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Matt700wlw
10-04-2007, 04:01 PM
10/04/2007 1:00 PM ET
Q&A with Reds GM Wayne Krivsky
General manager recaps 2007 season, looks toward 2008
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com



CINCINNATI -- Having finished his second season as Reds general manager, Wayne Krivsky will now spend the offseason gearing up for the 2008 season.
Krivsky recently spoke with MLB.com, expressing his thoughts about 2007 and some of the decisions that loom for the Reds in the future.

MLB.com: Obviously, the record (72-90) didn't turn out how you wanted when looking at the bottom line. But when you look back on the season, what do you take out of it, positive and negative?

Krivsky: Unless you're playing beyond, in this case, Sept. 30, you haven't satisfied the goals you set out in Spring Training. On the other hand, there are positive things you can take out of the season, despite what your record might be at the end. There were a lot of positives in our year, from an individual standpoint.

As a team, we fell short. A lot of individuals had good years, good development years and good statistical years. But there's always room to improve. The offseason is an important time for players to work on the things that they need to improve on, whether it's conditioning, playing winter ball, getting stronger, going through the proper postseason routines to get ready for Spring Training and another year. It goes by fast. We'll be at Spring Training before you know it. Everybody has to look in the mirror and figure out what they need to do to get better, and consequently, to make the team better. That includes the general manager.

MLB.com: Do you anticipate a busier offseason than last year?

Krivsky: Ask any general manager, every winter is busy. I don't know that you differentiate. People ask what you do in the offseason. In some ways it can be as hectic or more so than the season. You don't have a set routine because you really don't have a schedule to follow like you do during the season. There are meetings to attend -- organizational meetings, GM meetings, Winter Meetings. Some of that is already prearranged. There's no way to predict how the winter will unfold.

The bottom line is we're here to build a winning organization and put a team on the field that can compete and ultimately win a championship. That's what we're all about. It's a work in progress. Whatever you planned on having, it rarely follows it to the letter. That's why you have to be flexible and adjust to the changing times, whether it's injuries or what have you. You have to be able to overcome those. That's where depth comes in and your Minor Leagues come in. Our depth has been tested. At the same time, I feel good that we have improved our depth the last year or two since I've been here.

MLB.com: When you don't reach your goals, it's no fun. On that basis, was doing your job this season personally less enjoyable -- especially the day-to-day grind of it?

Krivsky: Being in baseball is fun. We're all lucky to be in the game. The challenge is fun. Putting together a team is fun, whether it's on the field or off the field. It's not fun firing people, don't get me wrong. The goal here is to bring in as many good people as we can. We're all going to work toward a common goal and that's putting the best team out there that has a chance to win year in and year out. And whether it's the Minor Leagues, amateur scouting, pro scouting, international scouting and Latin America, it all comes together and you just have to keep plugging and keep grinding. It's a marathon. Your work is never done.

MLB.com: You have a lot of players with 2008 club options on their contracts. What is the timetable or deadline to pick them up?

Krivsky: There are dates and days in their contracts. They vary. It's all negotiable at the time of the contract. At the appropriate time, we'll announce them.

MLB.com: Can you gauge in the chances, in any way, for somebody like Adam Dunn returning?

Krivsky: No. I'm not going to get into that.

MLB.com: You brought in Pete Mackanin as interim manager. How do you think he handled the job this summer?

Krivsky: Great. He did a heck of a job. He came in when we were 20 games under .500, embraced the challenge and accepted the role of an interim manager as well as you can. I remember at his press conference he said, 'Whether it's two days, three days, two weeks, a month or the rest of the year, I'm here to do the best I can for the organization.' From my standpoint, you can't ask for anything more than he's given us. We've had a lot of good moments the second part of the year and he was in charge.

MLB.com: It's safe to say you will be looking around and interviewing other candidates?

Krivsky: Pete is a candidate. He's definitely a candidate. People ask me about timetables and there isn't one. The sooner we know, it takes the uncertainty out of people's minds that are here. I'm sensitive to the part about Pete and the coaches and what their status is. I'd like to have something resolved sooner rather than later. Timetables can't be controlled to the letter. We'll do the best we can to arrive at that decision so that people can move on with their lives, whether they're staying or looking somewhere else. Pete hasn't done anything to eliminate himself or take himself out of consideration. He's done a great job

RedsManRick
10-04-2007, 04:08 PM
Outside of the blantant Dunn non-answer and the Petey Mack comment, Krivsky sure did a lot of parroting back the question.

MLB.com: Given A, what do you think about B.

