, I think Hamilton may be the best trade bait. Griffey has one more year and isn't worth anything on the trade market.

The only reason I keep Hamilton is because after Griffey is gone next season, our predominantly left handed lineup will start to become more right handed and we will need Dunn and Hamilton's LH bats to even things out to go with Votto. The other projected starters/key players are RH - Gonzalez, EE, Phillips, Keppinger, Bruce, Hopper

George Foster
09-26-2007, 11:10 PM
They will be standing in line to sign Dontrelle however, I think with a little coaching, if Dontrelle is up to coaching, he can improve that ERA. To my knowledge, he has not had any injuries in his career. I think if the Reds could trade Hopper and a Magic for Dontrelle you do it. Not Hamilton.

jnwohio
09-26-2007, 11:11 PM
I know the Florida Marlins need a CF, and they like young guys who have a lot of tools. With Hopper hitting well, and Freel coming back next year would it be too much to give up Josh Hamilton for Dontrelle?

Agree that yes it would. Sell them on Hopper and maybe include that leftie Maloney the Reds got for Lohse and let them pick another one (or two) mid level prospects

Natty Redlocks
09-26-2007, 11:26 PM
I have mentioned that Hamilton might be our best trade bait. I'm not sure that I wouldn't want more for him, though, than Willis. I think Hamilton has more value than Willis does, at this point, other than Willis being a pitcher. Hamilton won't be arbitration eligible for a few years and comes cheap.

My gut feeling is that Hamilton is going to be one of those chronically injured players and I have nothing to base that on but a feeling I have.

If we sign Dunn and plan on bringing up Bruce, I think Hamilton may be the best trade bait. Griffey has one more year and isn't worth anything on the trade market.

The only reason I keep Hamilton is because after Griffey is gone next season, our predominantly left handed lineup will start to become more right handed and we will need Dunn and Hamilton's LH bats to even things out to go with Votto. The other projected starters/key players are RH - Gonzalez, EE, Phillips, Keppinger, Bruce, Hopper

See, Bruce is a lefty. Assuming they keep Dunn -- and hopefully lock him up for a few years as he is their only reliable, proven, true run producer -- they'll have Dunn, Bruce, and Votto from the left side.

I don't think it's just a "gut feeling" that Hamilton is injury-prone, though -- it was his history before his drug problems and it's been in evidence this year. But he has so much potential he may well be, as you said, the best trade bait the Reds have. But given the market for pitching right now, there's a chance Willis could be the best return they could get for him. Hell, there's a chance the Marlins would turn the offer down flat, depending on what other teams would give them.

jnwohio
09-26-2007, 11:43 PM
See, Bruce is a lefty. Assuming they keep Dunn -- and hopefully lock him up for a few years as he is their only reliable, proven, true run producer -- they'll have Dunn, Bruce, and Votto from the left side.

I don't think it's just a "gut feeling" that Hamilton is injury-prone, though -- it was his history before his drug problems and it's been in evidence this year. But he has so much potential he may well be, as you said, the best trade bait the Reds have. But given the market for pitching right now, there's a chance Willis could be the best return they could get for him. Hell, there's a chance the Marlins would turn the offer down flat, depending on what other teams would give them.


I think Hamilton has too much potential and the Reds too much leverage with his contract status (5 years; 2 more before arb) to trade him at this point for a guy who could be one and gone.

With the Rule 5 limits off of Hamilton, the Reds could even option him next year and put him on a strength and stamina development program including playing time at AAA with an eye toward bringing him back up for 2009.

Bottom line is this guy (Hamilton) is still in the same potential top end category as a Jay Bruce. So, you shouldn't move him for anything less than you would move Bruce for, particularly with Griffey and Dunn both possibly gone after '08.

Old NDN
09-27-2007, 10:53 AM
yes it would.

The Reds absolutely need to keep the young players who actually produce because they are CHEAP. Griffey or Dunn ( I pick Griffey ) needs to go to make room for Bruce.

Agree! Send Griffey home to Florida for Willis. Throw in Magic, Coffey, or a prospect if we have to. The $$ would be close. I like Jr. but he's a constant health risk. Wllis is worth the gamble IMO.

