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View Full Version : Miguel Perez -- back on track



Kc61
09-29-2007, 05:05 PM
Is Perez back to being a top ten Reds prospect? After injury, he came back and hit .322, OPS'd .835 at Sarasota and .923 at AA in brief stint.

Given his reputed defensive skills, if Perez can hit like that the Reds have something. For those who know, is he back?

Mario-Rijo
09-30-2007, 12:48 AM
It may be too soon to say but I hope so. After he got hurt I still listed him as my breakout player of the year (Of course my 1st option was taken). He did well let's see if he can build on that momentum early in the season. :thumbup:

Patrick Bateman
09-30-2007, 01:12 AM
I'd have trouble including him in the top 30. He has no stick. An extremely small sample doesn't change that. His future is either as a back-up or as Dane Sardhina Jr.

camisadelgolf
09-30-2007, 10:58 AM
As far as the Reds' catching prospects go, I think he's been passed by Devin Mesoraco (of course) and Ryan Hanigan. I'd still put him ahead of the recently-acquired Alvin Colina, though. Miguel Perez has always had the glove, so if he can hit equal to or better than David Ross, he should have a Major League job somewhere.

JaxRed
09-30-2007, 12:31 PM
There is no way that Hanigan has passed Perez on the prospect list. Hanigan is a nice guy, but he's just a warm body. I expect him to be removed from the 40 man roster over the off-season.

The question on Perez of course all center around his health and hitting. Never able to hit for either power or averge in his minor league career, Perez demonstrated both after coming back. Of course most of it was below the AA level.

Perez is still pretty young. He was 23 the entire season. So was the rib that was removed something that had been holding him back for years? Was the better numbers some combination of new health and maturity?

We won't know till next year for sure. The Reds probably know the answers to these questions, and he's probably at fall instructional league right now.

dougdirt
09-30-2007, 01:15 PM
There is no way that Hanigan has passed Perez on the prospect list. Hanigan is a nice guy, but he's just a warm body. I expect him to be removed from the 40 man roster over the off-season.

The question on Perez of course all center around his health and hitting. Never able to hit for either power or averge in his minor league career, Perez demonstrated both after coming back. Of course most of it was below the AA level.

Perez is still pretty young. He was 23 the entire season. So was the rib that was removed something that had been holding him back for years? Was the better numbers some combination of new health and maturity?

We won't know till next year for sure. The Reds probably know the answers to these questions, and he's probably at fall instructional league right now.

Spot on.

HokieRed
09-30-2007, 01:46 PM
IMHO, the serious catching prospects, among those close to the majors, are Tatum and Perez. One or the other of them may very well be a better choice to start than David Ross, particularly if his salary can be moved elsewhere.

Patrick Bateman
09-30-2007, 01:57 PM
I think the only catching prospect we have is Mesoraco and he's 5+ years away. Next season the Reds are stuck with Ross or if they can move him will have to look from outside the organization.

Tatum and Perez could seemingly become back-ups if things go well, but that's really it.

dougdirt
09-30-2007, 02:00 PM
I think the only catching prospect we have is Mesoraco and he's 5+ years away. Next season the Reds are stuck with Ross or if they can move him will have to look from outside the organization.

Tatum and Perez could seemingly become back-ups if things go well, but that's really it.

What makes you say that? Perez has always been well regarded as a great defender.... and while he played mostly in the FSL this year, he hit very well. What is to say that the rib problem didn't have a lot to do with bad hitting? I think at this point, we don't really know enough yet to decide on Perez one way or another.

Patrick Bateman
09-30-2007, 02:09 PM
What makes you say that? Perez has always been well regarded as a great defender.... and while he played mostly in the FSL this year, he hit very well. What is to say that the rib problem didn't have a lot to do with bad hitting? I think at this point, we don't really know enough yet to decide on Perez one way or another.

It's not like he was ever a good hitter in the first place, so unless this rib problem has been effecting him since day one, I'm not going to suddenly chalk up his poor hitting skills to this injury.

He's 24 years old and he hasn't done aything above A ball. He has little power and his plate discipline is horrid. IMO, there are way too many holes for him to ever become any kind of respectable hitter. He can go as far as his defense will take him, and my guess is AAA some day.

I awlays thought baseball america missed the boat on him big time. I respect his defense, but his hitting skills are embarassing. Perhaps he can prove me wrong, but he doesn't possess one single hitting skill that makes me want to consider him a prospect.

Same goes for Tatum. Terrible hitter with terrible discipline. Again, I respect his defense, but he has a long way to go to be anything. Considering his age, I don't like the odds of him making much forward progress. IMO, the best case results for these guys are as defensive minded back-ups if they can become any kind of hitter. There is little value there, and as such I don't consider them to be anything more than what you could find as minor league free agents.

HokieRed
09-30-2007, 02:35 PM
Are we talking good plate discipline in the incumbent, David Ross?

