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View Full Version : Interesting idea- Crisp in CF?



Benihana
10-03-2007, 03:16 PM
Many on this board clamor for the Reds to acquire a defensive CF. Coco Crisp is going to soon be on the move because the Sox need to open up room for Jacoby Ellsbury (as noted by mlbtraderumors.com)

According to the website, the Sox would be looking for 3B help in the event that they could not re-sign Mike Lowell. Kevin Youkilis is a natural 3B that could take Lowell's place, which would open up a spot at 1B. That got me to thinking...

What if the Reds pick up Hatteberg's option, then send him, plus another player, to the Red Sox in exchange for Coco Crisp, who is signed for the next two seasons at $5.25 MM per, with a club option (which the Reds love so much) for 2010, which would give the Reds flexibility pending the outcome of the Drew Stubbs project. The Hat returns to where he began his career, and gets to finish his career playing for a contender. Theo gets a second corner infielder who was the feature of a Moneyball chapter. Sounds like a match made in heaven.

I would love this deal for many reasons.

First, Hatteberg is completely superflous at this point with the emergence of both Votto and Cantu. However, his option is too cheap not to pick up relative to his production, so it leaves the Reds with a dilemma. This resolves that dilemma.

Second, the Reds acquiring the reasonably priced Crisp would immediately improve the OF defense, and allow them to play the Hambone in LF and Bruce in RF.

Third and most obviously, this would give the Reds the flexibility to move BOTH Jr. and Dunn, the latter if a great opportunity arises. If not, Dunn stays in LF and Bruce stays in Louisville until a good deal does arise.

Don't get me wrong, this is not intended to be yet another trade Dunn thread. I just wanted to provide a suggestion that works for both teams if a true defensive CF is what the Reds are seeking.

Your thoughts?

pedro
10-03-2007, 03:18 PM
I don't think Boston would be interested in Hatteberg.

redsmetz
10-03-2007, 03:21 PM
Is Bruce's defense that suspect? I've assumed from listening to others that Hamilton could slide over to right and Bruce could take CF. I just don't see any way to replace Dunn's production. Junior I think we can move and fill the hole. I don't think it's that easy viz Dunn.

I do like the approach about signing Hatteberg and then moving him (and that could mean during next season too). I just don't think you can replace the "elephant in the living room" - not trading Dunn.

Benihana
10-03-2007, 03:22 PM
I don't think Boston would be interested in Hatteberg.

That begs the question- who is the other player?

I say you start with a Juan Francisco, and pay up to a David Weathers if it gets the deal done.

Weathers is signed cheaply, but how long can he maintain this production? And more importantly, how long can you keep Burton out of the closer's role?

Benihana
10-03-2007, 03:23 PM
Is Bruce's defense that suspect? I've assumed from listening to others that Hamilton could slide over to right and Bruce could take CF. I just don't see any way to replace Dunn's production. Junior I think we can move and fill the hole. I don't think it's that easy viz Dunn.

I do like the approach about signing Hatteberg and then moving him (and that could mean during next season too). I just don't think you can replace the "elephant in the living room" - not trading Dunn.

I actually agree, and that's why I said I didn't want to make this into a Dunn thread. I just wanted to throw this idea out there for those that clamor for a true defensive CF

KronoRed
10-03-2007, 03:27 PM
The Red Sox being who they are can afford to let Crisp be overpaid, I'm thinking they will want a power hitting 1B if they let Lowell go.

Highlifeman21
10-03-2007, 03:37 PM
Many on this board clamor for the Reds to acquire a defensive CF. Coco Crisp is going to soon be on the move because the Sox need to open up room for Jacoby Ellsbury (as noted by mlbtraderumors.com)

According to the website, the Sox would be looking for 3B help in the event that they could not re-sign Mike Lowell. Kevin Youkilis is a natural 3B, that could take Lowell's place, which would open up a spot at 1B. That got me to thinking...

What if the Reds pick up Hatteberg's option, then send him, plus another player, to the Red Sox in exchange for Coco Crisp, who is signed for the next two seasons at $5.25 MM per, with a club option (which the Reds love so much) for 2010. The Hat returns to where he began his career, and gets to finish his career playing for a contender. Theo gets a second corner infielder who was the feature of a Moneyball chapter. Sounds like a match made in heaven.

