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TOBTTReds
09-29-2007, 05:54 PM
125 pitches from Harang on September 29th, eliminated months ago, against a team that has already clinched, in a game we are losing with no sign of offense.

Ridiculous. That to me is someone who doesn't understand what damage throwing that much can do to someone's arm. Has no idea what it can do to affect the rest of their career. He is our ace, let's treat him like one.

Matt700wlw
09-29-2007, 05:56 PM
How Narron-like...

Or Dusy Baker-like...

Aronchis
09-29-2007, 05:57 PM
He probably wanted to set career numbers goals against a free swinging Cubs team. It worked, though may be a sign Mack isn't coming back in Cincy.

TOBTTReds
09-29-2007, 05:59 PM
He probably wanted to set career numbers goals against a free swinging Cubs team. It worked, though may be a sign Mack isn't coming back in Cincy.

Don't know if it was a sign that he isn't coming back, or if it the final straw that keeps him from coming back now.

Matt700wlw
09-29-2007, 06:01 PM
The sign that he isn't coming back is the fact that they haven't lifted the "interim" tag yet...

Chip R
09-29-2007, 06:03 PM
The sign that he isn't coming back is the fact that they haven't lifted the "interim" tag yet...


They didn't do it with Miley and Narron and they came back.

Matt700wlw
09-29-2007, 06:07 PM
Good point.


The only way I see him back is if they can't get anything done with their other outside choices...which I don't see being an issue.

Chip R
09-29-2007, 06:08 PM
Good point.


The only way I see him back is if they can't get anything done with their other outside choices...


I agree.

Matt700wlw
09-29-2007, 06:09 PM
The Reds would never say that....nor should they

westofyou
09-29-2007, 06:13 PM
125 pitches.. whoopee... he's not throwing next week. He likely is aware of his limitations.

Danny Serafini
09-29-2007, 06:28 PM
It's not like he doesn't have enough rest before his next start. He could have thrown 200 today for all I care, it just doesn't matter.

PuffyPig
09-29-2007, 06:35 PM
It's not like he doesn't have enough rest before his next start. He could have thrown 200 today for all I care, it just doesn't matter.

You can't average out pitches like that.

200 pitches in one game will do more damage than 1 pitch a day for 200 days.

Ltlabner
09-29-2007, 07:04 PM
:runaway:

RedLegSuperStar
09-29-2007, 07:48 PM
Does it matter? Harang may of been what brought Reds fans out to the ball park.. certainly wasn't Coats who had the lone hit. Face it.. Brandon Phillips, Aaron Harang, and Bronson Arroyo are the big names on this team.. with the injuries to Dunn, Junior, Hamilton, Hatteberg, Gonzalez, and everyones favorite Juan Castro..

Plus Harang.. if given the run support.. would of won the game on 4 runs with 13 K's 9 out of 10 games.. no matter if he threw 95 pitches or 125 pitches. Now I wouldn't do the same for Homer.. but let the guy pitch as long as he wants in a season that can't go anywhere. He's been at least mentioned in the Cy Young race.. maybe this outing gets him some extra votes.

RedsManRick
09-29-2007, 08:25 PM
It's all fun and games until somebody tears a rotator cuff.

GAC
09-29-2007, 08:31 PM
How do people like this offense (or lack thereof) with guys like Dunn and Jr absent? Not pretty at all is it?

I hope Wayne is noticing this. ;)

37red
09-29-2007, 08:38 PM
I'll bet Harang asked to stay in and finish off his season. There would be no reason for a manager to do that, and Harang could have asked for a seat and a stand up ovation. Nothing to get excited about. I'm more interested in the Phillies right now. What a finish coming, memories of "99". And the Mets in it again. I'm pulling for the Phillies.

WVRedsFan
09-29-2007, 08:59 PM
How do people like this offense (or lack thereof) with guys like Dunn and Jr absent? Not pretty at all is it?

I hope Wayne is noticing this. ;)

GAC, the word anemic comes to mind. It's what I've been saying all season. How important are Dunn and Junior? Very important and before anyone wants to get rid of either, you have to replace 70 HR's and 200 RBI's. Hopper's 16 RBI's this season speaks volumes as does Freel's 16. Without pop in the outfield (IMHO Dunn, Junior and Hamilton), you're sunk.