Krivksy: A, yes A exists.

JaxRed
10-04-2007, 04:27 PM
I was going to say..... I like Wayne, but that was a whole lot of nothing

pedro
10-04-2007, 04:28 PM
so?

westofyou
10-04-2007, 04:32 PM
Interviews with MLB.com is akin to Pravda interviewing Khrushchev.

redsmetz
10-04-2007, 04:32 PM
Did anyone seriously expect anything different? He has shown a propensity to keep his cards close to his vest. What did anyone expect regarding the question of Dunn? He can't talk about who he might be targeting, etc. It's a fluff piece at a time when that's essentially what you're going to get on a piece like this.

15fan
10-04-2007, 04:35 PM
Interviews with MLB.com is akin to Pravda interviewing Khrushchev.

:clap:

wheels
10-04-2007, 05:53 PM
He's still a much more enjoyable read/listen than DanO.

RFS62
10-04-2007, 07:38 PM
He's still a much more enjoyable read/listen than DanO.


Yeah, but we lost our Redsland dramatic recreations of DanO's dialogue.

WVRedsFan
10-04-2007, 07:40 PM
He's still a much more enjoyable read/listen than DanO.

That's like saying Moms Mabley was a more enjoyable read/listen than Phyllis Diller.

I have no ideas what people see in Wayne Krivsky, but I don't see it and probably never will.

That said, his extensive non-answers and toally void personality tire me to the point that I don't care if he stays or he goes. I give up.

RFS62
10-04-2007, 07:41 PM
Here's a sample of Classic Redsland doing DanO....


Truly the news today causes a variety of effects, both physiological and psychosocial, but none more so than those with us now. Obviously the events of the day were precipitated by a litany of precursors, some in our control, and others less so. Still, as I look at the open yardage ahead, I know that other days will be like this one to one degree or another, but largely by happenstance rather than by design. Because let me be clear: a bucket is not a tree house, nor should it. With that I’ll take a few questions.


http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42487

edabbs44
10-04-2007, 07:59 PM
Did anyone seriously expect anything different? He has shown a propensity to keep his cards close to his vest. What did anyone expect regarding the question of Dunn? He can't talk about who he might be targeting, etc. It's a fluff piece at a time when that's essentially what you're going to get on a piece like this.

Very true, but Krivsky has to know that he is not winning many fans over with the team he has put on the field.

Maybe he should try another route and try to get the fans a little fired up for the offseason, instead of basically reading his answers from the Guide to Playing the Middle.

This question/answer kind of bothered me:


MLB.com: Do you anticipate a busier offseason than last year?

Krivsky: Ask any general manager, every winter is busy. I don't know that you differentiate. People ask what you do in the offseason. In some ways it can be as hectic or more so than the season. You don't have a set routine because you really don't have a schedule to follow like you do during the season. There are meetings to attend -- organizational meetings, GM meetings, Winter Meetings. Some of that is already prearranged. There's no way to predict how the winter will unfold.

The bottom line is we're here to build a winning organization and put a team on the field that can compete and ultimately win a championship. That's what we're all about. It's a work in progress. Whatever you planned on having, it rarely follows it to the letter. That's why you have to be flexible and adjust to the changing times, whether it's injuries or what have you. You have to be able to overcome those. That's where depth comes in and your Minor Leagues come in. Our depth has been tested. At the same time, I feel good that we have improved our depth the last year or two since I've been here.

He had a shot to really make a statement. Say "You know, I've gotten clearance from ownership to really make some noise this offseason and we are prepared to make a statement to the NL that the Reds are ready to contend." Or something like that. Instead, we were told that they are here to "build a winning organization." Thank God for that. If they weren't here for that reason, then we'd really be in trouble.

I'd really like to see someone, anyone, ask him some really tough questions.

redsmetz
10-04-2007, 08:54 PM
This question/answer kind of bothered me:


The bottom line is we're here to build a winning organization and put a team on the field that can compete and ultimately win a championship. That's what we're all about. It's a work in progress. Whatever you planned on having, it rarely follows it to the letter. That's why you have to be flexible and adjust to the changing times, whether it's injuries or what have you. You have to be able to overcome those. That's where depth comes in and your Minor Leagues come in. Our depth has been tested. At the same time, I feel good that we have improved our depth the last year or two since I've been here.