I would love this deal for many reasons.

First, Hatteberg is completely superflous at this point with the emergence of both Votto and Cantu. However, his option is too cheap not to pick up relative to his production, so it leaves the Reds with a dilemma. This resolves that dilemma.

Second, the Reds acquiring the reasonably priced Crisp would immediately improve the OF defense, and allow them to play the Hambone in LF and Bruce in RF.

Third and most obviously, this would give the Reds the flexibility to move BOTH Jr. and Dunn, the latter if a great opportunity arises. If not, Dunn stays in LF and Bruce stays in Louisville until a good deal does arise.

Don't get me wrong, this is not intended to be yet another trade Dunn thread. I just wanted to provide a suggestion that works for both teams if a true defensive CF is what the Reds are seeking.

Your thoughts?

Kevin Youkilis is a natural 3B? Seems to be more of a natural 1B, IMO.

Hatteberg is not a good fit for Boston by any stretch of the imagination. He's worse than Hinske, who is the current backup to Youkilis. If Boston's really in a pinch, they can always put Ortiz at 1B.

As for the equation of Crisp + Bruce > Griffey + Dunn, I just don't buy it on many levels. Crisp's D will not make up for the big dropoff offensively compared to Griffey or Dunn, and Bruce will be a true rookie in 2008, and we can't expect him to put up numbers on par with Griffey or Dunn immediately.

Adding Crisp b/c of his D would net a similar result of adding Alex Gonzalez b/c of his D. It's just not a good bet.

bucksfan2
10-03-2007, 03:47 PM
I like the idea of Crisp in a reds Uni but unfortuantly without moving both Griffey this move doesn't work for me. The outfield is actually a position that the reds are set upon for next season and I dont see a way the reds can acquire Crisp and make this team better.

Johnny Footstool
10-03-2007, 03:49 PM
The thing about Crisp is that he is still young and he has shown that he has a good set of offensive tools.

I'd love for the Reds to acquire Crisp while his stock is relatively low. Unfortunately, I don't know if they have the right pieces to complete the deal. I doubt the Sox would simply give him away, but he could probably be acquired at a discount at this point.

IMO, the best solution would be to acquire Crisp and move Dunn to first.

Benihana
10-03-2007, 03:55 PM
Kevin Youkilis is a natural 3B? Seems to be more of a natural 1B, IMO.

Hatteberg is not a good fit for Boston by any stretch of the imagination. He's worse than Hinske, who is the current backup to Youkilis. If Boston's really in a pinch, they can always put Ortiz at 1B.

As for the equation of Crisp + Bruce > Griffey + Dunn, I just don't buy it on many levels. Crisp's D will not make up for the big dropoff offensively compared to Griffey or Dunn, and Bruce will be a true rookie in 2008, and we can't expect him to put up numbers on par with Griffey or Dunn immediately.

Adding Crisp b/c of his D would net a similar result of adding Alex Gonzalez b/c of his D. It's just not a good bet.


Nope, nope, nope. Incorrect on all accounts.

Youkilis has been a 3B all his life, including for the Red Sox before this season.

Again, I'm not suggesting the Reds jettison Dunn to make room for Crisp. I just said that there are a lot of people around here clamoring for a defensive CF (M2 comes to mind), and I think this would take care of that problem, without giving up any key parts of the team.

I would argue that Hinske is NOT better than Hatteberg, by any stretch. Please explain to me your logic, I would LOVE to hear it! Also, Big Papi playing 1B on a regular basis considered a viable option to anyone in the Boston front office. Theo Epstein is a Moneyball guy, and I think he wouldn't mind having the Hat on the team. Again, getting the deal done would depend on who the other player is.

Finally, you are not acquiring Crisp simply for his defense. You are acquiring a defensive CF that has also put up decent peripheral numbers in his day, and is relatively young and cheap.

Highlifeman21
10-03-2007, 04:29 PM
Nope, nope, nope. Incorrect on all accounts.

Youkilis has been a 3B all his life, including for the Red Sox before this season.

