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Degenerate39
09-30-2007, 10:45 AM
Notes: Return of the Mack?
Veterans recommend bringing back interim skipper in '08
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

Entering Friday, the Reds were 40-37 since Pete Mackanin took over as manager. (Al Behrman/AP)


CINCINNATI -- It wasn't an overwhelming majority, but a poll of some veteran Reds players indicated there was support to have interim manager Pete Mackanin back next season with the permanent job.
From a group of 14 players surveyed on the team with three or more years big league experience, 11 responded and three declined to participate. Of those who responded, six said Mackanin should return, four said he shouldn't return and one was undecided.

Reds second baseman Brandon Phillips was emphatic that Mackanin should get the job.

"I just feel like Pete knows what this team is capable of doing since he's been here," Phillips said. "I think Pete deserves to come back. I think he needs to come back, because he's seen the stuff that goes on in this clubhouse and what can make this team win. If we bring a new guy in, I feel like he won't know what we need or what really goes on in this clubhouse. That's just my opinion."

The only people with votes that count in the end are owner/CEO Bob Castellini and general manager Wayne Krivsky. There has been no indication of a timetable for naming a 2008 manager or how many candidates would be considered.

Mackanin, who was named interim manager on July 1, entered Friday with a 40-37 record and in need of one more victory to guarantee a plus-.500 finish during his regime. He took over the team when it was 31-51 under Jerry Narron.

"I think he definitely at least deserves an interview and a legitimate chance to get the job," left fielder Adam Dunn said. "I think he keeps us more relaxed. He doesn't try to over-manage. He keeps everybody loose and everybody wants to play for him."

Phillips agreed that Mackanin helped lighten the mood of a team that once seemed destined for the National League's worst record.

"There were rumors going on about the team and stuff. When he came in, he had a team meeting and just squashed a lot of things," Phillips said. "That motivated us and showed us that we need to go out and win and stop worrying about [everything]. He did his job. It's really paying off and we earned our respect from him really fast."

redsfanmia
09-30-2007, 11:28 AM
Bringing him back means losing 90+ games again next year.

jmac
09-30-2007, 11:38 AM
Bringing him back means losing 90+ games again next year.

:rolleyes:

DannyB
09-30-2007, 01:31 PM
Bringing him back means losing 90+ games again next year.

I think that has alot to do with who comes back with him.:lastyear::thisyear:

HokieRed
09-30-2007, 02:43 PM
I'd say the poll among the players indicates a reason not to hire Mackanin: it's hard to see how he can manage very effectively with that little support. Besides I see no compelling reason he should get the job if an established major league manager can be found. The goal is not to find somebody acceptable; the goal is to win the world series.

jnwohio
09-30-2007, 03:25 PM
I'd say the poll among the players indicates a reason not to hire Mackanin: it's hard to see how he can manage very effectively with that little support. Besides I see no compelling reason he should get the job if an established major league manager can be found. The goal is not to find somebody acceptable; the goal is to win the world series.

I am not saying that Mackanin should get the job; but, I think can think of a number of "established MLB managers" he would he would be preferable to.

Your last sentence says it in a nutshell.

Chi-Town Red
09-30-2007, 06:25 PM
i dont think he will be back...IMO

Carin4Narron
09-30-2007, 06:30 PM
Bringing him back means losing 90+ games again next year.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

texasdave
09-30-2007, 06:41 PM
Bringing him back means losing 90+ games again next year.

If they don't make major improvements to the pitching staff they can hire Sparky Anderson, Connie Mack, Gene Mauch and Earl Weaver and the Reds still aren't going to contend. Fixing the pitching staff will automatically make whomever they hire that much better a manager.

ThirdBaseCoach
09-30-2007, 06:50 PM
If they don't make major improvements to the pitching staff they can hire Sparky Anderson, Connie Mack, Gene Mauch and Earl Weaver and the Reds still aren't going to contend. Fixing the pitching staff will automatically make whomever they hire that much better a manager.

you said it, dave. look at the difference between piniella in tampa for three years with no players, and one year in chicago with players. without pitching, this team goes nowhere.

Orenda
09-30-2007, 07:51 PM
you said it, dave. look at the difference between piniella in tampa for three years with no players, and one year in chicago with players. without pitching, this team goes nowhere.

Yes, but intentionally walking a batter to put the winning run on 3rd with nobody out should be investigated. Thanks Jerry.

jmac
09-30-2007, 10:27 PM
If they don't make major improvements to the pitching staff they can hire Sparky Anderson, Connie Mack, Gene Mauch and Earl Weaver and the Reds still aren't going to contend. Fixing the pitching staff will automatically make whomever they hire that much better a manager.

You got it right ! 100% !
as far as the other poster talking about an instance he didnt agree with, yes some managers make stupid moves but guess what ? They all will !
Is Mac right for the job? I am not saying yes or no but to say he would mean 90 losses again is ridicuolus.
Did Lou become a genius here then forget everything in tampa then find it again with the cubs ! No. He had a good team here and not there then he comes to the cubs and they
1: get soriano
2: sign lilly
3: play in the NL central.
I think a bad manager can hurt a good team lots more than a good one can help a bad one. With proper players Mac could win here if no help is aquired, the names the above poster mentioned(Anderson,Mauch etc) would have trouble !

