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View Full Version : MacKanin should not be judged by the last 10 games of the season



George Foster
09-28-2007, 01:00 AM
I hope MacKanin, when considered for the job next year, is not judged by the last ten games of the season. Without Griffey, Hamilton, and Dunn in the line up, we all have seen it's hard to win ball games. He started the job 20 games under .500 and should only be judged by the win/loss record before our entire starting outfield was benched due to injuries.

I like the way he handles the games, the line-up, and our bull pen. We can all pick a time when he could of done something different, but compaired to Narron, he is a vast improvment. Narron had a very healthy team the entire 1st half of the season and was 20 games under .500.

LaRussa would cost way to much IMO...sign MacKanin.

AmarilloRed
09-28-2007, 01:05 AM
Unfortunately, he will be judged by all the games he managed, even if he did so at a disadvantage near the end of the year. I would imagine the job is his though, unless LaRussa really likes it.

RedsMightWin
09-28-2007, 06:51 AM
I dont judge the wins or losses so much but I judge the moves he makes during the game. He does some stupid things at times that remind me of Narron way too much.

will5979
09-28-2007, 08:22 AM
Yeah he should...just see the series with the Pirates when the Reds were still in contention back in August. He needs fired, Griffey needs traded, we need new owners, and hopefully 75% new personnel to turn this disaster around.

The Cowboy
09-28-2007, 11:17 AM
Yeah he should...just see the series with the Pirates when the Reds were still in contention back in August. He needs fired, Griffey needs traded, we need new owners, and hopefully 75% new personnel to turn this disaster around.

Good Post! (sarcasm) Do you still think :lindner: is still there?

Screwball
09-28-2007, 11:40 AM
I hope MacKanin, when considered for the job next year, is not judged by the last ten games of the season. Without Griffey, Hamilton, and Dunn in the line up, we all have seen it's hard to win ball games. He started the job 20 games under .500 and should only be judged by the win/loss record before our entire starting outfield was benched due to injuries.


Yep, this is just another example of how right Sparky Anderson was when he said: "Players make the manager. It's never the other way around."

jnwohio
09-28-2007, 08:13 PM
I hope MacKanin, when considered for the job next year, is not judged by the last ten games of the season. Without Griffey, Hamilton, and Dunn in the line up, we all have seen it's hard to win ball games. He started the job 20 games under .500 and should only be judged by the win/loss record before our entire starting outfield was benched due to injuries.

I like the way he handles the games, the line-up, and our bull pen. We can all pick a time when he could of done something different, but compaired to Narron, he is a vast improvment. Narron had a very healthy team the entire 1st half of the season and was 20 games under .500.

LaRussa would cost way to much IMO...sign MacKanin.


In principle I agree with you but I think Pete has shown the pressure he feels a little bit too in this last week. For instance, if Krivsky and Castellini are taking notes he surely did not help himself any Thursday nite when he burned his one big chip off the bench, Phillips, in the 7th and lost him to a 2 out intentional walk.


Speaking of Dunn, it seems to me that the spirit pretty much went out of the club when he went down. Maybe it was just the cumlative effect of the injuries or maybe the big guy brings a quiet leadership and competitive drive he does not get credit for.

steig
09-28-2007, 08:35 PM
Yeah, we need to give the full time job to another interim manager. How did the last interim manager work out, or the one before. I hope they move this team in the right direction and hiring a solid manager is the first step. If they chose to hire MacKanin then we are back in the same situation and I am no longer willing to have hope without some effort by the organization to move this team towards winning. More things need to be done than replacing the manager, but hiring a big time manager sends a message to free agents, the current team, and the league.

Screwball
09-28-2007, 08:48 PM
Yeah, we need to give the full time job to another interim manager. How did the last interim manager work out, or the one before. I hope they move this team in the right direction and hiring a solid manager is the first step. If they chose to hire MacKanin then we are back in the same situation and I am no longer willing to have hope without some effort by the organization to move this team towards winning. More things need to be done than replacing the manager, but hiring a big time manager sends a message to free agents, the current team, and the league.

I hate this argument.

Just because Pete Mackanin is labeled as an interim manager does not equate to him being as bad as the last two. Just as you shouldn't hire a manager based on his 'big name' (Dusty Baker), doesn't mean you shouldn't hire a guy because of his label (Pete Mackanin). The last two ineterim-turned-permanent managers were bad scenarios because a.) they weren't very good, and b.) they didn't have much talent to work with. IMO, Pete makes rational decisions as well as have a good rapport with the players, and he's being given a decent (not great, but not terrible) product to work with.

Should Mackannin be the manager in '08? Not sure. But to simply dismiss him because of Narron and Miley is foolish, and completely unfair to Mackanin himself.

GoReds33
09-28-2007, 10:24 PM
I hate this argument.

Just because Pete Mackanin is labeled as an interim manager does not equate to him being as bad as the last two. Just as you shouldn't hire a manager based on his 'big name' (Dusty Baker), doesn't mean you shouldn't hire a guy because of his label (Pete Mackanin). The last two ineterim-turned-permanent managers were bad scenarios because a.) they weren't very good, and b.) they didn't have much talent to work with. IMO, Pete makes rational decisions as well as have a good rapport with the players, and he's being given a decent (not great, but not terrible) product to work with.