I don't question that the reporter was throwing him lollipops - but seriously, we've had the BS for several years with Bowden and then with O'Brien. I'd rather have a straight shooter. Honestly, at this point, what on earth is he supposed to say? I think he's given a fairly realistic statement as to how a typical winter will progress. Honestly, we've become so used to the yammering of the previous two GM's, I'm not at all surprised he's tight lipped. The season's not even a week past - there's absolutely nothing that can be done yet. I'm not going to lose too much sleep over an innocuous interview that doesn't really say anything.

pedro
10-04-2007, 09:14 PM
MLB.com interviews are the equivalent of company news letters.

GAC
10-04-2007, 09:16 PM
so?

Exactly. Look at how ridiculous the questions were?


MLB.com: Do you anticipate a busier offseason than last year?

What are you suppose to say in response to that question? :lol:


MLB.com: You have a lot of players with 2008 club options on their contracts. What is the timetable or deadline to pick them up?.... Can you gauge in the chances, in any way, for somebody like Adam Dunn returning?

None of your business! What GM is gonna answer those questions? Give me a break!

Ltlabner
10-04-2007, 09:45 PM
He had a shot to really make a statement. Say "You know, I've gotten clearance from ownership to really make some noise this offseason and we are prepared to make a statement to the NL that the Reds are ready to contend."

And if Wayne had not been given that clearance? I don't think it's unreasonable that BCast has not yet given the OK for a budget for next year. I'm sure he has an idea, but it's not totally loopy to think there are other considerations that BCast wants to nail down before getting really concrete with a budget.

In other words, I think it's pretty unrealistic to ding Wayne for not saying something we don't even know has been decided yet.

edabbs44
10-04-2007, 10:21 PM
He had a shot to really make a statement. Say "You know, I've gotten clearance from ownership to really make some noise this offseason and we are prepared to make a statement to the NL that the Reds are ready to contend." Or something like that.


And if Wayne had not been given that clearance? I don't think it's unreasonable that BCast has not yet given the OK for a budget for next year. I'm sure he has an idea, but it's not totally loopy to think there are other considerations that BCast wants to nail down before getting really concrete with a budget.

In other words, I think it's pretty unrealistic to ding Wayne for not saying something we don't even know has been decided yet.

You forgot that bolded part of my quote. Makes a rather large difference.

I think it is realistic for Wayne to look at the current state of the roster, the current "buzz" among the fans, and the immediate future of this organization and see that it needs help. For him to take part in an interview like that and answer with the company line of "We're here to build a winning organization" is pretty darn lame, IMO.

I would love to have been that interviewer and follow that answer up with "Thanks Wayne. You could hear the collective exhale across Reds Nation, since they were unsure whether you were here to build either a winning or losing organization. Glad we cleared that up."

Ltlabner
10-04-2007, 10:38 PM
You forgot that bolded part of my quote. Makes a rather large difference.

Actually, no. It doesn't.

Again, assuming he's not been given a budget then he's got nothing to talk about there. He's certinally not going to spill the beans on any current/upcomming negotiations with Reds players. He's not going to comment on potential trade targets as that's a horrable appraoch to take. He's not going to be able to comment on the manager next year. Nor the effect of a managerial change on the current coaching staff. (nor should he discuss such things in the press).

Maybe he could be very specific about the new carpeting in the front office? Would that qualify as "or something like that" ?

Frankly, I can't blame him for not sharing much. The second he puts a specific detail out there, he'll have to listen to the wailing and gnashing of teath if that detail changes, they go down a different path or something doesn't work out.

You continue to demand that he carve out a specific manifesto. Yet, it's pretty obvious that there's nothing really concrete to say at this point. It's pretty obvious MLB.com isn't going to pin him to a wall. It's pretty obvious that Wayne prefers to play it close to the vest (right or wrong).

I hear you that it would be great if Wayne were some sort of PT-Barnum. He isn't. Isn't going to be.

edabbs44
10-04-2007, 10:45 PM
Maybe he could be very specific about the new carpeting in the front office? Would that qualify as "or something like that" ?

No...maybe he can give the fan base a reason to believe in him. This interview does nothing in that way. Maybe he doesn't care about the fan base. Maybe he doesn't care about what the fans think of him. That's fine...if you put a winning product on the field.


You continue to demand that he carve out a specific manifesto. Yet, it's pretty obvious that there's nothing really concrete to say at this point. It's pretty obvious MLB.com isn't going to pin him to a wall. It's pretty obvious that Wayne prefers to play it close to the vest (right or wrong).

All I demand is for this franchise to do something to show us that they know what they are doing and that they have a plan in place to make this team into a winner. Wayne can play it as close to the vest as he wants...as long as he succeeds as a GM.

marcshoe
10-04-2007, 10:52 PM
Hmmm...why do the words "heck of a job" seem so familiar? ;) Is there a subtext here? A sort-of-Freudian-slip, maybe?

