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View Full Version : Leather pants looking at Dunn again!



redsfan4445
10-03-2007, 10:01 AM
per new jersy paper:
http://www.examiner.com/a-966748~Expect_Bowden__Nats_to_make_significant_noi se_in_the_offseason.html

"The Nats very nearly traded for Cincinnatiís Adam Dunn in July, and may re-visit that situation again this fall. Dunn and Austin Kearns are close friends, and Dunnís been heard to speak favorably about playing in Washington. "

RedLegSuperStar
10-03-2007, 10:15 AM
per new jersy paper:
http://www.examiner.com/a-966748~Expect_Bowden__Nats_to_make_significant_noi se_in_the_offseason.html

"The Nats very nearly traded for Cincinnatiís Adam Dunn in July, and may re-visit that situation again this fall. Dunn and Austin Kearns are close friends, and Dunnís been heard to speak favorably about playing in Washington. "

How are the Reds and Nationals going to pull that trade off when Dunn's option hasn't been picked up and if it is he would have a no trade clause until June 15th or 2008?

I can't see the Nationals offering/giving up a decent package for Dunn..

BRM
10-03-2007, 10:21 AM
How are the Reds and Nationals going to pull that trade off when Dunn's option hasn't been picked up and if it is he would have a no trade clause until June 15th or 2008?

I can't see the Nationals offering/giving up a decent package for Dunn..

Dunn would have to waive his no-trade clause. I can't see the Nationals offering enough either.

cumberlandreds
10-03-2007, 10:43 AM
The Nats don't have a single player or a package of players I would remotely consider for Dunn.

westofyou
10-03-2007, 10:51 AM
Dmitri Young, Kearns, Nick Johnson, Wily Mo.

Where would he play?

MrCinatit
10-03-2007, 10:52 AM
The Nats don't have a single player or a package of players I would remotely consider for Dunn.

I would be hard pressed to take a package of 10 players from the Nationals for Dunn, especially considering Jim's history - including his want to deal away damaged goods.

Heath
10-03-2007, 11:12 AM
I'd have to see if Ryan Zimmerman or EdE could play LF.

Because if Leatherpants wants Dunn, the list starts with Zimmerman.

Joseph
10-03-2007, 11:20 AM
I'd have to see if Ryan Zimmerman or EdE could play LF.

Because if Leatherpants wants Dunn, the list starts with Zimmerman.

Absolutely.

Kc61
10-03-2007, 12:17 PM
Absolutely.

That would be a good trade for the Reds. Bruce, Votto, Zimmerman, Hamilton, Phillips, would be a great young nucleus. If Reds were to go that route, though, I think EE would have to be traded. I don't see room for him on such a team.

Can't see Nats giving up Zim though.

Dunn and EE for Zimmerman? I'd do that too.

M2
10-03-2007, 12:19 PM
I'd have to see if Ryan Zimmerman or EdE could play LF.

Because if Leatherpants wants Dunn, the list starts with Zimmerman.

Yep. Otherwise there's really no point in talking about trading Dunn over there.

Spring~Fields
10-03-2007, 01:44 PM
That would be a good trade for the Reds. Bruce, Votto, Zimmerman, Hamilton, Phillips, would be a great young nucleus. If Reds were to go that route, though, I think EE would have to be traded. I don't see room for him on such a team.

Can't see Nats giving up Zim though.

Dunn and EE for Zimmerman? I'd do that too.

I was wondering about a couple of items:

Would Zimmerman’s numbers improve enough at the GABP over playing in Washington’s stadium to make up for what is lost if Dunn was traded?

Could Zimmerman be the right handed bat that the Reds need?
Would Zimmerman’s glove be an upgrade at 3B to improve the defense and help the pitching?

In addition to Zimmerman would Washington have an arm that can get people out in the relief innings that have been problematic for the Reds?

If the answer is yes to those ponderings, then I think that it would be interesting to see.

KronoRed
10-03-2007, 01:50 PM
I want to see a quote from Dunn saying he wants to play in Washington, otherwise it's just bunk to make an article blurb sound better and more fuel to the "Dunn hates Cincinnati" malarky.

Anyway, Ryan Zimmerman isn't enough for Dunn IMO.

BRM
10-03-2007, 01:57 PM
I want to see a quote from Dunn saying he wants to play in Washington, otherwise it's just bunk to make an article blurb sound better and more fuel to the "Dunn hates Cincinnati" malarky.

Anyway, Ryan Zimmerman isn't enough for Dunn IMO.

The "Dunn wants to play in Washington" blurbs probably originated from JimBo himself.

KronoRed
10-03-2007, 01:59 PM
The "Dunn wants to play in Washington" blurbs probably originated from JimBo himself.