Again, I'm not suggesting the Reds jettison Dunn to make room for Crisp. I just said that there are a lot of people around here clamoring for a defensive CF (M2 comes to mind), and I think this would take care of that problem, without giving up any key parts of the team.

I would argue that Hinske is NOT better than Hatteberg, by any stretch. Please explain to me your logic, I would LOVE to hear it! Also, Big Papi playing 1B on a regular basis considered a viable option to anyone in the Boston front office. Theo Epstein is a Moneyball guy, and I think he wouldn't mind having the Hat on the team. Again, getting the deal done would depend on who the other player is.


Kevin Youkilis Games by Position
Year 1B 3B
2004 0 65
2005 9 24
2006 127 16
2007 135 13

2006 and 2007, Youkilis was their 1B, and prior to that, he wasn't good enough at the time to play ahead of the likes of Kevin Millar or Bill Mueller.

You're also basing the premise of obtaining Crisp on trading away our useless, spare parts. The Red Sox simply do not have a use for Hatteberg, and thus would not trade Crisp for Hatteberg. Obtaining Crisp would cost more than we could feasibly afford. As for Hinske vs. Hatteberg...


Hatteberg vs. Hinske

Career
Player Age G AB BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS #P/PA BB/PA BB/SO RF ZR
Hatteberg 37 1280 4174 555 496 .274 .363 .413 .776 4.01 .116 1.12 9.49 .862
Hinske 30 770 2525 299 605 .255 .336 .434 .770 3.94 .104 .49 9.66 .883



Hinske is 7 years younger, plays a better defensive 1B, and offensively they are the same. Hatteberg is an OBP driven OPS guy, Hinske is a SLG driven OPS guy. Youth gives the nod to Hinske. At 37, Hatteberg isn't likely to keep his OPS North of .800, while at 30, Hinske is more likely to improve or maintain, rather than drastically decline.

reds44
10-03-2007, 04:33 PM
Crisp (27)-
Career: .280/.329/.409
Season: .268/.300/.382

Yes, he does play great defense.

Now I am not a Norris Hopper fan, but I'm not so sure how much of an upgrade Crisp would be. He certainly wouldn't be the leadoff hitter the Reds need. Not to mention you would have to give something up to get him..

Highlifeman21
10-03-2007, 04:54 PM
Crisp (27)-
Career: .280/.329/.409
Season: .268/.300/.382

Yes, he does play great defense.

Now I am not a Norris Hopper fan, but I'm not so sure how much of an upgrade Crisp would be. He certainly wouldn't be the leadoff hitter the Reds need. Not to mention you would have to give something up to get him..

Defensively, I'd take Crisp over Hopper everyday of the week, and twice on Sundays.

Offensively, they both should be 4th OF.

Crisp's D warrants him to play everyday, Hopper, not so much. I'm just not so convinced the addition of Crisp's D would compensate for his lack of stick. I'd rather have Dunn/Hamilton/Griffey/Bruce offensively with the defense they bring to the table vs. having Crisp play everyday and stomaching his offense.

kheidg-
10-03-2007, 05:06 PM
No to Coco Crisp. I'd rather have a combo of Freel/Hopper manning CF if it came down to getting Crisp.

TeamBoone
10-03-2007, 11:11 PM
IMHO, the Reds already have a pretty good center fielder and is not a problem area that needs to be fixed.

Johnny Footstool
10-04-2007, 11:00 AM
Hopper's career-best SLG is .392. He did that in AAA.

Crisp slugged about .450 in Cleveland. Moving to Boston appears to have sapped his burgeoning power, but his BB rate seems to be improving.

I'm very interested in seeing what Boston wants in return for him.

Bill
10-04-2007, 12:40 PM
If it was two years, then yes, Crisp looks like a good cf target.

Now, no. Crisp is not the great CF you seek. Although he has good speed, he often gets bad jumps on the ball and his arm has always been weak. His offense seems to have evolved into a 710 ops hitter. I don't know if he was on juice for two years in Cleveland when he hit ~15 hrs/season 800 ops, but looking at his career stats, those two years were an aberration. I don't see paying 5 mill/year for an ok glove/weak bat is a good idea regardless of whom it cost in trade.

blumj
10-04-2007, 12:50 PM
Crisp is not the great CF you seek. Although he has good speed, he often gets bad jumps on the ball and his arm has always been weak.
He does have a weak arm, but he almost never gets bad jumps on the ball. Maybe he used to, but he sure doesn't now. I don't see a match here, anyway.

flyer85
10-04-2007, 12:58 PM
I don't think Boston would be interested in Hatteberg.ditto

Although I do think they would like to unload Crisp. I don't think Crisp would solve any problem the Reds currently have.