BoydsOfSummer
09-29-2007, 09:36 PM
How do people like this offense (or lack thereof) with guys like Dunn and Jr absent? Not pretty at all is it?

I hope Wayne is noticing this. ;)

How come we aren't little-thinging and hustling our way to wins? If all that crap that a couple genious broadcasters preach from their pulpit high above homeplate, where are the runs and wins?

I hope Franchester is noticing this.

pedro
09-29-2007, 09:50 PM
It really doesn't matter that much as he's not going to pitch again until next march.

RedFanAlways1966
09-29-2007, 10:03 PM
Aaron Harang...

Year: 115+ pitches, 120+ pitches
2005: 7 games, 3 games
2006: 11 games, 4 games
2007: 8 games, 5 games
>> 120+ pitch games incl. in 115+ pitch games.

I am not worried about today's game. Harang has proven to me that he is a workhorse. This year and his stats has not proven that his past workload has been a great strain on him.

What is the limit? I am not sure, but I like to think that some guys can take more than others. The limit is not the same for all.

westofyou
09-29-2007, 10:13 PM
Aaron Harang...

Year: 115+ pitches, 120+ pitches
2005: 7 games, 3 games
2006: 11 games, 4 games
2007: 8 games, 5 games
>> 120+ pitch games incl. in 115+ pitch games.

I am not worried about today's game. Harang has proven to me that he is a workhorse. This year and his stats has not proven that his past workload has been a great strain on him.

What is the limit? I am not sure, but I like to think that some guys can take more than others. The limit is not the same for all.

Listen to the man.. he has the spreadsheet on this... as I hope too as well. ;)

TOBTTReds
09-29-2007, 10:14 PM
It really doesn't matter that much as he's not going to pitch again until next march.

Games like today can still effect you for years. Unless he is a complete animal (maybe), then it has been shown that pitcher abuse effects pitchers for years.. I think it was COMPLETELY meaningless to leave him out there. There was nothing positive that could have helped the Reds future by doing it. It only could have hurt the future.

RedFanAlways1966
09-29-2007, 10:21 PM
Listen to the man.. he has the spreadsheet on this... as I hope too as well. ;)

One more day (game) and it'll be there, woy. :)

pedro
09-29-2007, 10:47 PM
Games like today can still effect you for years.

I think that's a little extreme.

TOBTTReds
09-29-2007, 10:54 PM
I think that's a little extreme.

Well I don't really mean today's game alone, but a group of games like today's is what I'm getting at. And this was a meaningless game. I wasn't fired up at all earlier in the year when he was pitching this much in one game. But this was 100% meaningless to send him back out.

If you can tell me one positive that could have come out of him going out there for the 8th, then I might let it go a bit.

pedro
09-29-2007, 10:56 PM
Well I don't really mean today's game alone, but a group of games like today's is what I'm getting at. And this was a meaningless game. I wasn't fired up at all earlier in the year when he was pitching this much in one game. But this was 100% meaningless to send him back out.

If you can tell me one positive that could have come out of him going out there for the 8th, then I might let it go a bit.

Stanton & Majewski didn't pitch?

TOBTTReds
09-29-2007, 11:02 PM
Stanton & Majewski didn't pitch?

touche

Danny Serafini
10-01-2007, 09:57 AM
You can't average out pitches like that.

200 pitches in one game will do more damage than 1 pitch a day for 200 days.

The 200 number was a bit of hyperbole, but the basic point still stands. A 125 pitch outing wasn't going to destroy his arm, and with more than enough rest afterwards he wasn't going to build up any fatigue from it.

RedsManRick
10-01-2007, 10:28 AM
I think it's more of a question of risk. Even if there's a just 1% chance that he'd do some damage by throwing 15-20 more pitches than most of would like, why take it?

registerthis
10-01-2007, 10:43 AM
It's all fun and games until somebody tears a rotator cuff.

And then it's hilarious.

KronoRed
10-01-2007, 02:19 PM
And then it's hilarious.

For the other teams.;)