Newport Red
09-30-2007, 10:50 PM
I'm rooting for Larussa for manager just for the enjoyment of reading this board when he bats the pitcher eighth.

ThirdBaseCoach
09-30-2007, 11:50 PM
Yes, but intentionally walking a batter to put the winning run on 3rd with nobody out should be investigated. Thanks Jerry.

huh? you cite one example of some decision that may have not worked out and that's the extent of your arguement?

Screwball
10-01-2007, 01:03 AM
I'm rooting for Larussa for manager just for the enjoyment of reading this board when he bats the pitcher eighth.

:laugh: Good point. Although that strategy might not look too bad if we continue running out some of the offensively-challenged players we currently are (Ross, Coats, Ellison, etc.).

Orenda
10-02-2007, 11:26 AM
huh? you cite one example of some decision that may have not worked out and that's the extent of your arguement?

I wasn't argueing with your previous statement. I agree that a manager can't make up for a team with insufficient parts, in praticular, lack of pitching. I've played sports, Im sure you have as well, and it is not my opinion that all managers/coach/third base coach/ are created equal. I had already seen enough of Narron's game management before the event I cited to form an opinion of him. I thought the event cited should have been enough for others to see why Jerry Narron didn't know how to position his team for the highest probability of success. As a paying fan it was enough for me to not buy a ticket to go see a team with below average pitching and a manager who made moves I thought were contributing factors to defeat. Sorry for the tangent about Narron. Ur right, a great manager usually doesn't make up for poor pitching or players but poor managers simply compound the problem. Also in Pinella's defense, he was in an expansion organization in a division with two of the best teams in baseball with the highest payrolls/ talent. The reds situation was different.

Orenda
10-02-2007, 11:37 AM
.

Triples
10-02-2007, 11:56 AM
Notes: Return of the Mack?
Veterans recommend bringing back interim skipper in '08
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

Entering Friday, the Reds were 40-37 since Pete Mackanin took over as manager. (Al Behrman/AP)


CINCINNATI -- It wasn't an overwhelming majority, but a poll of some veteran Reds players indicated there was support to have interim manager Pete Mackanin back next season with the permanent job.
From a group of 14 players surveyed on the team with three or more years big league experience, 11 responded and three declined to participate. Of those who responded, six said Mackanin should return, four said he shouldn't return and one was undecided.

Reds second baseman Brandon Phillips was emphatic that Mackanin should get the job.

"I just feel like Pete knows what this team is capable of doing since he's been here," Phillips said. "I think Pete deserves to come back. I think he needs to come back, because he's seen the stuff that goes on in this clubhouse and what can make this team win. If we bring a new guy in, I feel like he won't know what we need or what really goes on in this clubhouse. That's just my opinion."

The only people with votes that count in the end are owner/CEO Bob Castellini and general manager Wayne Krivsky. There has been no indication of a timetable for naming a 2008 manager or how many candidates would be considered.

Mackanin, who was named interim manager on July 1, entered Friday with a 40-37 record and in need of one more victory to guarantee a plus-.500 finish during his regime. He took over the team when it was 31-51 under Jerry Narron.

"I think he definitely at least deserves an interview and a legitimate chance to get the job," left fielder Adam Dunn said. "I think he keeps us more relaxed. He doesn't try to over-manage. He keeps everybody loose and everybody wants to play for him."

Phillips agreed that Mackanin helped lighten the mood of a team that once seemed destined for the National League's worst record.

"There were rumors going on about the team and stuff. When he came in, he had a team meeting and just squashed a lot of things," Phillips said. "That motivated us and showed us that we need to go out and win and stop worrying about [everything]. He did his job. It's really paying off and we earned our respect from him really fast."

A six to four vote with one undecided and 3 abstensions seems like less than an overwhelming show of support for Mackanin. I suspect the 3 who didn't vote and the one that was undecided are likely to be negative votes; they just didn't want to be negative. I would think that a 14-0 or 13-1 vote would be what you're looking for.

Orenda
10-02-2007, 12:02 PM
A six to four vote with one undecided and 3 abstensions seems like less than an overwhelming show of support for Mackanin. I suspect the 3 who didn't vote and the one that was undecided are likely to be negative votes; they just didn't want to be negative. I would think that a 14-0 or 13-1 vote would be what you're looking for.

Yeah it certainly is not a strong stand of support. I don't think you can link the 3 non-participants into this. They might have just declined on principle. Since they are veterans they probably recognized the intent of the vote/article, and by their silence couldhave relized its not their decision.

Old NDN
10-02-2007, 12:20 PM
Didn't Miley and Narron have strong support from the players to return also?

ThirdBaseCoach
10-02-2007, 01:15 PM
I am not saying that Mackanin should get the job; but, I think can think of a number of "established MLB managers" he would he would be preferable to......

please list three of the "established" managers and why.