Bill
10-04-2007, 01:22 PM
He does have a weak arm, but he almost never gets bad jumps on the ball. Maybe he used to, but he sure doesn't now. I don't see a match here, anyway.

Could be. I have not seen him as much as when he was with the tribe. I've seen Gutierrez though a lot this season and there is a CF (stuck in rf) with an arm and speed. Perhaps Shapiro is willing to deal another Cf due to Sizemore being the long-term CF though I think they would have to take a corner OF back.

RedsManRick
10-04-2007, 03:26 PM
If you can trade Hatteberg for Crisp, there's no reason not to do that trade. But seeing as how Crisp will likely command much more than that, he doesn't add enough value to justify the deal with the Reds current compliment of 6 OF (Dunn, Jr, Hopper, Freel, Hamilton, Bruce).

Benihana
02-06-2008, 09:52 AM
From Rosenthal's latest...
Coco Crisp being signed through 2009 or '10 is an impediment for teams like the Cubs, White Sox, Twins, and Reds - they don't want to block their young outfielders. The Red Sox may not have a trading partner for Crisp.

My question is...what youngsters? Drew Stubbs? I would rather take a flier on Brian Anderson because we'd have to give up almost nothing to get him, but I also wouldn't mind snagging Crisp if we didn't have to give up much talent in return.

However, with Crisp I would rather wait until June or July, when we have a better idea of where we stand. If we are struggling to remain in contention, I say deal Jr. to a contender in exchange for some young pitching. Then make a move on Crisp, who if he is still with the Sox by then, they should be pretty desperate to dump given that he'll most likely be rotting on their bench. Then go with an OF of Dunn-Crisp-Bruce.

Furthermore, if Jr. (or Dunn) go down early this year with injuries, then I would also pull the trigger on a Crisp deal. Everyone on the board seems to agree we would be well served by a strong defensive CF for the next few years, particularly if he is going to be flanked by Dunn and Bruce, and everyone seems to concede that Stubbs can't be counted on until at least 2010 (if at all.) I say that Crisp is an option that shouldn't be ruled out. Corey Patterson is another guy that I would consider in either scenario, but I still like Brian Anderson the best.

PuffyPig
02-06-2008, 10:02 AM
Then make a move on Crisp, who if he is still with the Sox by then, they should be pretty desperate to dump given that he'll most likely be rotting on their bench.

Even if Coco is on the bench, I doubt the BoSox will be desaprate to dump him. Why would they be? Salary? BoSox? I doubt it.

Benihana
02-06-2008, 10:16 AM
Even if Coco is on the bench, I doubt the BoSox will be desaprate to dump him. Why would they be? Salary? BoSox? I doubt it.

The same reason they want to dump him now- his salary is not cheap (it's a waste, even for the Red Sox) and he is not getting any happier sitting on the bench, which is not something the Sox want in their clubhouse.

hippie07
02-06-2008, 10:53 AM
I've come around to the idea of someone like Brian Anderson, I think that deal will get done if WK wants a CFer and both teams match up... but do we even know if WK is looking for a CF... almost every rumor mentions the Reds when discussing who might be interested in guys like Crisp, Anderson, Patterson, Cameron, etc... but all those rumors are guesses.. stuff like "some teams that might be interested are the Reds....". I don't know if people just assume we're looking for a defensive CFer or we actually are looking for one... has anyone heard anything definitive?

Puffy
02-06-2008, 11:53 AM
The thing about Crisp is that he is still young and he has shown that he has a good set of offensive tools.

I'd love for the Reds to acquire Crisp while his stock is relatively low. Unfortunately, I don't know if they have the right pieces to complete the deal. I doubt the Sox would simply give him away, but he could probably be acquired at a discount at this point.

IMO, the best solution would be to acquire Crisp and move Dunn to first.