(nah. I don't think so either.)

Ltlabner
10-04-2007, 10:54 PM
No...maybe he can give the fan base a reason to believe in him. This interview does nothing in that way.

The point is, there is nothing he can say in an MLB.com interview within a week of the end of the season that is going to give the fan base a reason to believe in him. There's just nothing concrete to discuss.

I know, I know. He doesn't have anything to say, he shouldn't give the interview.

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

BCubb2003
10-05-2007, 12:27 AM
"Our problems are glaring. We need to add two middle relievers and a starter. Those guys aren't in our organization right now, so it'll be expensive. If a closer is available, we'll make a serious effort to get him, but that'll add to the bill.

"We could add a little more offense, but we're in decent shape there and in fact we'll probably have to trade some offense to get that pitching we need. But offense never brings as much pitching as you need.

"Free agents? Bob says we can do it, but if the best free agent pitcher out there is Kyle Lohse, then no thanks.

"So next season you'll see less offense, a solid but not spectacular bullpen, and a rotation of Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Belisle and an expensive but risky new starter.

"I hope that answers your question, Biff."

WVRedsFan
10-05-2007, 12:29 AM
The point is, there is nothing he can say in an MLB.com interview within a week of the end of the season that is going to give the fan base a reason to believe in him. There's just nothing concrete to discuss.

I know, I know. He doesn't have anything to say, he shouldn't give the interview.

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

He could have at least shown some enthusiasm. He's got the personality of a sledgehammer. No warmth anywhere (except when he cried over Jerry), and that's not his fault. That's the way he is.

He's always been a back room guy working behind the scenes. He doesn't play well in print, in audio, and especially on TV. His answers like "I won't go there every day" do nothing to make anyone feel better.

The interview was fodder to fill up space and WK should have known that and declined.

pedro
10-05-2007, 12:33 AM
How does someone exude warmth and enthusiasm in a print interview in which they are the the person being interviewed?

"Excuse me Mark but would you mind putting a smiley face and an exclamation point on the end of that last answer, I want to make sure I'm connecting with the fans :) ! "

westofyou
10-05-2007, 01:04 AM
The interview was fodder to fill up space and WK should have known that and declined.

Only problem is it's generated from the industry that he works for...

WVRedsFan
10-05-2007, 01:45 AM
How does someone exude warmth and enthusiasm in a print interview in which they are the the person being interviewed?

"Excuse me Mark but would you mind putting a smiley face and an exclamation point on the end of that last answer, I want to make sure I'm connecting with the fans :) ! "

You ever seen him on TV (sure you have)? You ever heard him in an audio interview? Personality? No.

As a big disciple of XM's baseball programming, he comes across as a guy who just wants to do his job and not be bothered. That's OK if he's successful, as he may be, but in times of trouble, Wayne comes across as your cross uncle who just doesn't want to be bothered. That is, unless you really like him or your're family or you think he is horribly successful. Then it doesn't matter.

To get the fan base off of neutral and avoid scenes like at the park the last week of the season, when Cubbie fans took over the stadium, someone has to be enthusiastic. I fear that isn't Wayne.

Ltlabner
10-05-2007, 06:49 AM
To get the fan base off of neutral and avoid scenes like at the park the last week of the season, when Cubbie fans took over the stadium, someone has to be enthusiastic. I fear that isn't Wayne.

Sorry WVRedsFan, I know you're not a Wayne fan (which is your right obviously) but claiming the reason we didn't do well in 2007 was because Wayne wasn't peppy and engaging in interviews seems like reaching for something to slag on him.

I agree that it would nice if he was an interesting PT Branum-like fellow, but I'm not going to suggest the teams ills are because he doesn't hold my attention in interviews.

RFS62
10-05-2007, 07:22 AM
I think they should have asked him something like...


"If you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be, and why?"

GAC
10-05-2007, 08:30 AM
You ever seen him on TV (sure you have)? You ever heard him in an audio interview? Personality?

Have you ever spoke to him person? I have. I had two separate conversations with him at the WLW booth last year at Redsfest. The guy not only came there to make himself available to the questioning (and scrutiny) of the fans there; but I also found him to be not only very personable, but also interested in wanting to know what my feelings were, as well as all the other fans there that came to him with questions. And the guy wasn't aloofly sitting behind a booth and mike either. He was out wandering and mingling with the crowds. I was somewhat impressed.