Should Mackannin be the manager in '08? Not sure. But to simply dismiss him because of Narron and Miley is foolish, and completely unfair to Mackanin himself.I agree. We should judge him against how this team did before he got here, to how he did once he got here. Granted, other managers have had good records while they had the interim title with this team. I just think that he performed 10 times better than Narron, and deserves the job unless LaRussa wants it.:)

jmac
09-29-2007, 12:42 AM
I hate this argument.

Just because Pete Mackanin is labeled as an interim manager does not equate to him being as bad as the last two. Just as you shouldn't hire a manager based on his 'big name' (Dusty Baker), doesn't mean you shouldn't hire a guy because of his label (Pete Mackanin). The last two ineterim-turned-permanent managers were bad scenarios because a.) they weren't very good, and b.) they didn't have much talent to work with. IMO, Pete makes rational decisions as well as have a good rapport with the players, and he's being given a decent (not great, but not terrible) product to work with.

Should Mackannin be the manager in '08? Not sure. But to simply dismiss him because of Narron and Miley is foolish, and completely unfair to Mackanin himself.
Very very well said !

jnwohio
09-29-2007, 08:37 AM
I hate this argument.

Just because Pete Mackanin is labeled as an interim manager does not equate to him being as bad as the last two. Just as you shouldn't hire a manager based on his 'big name' (Dusty Baker), doesn't mean you shouldn't hire a guy because of his label (Pete Mackanin). The last two ineterim-turned-permanent managers were bad scenarios because a.) they weren't very good, and b.) they didn't have much talent to work with. IMO, Pete makes rational decisions as well as have a good rapport with the players, and he's being given a decent (not great, but not terrible) product to work with.

Should Mackannin be the manager in '08? Not sure. But to simply dismiss him because of Narron and Miley is foolish, and completely unfair to Mackanin himself.


I agree, in particular with the last paragraph.

I think my concern is that Mr. Castellini will go head hunting without being cognizant enough of where the guy is now and what he brings to the table for the future as opposed to what he brought years ago. And then on the other side of the coin, I am concerned that if Castellinii can't get one of his short list guys and turns it back to Krivsky, he won't really look that hard before just handing it to Pete.

Pete is a very strong candidate and would be a good manager but I think he needs to be legitimately vetted against the strongest field avaialable with the man the Reds brass feels is best for them ultimately getting the nod.

If MacKanin does not get the Reds job, I would not be at all surprised to see him land elsewhere as a manager in the majors next year. Just in the Reds own division, try these two for size. Pittsburgh is likely going to be making a change. They are like the Reds in early '07 in that on paper they have a lot of parts that did not mesh on the field. Pete would seem to be a guy who has recent enough ties to that org to know the talent but enough separation to not be seen as part of the current problems. Up in Milwaukee, I'll believe Ned Yost has survived when I see him as their manager in spring training; and, there again the issue is talent that was not kept on task.

ThirdBaseCoach
09-30-2007, 05:56 PM
I dont judge the wins or losses so much but I judge the moves he makes during the game. He does some stupid things at times that remind me of Narron way too much.

cite at least three solid examples.

ThirdBaseCoach
09-30-2007, 05:58 PM
the reds should hire jim tracy who will surely get fired this week.

ThirdBaseCoach
09-30-2007, 06:00 PM
look at the lineup he got stuck with the last few games. most of the hitters were below .200. no one wins with that mess.

Newport Red
09-30-2007, 06:20 PM
the reds should hire jim tracy who will surely get fired this week.

I have no problem with that. Some will say he isn't a proven winner since he went to Pittsburgh and sucked like every other manager in recent memory. Except Pete Mac.

Jack Burton
09-30-2007, 09:56 PM
He did an ok job the second half of the season but I wouldn't bring him back as manager next year. Go out and get a proven winner.

jnwohio
09-30-2007, 10:20 PM
look at the lineup he got stuck with the last few games. most of the hitters were below .200. no one wins with that mess.

You can say that again and again and never say it enough. For several weeks John Fay kept saying Krivsky was not making deals (vets for prospects) because he wanted to help Pete Mackanin get the job.

Well if that was Krivsky's intent in late July and August, it did not look like it the last 3 weeks. I guess bringing Bailey back might have helped a little; but that was more than offset by not bringing on Jay Bruce. Between Bruce's glove and bat, I'll bet they would have won 3 of the 7 straight they lost in the last 8 days.

It makes me wonder if Krivsky was told from above that he was going to have to take a serious look at outside candidates and/ or that Castellini was going to be doing some head hunting on his own.

ThirdBaseCoach
09-30-2007, 10:47 PM
I have no problem with that. Some will say he isn't a proven winner since he went to Pittsburgh and sucked like every other manager in recent memory. Except Pete Mac.

wow, did you not see the sarcasm in that statement? tracey has to be the worst manager ever...........