JaxRed
09-30-2007, 02:37 PM
First of all, he wasn't 24 until after the season.... So he was 23 this year not 24.

Secondly, 23 is pretty damn young. Let's say he had gone to a 4 year college, graduated as a Senior at 22 and played at Billings the year he got drafted.

If he had risen to AA in his second year and put up great numbers, we'd be all over this guy as a top prospect.

Patrick Bateman
09-30-2007, 02:38 PM
At this point Ross is a much better hitter than Perez or Tatum. It's not close.

This isn't because Ross is a good hitter. He's not. I'd like to see the Reds look elsewhere for catching next season (Michael Barrett???), but that doesn't mean Tatum/Perez is better than Ross. They can't hit AA pitching any better than Ross hits major league pitching. I'm guessing that will only get worse when they face advanced competition.

Patrick Bateman
09-30-2007, 02:41 PM
First of all, he wasn't 24 until after the season.... So he was 23 this year not 24.

Okay that's fair, my bad


If he had risen to AA in his second year and put up great numbers, we'd be all over this guy as a top prospect

Except he didn't. He had 23 at-bats where he hit well, but continued to show a complete lack of patience. He was fine at A ball, but didn't show the skills required to be an effective hitter as he moves up.

Players with poor contact skills that are batting average dependent are complete disasters, especially when their power is near non existant.

mth123
09-30-2007, 02:48 PM
Even if he just projects as a defensive minded back-up, that can be valuable especially when its cheap. Chad Moeller was $700K in 2007. Sal Fasano, Corky Miller, Paul Bako, Henry Blanco, Gary Bennett, Kelly Stinnett, Mike Defelice, etc. are guys who are on major league rosters. The state of catching is so poor these days that teams are begging vets who should have long been retired like Sandy Alomar, Brad Ausmus and Mike Leiberthal to hang around.

Perez is easily a prospect who should be protected on the 40 man roster and if his hitting has stepped forward with rib removed, he could even end up a platoon guy or part time starter. Even if not, he's as likely to be a major leaguer as those listed above. It beats scrounging around for the likes of Chad Moeller or offering too much money to some long past it vet to entice him to put off retirement.

dougdirt
09-30-2007, 02:53 PM
Except he didn't. He had 23 at-bats where he hit well, but continued to show a complete lack of patience. He was fine at A ball, but didn't show the skills required to be an effective hitter as he moves up.

Players with poor contact skills that are batting average dependent are complete disasters, especially when their power is near non existant.

15% strikeout rate is poor contact skills? Guess we will disagree on that one. He is a catcher, he doesn't need to hit a whole lot to be of value. Look around the league.... catchers can't hit.

Patrick Bateman
09-30-2007, 02:58 PM
15% strikeout rate is poor contact skills? Guess we will disagree on that one. He is a catcher, he doesn't need to hit a whole lot to be of value. Look around the league.... catchers can't hit.

19 K's in 108 at-bats projects to be around 100 in a full season.

Last year in AA he had 88 in 400 at-bats. I see a guy swinging at everything, and he's still striking out that's a bad combination.

I know that catchers can't hit, but Perez can't either. he's in fact worse than his peers (which is hard to imagine). I'm not saying he has to be Piazza at the plate, but it would be nice if he could project to hit even a little bit. I don't see one hitting skill with him that makes me excited.

Patrick Bateman
09-30-2007, 03:02 PM
Even if he just projects as a defensive minded back-up, that can be valuable especially when its cheap. Chad Moeller was $700K in 2007. Sal Fasano, Corky Miller, Paul Bako, Henry Blanco, Gary Bennett, Kelly Stinnett, Mike Defelice, etc. are guys who are on major league rosters. The state of catching is so poor these days that teams are begging vets who should have long been retired like Sandy Alomar, Brad Ausmus and Mike Leiberthal to hang around.

Perez is easily a prospect who should be protected on the 40 man roster and if his hitting has stepped forward with rib removed, he could even end up a platoon guy or part time starter. Even if not, he's as likely to be a major leaguer as those listed above. It beats scrounging around for the likes of Chad Moeller or offering too much money to some long past it vet to entice him to put off retirement.

I never said don't protect him. The Reds have little to protect, so they may as well give him a chance because of his defensive skills.

So there are plenty of bad catchers. Perez can be one of those. Great. So the Reds have a guy that can be easily replaced at near minimum salaries and that comparable players are found for nothing. I don't see why people are excited about this.

Guys like Perez are not hard to replace. When you talk about catching prospects, I thought the goal would be to find a guy that could actually help the major league team. Finding guys that can compete with Sal Fasano and Chad Moeller is not something that I want to see in my catcing prospects.

I can see him having some career as a defensive minded back-up, but his hitting skills will prevent him from being anything more than that. And those guys are extremely easy to replace.

dougdirt
09-30-2007, 03:08 PM
19 K's in 108 at-bats projects to be around 100 in a full season.

Last year in AA he had 88 in 400 at-bats. I see a guy swinging at everything, and he's still striking out that's a bad combination.