It just wasn't the fans asking him questions.... he was also hitting up the fans with various questions on numerous topics, areas of the team,and some of the players.

I told him flat out that the Milton contract was a stinker and he ought to get rid of him if there were any buyers. :lol:

You know what his response back to me was? Exactly what I'd expect him, or any GM, to say...... He's under contract, not much we can do except hope (and expect) him to contribute this year. We'll just have to wait and see.

He also didn't dodge fan's questions about such areas of concern as the putrid perfromance of the bullpen and starting pitching in '06, Jr moving to RF, and some other hot button issues.

And maybe he does get a little frustrated, and his responses at times seem "plain" and unexciting. But put yourself in his shoes. If you keep getting hit with the same redundant questions over and over, you'd probably start responding in a similar manner.

So WK is not a charismatic public speaker. Maybe he needs to take a class on public PR. But Bowden was a charismatic speaker in front of the mike.... and also one of the biggest BS artists I ever heard.

redsmetz
10-05-2007, 08:45 AM
So WK is not a charismatic public speaker. Maybe he needs to take a class on public PR. But Bowden was a charismatic speaker in front of the mike.... and also one of the biggest BS artists I ever heard.

A very important point - Bowden at one time was a bit of a wunderkind - but he became very full of himself and ultimately was quite a huckster. He had sound bites galore and much of it proved to be fairly flimsy. I'll grant that his tenure was coupled with the Marge Schott era, but I wish we would have had a
non-charismatic, straight arrow who might have steered Marge away from only helping the ML club while decimating the system. We're still digging out from that. I'll take plain vanilla and a good organization over the smoke and mirrors of Jim B.

Chip R
10-05-2007, 09:09 AM
Have you ever spoke to him person? I have. I had two separate conversations with him at the WLW booth last year at Redsfest. The guy not only came there to make himself available to the questioning (and scrutiny) of the fans there; but I also found him to be not only very personable, but also interested in wanting to know what my feelings were


He was interested in your feelings? :eek:

RedsManRick
10-05-2007, 09:16 AM
And maybe he does get a little frustrated, and his responses at times seem "plain" and unexciting. But put yourself in his shoes. If you keep getting hit with the same redundant questions over and over, you'd probably start responding in a similar manner.

I know this doesn't apply universally, but one way to get people to stop asking the same questions is answering them sufficiently the first time or making it quite clear that you never will answer it. His answers usually come somewhere in between.

GAC
10-05-2007, 09:55 AM
I know this doesn't apply universally, but one way to get people to stop asking the same questions is answering them sufficiently the first time or making it quite clear that you never will answer it. His answers usually come somewhere in between.

True. But it depends on the question being asked too. Some can't be answered sufficiently enough to please some fans. Or it's not the answer they want to hear. In some of those cases I simply say "Too bad". If someone asks him what future moves he is going to make to address this bullpen or pitching staff, or if he is gonna resign Adam Dunn, then what is he suppose to say? Is he then required, because of the enquiring minds of the fans who feel they need to know, to lay out specifics as to who he is trying to acquire or interested in? Or in the case of Dunn, publically make a declaration that might not come true, and might come back to haunt him and hang him out to dry?

Fans seem to want him to give guarantees (absolutes), and no GM can do that.

A vast majority of GMs are not going to get into specifics, depending on the type of question asked. They do that, and then it doesn't mainfest, then they really are going to get railed on. No GM, if they are smart, is going to unnecessarily stick their necks out like a Thanksgiving Day turkey. Because there are some fans who would love them to do that so they can chop it off. ;)

For example - he knows we need improvement in the areas of the bullpen and starting pitching. But I don't know what kind of specifics he is suppose to give the fans other than he realizes the problem, and they are going to do their best in the off season to address those issues and others. What else can the guy say?

I'm sure behind closed doors he says this bullpen sucks; but he's not gonna say it publically just so the fans can hear him say it. Bad PR.

And he has been pretty straightforward, and at times very blunt, in answering certain specific questions. Such as in this interview concerning Dunn.....


MLB.com: Can you gauge in the chances, in any way, for somebody like Adam Dunn returning?

Krivsky: No. I'm not going to get into that.

I've heard him express that straighforward bluntness in other interviews too. It's that bluntness - not being charismatic and cheery enough I guess - that some are complaining about.

I'd rather he be blunt then a smooth-talker.