Ding, ding, ding, ding - we have a winner.

Griffey in left, Crisp in Center, Bruce in right, Dunn at first.

That would be your best offensive and defensive combos - so if the Red Sox like Votto......

reds44
02-06-2008, 11:56 AM
I wouldn't even think about giving up Votto for Coco.

lollipopcurve
02-06-2008, 12:00 PM
I wouldn't even think about giving up Votto for Coco.

Concur 100%.

Benihana
02-06-2008, 12:05 PM
Concur 100%.

yep

RedsManRick
02-06-2008, 12:23 PM
Dunn at 1B, Votto in LF, Coco in CF, Bruce in RF. There's your lineup if you insist on moving Dunn. Trade prospects for Coco and let Junior walk in 2009.

That said, I seriously Dunn signs an extension if we move him to 1B. He's already voiced his dislike of the position. Sure, it's not his choice so long as he's here -- but I can see him going elsewhere rather than moving.

Puffy
02-06-2008, 12:24 PM
I wouldn't even think about giving up Votto for Coco.

Why?

Dunn is a first basemen. We all know this. Why are people afraid of admitting it. Votto is a first basemen. Who would you rather have?

Coco Crisp is vastly underrated by those on this board.

reds44
02-06-2008, 12:35 PM
Why?

Dunn is a first basemen. We all know this. Why are people afraid of admitting it. Votto is a first basemen. Who would you rather have?

Coco Crisp is vastly underrated by those on this board.
Or you could keep them both?

Falls City Beer
02-06-2008, 12:41 PM
I'd rather put *CRIPS* in CF. Shoot the ball out da sky.

RedsManRick
02-06-2008, 12:41 PM
Votto versus Dunn at 1B: If Votto becomes the hitter he's projected to be (.280/.360/.500), he plays better defense, and costs $10M less, then we wouldn't prefer Votto and spend Dunn's money elsewhere -- like pitching?

Keeping Dunn for our 1B and moving Votto for a player making millions seems like an awfully bad idea to me.

pedro
02-06-2008, 12:42 PM
Or you could keep them both?

I'm not super hot on the idea of Crisp but if Dunn stays past this year it needs to be at 1B.

That leaves no place for Votto.

blumj
02-06-2008, 12:45 PM
Why?

Dunn is a first basemen. We all know this. Why are people afraid of admitting it. Votto is a first basemen. Who would you rather have?

Coco Crisp is vastly underrated by those on this board.
Crisp had a sensational season defensively last year, and 2 good offensive seasons a few years ago, but he's yet to do both at the same time. He might not be able to, and he's not that cheap anymore. Plus, Dunn playing 1B has been such a non-starter so many times already that I think you have to believe there's a reason for that. And the Red Sox already have a 1st baseman(and 3B, DH, LF), too.

Puffy
02-06-2008, 12:57 PM
I'm not super hot on the idea of Crisp but if Dunn stays past this year it needs to be at 1B.

That leaves no place for Votto.

This is what I'm saying. Its why I hated the Hamilton trade.

IMO, Votto has always been the one who should have been traded. And I wouldn't give Dunn the "option" to play 1B - I'd tell him, "you are" the first basemen. Prolong your career, less wear and tear on your knees, more time for your jokes with other players, etc.

pedro
02-06-2008, 01:04 PM
This is what I'm saying. Its why I hated the Hamilton trade.

IMO, Votto has always been the one who should have been traded. And I wouldn't give Dunn the "option" to play 1B - I'd tell him, "you are" the first basemen. Prolong your career, less wear and tear on your knees, more time for your jokes with other players, etc.

I liked the Hamilton trade myself.

puca
02-06-2008, 01:09 PM
Crisp's .329 career OBP really doesn't do much for me. Not for that coin. This team has enough guys that don't get on base.

Unless, of course, he was an unworldy defensive CF (which he is not) or we could get him for KGJ (which we could not).

RedsManRick
02-06-2008, 01:18 PM
This is what I'm saying. Its why I hated the Hamilton trade.

IMO, Votto has always been the one who should have been traded. And I wouldn't give Dunn the "option" to play 1B - I'd tell him, "you are" the first basemen. Prolong your career, less wear and tear on your knees, more time for your jokes with other players, etc.