I know that catchers can't hit, but Perez can't either. he's in fact worse than his peers (which is hard to imagine). I'm not saying he has to be Piazza at the plate, but it would be nice if he could project to hit even a little bit. I don't see one hitting skill with him that makes me excited.

He had a 15.5 strikeout percentage. Over 600 plate appearances that is 93 strikeouts in a season. Thats not poor contact rate to me.

Now as to say that he can't hit... who knows how long the rib problem had been bothering him.... all I know, is that now that its not bothering him, he hit very well for a 23 year old catcher in limited time.

Patrick Bateman
09-30-2007, 03:10 PM
He had a 15.5 strikeout percentage. Over 600 plate appearances that is 93 strikeouts in a season. Thats not poor contact rate to me.


I consider that extremely poor considering that he swings a ton. When you swing early in the count as often as he does you better have a low strikeout percentage. 93 K's is a lot for a guy with that approach.

mth123
09-30-2007, 03:19 PM
I never said don't protect him. The Reds have little to protect, so they may as well give him a chance because of his defensive skills.

So there are plenty of bad catchers. Perez can be one of those. Great. So the Reds have a guy that can be easily replaced at near minimum salaries and that comparable players are found for nothing. I don't see why people are excited about this.

Guys like Perez are not hard to replace. When you talk about catching prospects, I thought the goal would be to find a guy that could actually help the major league team. Finding guys that can compete with Sal Fasano and Chad Moeller is not something that I want to see in my catcing prospects.

I can see him having some career as a defensive minded back-up, but his hitting skills will prevent him from being anything more than that. And those guys are extremely easy to replace.


I'm not overly excited either. I just think its preferable to have guys who are reasonable options internally as compared to the competition who seem to be giving jobs to comparable players and overpaying to do so.

BEETTLEBUG
09-30-2007, 10:56 PM
I think he deserves a chance? Is he going to Winter Ball?

M2
10-01-2007, 12:24 AM
Charlie Brown, do NOT try to kick the Miguel Perez football again. We know how that ends up.

He's still a pure hacker. That he hit for some power this year is only interesting in that someone ought to run chem tests on his bodily fluids.

BEETTLEBUG
10-01-2007, 04:15 AM
M2 I am not Charlie Brown so stop name calling. You are Boston leave Reds players alone.

camisadelgolf
10-01-2007, 05:35 AM
Unless Ryan Hanigan is worse than Javier Valentin with the glove, I think he's got a great shot to be an average-or-better catcher in MLB. He consistently makes contact with the ball, and that's worth a lot, in my opinion. Craig Tatum supposedly plays good defense, but the questions have always been about his hitting. With that said, he arguably has a better track record than Miguel Perez.
1. Mesoraco
2. Hanigan
3. Tatum
4. Perez
5. Colina

M2
10-01-2007, 10:44 AM
M2 I am not Charlie Brown so stop name calling. You are Boston leave Reds players alone.

Wasn't talking about you specifically. People have been getting suckered on Perez for years.

Don't see what me being in Boston has to do with it. I like living in Boston.

RedsManRick
10-02-2007, 12:07 PM
At this point Ross is a much better hitter than Perez or Tatum. It's not close.

This isn't because Ross is a good hitter. He's not. I'd like to see the Reds look elsewhere for catching next season (Michael Barrett???), but that doesn't mean Tatum/Perez is better than Ross. They can't hit AA pitching any better than Ross hits major league pitching. I'm guessing that will only get worse when they face advanced competition.

Just curious, are you referring to the Michael Barrett who will be 31 in 2008 and just came off a year in which he hit .244/.281/.372 while making $4.5M? Catcher in his earlier 30's, coming of a horrible offensive year, not a good clubhouse reputation, and not known for his defense or ability to work with catchers. That's a risk I'll let somebody else take.

Patrick Bateman
10-02-2007, 01:28 PM
Just curious, are you referring to the Michael Barrett who will be 31 in 2008 and just came off a year in which he hit .244/.281/.372 while making $4.5M? Catcher in his earlier 30's, coming of a horrible offensive year, not a good clubhouse reputation, and not known for his defense or ability to work with catchers. That's a risk I'll let somebody else take.

Ya he had a sucky season, but he was one of the better catchers in the league going into the season with 3 straight .800+ OPS seasons. Being 31 I think he is a terrific rebound candidate. I also think he isn't that bad defensively.

With his reputation, you may be able to get him dirt cheap all things considered and find yourself with an above average starter. Considering the alternatives, it beats going with Ross for another year (this is assuming that we can dump his contract).

Hoosier Red
10-07-2007, 10:06 AM
They may be able to get him dirt cheap, but 31 for a catcher is old.
You may get one more decent season out of him offensively but you get next to nothing defensively.
And in a season where we could very well see Bailey, Cueto and Maloney all see significant time, I'll pass on a catcher that doesn't bother to spend time with the pitchers.