ChatterRed
09-27-2007, 11:48 AM
Agree! Send Griffey home to Florida for Willis. Throw in Magic, Coffey, or a prospect if we have to. The $$ would be close. I like Jr. but he's a constant health risk. Wllis is worth the gamble IMO.


Not trying to be insulting, but finding any team to take Griffey will be nearly impossible.

The ONLY possibility I see is an AL team looking for a LH DH with power. That's about it. And they had better be a contender, otherwise, Junior probably turns the deal down since he has that option.

RedsMightWin
09-27-2007, 03:50 PM
Not trying to be insulting, but finding any team to take Griffey will be nearly impossible.

The ONLY possibility I see is an AL team looking for a LH DH with power. That's about it. And they had better be a contender, otherwise, Junior probably turns the deal down since he has that option.

If the Reds ate a portion of Griffeys contract he will probably be easily moved.

GoReds33
09-27-2007, 03:57 PM
The wrap on Griffey in the past was always that 12.5 million wasn't bad, but the years he had remaining was. Granted they would have to buy out his option year, but still that isn't bad. I think someone would take him without you eating part of his deal. That is unless that team is the Marlins. We all know how they are with money.

RedsMightWin
09-27-2007, 03:59 PM
The wrap on Griffey in the past was always that 12.5 million wasn't bad, but the years he had remaining was. Granted they would have to buy out his option year, but still that isn't bad. I think someone would take him without you eating part of his deal. That is unless that team is the Marlins. We all know how they are with money.

Yea I doubt that the money is going to be an issue to some places but it makes it a whole lot more appealing to other teams.

GoReds33
09-27-2007, 09:45 PM
Yea I doubt that the money is going to be an issue to some places but it makes it a whole lot more appealing to other teams.I wouldn't mind giving up money if we don't have to give up much except Junior.
:)

AmarilloRed
09-28-2007, 12:42 AM
Just to make a point, Dontrelle has a 9 million dollar option. It may be a near even trade as far as money, but I have heard the Marlins want young pitching or a catcher for Willis. And no, I don't think we could trade them David Ross:D

jnwohio
09-29-2007, 11:01 AM
Just to make a point, Dontrelle has a 9 million dollar option. It may be a near even trade as far as money, but I have heard the Marlins want young pitching or a catcher for Willis. And no, I don't think we could trade them David Ross:D


So maybe a package built around Matt Maloney might have a shot. That would be a real coup if they could turn Kyle Lohse into even one year of Dontrelle Willis.

As far as the money for Jr and Dontrelle being simialr for '08, that might be correct but I think the reason Dontrelle is being shopped now as opposed to waiting until the July '08 trade deadline is that the Fish need to move him or Cabrera for budgetary reason prior to the start of the '08 season. So they are looking to shed big payroll if they move him now.

GoReds33
09-29-2007, 11:04 AM
So maybe a package built around Matt Maloney might have a shot. That would be a real coup if they could turn Kyle Lohse into even one year of Dontrelle Willis.
Maybe. I think that Maloney, and Mesorasco could get it done. I don't think I would give up Devin though. I have a two year period after they are drafted that they need to stay in the organization.:)

Jay Bruce
09-30-2007, 01:16 PM
Agree! Send Griffey home to Florida for Willis. Throw in Magic, Coffey, or a prospect if we have to. The $$ would be close. I like Jr. but he's a constant health risk. Wllis is worth the gamble IMO.

The Marlins would not have any interest in a trade centering on Griffey. For Willis, they will want a package of young pitching, and possibly a young CF (or SS if they decide to try Ramirez in CF, since he is a butcher at SS).

As far as trading for Willis, I don't think the Reds are a good fit. Other than 2005 (where he was extremely lucky in the HR/FB%), Willis has been a solid, middle of the rotation type starter. He has a career 4.06 DIPS ERA, in a pitchers park that suppresses Home Runs. The problem is, he already made 6.45 million this season, and has 2 more arbitration years left, where he is going to make too much money for his abilities. Unless we can sign Willis to the same type of deal we got Harang for, I don't want to trade someone like Cueto, and then have to pay Willis a boatload of money over the next two years and watch him leave as a free agent. The Reds aren't going to win by giving up top prospects, and paying market value for #3 starters.