No doubt.

Chip R
10-03-2007, 02:23 PM
The "Dunn wants to play in Washington" blurbs probably originated from JimBo himself.


But Dunn hasn't denied it, has he? :evil:

BCubb2003
10-03-2007, 03:16 PM
From Baseball Prospectus at the trading deadlne:

If Adam Dunn ends up with the Nationals, it will have to be through the offices of a third team. The Nats have had discussions with the Mets, Red Sox, and Tigers over the past few days, usually about their available relievers, but some sources believe that Dunn could be the ultimate goal. Multiple reports have Dunn has been telling people that he would love to be reunited with his close friend Austin Kearns, and would consider extending his deal if traded to Washington.

PuffyPig
10-03-2007, 03:27 PM
Anyway, Ryan Zimmerman isn't enough for Dunn IMO.

Zimmerman is one of the majors best young players. Good hitter, great fielder, will likely get better, and still cheap. He'd hit 40 HR's in GABP easily.

Dunn is one year from FA.

If we could somehow get Zimmermna for Dunn, we'd have to be estactic.

If Zimmerman isn't enough, then we will never trade Dunn, because we'll never get any more.

Kc61
10-03-2007, 03:32 PM
I can see a deal that would help the Reds and may satisfy Wash.


Dunn, EE and a good young reliever (Pelland? Bray? Roenicke? McBeth?) for Zimmerman and Cordero.

I don't think Dunn for Zimm works straight up because Zimm (only 23 and cheap) has more market value. I think Dunn and EE for Zimm might be ok with Wash -- except that they inherit a huge contract with Dunn.

So Wash would need to unload a salary (Cordero, who supposedly was trade bait anyway) and Reds throw in a reliever.

This trade would ultimately improve the Reds in my view. It would provide a big righty bat. The middle of the order would soon be Bruce, Zimm, Hamilton, Votto -- young and powerful. It would also possibly let Griffey stay another year and then replace him with more of a lead-off type, perhaps a true centerfielder.

I wonder if Wash would listen to this. Zimm did not have a great year in '07.

Matt700wlw
10-03-2007, 03:39 PM
Throw in Cordero......why not?

Get everything you can...they already snubbed the Reds once!

Kc61
10-03-2007, 03:52 PM
Throw in Cordero......why not?

Get everything you can...they already snubbed the Reds once!


I'm operating on the assumption that Wash views Cordero's contract as a minus, not a plus. If that's not so, then they would presumably want to include a different player who makes money. I don't see them taking Dunn's salary without unloading a contract.

Given that they have a very deep bullpen, and assuming the Reds provide a young reliever in the deal, perhaps the Nats would view it as desirable to rid themselves of Cordero now. If this is nuts, then any deal would probably require another, different salary going to Cincy.

Patrick Bateman
10-03-2007, 04:07 PM
I'm operating on the assumption that Wash views Cordero's contract as a minus, not a plus. If that's not so, then they would presumably want to include a different player who makes money. I don't see them taking Dunn's salary without unloading a contract.




Doubt it. Bowden had a huge price tag on Cordero at the deadline and when nobody matched he refused to give in.

I'm no Cordero fan, but he would be very costly to aqcuire, and he wouldn't be even close to being worth the price for us.

Highlifeman21
10-03-2007, 04:14 PM
That would be a good trade for the Reds. Bruce, Votto, Zimmerman, Hamilton, Phillips, would be a great young nucleus. If Reds were to go that route, though, I think EE would have to be traded. I don't see room for him on such a team.

Can't see Nats giving up Zim though.

Dunn and EE for Zimmerman? I'd do that too.

Really?

Career OPS of .900 and .798 for a Career OPS of .812?

EE and Zimmerman have almost been a wash head to head in terms of stats and production, so why throw in Dunn? 2006 and 2007 were virtually the same for EE and Zimmerman. Zimmerman barely edges EE in RF and ZR, so the slight defensive upgrade doesn't merit giving up Dunn and EE for just Zimmerman.

KronoRed
10-03-2007, 04:18 PM
Zimmerman is one of the majors best young players. Good hitter, great fielder, will likely get better, and still cheap. He'd hit 40 HR's in GABP easily.

Dunn is one year from FA.

If we could somehow get Zimmermna for Dunn, we'd have to be estactic.

If Zimmerman isn't enough, then we will never trade Dunn, because we'll never get any more.

IMO it remains to be seen if he'll get that much better, people said that Brad Wilkerson would take off when he gout out of Washington's park, didn't happen.

I guess I just don't see what Zimmerman would bring that we don't already have other then salary relief in a bad free agent year.