Again, does a .920 OPS, poor defending Dunn making 12-15M guaranteed for the next 5 years really make more sense at 1B than an .850 OPS, average defending Votto making $300k and under control for the next 6 years?

If you're insistent on trading one (and you should be IMO), I think the better case can be made for moving Dunn and keeping Votto. Forced to choose, I'll gladly take Votto's upside/downside combo at the price of free than the upside/downside combo of Dunn at $12M+. If you could've turned Votto in to Bedard and signed him long term, maybe this is a different conversation. But the idea of turning Votto in to Crisp is a horrible use of our resources.

PuffyPig
02-06-2008, 01:25 PM
This is what I'm saying. Its why I hated the Hamilton trade.

IMO, Votto has always been the one who should have been traded. And I wouldn't give Dunn the "option" to play 1B - I'd tell him, "you are" the first basemen. Prolong your career, less wear and tear on your knees, more time for your jokes with other players, etc.

Moving Dunn to first base (against his wishes) is an extremely effective way of ensuring he doesn't sign with us.


Notwithstanding that what you say has real merit. Convincing Dunn of that is the rub.

M2
02-06-2008, 01:40 PM
It's no secret the Reds need defense in the OF. After this season, they might just need OFs, period.

If Crisp can be scored for a modest return, I'm for it. It probably would mean Jay Bruce stays in AAA until Jr. gets injured. Ideally I'd prefer Crisp and Bruce out there, but at least it would put the Reds one step closer to having two capable defenders in the OF.

pedro
02-06-2008, 01:42 PM
It's no secret the Reds need defense in the OF. After this season, they might just need OFs, period.

If Crisp can be scored for a modest return, I'm for it. It probably would mean Jay Bruce stays in AAA until Jr. gets injured. Ideally I'd prefer Crisp and Bruce out there, but at least it would put the Reds one step closer to having two capable defenders in the OF.

How's Crisp's arm?

The Reds are horribly deficient when it comes to OF assists. It'd be nice to get someone out there that can throw.

bucksfan2
02-06-2008, 02:00 PM
I like the idea of adding Crisp. It gives the reds something they really need in an above average defensive outfielder. It would also give them speed at the top of the lineup or speed off the bench. He really isn't that expensive until his option year and has a .5M buyout. IMO it would be a good move looking foreward to 09 when Griffey could come off the books. If you could move Freel and a mid level prospect that I would be all for it.

blumj
02-06-2008, 02:32 PM
How's Crisp's arm?

The Reds are horribly deficient when it comes to OF assists. It'd be nice to get someone out there that can throw.
Then you don't want Crisp, he's a noodle arm.

fearofpopvol1
02-06-2008, 02:32 PM
I like the idea of Crisp in a reds Uni but unfortuantly without moving both Griffey this move doesn't work for me. The outfield is actually a position that the reds are set upon for next season and I dont see a way the reds can acquire Crisp and make this team better.

This basically sums up how I feel. It would make more sense a year from now than it does this upcoming season. And I think they'd have to give up more than Hatte to get Crisp.

KronoRed
02-06-2008, 03:08 PM
The Dunn to 1st plan sailed off a few years ago and it won't be back, more likely Dunn will move on and Votto will be at 1st.

M2
02-06-2008, 03:47 PM
How's Crisp's arm?

The Reds are horribly deficient when it comes to OF assists. It'd be nice to get someone out there that can throw.

What blumj said, he's got a popgun out there.

FWIW, I've always been a little skeptical about the run value of an arm in the OF. Seems to me that if you can catch extra balls and cut off extra balls headed into the gap, that will dwarf anything your arm does or doesn't do.

Chip R
02-06-2008, 03:48 PM
The Dunn to 1st plan sailed off a few years ago and it won't be back, more likely Dunn will move on and Votto will be at 1st.


If you looked at things like that, Jr. would still be playing CF.

KronoRed
02-06-2008, 03:57 PM
If you looked at things like that, Jr. would still be playing CF.

Perhaps, but with JR he wasn't even asked to move before, with Dunn they had a plan all set to go with him at 1st, and then they abandoned it and signed Hatteberg, he must really loath the base ;)

blumj
02-06-2008, 04:37 PM
What blumj said, he's got a popgun out there.