ThirdBaseCoach
10-02-2007, 01:20 PM
...I wasn't argueing with your previous statement..... Ur right, a great manager usually doesn't make up for poor pitching or players but poor managers simply compound the problem. Also in Pinella's defense, he was in an expansion organization in a division with two of the best teams in baseball with the highest payrolls/ talent. The reds situation was different.

excuse me, summerplight, but I read your post as a knock on Pete but but you actually cited as an example one of Narron's decisions. I still think Pete can manage the heck out of this team.

Lou needs no defending for Tampa. It just shows that a veteran manager can not work miracles. Three very bad years speak for themselves.

jnwohio
10-02-2007, 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnwohio
I am not saying that Mackanin should get the job; but, I think can think of a number of "established MLB managers" he would he would be preferable to......

please list three of the "established" managers and why.

Jim Tracy, Buddy Bell, Bob Boone, Jimy Williams, Buck Showalter Ned Yost et. al.

All these guys would count as established managers. Would you want any of them at this point?

I would also put LaRussa on the list based on what I have been reading in the last few days. He sounds like a man who feels it that it is time to hang it up but is working on convincing himself he needs to do it one year just to be sure he doesn't quit a year too soon. A certain recipe for disaster.

ThirdBaseCoach
10-03-2007, 12:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnwohio
I am not saying that Mackanin should get the job; but, I think can think of a number of "established MLB managers" he would he would be preferable to......

please list three of the "established" managers and why.

Jim Tracy, Buddy Bell, Bob Boone, Jimy Williams, Buck Showalter Ned Yost et. al.

All these guys would count as established managers. Would you want any of them at this point?

I would also put LaRussa on the list based on what I have been reading in the last few days. He sounds like a man who feels it that it is time to hang it up but is working on convincing himself he needs to do it one year just to be sure he doesn't quit a year too soon. A certain recipe for disaster.

Tony stays in StL.
Tracy? loser
Bell. he retired.
Boone - easy job with the Nats.
Williams is decent
Buck, you are kidding, right?
Ned stays with the Brewers.

AmarilloRed
10-03-2007, 12:25 AM
On the manager process

I talked to Wayne Krivsky about the process of hiring a manager. Let's just say he wasn't very enlightening.

"I said all I'm going to say about," Krivsky said. "It's not something I want to take daily calls on."

Krivsky did tell Pete Mackanin they are going to look at outside candidates.

"I talked to Pete obviously," Krivsky said, "just like we communicate on every player move."

Krivsky has no timetable, but it sounds like he prefer sooner over later.

"I have no way of knowing how long it's going to take," he said. "You don't want to put people lives in limbo any longer than you have to."

Krivsky would not say whether there's committee to help with process.

"That's for us," he said. "We're trying to get the best person. It could very well be Pete Mackanin."

How Tony LaRussa delaying his decision about whether he'll return to St. Louis affects all this is hard to say. I'd be surprised if Bob Castellini filled the job before he knows if LaRussa is a available or not.

Another factor in this now that they've decided to go outside, the Reds are pretty much obligated to interview minority candidates. That's a mandate from MLB.

Some news on the managerial search from John Fay. It sounds like they still have Pete as an option, but will also consider other outside candidates.

jnwohio
10-03-2007, 12:26 AM
Tony stays in StL.
Tracy? loser
Bell. he retired.
Boone - easy job with the Nats.
Williams is decent
Buck, you are kidding, right?
Ned stays with the Brewers.

The guy wanted a list of established managers. By "the Book" these all are and are available. But who would want them? That was my point. I put Buddy on the list because somewhere I saw a post putting him forward as a homeboy candidate.

From another post you made 3B coach, I agree the search was on before Narron was gone. Mackanin was no accident. They saw him as a guy who could do the job interim and maybe grow into a fall back if Castellini's head hunting came up empty. I think that is exactly what we are waiting to find out now. It would be nice though to know who Bob C has already talked to and who is in and who is out.

BEETTLEBUG
10-03-2007, 01:31 AM
That Is Not Krivsky's Way Of Doing Things. Talking To Press.

ThirdBaseCoach
10-03-2007, 07:44 AM
The guy wanted a list of established managers. By "the Book" these all are and are available. But who would want them? That was my point. I put Buddy on the list because somewhere I saw a post putting him forward as a homeboy candidate.

From another post you made 3B coach, I agree the search was on before Narron was gone. Mackanin was no accident. They saw him as a guy who could do the job interim and maybe grow into a fall back if Castellini's head hunting came up empty. I think that is exactly what we are waiting to find out now. It would be nice though to know who Bob C has already talked to and who is in and who is out.

I may have misinterpreted the first answer; the list contains "established" guys.......that we would not want. I stand corrected.

I think the way WK and BC have handled this matter is typical of their lack of awareness of the media and how to handle public perception. WK badly needs a public relations consultant. Talk about someone with a poor attitude towards the fan.

These guys have to remember that baseball is entertainment - not life or death. They should take a lesson from Pete and learn how to get along with the press.