Also, come on all..Bowden is not going to part with him, this is just more hyperbole from the king, remember when the Reds were ALWAYS about to acquire every player on the trade market before mean ole ownership told him no? ;)

Kc61
10-03-2007, 04:25 PM
Really?

Career OPS of .900 and .798 for a Career OPS of .812?

EE and Zimmerman have almost been a wash head to head in terms of stats and production, so why throw in Dunn? 2006 and 2007 were virtually the same for EE and Zimmerman. Zimmerman barely edges EE in RF and ZR, so the slight defensive upgrade doesn't merit giving up Dunn and EE for just Zimmerman.

I'd do it in a heart beat. As I've said in other posts, I'd rather expand the deal to get a reliever, but I'd do it anyway.

EE had all of 42 extra base hits in over 500 at bats this year -- playing in a bandbox.

Zimmerman had 24 homers and over 70 extra base (over 100 more at bats) playing in cavernous RFK stadium. Zimm just turned 23.

And, in a straight Dunn/EE for Zimm trade, the Reds' payroll gets cheaper so maybe they use the slot for a pitcher or another valuable player. Again, I'd try to get someone of value in addition to Zimm in such a deal, if possible.

Everyone is kidding themselves if they think the Reds have enough right handed power. They don't. I'll take Zimm over EE to make up that righty power shortage.

Eventually I see a lineup of -- Leadoff centerfielder (to be acquired), Hamilton, Bruce, Zimmerman, Votto, Phillips, Gonzo, catcher, pitcher. A young, brilliant lineup if you ask me.

Or, just staying in house -- Hamilton, Gonzo, Bruce, Zimmerman, Votto, Phillips, Stubbs, catcher, pitcher. Not too shabby.

M2
10-03-2007, 04:34 PM
Krono's right, Bowden's not trading Zimmerman, so this is all a non-starter.

As for why I'd like Zimmerman, I'm fond of his bat (good power even in RFK, as KC mentioned), but I adore his glove.

PuffyPig
10-03-2007, 04:38 PM
Really?

Career OPS of .900 and .798 for a Career OPS of .812?

EE and Zimmerman have almost been a wash head to head in terms of stats and production, so why throw in Dunn? 2006 and 2007 were virtually the same for EE and Zimmerman. Zimmerman barely edges EE in RF and ZR, so the slight defensive upgrade doesn't merit giving up Dunn and EE for just Zimmerman.


Firstly, Zimmerman has been compared to Rolen as far as fielding is concerned. EE has improved, but he's not in his class.

Secondly, I'd suggest that Zimmerman's .812 OPS would translate quite nicely into GAPB, and be above .900.

But you are correct, Dunn and EE is too much for Zimmerman. But, it could form the basis of a deal, if Washington could throw in a young pitcher that interested me.

Highlifeman21
10-03-2007, 04:45 PM
I'd do it in a heart beat. As I've said in other posts, I'd rather expand the deal to get a reliever, but I'd do it anyway.

EE had all of 42 extra base hits in over 500 at bats this year -- playing in a bandbox.

Zimmerman had 24 homers and over 70 extra base (over 100 more at bats) playing in cavernous RFK stadium. Zimm just turned 23.

And, in a straight Dunn/EE for Zimm trade, the Reds' payroll gets cheaper so maybe they use the slot for a pitcher or another valuable player. Again, I'd try to get someone of value in addition to Zimm in such a deal, if possible.

Everyone is kidding themselves if they think the Reds have enough right handed power. They don't. I'll take Zimm over EE to make up that righty power shortage.

Eventually I see a lineup of -- Leadoff centerfielder (to be acquired), Hamilton, Bruce, Zimmerman, Votto, Phillips, Gonzo, catcher, pitcher. A young, brilliant lineup if you ask me.

Or, just staying in house -- Hamilton, Gonzo, Bruce, Zimmerman, Votto, Phillips, Stubbs, catcher, pitcher. Not too shabby.

During that heartbeat, you're flushing your organization down the toilet.

You're giving away far too much offense, while gaining a slight defensive upgrade. IMO, Zimmerman will never produce at the offensive level of Dunn, and the defensive upgrade of Zimmerman over EE doesn't really seem to set him apart from EE as a total player, given their offensive production has been a wash for their careers. Do I like Zimmerman? Sure. Do I want to give up Dunn and EE to get him? Absolutely not.

I also want to know what pitching we'll be able to go out and get with the money saved by trading Dunn. What pitchers are out there via FA, or via trade that we can afford and realistically obtain that would substantially help us to make up for the loss of Dunn?

Benihana
10-03-2007, 05:06 PM
Dunn for Zimmerman? Yes please.