FWIW, I've always been a little skeptical about the run value of an arm in the OF. Seems to me that if you can catch extra balls and cut off extra balls headed into the gap, that will dwarf anything your arm does or doesn't do.
I don't know how much you were watching the Sox last season, but it got to a point where I was surprised every time a flyball touched grass in any part of CF when Crisp was out there, that's how infrequently it seemed to happen. The noodle-arm seemed totally inconsequential in comparison.

M2
02-06-2008, 05:50 PM
I don't know how much you were watching the Sox last season, but it got to a point where I was surprised every time a flyball touched grass in any part of CF when Crisp was out there, that's how infrequently it seemed to happen. The noodle-arm seemed totally inconsequential in comparison.

Yep, he seemed to catch everything.

Highlifeman21
02-06-2008, 07:18 PM
Yep, he seemed to catch everything.

Certainly something lacking in the Queen City.

osuceltic
02-06-2008, 07:44 PM
I've been hoping we'd make a move for Crisp throughout the offseason. I think he'd be a great pickup.

hippie07
02-08-2008, 01:39 PM
Okay, I'm not sold on us needing Crisp but mlbtraderumors are implying that he'll be shopped hard now for pitching after the Schilling thing..

Might be a good time to pick him up (even though we don't have much pitching) .... think we could get him for Maloney+ ??

edabbs44
02-08-2008, 02:01 PM
Okay, I'm not sold on us needing Crisp but mlbtraderumors are implying that he'll be shopped hard now for pitching after the Schilling thing..

Might be a good time to pick him up (even though we don't have much pitching) .... think we could get him for Maloney+ ??

Nope. I think Boston would want someone more ML ready if the Schilling thing will cause them to shop Crisp.

BRM
02-20-2008, 12:14 PM
LINK (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/02/coco_i_want_to.html)



Coco Crisp arrived at spring training today ready to take on Jacoby Ellsbury in the battle for the center field job. He spoke with the media at his locker upon coming in to the minor league complex. Though he did not say that he was looking for a trade now, he did say that it might become a conversation later in spring training, depending on what happens with the competition.

When reminded that his agent had said, in the offseason, that if Crisp didn't win the center field job it might be best to move him, Crisp was asked if those conversations might be revisited if Ellsbury wins the job.

"Honestly, I think so," Crisp said. "'Cause I want to play. Like I said, I wouldn't be happy sitting on the bench. A lot of people say, well, I don't deserve it. Well, that's understandable too. I didn't have a good offensive year like I did in the past. I think I proved myself that I can win healthy and shown that my defense is way better than what people thought. People think that my offense is terrible. Now it's time to show them that my offense really isn't. Went through a couple of bruised up years, everybody goest through that. Unfortunately I just went through that when I came over here to mega-media central."

When asked if he thought he was going to get a fair shot at winning the starting job in center field, Crisp said he didn't really know.

"I'm not sure," he said. "I'm not sure how everything's going to break down. I'm really unsure of a lot of things this year and, with that, all I can do is just go out there and, like I said, try to have fun like I did in the past. Just go station to station and go through the workout."

He said he didn't know how to rate how likely it was that he would break camp still with the Red Sox. He has been keeping track of trade rumors only through his agent, speculating on how it would feel to be with a team, say the Cubs. But other than that, he just worked out and played with his kids this offseason, knowing that he would have no control over his team for 2008.

fearofpopvol1
02-20-2008, 02:12 PM
Well, if he doesn't win the job in CF, the Reds should absolutely make a play for him as the demand will clearly be less.

hippie07
02-20-2008, 02:25 PM
Wow - don't know what kinda player he is .. you'd expect most guys to say "I'm going to win the job period"... and then if he doesnt then he makes the kinda statements that you read above about not being happy... I dont know.. he sounds a little soft 2 me

traderumor
02-20-2008, 02:27 PM
I don't know how much you were watching the Sox last season, but it got to a point where I was surprised every time a flyball touched grass in any part of CF when Crisp was out there, that's how infrequently it seemed to happen. The noodle-arm seemed totally inconsequential in comparison.Not to get off on a tangent, but it seems that there are many more tests to an OFer's range than there is their throwing arm, so if I had to take either/or, gimme the range.