If someone asked me a loaded question like "What changes are you gonna make to get us into the post-season next year", I'm probably gonna feed them a line of PR crap too! :lol:

WVRedsFan
10-05-2007, 10:03 AM
Sorry WVRedsFan, I know you're not a Wayne fan (which is your right obviously) but claiming the reason we didn't do well in 2007 was because Wayne wasn't peppy and engaging in interviews seems like reaching for something to slag on him.

I agree that it would nice if he was an interesting PT Branum-like fellow, but I'm not going to suggest the teams ills are because he doesn't hold my attention in interviews.

How in the world did you get that out of my post? If I'm not mistaken, we were discussing one interview and his presentation skills. Only. At this point in time, I don't give a you know what about Wayne Krivisky or whether he stays here or goes to Mongolia. I think he's here 5 years at least and I've got to root for him because he the only hope we've got as a GM.

He gives a poor presentation on TV and radio. And no, GAC, I have never met or talked to the man. I've seen him once in person. That does not change the fact that on TV and radio he gives the impression that he's a cold fish and not enthusiastic. That's all most of the fan base knows, including me since so many of us do not have access.

Good grief, the lengths some will go to to defend this man is simply unbelievable. Maybe you're right and I'm totally wrong. so be it, but I was only trying to convey what I got out of that interview and others on XM. Nothing more.

westofyou
10-05-2007, 10:08 AM
Good grief, the lengths some will go to to defend this man is simply unbelievable

I thought the same thing.

Except "defend" wasn't the word I was thinking of.

GAC
10-05-2007, 10:14 AM
Good grief, the lengths some will go to to defend this man is simply unbelievable. Maybe you're right and I'm totally wrong. so be it, but I was only trying to convey what I got out of that interview and others on XM. Nothing more.

I only defend the man when I think he is being unfairly/unjustly characterized, or people are reaching. It certainly doesn't mean that I have never shook my head or questioned any of his moves/decisions. Because I have.

If Jocketty isn't a good, smooth talking, public speaker then he better stay away from Cincy. :lol:

RedsManRick
10-05-2007, 10:18 AM
GAC, the Dunn question was definitely one where he was clear that wasn't going to answer it. I'd much rather be told no than have smoke blown up my butt.

GAC
10-05-2007, 10:23 AM
GAC, the Dunn question was definitely one where he was clear that wasn't going to answer it. I'd much rather be told no than have smoke blown up my butt.

But how is he blowing smoke up your butt by saying he wasn't going to address the issue at this time?

If you're privately negotiating with someone, or even planning to in the near future, why would you reveal your hand concerning those deliberations? Maybe he couldn't answer it because they have already tendered an offer to Dunn's agent and are waiting for a response? There are all types of scenarios that could be present/active, as well as viable, that guides him in giving the answer he did.

It's not an issue of appeasing the fans, telling them what they want to hear; but has more to do with dealing with Dunn and his agent.

You're saying they need to come out and tell the fans either YES or NO and get this waiting on Dunn's situation over with because the suspense is killing us?

edabbs44
10-05-2007, 10:48 AM
I only defend the man when I think he is being unfairly/unjustly characterized, or people are reaching. It certainly doesn't mean that I have never shook my head or questioned any of his moves/decisions. Because I have.

If Jocketty isn't a good, smooth talking, public speaker then he better stay away from Cincy. :lol:

If Jocketty were to come into Cincy and put a winning product on the field, he could give interviews like Mike Tyson and I couldn't care less.

Look at it this way...Bill Gates isn't "PT Barnum" or anyone of the sort. I don't think his shareholders give a crap either way, as long as his stock price keeps rising and he keeps putting out great earnings. If MS were to go into the tank, I seriously doubt he would be at a shareholder meeting saying "We are here to raise the share price and increase earnings", and leave it at that. If he did, I think there would be an avalanche of selling going on directly after that meeting.

At this time, all Wayne needs to do is exude a little confidence and hope. I'm left wondering why that is so difficult.

westofyou
10-05-2007, 10:49 AM
Look at it this way...Bill Gates isn't "PT Barnum" or anyone of the sort

That's why he had Steve Baumer.

GAC
10-05-2007, 11:02 AM
If Jocketty were to come into Cincy and put a winning product on the field, he could give interviews like Mike Tyson and I couldn't care less.

No way he could do so if given the same time frame you, And others, have given Krivsky. Didn't you want him replaced after the ASB last year, or even after the end of his first season on the job?

If they hire Jocketty, are you going to be calling for his head after the '08 season?


At this time, all Wayne needs to do is exude a little confidence and hope. I'm left wondering why that is so difficult.