Next move is to package EE with any minor leaguer not named Cueto Bailey or Bruce for either Matt Garza or Jon Lester.

Dunn and EE for Zimmerman? No thanks.

I like EE, I'd prefer to keep him. There's not much on the Nats I'd want to trade Dunn for. I'd prefer Krivsky to look elsewhere for a trading partner.

red-in-la
10-03-2007, 05:52 PM
If you could get Zimmerman for Dunn, you move Votto to LF (which he appears to play pretty well) and move EE to 1B.

This is a great idea, if you could get Washington to go for it.

The Reds need to trade a LF power hitter for a RH one.....even if the power isn't as profuse, it would balance out by having a full season of Votto and Zimmerman. And the defense would improve.

Kc61
10-03-2007, 07:05 PM
During that heartbeat, you're flushing your organization down the toilet.

You're giving away far too much offense, while gaining a slight defensive upgrade. IMO, Zimmerman will never produce at the offensive level of Dunn, and the defensive upgrade of Zimmerman over EE doesn't really seem to set him apart from EE as a total player, given their offensive production has been a wash for their careers. Do I like Zimmerman? Sure. Do I want to give up Dunn and EE to get him? Absolutely not.

I also want to know what pitching we'll be able to go out and get with the money saved by trading Dunn. What pitchers are out there via FA, or via trade that we can afford and realistically obtain that would substantially help us to make up for the loss of Dunn?

You will never get Zimmerman -- or any other player of great value -- for Adam Dunn who has a one year deal at over $13 million. Zimmerman has great value because he is young, cheap, very good, and likely will be superb. As for his likely production, you totally ignore the fact that Dunn hits in home run paradise and Zimmerman in the Grand Canyon.

So to get Zim you need to add something to Dunn. Since you are acquiring a third baseman, I think EE is the choice.

I'd like more in return (Zim plus) but even if not, if the Nats ever would make such a deal, the Reds would be getting tremendous value. Zimmerman plus $13.5 million saved for Dunn and EE.

Now you may not see an immediate great use of $13.5 million because you don't like this particular free agent pitching crop. But to reduce payroll by that much while acquiring a player like Zim is a tremendous benefit to the Reds. It gives them enormous flexibility over the next couple of years, particularly when taken with the Milton contract coming off the books and Griffey's contract ending after 2008.

I think you are also dramatically overstating EE's market value. A third baseman with 42 extra base hits in 500 at bats can be a nice player, but isn't a plus guy at that position. EE certainly can start for many teams, but he has not shown the offensive pop to be a star third baseman.

This entire trade idea is obviously sheer speculation and highly unlikely, but looking at Dunn's contract and EE's numbers fans shouldn't overstate their value on the market.

REDREAD
10-04-2007, 12:54 AM
The scary thing is that Wayne is probably asking for two relievers for Dunn.
And, yes, I'm serious.

Patrick Bateman
10-04-2007, 12:59 AM
The scary thing is that Wayne is probably asking for two relievers for Dunn.
And, yes, I'm serious.

If that were true he likely would have been gone by the deadline.

Kc61
10-04-2007, 11:43 PM
By the way, anyone wondering whether Zimmerman would enhance the Reds' offense against lefties -- his OPS vs. left handers this year was 1.103. Batting average of .374. 147 at bats against lefties. Guy just turned 23 years old.

IslandRed
10-05-2007, 11:50 AM
Next move is to package EE with any minor leaguer not named Cueto Bailey or Bruce for either Matt Garza or Jon Lester.

Well, let's try to stay in the realm of reality here. If you had Matt Garza, would you trade him for Encarnacion and a B-level minor leaguer? I wouldn't.

KronoRed
10-05-2007, 01:59 PM
We need Wayne to pull another Arroyo for Wily Mo deal out of his hat.

Raisor
10-06-2007, 12:57 AM
We need Wayne to pull another Arroyo for Wily Mo deal out of his hat.

Why would the Reds want WMP back, especially for Arroyo?

RFS62
10-06-2007, 01:07 AM
Why would the Reds want WMP back, especially for Arroyo?

Well, maybe we could get him to rework his contract and send him back down to AAA to work on his game.

Just sayin'

KronoRed
10-06-2007, 01:38 AM
Why would the Reds want WMP back, especially for Arroyo?

So we could trade him for Arroyo again, with his old contract :D

paintmered
10-06-2007, 01:41 AM
Well, maybe we could get him to rework his contract and send him back down to AAA to work on his game.

Hey, now that's an idea! Why hasn't anyone thought of this until now?

KronoRed
10-06-2007, 01:43 AM
Hey, now that's an idea! Why hasn't anyone thought of this until now?

Maybe he can play 3rd?