Will M
02-20-2008, 02:30 PM
Not to get off on a tangent, but it seems that there are many more tests to an OFer's range then there is their throwing arm, so if I had to take either/or, gimme the range.

this is very true for a centerfielder. while Hamilton last year and Bruce this year will be ok in CF they are natural right fielders. they just don't have the blazing speed to play a great centerfield, especially with Dunn in LF and Griffey in RF.

kbrake
02-20-2008, 02:46 PM
Wow - don't know what kinda player he is .. you'd expect most guys to say "I'm going to win the job period"... and then if he doesnt then he makes the kinda statements that you read above about not being happy... I dont know.. he sounds a little soft 2 me

To me I thought it sounded refreshingly honest. It might not have been what everyone wanted to hear or expected him to say but its most likely how he really feels.

hippie07
02-20-2008, 02:50 PM
maybe its honest, but I think a competitor never gives up the boat as much as it sounds like Crisp has, IMHO.

GoReds
02-20-2008, 02:54 PM
Good idea for next year. Where does he play this year? Who sits?

Do you send Votto to the Sox and have Dunn and Junior play rock/paper/scissors to decide who goes to first?

If you do that, then who plays first next year?

I just don't see a whole lot of ways to make the puzzle pieces fit this year and next without finding a way to include Dunn or Griffey in another immediate transaction.

kbrake
02-20-2008, 03:06 PM
Good idea for next year. Where does he play this year? Who sits?

Do you send Votto to the Sox and have Dunn and Junior play rock/paper/scissors to decide who goes to first?

If you do that, then who plays first next year?

I just don't see a whole lot of ways to make the puzzle pieces fit this year and next without finding a way to include Dunn or Griffey in another immediate transaction.

Bruce learns better plate discipline in AAA until Griffey goes down then Bruce takes RF and Crisp plays center the whole time. Then next season with Griffey gone you have an OF of Dunn, Crisp, Bruce.

RedsManRick
02-20-2008, 03:22 PM
I have no problem with the idea of acquiring Crisp. He makes a reasonable salary, $4.75M this year and $5.75M in 2009 ($8M option with $.5M buyout in 2010. and would help the OF defense immensely.

However, who do you trade for him? So long as Keppinger is the RH 1B, I don't think you can afford to move Freel. Obviously Stanton comes up, but he has no trade value. Even if they'd take Stanton to balance out salaries, how do we provide them value? Hatteberg doesn't work since they signed Casey.

Will M
02-20-2008, 03:42 PM
Bruce learns better plate discipline in AAA until Griffey goes down then Bruce takes RF and Crisp plays center the whole time. Then next season with Griffey gone you have an OF of Dunn, Crisp, Bruce.

:thumbup:

fearofpopvol1
02-20-2008, 04:18 PM
I have no problem with the idea of acquiring Crisp. He makes a reasonable salary, $4.75M this year and $5.75M in 2009 ($8M option with $.5M buyout in 2010. and would help the OF defense immensely.

However, who do you trade for him? So long as Keppinger is the RH 1B, I don't think you can afford to move Freel. Obviously Stanton comes up, but he has no trade value. Even if they'd take Stanton to balance out salaries, how do we provide them value? Hatteberg doesn't work since they signed Casey.

Maybe Hopper and a prospect? While Hopper is inferior to Crisp, it does give them a backup and it also gives salary relief. I just don't know what kind of prospect it would take to pry Crisp away.

jojo
02-20-2008, 06:07 PM
Payroll is already teetering on the $80M mark. I don't think we're going to see another $4-5M added unless it's a trade deadline deal and the Reds are sniffin' something special. Personally, i think Blanton's salary ($3.7M) is a factor in why Cueto isn't wearing an Athletics jersey right now. It might not be the biggest factor but I think it's an issue that has helped tip the scales toward caution for a FO that seems unsure of whether to pull the trigger with Beane.

Also, concerning outfielders I think arm strength is generally overrated for OFers and I'd take range over arm everyday in each OF position all other things being equal.

blumj
02-20-2008, 08:34 PM
Even if they'd take Stanton
:eek: Hey! That's just mean. What did I ever do to you?