Oh....you want him to BS you; but do so with a convincing, believeable, smile on his face! :lol:

RedsManRick
10-05-2007, 11:07 AM
But how is he blowing smoke up your butt by saying he wasn't going to address the issue at this time?

If you're privately negotiating with someone, or even planning to in the near future, why would you reveal your hand concerning those deliberations? Maybe he couldn't answer it because they have already tendered an offer to Dunn's agent and are waiting for a response? There are all types of scenarios that could be present/active, as well as viable, that guides him in giving the answer he did.

It's not an issue of appeasing the fans, telling them what they want to hear; but has more to do with dealing with Dunn and his agent.

You're saying they need to come out and tell the fans either YES or NO and get this waiting on Dunn's situation over with because the suspense is killing us?

D'oh. I completely really clear. The Dunn was response was a good thing -- I appreciated it.. I wish he'd be that blunt with his other responses.

GAC
10-05-2007, 11:10 AM
D'oh. I completely really clear. The Dunn was response was a good thing -- I appreciated it.. I wish he'd be that blunt with his other responses.

Now you're speaking my language RR and it makes sense.

(I need to go to bed. I'm a 3rd shifter and been up all night) :lol:

edabbs44
10-05-2007, 06:34 PM
No way he could do so if given the same time frame you, And others, have given Krivsky. Didn't you want him replaced after the ASB last year, or even after the end of his first season on the job?

OK...do you think he could do better than increase payroll by 16% and lose 8 games in the standings? I think he has a shot at doing that.

Giving Wayne more time isn't the magic panacea for the franchise. True, he could take a huge leap forward. But he can also set the franchise back a few years. I've seen enough of him to think that he isn't the guy for the job.


If they hire Jocketty, are you going to be calling for his head after the '08 season?

If his idea of improving the state of the franchise is spending millions of dollars on mediocre and/or elderly players while not being aggressive in the draft and intl FA market to improve the pitching of this franchise, then yep. I'd be all over him.

GAC
10-05-2007, 07:03 PM
If his idea of improving the state of the franchise is spending millions of dollars on mediocre and/or elderly players while not being aggressive in the draft and intl FA market to improve the pitching of this franchise, then yep. I'd be all over him.

He's done his share of that too.

Have you ever asked yourself why he was fired/exiting the Card's organization after winning the WS 2 years ago?

I think that is a very vaild question. It's not a knock on Jocketty; but I'd like to know why he is exiting? He didn't resign. They fired him.

You're one who follows the minor leagues more then me. We've had discussions on WK's last 2 drafts, pitchers selected, and that you feel he's not done a very good job at it. You've been very critical of WK in this area.

What's Jocketty's record in this area? Where are all these young arms he has drafted, developed, and brought up through their system?

He traded away a Haren for the likes of a Mulder. He got fleeced in that deal IMO.

I'm just not that impressed with his record of building "patchwork" pitching staffs. He's been able to take advantage of free agency and various trades in that time; but hasn't built nothing really enduring/stable IMO. And sooner or later that well runs dry. Then what do you have to fall back on?

RedsManRick
10-05-2007, 07:23 PM
Now you're speaking my language RR and it makes sense.

(I need to go to bed. I'm a 3rd shifter and been up all night) :lol:

Jesus. I think I've typed something completely nonsensical in every single post today... I guess sleep is more important that I thought.

Ltlabner
10-05-2007, 08:22 PM
Good grief, the lengths some will go to to defend this man is simply unbelievable..

I guess if you consider any opinion regarding Wayne that differs from yours "defending" him then you'll continue to view things through that prisim.

But I'd hardly call saying that slagging on him for not being peppy and chipper seems like a reach an unreasonable defense at all costs.

pedro
10-05-2007, 08:24 PM
I guess if you consider any opinion regarding Wayne that differs from yours "defending" him then you'll continue to view things through that prisim.

But I'd hardly call saying that slagging on him for not being peppy and chipper seems like a reach an unreasonable defense at all costs.

No kidding.

edabbs44
10-05-2007, 08:33 PM
He's done his share of that too.

Have you ever asked yourself why he was fired/exiting the Card's organization after winning the WS 2 years ago?

I think that is a very vaild question. It's not a knock on Jocketty; but I'd like to know why he is exiting? He didn't resign. They fired him.

You're one who follows the minor leagues more then me. We've had discussions on WK's last 2 drafts, pitchers selected, and that you feel he's not done a very good job at it. You've been very critical of WK in this area.

What's Jocketty's record in this area? Where are all these young arms he has drafted, developed, and brought up through their system?

He traded away a Haren for the likes of a Mulder. He got fleeced in that deal IMO.

I'm just not that impressed with his record of building "patchwork" pitching staffs. He's been able to take advantage of free agency and various trades in that time; but hasn't built nothing really enduring/stable IMO. And sooner or later that well runs dry. Then what do you have to fall back on?

First, I don't think I've ever really busted out the pom poms for Jocketty.

Now, on you your post.

Definitely got fleeced for Haren...but he also drafted Haren.

Looking at his draft history, I don't see much major success in the area of drafting pitching going back a few years. What I do see, though, is an effort of drafting college pitching towards the front of the draft.

2007: Mortensen (1s), Kopp (2), Todd (2)
2006: Ottavino (1), Perez (1s), Furnish (2)
2005: McCormick (1s), Herron - HS (1s), Wilson - HS (2), Webber (2)

That's what I would like to see from Wayne.

Now...if he was/is able to build some of the staffs Jocketty has put together, then drafting pitching would be a little less of a concern. I'm not sure how you're not "impressed" which his "patchwork" pitching staffs.

Look at some of these numbers:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/2004.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/2005.shtml

What did it cost him to get Suppan? How about Marquis, who came to St Louis with Wainwright? Look a those bullpen numbers. Say what you will, but they have had some solid pitching staffs in recent times.

GAC
10-05-2007, 08:41 PM
I'm not sure how you're not "impressed" which his "patchwork" pitching staffs.

Look at some of these numbers:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/2004.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/2005.shtml

What did it cost him to get Suppan? How about Marquis, who came to St Louis with Wainwright? Look a those bullpen numbers. Say what you will, but they have had some solid pitching staffs in recent times.

I didn't say he hasn't had some success with some of those pitching staffs. What I am inferring is that "methodology" or approach is gonna backfire on you at some point. That "well", especially in this market for pitching, is gonna run dry, or you're gonna end up sacrificing/paying more out then you want to when you don't make the effort, or even have the ability, to stock your system, and develop, your own young arms.

You're then at the mercy of the market.

I don't find it to be a long term, consistent forumla for success.

What was his answer for the Card's pitching woes this year... and for that matter in the near future? Maybe that's one of the reasons for his removal there. He has strained their payroll financially with some of these other guaranteed contracts, and there are no immediate answers, as far as their pitching goes, from within, and they don't have the payroll leniency to go out and give big money to anyone, which is what they have relied on in the recent past.

RedsManRick
10-05-2007, 08:41 PM
One of the problems (supposedly) is that Jocketty didn't get along very well with some of his colleagues, including those responsible for the draft and the quant analysis crew. Not placing blame anywhere in particular, just something that's notable.

edabbs44
10-05-2007, 08:50 PM
I didn't say he hasn't had some success with some of those pitching staffs. What I am inferring is that "methodology" or approach is gonna backfire on you at some point. That "well", especially in this market for pitching, is gonna run dry, or you're gonna end up sacrificing/paying more out then you want to when you don't make the effort, or even have the ability, to stock your system, and develop, your own young arms.

You're then at the mercy of the market.

I don't find it to be a long term, consistent forumla for success.

What was his answer for the Card's pitching woes this year... and for that matter in the near future? Maybe that's one of the reasons for his removal there. He has strained their payroll financially with some of these other guaranteed contracts, and there are no immediate answers, as far as their pitching goes, from within, and they don't have the payroll leniency to go out and give big money to anyone, which is what they have relied on in the recent past.

I agree with you. But you kind of did talk about his success.


I'm just not that impressed with his record of building "patchwork" pitching staffs.

But I agree with what you are saying. That success won't last forever. You're gonna crap out sooner or later. Maybe he understood that and that's why he started loading up the early rounds in recent drafts with pitching, pitching and more pitching.

For this year, no matter who you are it is kind of tough to recover from losing one of the best pitchers in baseball like what happened with Carpenter.

WVRedsFan
10-05-2007, 09:35 PM
I guess if you consider any opinion regarding Wayne that differs from yours "defending" him then you'll continue to view things through that prisim.

But I'd hardly call saying that slagging on him for not being peppy and chipper seems like a reach an unreasonable defense at all costs.

Once again. I never said that him not being "peppy and chipper" was a reason to fire him. In fact, I prefaced my remarks with I didn't care if he was GM or not. And I don't. But to merely say the guys a personality cripple brings up all kinds of wailing and gnashing of teeth among some people.

He's your GM. Enjoy his work.

GAC
10-06-2007, 06:16 AM
He's your GM. Enjoy his work.

He's not "your" GM also? :cool: