What is the most powerful conference in college football?

[WMR]

Me and my buddy were debating the Pac-10 and the SEC today... what say you?

[justincredible]

SEC

[GoReds33]

I like the SEC, but I believe that the teams in the Big East are really good. I think that any year a team could win that confrence, because the talent is spread out. In the SEC teams have hot and cold spells. I think all the teams in the Big East will maintain their success. It also doesn't hurt that I'm a huge UC fan.

[OnBaseMachine]

As a huge fan of offense, the Pac-10 and WAC are my favorite two conferences.

[WVRed]

SEC, and its not even close.

LSU and Florida are almost always in the title chase, Georgia and Tennessee are always threats year in and year out. South Carolina is on the rise. Auburn and Alabama both have storied pasts. On top of that, the team ranked no 8 this past week would probably be considered eighth best in the conference most years.

[KronoRed]

Sun Belt, no question
:D

[OnBaseMachine]

SEC, and its not even close.

LSU and Florida are almost always in the title chase, Georgia and Tennessee are always threats year in and year out. South Carolina is on the rise. Auburn and Alabama both have storied pasts. On top of that, the team ranked no 8 this past week would probably be considered eighth best in the conference most years.

Correction. Georgia and Tennessee are always overrated every year. ;)

[jmac]

Correction. Georgia and Tennessee are always overrated every year. ;)

Not every year ! They have had a couple of down years though.
Teams at the top of conferences probably make several conferences close.
Example : Fla LSU from SEC
USC , Oregon from Pac 10
WV,Cincy,Rutgers USF from Big East
etc
I think SEC stands out when you go down further in each conference and get Arkansas,Alabama, Georgia,Auburn UK etc
Though some have down years , you still are looking at a tough schedule game in and game out !

[WVRed]

I like the SEC, but I believe that the teams in the Big East are really good. I think that any year a team could win that confrence, because the talent is spread out. In the SEC teams have hot and cold spells. I think all the teams in the Big East will maintain their success. It also doesn't hurt that I'm a huge UC fan.

Of all the teams in the Big East, I think the only one that could hang with an SEC power would be South Florida.

Speed is the name of the game in the SEC. Rich Brooks made the comment that when he took over at Kentucky, he didn't have a player who could run under 4.40, now he has fifteen. WVU for example has speed on offense, but doesn't have it on defense. If you want to see how to stop Steve Slaton, watch tapes of the South Florida game.

The real question is, has teams from the Big East played anybody out of conference?

[MaineRed]

Gotta agree with WVRed here.

Florida and LSU are as good a pair as you can name from another conference. Pac 10 fans will scream USC and Cal but where is Cal most years?

The tenth best team from the SEC, Arkansas has the guy many consider to be the Heisman front runner. There are no Heisman canidates playing for Stanford or Oregon State. Kentucky is in the top ten, for another day any way, S.Carolina is going to take there place and Auburn after two early losses, one of which was to South Florida looks to be a team on the rise after pounding Vandy today. Some figured on a letdown after the Gator win but they rolled.

Perhaps Tennessee and Georgia are overrated but they are still better 7th place teams than 7th place teams from other conferences. If Georgia played AT Arizona ten times, they would win at least 8 of them IMO. Same for Tenn, Alabama, Auburn and perhaps even Miss St.

The SEC is just a great conference. Year in and year out. They play exciting football. They have super passionate fans. They send guys to the NFL. Its a power conference.

I think the Big 12, year in and year out is the second best conference. Oklahoma and Texas are the mainstays but there are always some other teams in the mix. Lately it hasn't been anyone consistent but from a depth standpoint the Big 12 is pretty good. Texas Tech ends up at the 7th or 8th bowl team sometimes and they can light it up.

I'd have to put the Big 10 in 5th, behind the ACC and Pac 10 and ahead of the Big East.

[MaineRed]

To add on, the Big East is sort of having a down year. Louisville has been awful. Rutgers lost to an ACC also ran and despite it allowing the rise of another team, the conferences only real national title canidate has already lost.

Yes Cincy has risen up but they haven't beaten anyone. The 5-0 record is decieving.

I think WVR is half right on the Big East. I think West Virginia could handle themselves in the SEC along with USF. But that is it. Lousiville and Cincy would get their asses handed to them.

[WVRed]

To add on, the Big East is sort of having a down year. Louisville has been awful. Rutgers lost to an ACC also ran and despite it allowing the rise of another team, the conferences only real national title canidate has already lost.

Yes Cincy has risen up but they haven't beaten anyone. The 5-0 record is decieving.

I think WVR is half right on the Big East. I think West Virginia could handle themselves in the SEC along with USF. But that is it. Lousiville and Cincy would get their asses handed to them.

While the offense of Pat White, Steve Slaton, and Noel Devine is tantalizing, their main focus is to try and outrun their opponents. That works, when the defenses of other teams cannot react. WVU fans here will make the case that Pat White has a very high completion percentage, but if he threw the ball as much as Andre Woodson, he would be picked off at least twice a game. I would venture to say if WVU played in the SEC that they would be lucky to see the top 25, but you could make the case about Kentucky as well.

That is the major flaw of the Big East, where the defenses are very inadequate. South Florida is the only team this year that has shown a defense out of that conference. All it takes is a quick defense and a coach who can disguise coverage and teams like WVU or Louisville have no chance.

[GoReds33]

To add on, the Big East is sort of having a down year. Louisville has been awful. Rutgers lost to an ACC also ran and despite it allowing the rise of another team, the conferences only real national title canidate has already lost.

Yes Cincy has risen up but they haven't beaten anyone. The 5-0 record is decieving.

I think WVR is half right on the Big East. I think West Virginia could handle themselves in the SEC along with USF. But that is it. Lousiville and Cincy would get their asses handed to them.They just beat Rutgers. Now you can say they beat somebody. Bearcats are going into the top 15!:)

[joshnky]

I like the SEC, but I believe that the teams in the Big East are really good. I think that any year a team could win that confrence, because the talent is spread out. In the SEC teams have hot and cold spells. I think all the teams in the Big East will maintain their success. It also doesn't hurt that I'm a huge UC fan.

I'm a big Louisville fan and I still cringe at your suggestion. As far as records go, there may be a team out of the Big East that goes undefeated but the league can't really compete with the SEC or PAC10 this year. Last year, with strong WV, Louisville, and Rutgers teams the league made a statement but it still hasn't reached the top tier and has even fallen off a little this year.

[joshnky]

They just beat Rutgers. Now you can say they beat somebody. Bearcats are going into the top 15!:)

The question is: who has Rutgers beaten this year to make them "somebody?"

[paintmered]

Yes Cincy has risen up but they haven't beaten anyone. The 5-0 record is decieving.

How is that 6-0 record looking now?

[dougdirt]

How is that 6-0 record looking now?

Pretty good from where I am sitting. :thumbup::beerme:

The SEC is the best conference in college football and I don't think its that close really. They have the top end teams, and even as you go further down, their depth is just stronger than everyone elses.

[Cedric]

While the offense of Pat White, Steve Slaton, and Noel Devine is tantalizing, their main focus is to try and outrun their opponents. That works, when the defenses of other teams cannot react. WVU fans here will make the case that Pat White has a very high completion percentage, but if he threw the ball as much as Andre Woodson, he would be picked off at least twice a game. I would venture to say if WVU played in the SEC that they would be lucky to see the top 25, but you could make the case about Kentucky as well.

That is the major flaw of the Big East, where the defenses are very inadequate. South Florida is the only team this year that has shown a defense out of that conference. All it takes is a quick defense and a coach who can disguise coverage and teams like WVU or Louisville have no chance.

Really? You don't know much about College football if you don't realize UC has a great defense. They did last year also.

Mike Mickens and Byrd are two of the best players at their positions in the nation. They are loaded.

The SEC hype is just hilarious and it never stops.

[Cedric]

Pretty good from where I am sitting. :thumbup::beerme:

The SEC is the best conference in college football and I don't think its that close really. They have the top end teams, and even as you go further down, their depth is just stronger than everyone elses.

Really? I'll take Cal and USC over any combination you can find in the SEC. People just buy into hype because of one football game. A game where Ohio State had 51 days off and a overweight, unprepared Qb.

What happened in the other Big Ten vs SEC bowl games? Ohio State has the fastest team on paper in the nation and yet nobody would believe that because of stupid stereotypes. Look at the NFL if you want to argue about the top end Big Ten teams and speed. Compare Ohio State top picks to anyone and it's gonna come out OSU. The NFL likes speed a little.

What team other than LSU is truly great in that conference? Where is this supposed awesome depth? Georgia is terrible. Tennessee got killed by Cal. Auburn? Alabama?

They have two really good teams and a bunch of average ones after that. Sounds like almost every other conference. They just have the hype.

[KronoRed]

Really? I'll take Cal and USC over any combination you can find in the SEC. People just buy into hype because of one football game. A game where Ohio State had 51 days off and a overweight, unprepared Qb.

What happened in the other Big Ten vs SEC bowl games?

So let me get this straight, the other Big10/SEC bowl games were a true example of which conference is better but the BCS title game doesn't count because Osu had 51 days off compared to Florida's 37?

Do they put that in the media guides? a little * maybe?

SEC hype maybe, but I see a pro big 10 agenda right here.

[Cedric]

So let me get this straight, the other Big10/SEC bowl games were a true example of which conference is better but the BCS title game doesn't count because Osu had 51 days off compared to Florida's 37?

Do they put that in the media guides? a little * maybe?

SEC hype maybe, but I see a pro big 10 agenda right here.

Did I say that? My point is the only thing you hear about is the Ohio State vs Florida game. NOBODY mentions the other important match ups. If you want to compare conferences then you shouldn't let the media hype be the only thing that is talked about.

I never once said those other bowl games were the true proof of the better conference. I'm just amazed at how good the SEC and CBS do at promoting their conference. Hell, they have their own announcers sound like total homers on the air. I would be embarrassed if I was a fan of one of their schools. Gary Danielson was just hilarious and stupid last year.

[KronoRed]

CBS has the SEC so they promote them, no different then ESPN/ABC and the Big 10/ACC schedule they run with.

Also nobody else in this thread has mentioned LAST year, it's a thread about who is the best right now.

[RBA]

PAC 10 is the best, obviously.

[Caveat Emperor]

If you want to compare conferences then you shouldn't let the media hype be the only thing that is talked about.

I don't think the media hype is relevant.

The fact is that I don't think there is a single Big 10 team that would win a best-of 3 series against LSU, Florida, or South Carolina right now...and you could make a pretty good argument for Kentucky being better than the majority of the Big 10 right now.

Down year for the B11, good year for the SEC. This one isn't even close.

[jmcclain19]

I voted the Sun Belt.

Because you can't get enough North Texas & Arkansas State, obviously.

That - and I couldn't choose between the Pac-10 & SEC.

One of the talking heads (Not on CBS) tonight talked about LSU struggling to go undefeated because "The SEC is so tough top to bottom" - then mentioned two minutes later that USC finally was "exposed by a weaker Pac10 squad"

So USC loses to another Pac-10 Squad - it's because they were exposed, yet if LSU can't make it thru the SEC it will be because of the depth of the SEC? Um...sure thing - try and wrap your brain around that logic.

[GAC]

The SEC, no doubter.

I don't know if I'd even give the Big Ten an honorable mention right now. I listened to Lee Corso yesterday say that OSU is as good as, and can play with, any team in the country. Even as a Buckeye fan, all I can say is "Lee, Lee, Lee". They are better than I expected after losing alot after last year, but other than Washington, who have the Bucks played?

And we got powerhouse Kent State next week! http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/rolleyes009.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

I am impressed though with a young Illinois team.

[Redsfaithful]

The SEC, no doubter.

I don't know if I'd even give the Big Ten an honorable mention right now. I listened to Lee Corso yesterday say that OSU is as good as, and can play with, any team in the country. Even as a Buckeye fan, all I can say is "Lee, Lee, Lee". They are better than I expected after losing alot after last year, but other than Washington, who have the Bucks played?

And we got powerhouse Kent State next week! http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/rolleyes009.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

I am impressed though with a young Illinois team.

Ohio State's defense is pretty outstanding this year. They just don't let anyone score, and yeah they haven't played anyone really, but I'm still impressed that their highest points allowed is against Washington where they gave up 14. Their other five games they've given up 7 or less.

I came into this year hoping for a BCS bowl, but it looks like the Buckeyes have as much of a chance as anyone to go win a national championship so I figure now is as good a time as any to start looking towards that. I think the Buckeyes are actually a better team than they were last season.

Also going to agree with Cedric that the SEC hype is ridiculous. I do think they are the best conference this year, probably, but it's also been a really weird year in college football, one where I still don't think we have any idea of who the top fifteen teams are in the country. So who knows really.

[GAC]

Ohio State's defense is pretty outstanding this year. They just don't let anyone score, and yeah they haven't played anyone really, but I'm still impressed that their highest points allowed is against Washington where they gave up 14. Their other five games they've given up 7 or less.

But has their defense really been tested by a solid offense? I listened to some of the "experts" build up last night's game vs Purdue, and that Purdue has the #1 offense in the Big Ten. But they have played the likes of Toledo, Eastern Illinois, Central Michigan, and Minnesota. I knew they were gonna get exposed last night vs the Buckeye's defense.

But just as Purdue's offense was finally shown for what it is. Can the same be said about OSU's defense, which hasn't exactly played any offensive dynamos so far.

I'm not saying their defense isn't good. Just maybe not as good as some are saying.


I came into this year hoping for a BCS bowl, but it looks like the Buckeyes have as much of a chance as anyone to go win a national championship so I figure now is as good a time as any to start looking towards that. I think the Buckeyes are actually a better team than they were last season.

Not saying they aren't. I came into this season, after seeing all that the Bucks lost after last year, with not too high of hopes.

But then I've been stunned at the stumbling of Michigan this year too, who came in with such high expectations.

But HOW is this year's OSU team possibly better then last years?


Also going to agree with Cedric that the SEC hype is ridiculous. I do think they are the best conference this year, probably, but it's also been a really weird year in college football, one where I still don't think we have any idea of who the top fifteen teams are in the country. So who knows really.

I look at the Pac-10 and SEC, and right now, I'd say they have better, more talented teams. It's gonna be hard for any team in those divisions to go undefeated because they are going to beat up on each other. I'm not saying that every team in those conferences is solid; but they, IMO, appear to have more talented teams then what I am seeing in the Big Ten right now.

I really don't see anyone in the Big Ten, other then that last game at Michigan, giving OSU much trouble. So that is what I am saying.... OSU could very well run the table and make it into the NC game only to be exposed again.

I guess what I am saying is that I am wary. ;)

But I will admit that they are performing better this year then I expected. Tressel is not playing as conservative. I have been really impressed with their balanced attack and Todd Boeckman's passing efficiency.

[RedsBaron]

The SEC is the most consistently dominant conference. Another conference may on occasion rival the SEC, but year-in, year-out, no other conference has as consistently produced such a great number of quality teams.

[MaineRed]

How is that 6-0 record looking now?

It still looks decieving. When the polls come out there will be no wins over anyone in the Top 25 with a signature win over a Rutgers team that has now lost two in a row and has proven it is not the contender folks thought they were.

The Bearcats remind me of Purdue. All kinds of hype as they rip thru a bunch of cream puffs but as soon as they play someone really good they will get ripped apart, just like the Boilers did last night at home to OSU.

Cincy is a nice story but to pretend they have arrived and now are a part of big boy college football is taking it a little too far.

I remember a thread during basketball season about Syracuse's ridiculous out of conference schedule. Well Cincy might have the easiest non conference schedule of any team from a power conference in America.

Oregon State, Marshall, SDSU, Miami OH and SEMo St? Come on. You want to be considered a power, you have to play other powers. There are a ton of teams that could blow through that schedule and also find themselves undefeated at this time.

[WVRed]

Really? You don't know much about College football if you don't realize UC has a great defense. They did last year also.

Mike Mickens and Byrd are two of the best players at their positions in the nation. They are loaded.

The SEC hype is just hilarious and it never stops.

Kinda easy to have a "great" defense when you play teams like Marshall and Miami Ohio. If UC is still alive after November 3rd when they play South Florida, then come back to me.

I did look at last years schedule, but for the most part, five of the teams were ranked, and they did dismantle Rutgers last year 30-11. The rest outside of Louisville were barely even contests.

I did a search on Mike Mickens and Terrill Byrd for NFL draft projections and nothing came up. Haruki Nakamura did though.

And the SEC hype is very real. The Big East may be the most overrated conference right now outside of the Big Ten.

[OnBaseMachine]

I never once said those other bowl games were the true proof of the better conference. I'm just amazed at how good the SEC and CBS do at promoting their conference. Hell, they have their own announcers sound like total homers on the air. I would be embarrassed if I was a fan of one of their schools. Gary Danielson was just hilarious and stupid last year.

I agree with this. CBS has become enarly unbearable due to the SEC bias. It's pretty bad when commentators are making fun of and rooting against other conferences on live TV. It's hard for me to sit down and watch that crap.

[OnBaseMachine]

I voted the Sun Belt.

Because you can't get enough North Texas & Arkansas State, obviously.

That - and I couldn't choose between the Pac-10 & SEC.

One of the talking heads (Not on CBS) tonight talked about LSU struggling to go undefeated because "The SEC is so tough top to bottom" - then mentioned two minutes later that USC finally was "exposed by a weaker Pac10 squad"

So USC loses to another Pac-10 Squad - it's because they were exposed, yet if LSU can't make it thru the SEC it will be because of the depth of the SEC? Um...sure thing - try and wrap your brain around that logic.

Great post. And after Florida almost lost to a Stanford-level team in Ole Miss, SEC announcers said that it was a hard fought battle in the SEC. But like you said, when USC loses it's against a weak Pac-10 opponent. The SEC bias on CBS is ridiculous.

[LoganBuck]

To be overrated doesn't someone have to rate them highly? People keep saying that the BigTen is overrated, but I have yet to see someone actually say they are a great conference. Ohio State is in one of those "sometimes the year picks you" type of seasons. I think Ohio State could match up with LSU pretty well, and with a healthy Chris Wells, give them fits. I don't like them in any game where they are going to have to score 25+, except against a suspect defense like Cal's.

USC mails in too many games. They lack focus, everyone talks about the loose laid back atmosphere that Pete Carroll creates for his players. From where I stand that comes off as sloppy and over confident, against a team like Stanford. They will probably blow Cal away.

[MaineRed]

Great post. And after Florida almost lost to a Stanford-level team in Ole Miss, SEC announcers said that it was a hard fought battle in the SEC. But like you said, when USC loses it's against a weak Pac-10 opponent. The SEC bias on CBS is ridiculous.

The guys doing the game on CBS last night weren't watching the USC game so it is kind of hard for them to call it a hard fought battle. Nobody can deny that Stanford is a weak team in the Pac 10. I don't know how else you could describe USC losing to Stanford from afar. I heard people not on CBS claiming it was bigger than App State beating Michigan. Talk about hype.

I don't see the bias everyone is talking about. Kirk Herbstreet was having a heck of a time laughing it up over USC losing while covering the OSU game. It excites people when teams they aren't covering lose because it opens the door for teams they do cover. I don't call it bias, I call it human nature. KH was excited for Ohio State. Wonder why. Must be that ABC Big Ten bias.

And even if there is bias, that does nothing to prove the SEC isn't the best conference in the country.

Someone show me a tenth best team from another conference as good as Arkansas.

[jmcclain19]

Someone show me a tenth best team from another conference as good as Arkansas.

The same Arkansas team that struggled last night against D-IAA Chattanooga?

http://www.nwanews.com/adg/Sports/203651/

[Cedric]

Kinda easy to have a "great" defense when you play teams like Marshall and Miami Ohio. If UC is still alive after November 3rd when they play South Florida, then come back to me.

I did look at last years schedule, but for the most part, five of the teams were ranked, and they did dismantle Rutgers last year 30-11. The rest outside of Louisville were barely even contests.

I did a search on Mike Mickens and Terrill Byrd for NFL draft projections and nothing came up. Haruki Nakamura did though.

And the SEC hype is very real. The Big East may be the most overrated conference right now outside of the Big Ten.

Byrd and Mickens are going to be first team Big East. Good enough for you? NFL projections? What the hell does that have to do with college production?

If you don't think UC has a GREAT defense I can't help you. You are just wrong and anyone would agree.

[MaineRed]

Byrd and Mickens are going to be first team Big East. Good enough for you? NFL projections? What the hell does that have to do with college production?

If you don't think UC has a GREAT defense I can't help you. You are just wrong and anyone would agree.

Not so fast my friend.

Ohio State has a great defense. The most points they have given up is 14 and they just went into Purdue and allowed only 7.

Meanwhile Cincinnati gave up 23 to both San Diego State and Rutgers.

Ohio State has a GREAT defense. I hope you aren't claiming Cincy is in their class.

[paintmered]

Not so fast my friend.

Ohio State has a great defense. The most points they have given up is 14 and they just went into Purdue and allowed only 7.

Meanwhile Cincinnati gave up 23 to both San Diego State and Rutgers.

Ohio State has a GREAT defense. I hope you aren't claiming Cincy is in their class.

7 of Rutgers points came from an interception returned for a touchdown and 3 came from another turnover in field goal range. So UC's defense only gave up 13 points last night. And they held Ray Rice to under 3 yards per carry after stuffing him for a season low last year. As for San Diego State, 13 points were off UC's second and third team defenses.

Are they a great defense? I don't know. But it's arguable that UC has the best defense in the Big East.

[Sea Ray]

This thread is about entire conferences, not just certain teams. The Big Ten defenders here are hyping OSU and that's fine, but what about the rest of the conference? The conference has losses to Duke and App St and we all know what Oregon did to Mich yet Michigan will probably contend for the Big Ten title this year. What does that say about the rest of the conference?

Northwestern took 3 OTs to beat Miami (OH) after losing to Duke, then they beat MSU yesterday and it's looking like Minnesota is the bottomfeeder of the league this year.

This is the wrong year to complain about SEC hype. What have they done to make the hype unwarranted? The pummeling FL gave OSU should have quieted such talk for awhile but apparently not.

I am an alumnus of both OSU and a major SEC school and I will say this, the SEC takes its football much more seriously than the Big Ten. I also have in laws that take me to a lot of Mich games so I see how things work up there as well.

That said, as of today I voted for the PAC 10 but that may change as the season progresses.. I would put the Big Ten 4th behind the SEC and Big East as well.

[paintmered]

Best conference in college football this year? It's the SEC. By how much absolutely is debatable.

As for the rest of the BCS conferences, there are arguments that can be made for all of them for spot #2. Okay, maybe not the ACC.

[CrackerJack]

The question is: who has Rutgers beaten this year to make them "somebody?"

I don't think anyone's saying anything other than it was a quality victory for UC, against a ranked opponent on the road.

Good for them. Their schedule doesn't get easier.

[jmcclain19]

I would group College football into tiers myself

Tier 1
SEC, Pac-10
Tier 2
Big East, Big 12, Big Ten
Tier 3
ACC, WAC, Mtn West, Conf USA, MAC
Tier 4
Sun Belt, Division I-AA

[Javy Pornstache]

lol @ "The SEC hype is just hilarious and it never stops." Ridiculous.

[paintmered]

FWIW, here's Jeff Sagarin's conference rankings:


CONFERENCE CENTRAL MEAN SIMPLE AVERAGE TEAMS

1 PAC-10 (A) = 80.47 80.11 ( 1) 10
2 SOUTHEASTERN (A) = 79.25 79.48 ( 2) 12
3 BIG EAST (A) = 78.59 77.84 ( 3) 8
4 BIG 12 (A) = 77.93 77.22 ( 4) 12
5 BIG TEN (A) = 76.30 76.51 ( 5) 11
6 ATLANTIC COAST (A) = 76.20 75.83 ( 6) 12
7 MOUNTAIN WEST (A) = 70.44 70.27 ( 7) 9
8 I-A INDEPENDENTS (A) = 65.96 65.90 ( 8) 4
9 WESTERN ATHLETIC (A) = 64.94 65.56 ( 9) 9
10 CONFERENCE USA (A) = 62.60 62.64 ( 10) 12
11 MID-AMERICAN (A) = 62.32 62.32 ( 11) 13
12 COLONIAL (AA)= 58.26 57.80 ( 13) 12
13 GATEWAY (AA)= 57.89 56.66 ( 15) 7
14 GREAT WEST (AA)= 57.72 58.10 ( 12) 5
15 SUN BELT (A) = 57.43 57.15 ( 14) 8
16 SOUTHERN (AA)= 54.63 55.01 ( 16) 8
17 BIG SKY (AA)= 52.02 51.67 ( 17) 9
18 SOUTHLAND (AA)= 48.30 49.26 ( 18) 8
19 IVY LEAGUE (AA)= 45.77 46.51 ( 19) 8
20 PATRIOT LEAGUE (AA)= 45.28 44.22 ( 20) 7
21 BIG SOUTH (AA)= 41.29 41.07 ( 21) 5
22 MID-EASTERN (AA)= 39.77 39.19 ( 23) 10
23 OHIO VALLEY (AA)= 38.69 39.45 ( 22) 10
24 SOUTHWESTERN (AA)= 37.87 38.05 ( 24) 10
25 NORTHEAST (AA)= 31.05 30.95 ( 26) 7
26 PIONEER (AA)= 30.66 31.28 ( 25) 8
27 I-AA INDEPENDENTS (AA)= 24.27 25.10 ( 27) 4
28 METRO ATLANTIC (AA)= 22.95 21.83 ( 28) 4
29 ***UNRATED*** (**)= -90.00 -90.00 ( 29) 1

[Redsfaithful]

But HOW is this year's OSU team possibly better then last years?

I think their defense is better, and their offense didn't lose as much as people think. Players have stepped up, i.e. losing Pittman isn't a big deal when you have Chris Wells stepping in. Brian Robiskie has stepped up as receiver, and now Ray Small is healthy and playing like a Ted Ginn Jr. replacement. But mostly it comes back to the defense.

We'll see come bowl season though, I'm not sure we're going to learn much more about Ohio State in the regular season, although I could be wrong. The game at Penn State could be tough, and Michigan is obviously never an automatic win. And if they get Wisconsin's best shot they will be tough.

[MaineRed]

I don't think anyone's saying anything other than it was a quality victory for UC, against a ranked opponent on the road.

Good for them. Their schedule doesn't get easier.

Depends on how you look at it. Rutgers isn't ranked anymore.

Look at the Michigan-Oregon game. Does Oregon have a win over the number five team in the country (where UM was ranked at the time) or did they beat an average, unranked Michigan team?

To me Cincy has no wins over anyone in the top 25 and neither does Oregon. Oregon doesn't get bonus points because Michigan was gettting votes they shouldn't have been getting at the time of the game. Michigan and Rutgers are what they are, unranked teams.

[Sea Ray]

Depends on how you look at it. Rutgers isn't ranked anymore.

Look at the Michigan-Oregon game. Does Oregon have a win over the number five team in the country (where UM was ranked at the time) or did they beat an average, unranked Michigan team?

To me Cincy has no wins over anyone in the top 25 and neither does Oregon. Oregon doesn't get bonus points because Michigan was gettting votes they shouldn't have been getting at the time of the game. Michigan and Rutgers are what they are, unranked teams.


Michigan was unranked at the time Oregon played them. The loss to a div IAA school took care of that, but they may very well be ranked soon. They're #29 in the latest AP poll and a few more wins vs Big Ten patsies should get them ranked sooner rather than later. So yes, I believe Oregon did beat a ranked team when it's all said and done and it was a road win to boot. It's possible that Oregon beat the Big Ten champion...

[MaineRed]

My post really had nothing to do with slighting Oregon. But you helped my point.

Oregon doesn't want to hear later in the year if Michigan does win the Big 10 that they were an unranked mess when beaten by the Ducks. The Ducks are going to want to say they have a win over #13 Michigan or whatever they might be by that time.

It works both ways. If Rutgers was to go 11-1 and finish 4th in the country, the Bearcats fans would be saying they had a win over #4 Rutgers, even if Rutgers was 21st when the game was played.

You may be right, Oregon migth have a win over a ranked team when all is said and done. But right now they don't. Neither do the Bearcats.

[Sea Ray]

It works both ways. If Rutgers was to go 11-1 and finish 4th in the country, the Bearcats fans would be saying they had a win over #4 Rutgers, even if Rutgers was 21st when the game was played.

You may be right, Oregon migth have a win over a ranked team when all is said and done. But right now they don't. Neither do the Bearcats.

You're sure right. It does work both ways and the rankings are constantly in a state of flux. As for the Bearcats so far so good. They've beaten most of their opponents in impressive fashion and I think the teams they've beaten compare with wins the teams around them in the AP poll have gained as well. These would be Arizona St, Hawaii and Kentucky. For the time being, UC is worthy of their high ranking but that doesn't mean when it's all said and done that they'll be a #15 team.

[Chip R]

http://nunesmagician.blogspot.com/2007/10/octonion-strikes-back.html

[bucksfan2]

The Big East is not a power conference. The problem that i have with the Big East is that except for S. Florida's win over Auburn they have no marquis wins. They have beaten each other but have not gone outside of the conference and beaten any to opponents.

I think the SEC may be the toughest top to bottom but outside of LSU and maybe Florida this year there are no legit top teams in the country. The likes of UT, Auburn, Alabama, USC, Georiga, and Arkansas all can beat other teams but I dont see the consistance game in game out that it takes to be a top notch team. UK had a nice run but I think their season will go down hill once they start playing the big boys. The win over UL doesn't look as strong as it once did.

I admit the Big 10 is weaker this year. However a traditional bottom feeder is starting to improve and I wouldn't want to play Illinois in a must win game. They are becoming more talented because of Zook's recruiting.

[Caveat Emperor]

The Big East is not a power conference.

The BCS disagrees with you.

[Sea Ray]

I think the SEC may be the toughest top to bottom but outside of LSU and maybe Florida this year there are no legit top teams in the country.


Sure but what conference can boast about more than 2 legit top teams in the country? 2 is pretty many.

[MaineRed]

South Carolina is ranked 7th. They are just as "legit" as USC or Oregon at this point. And higher ranked than both.

Going back to the Sagarin rankings, I'd be interested to know, for arguments sake what those conferences standings would look like if Tenn had beaten Cal.

I just wonder if that one win by the Pac 10s best team (thus far) over a middle of the pack SEC team skews the conference rankings to the point that they make the PAC 10 number one. Not saying it does, but I wonder.

It really seems like there have been very few good non conference games this year. Games that looked good on paper 3 years ago when scheduled have been stinkers. Oklahoma-Miami, Cal-Tenn and LSU-Virginia Tech come to mind.

What are some big non conference wins by top teams? Are there any?

[bucksfan2]

The BCS disagrees with you.

Thats fine. I just want the Big East to beat someone, anyone. Until a WVU or UL beat a good program outside of their league I will not consider them a top conference. The S. Florida win over Auburn is a good win. Other than that the last good win you could argue was WVU over Georiga in the BCS bowl game. I may be missing a win but I just don't see these Big East teams beating or even playing top teams from other conferences. IMO the biggest wins for big east teams come against big east competition. After Auburn the best non conference team a big east team plays is either Oregon St or Maryland. IMO if you want to be considered as a top conferene than you better teams like WVU and Rutgers cant go the K State route and play patsy non conference schedules.

[LoganBuck]

The BCS disagrees with you.

The BCS rankings have not been released yet this year.

[MaineRed]

The Big East is part of the BCS, regardless of what the BSC standings say.

Hence the comment that the BCS considers them a power conference.

[Sea Ray]

After Auburn the best non conference team a big east team plays is either Oregon St or Maryland.

How 'bout Kentucky?

[bucksfan2]

How 'bout Kentucky?

Yea I forgot about UK. I don't really know how UK is. They have looked very good in games and have looked average in other games. The UK win over UL looked good at first but now with UL so bad it just isn't that quality of a win.

[IslandRed]

It really seems like there have been very few good non conference games this year. Games that looked good on paper 3 years ago when scheduled have been stinkers. Oklahoma-Miami, Cal-Tenn and LSU-Virginia Tech come to mind.

What are some big non conference wins by top teams? Are there any?

I think you've hit it on the head -- there are so few out-of-conference matchups between teams from the top half-dozen conferences that each result counts more than it probably ought, when it comes to comparing conferences. Yet there's nothing else to go on. Results within the Big East or SEC tell us how balanced those leagues are, or aren't, but nothing about how they compare to other leagues.


The problem that i have with the Big East is that except for S. Florida's win over Auburn they have no marquis wins. They have beaten each other but have not gone outside of the conference and beaten any to opponents.

See above. Who does have marquee out-of-conference wins? Take the SEC. There's LSU winning big at home against Virginia Tech. Very nice. Georgia beat a so-so Oklahoma State at home. Kentucky beat Louisville. Then... (crickets)

South Florida winning at Auburn is just one game, but it's one more out-of-conference big road win than the entire SEC has. That will likely change, since there are some rivalry games at the end of the year.

The only team I know for certain that's played more than one out-of-conference BCS-league team so far is Florida State. There might be more, I don't remember all the matchups.

[Sea Ray]

From what I've seen of UK they have a horrible defense. If they end up losing to SC, Florida, Tenn and Ga then you have to question if they've made any progress at all. If they beat one of the four then their progress was marginal.

[Blimpie]

From what I've seen of UK they have a horrible defense. If they end up losing to SC, Florida, Tenn and Ga then you have to question if they've made any progress at all. If they beat one of the four then their progress was marginal.In all truth, Kentucky's run defense is far more suspect than their pass defense.

Further their special teams coverage and kicking games are far inferior to most other SEC teams.

[Sea Ray]

See above. Who does have marquee out-of-conference wins? Take the SEC. There's LSU winning big at home against Virginia Tech. Very nice. Georgia beat a so-so Oklahoma State at home. Kentucky beat Louisville. Then... (crickets)


When it's all said and done I think the biggest non conference win will be Oregon over Mich. I think Mich will finish either 1 or 2 in the Big Ten this year. If you beat a BCS conference champion or runnerup on the road that's big.

Another big win could prove to be Cal over Tenn. UT is now in the driver's seat to take the SEC East title and play in the SEC championship game. Their main competition will be South Carolina but that game will be in Knoxville in front of 105 K fans. SC will be led by a freshman QB while UT has a four yr starter in SR Eric Ainge. I believe Ainge will be a 1st rd pick next Spring.

[IslandRed]

After I reviewed a little further, Miami has also played two BCS-level teams outside the league so far. And I wasn't thinking about Notre Dame (funny how starting 0-5 makes people forget), but if we're counting them as another BCS-league-level team, then a few others like Michigan, Michigan State, UCLA etc. have played two significant non-conference opponents so far.

[Sea Ray]

This year Notre Dame is in no way a BCS level team. With the recruits they get I am amazed that they can be that bad.

[Blimpie]

This year Notre Dame is in no way a BCS level team. With the recruits they get I am amazed that they can be that bad.Yep. It is pretty bad when they beat an unranked UCLA and it is characterized as an "upset" by most pundits over the weekend...

[Sea Ray]

Yep. It is pretty bad when they beat an unranked UCLA and it is characterized as an "upset" by most pundits over the weekend...

Pretty bad weekend for college football in the city of Angels. I wonder if Bakersfield got beat?:)

[paintmered]

I may be missing a win but I just don't see these Big East teams beating or even playing top teams from other conferences.

UC has Ohio State, Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, Miami (Fla) and Oregon State on the schedule the next few years. There are also rumors they will sign a 1 and 1 deal with Michigan.

[WMR]

Are you talking punting, Blimpie? I've thought Sieber has done pretty well so far...

[bucksfan2]

See above. Who does have marquee out-of-conference wins? Take the SEC. There's LSU winning big at home against Virginia Tech. Very nice. Georgia beat a so-so Oklahoma State at home. Kentucky beat Louisville. Then... (crickets)

South Florida winning at Auburn is just one game, but it's one more out-of-conference big road win than the entire SEC has. That will likely change, since there are some rivalry games at the end of the year.

The only team I know for certain that's played more than one out-of-conference BCS-league team so far is Florida State. There might be more, I don't remember all the matchups.

I am not trying to bash the scheduling because I know how tricky that is. When you have to schedule years in advance once glorious matchups end up being duds. My biggest complaint I guess is the big east is that their rise to prominance and having multiple teams ranked has nothing to do with them beating other teams rather it has more to do with them beating teams within their own division. Over the past 5 years the biggest win the conference had was WVU over Georiga in the BCS game. To note the only other quality win the conference has had was S. Florida over Auburn. Maybe my beef is more with the ranking system than it actually is with the teams. Until the Big East teams get their big wins out of conference I will still see them as an inferior BCS conference.

[WMR]

Razor, please provide your argument for the ACC being the most powerful conference in college football. :laugh:

[paintmered]

I am not trying to bash the scheduling because I know how tricky that is. When you have to schedule years in advance once glorious matchups end up being duds. My biggest complaint I guess is the big east is that their rise to prominance and having multiple teams ranked has nothing to do with them beating other teams rather it has more to do with them beating teams within their own division. Over the past 5 years the biggest win the conference had was WVU over Georiga in the BCS game. To note the only other quality win the conference has had was S. Florida over Auburn. Maybe my beef is more with the ranking system than it actually is with the teams. Until the Big East teams get their big wins out of conference I will still see them as an inferior BCS conference.


Conference Schools Record Percentage
Big East (5) Cin,Lou,Rut,USF,WV 5-0 1.000
MWC (4) BYU,NM,TCU,Utah 3-1 .750
WAC (4) BSU,Haw,Nev,SJS 3-1 .750
SEC (9) Ark,Ala,Aub,Fla,Ga,Ky,LSU,Ten,SC 6-3 .666
ACC (8) BC,Clem,FSU,GT,Mary,Mia,VT,WF 4-4 .500
Pac-10 (6) ASU,Cal,Ore,OSU,UCLA,USC 3-3 .500
Sun Belt (2) M.Tenn,Troy 1-1 .500
Big 12 (8) KSt,Mis,Neb,OU,OSU,Tex,TexA&M,TT 3-5 .375
Big Ten (7) Iowa,Mich,Minn,OSU,PSU,Pur,Wis 2-5 .286
MAC (4) CMich,NIU,Ohio,WMich 1-3 .250
C-USA (5) EC,Hou,Rice,SMiss,Tul 1-4 .200
Independents (2) Navy,ND 0-2 .000


Do bowl games count?

[MaineRed]

Those five wins were over: East Carolina, Western Michigan, Kansas State, Wake Forrest and Georgia Tech. Yes the Big East did what was asked of them in those games but they need to beat some better teams if they want people to really take notice. Are we really suppose to be impressed by UC beating Western Michigan?

Two wins over decent ACC programs, one of whom was the conference champ and a Big 12 also ran.

Meanwhile the SEC was playing: Ohio State, Notre Dame, Penn State, Wisconsin, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Oklahoma State, Nebraska and Houston.

That is big boy college football.

[paintmered]

Those five wins were over: East Carolina, Western Michigan, Kansas State, Wake Forrest and Georgia Tech. Yes the Big East did what was asked of them in those games but they need to beat some better teams if they want people to really take notice. Are we really suppose to be impressed by UC beating Western Michigan?

Two wins over decent ACC programs, one of whom was the conference champ and a Big 12 also ran.

Meanwhile the SEC was playing: Ohio State, Notre Dame, Penn State, Wisconsin, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Oklahoma State, Nebraska and Houston.

That is big boy college football.

I see you forgot West Virginia's win over Georgia in the 2006 Orange Bowl. Georgia was only the SEC Champs that year. But I guess that's not "big boy" either.

[MaineRed]

I didn't forget anything. You listed results from last year and I listed the teams that were beaten to post that result.

The WV-Georgia game was two years ago. But I'm sure Big East fans remember it well. They don't have any other bowl games from that year to remember as it was the only one the league won that season.

[paintmered]

I didn't forget anything. You listed results from last year and I listed the teams that were beaten to post that result.

Then you should indict the ACC, not the Big East.

[MaineRed]

Nobody in this thread is humping the ACC and using their stellar bowl record to back it up. But you are doing that with the Big East. I thought it was interesting that they were 5-0. Then I saw who they played.

The ACC hasn't been any part of this discussion. The Big East has been.

[paintmered]

Nobody in this thread is humping the ACC and using their stellar bowl record to back it up. But you are doing that with the Big East. I thought it was interesting that they were 5-0. Then I saw who they played.

The ACC hasn't been any part of this discussion. The Big East has been.

Negative ghostrider. Check who I said was the best conference in college football earlier in this thread. It's not the same conference as the words you are putting in my mouth.

Bucksfan2 posted that the Big East doesn't have the marquee out of conference wins, or even contests. I simply dispelled that myth. They are 2-0 in BCS games since the reorg. If you want to take those facts as me "humping the Big East", then I'm done with this thread.

[MaineRed]

You posted the bowl records from last year. I posted the teams beaten by Big East schools in bowl games last year.

You then brought up West Virginia from the year before that and then told me to go pick on the ACC. Neither of which made any sense. The issue being discussed was the Big East and their performance, last year.

[WVRed]

Byrd and Mickens are going to be first team Big East. Good enough for you? NFL projections? What the hell does that have to do with college production?

If you don't think UC has a GREAT defense I can't help you. You are just wrong and anyone in Cincinnati would agree.

I fixed it for you.;)

[Blimpie]

Are you talking punting, Blimpie? I've thought Sieber has done pretty well so far...Actually Tim Masthay has been the punter and he is a stud as of late. His percentage of boots inside the 20 is really high compared to some other punters. I love it when we need a big punt because I know Masthay can deliver in the clutch.

My problem is mostly with the kickoff coverage team. The kicks have consistently been fielded by the opposition between the 10-20 yard lines. Once they are fielded, the UK coverage team seemingly runs right towards the opposition's blocking strengths and schemes. Even with favorable wind conditions at times, very few of this year's kickoffs have entered the end zone--let alone go sailing out of the back for a touchback. The net results have been FAR too many opponents starting their drives from the 30-35 yard line area.

On the receiving end, I cannot help but scratch my head in wonder. A healthy Burton makes for exciting kickoff returns at times, but the cover teams flow towards him, so the better return option usually ends up being Dixon (who I love, by the way). I cannot explain why, but the return team is NOTHING like what it was just a year ago. A few fumbles by Little (both on punt returns IIRC) has left Brooks with waning confidence in Raphael. In fact, I believe he pulled Little from punt returns in the middle of the Louisville game. At the time--I was happy Brooks did it, but I did wonder aloud what impact this might have on Little's psyche over the long haul. Apparently, it DID have an impact, because he looks exceeding tentative every time the ball is in the air. When he has a five yard cushion, he calls fair catch. When he is surrounded by tacklers, you are screaming for a fair catch, yet he tries to make the "big play" and it has ended up costing him.

The place kicking duties have settled down somewhat during the last few weeks; however, given the way that Seiber began the season, he only had one direction to go.

I cannot believe I just rambled on for five minutes about UK's special teams. Dear God, somebody get me some help.

[15fan]

As a more than casual observer of the ACC, I think a big part of the conference's problem is that there aren't very many good & experienced quarterbacks in the league this year. Weren't very many last year, either. Matt Ryan is one of the top pro prospects in the college game. After that, it drops off.

Riley Skinner will never be a pro prospect, but he was masterful last year for Wake. This year he hasn't fared quite as well, due in part to some injuries. FSU can't decide on a QB. Kyle Wright will not be going down as one of the better QBs in Miami history. Virginia Tech pulled a qb switcheroo earlier in the year to go with youth. Clemson doesn't have a standout QB. Neither does Georgia Tech. Or Maryland. Or North Carolina. Or anyone else.

The next 2 years, I think you'll see improved play in the ACC as all of the young QBs (Wake, NC, NC State, Virginia, VT to name but a few) grow into their roles.

[Danny Serafini]

I can't help but chuckle that the ACC destroyed the beauty of their basketball season in order to steal a few football teams, and ACC football still stinks. Yes, I know BC is hot right now, but Miami fell apart, VT is its normal good but not great self, and most of the rest of the conference has tanked. Couldn't happen to a better batch of schools if you ask me!

[Sea Ray]

What did the ACC do with its football program that screwed up the basketball season?

[Danny Serafini]

What did the ACC do with its football program that screwed up the basketball season?

They had a full round-robin schedule, which most major conferences do not. They were able to determine a true regular season champion, something most conferences can't because of unequal scheduling. It was something they played up all the time, how they were different because they had such a meaningful regular season. By adding three schools it meant they couldn't do that any longer (they couldn't schedule 22 conference games), so they became just like everyone else. They sold out something that made them different among the major conferences and sold it out for a football conference championship game that has no buzz about it whatsoever.

[Ltlabner]

Pac-10.

Colon Cowherd said so.

[WMR]

Pac-10.

Colon Cowherd said so.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Colon Cowherd that is good! I'm going to start calling him that.

Lt, your spelling produces some real moments of unintentional hilarity.

[Ltlabner]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Colon Cowherd that is good! I'm going to start calling him that.

Lt, your spelling produces some real moments of unintentional hilarity.

:D

That one might not have been an accident ;)

[Puffy]

How can I take this poll seriously when 9 people have picked the Big Ten as the current most powerful conference in college football?

Homerism is one thing, but geez.....

[MaineRed]

I have a friend who is real high on the Big Ten. He likes the style of play more than other conferences.

I am shocked that the SEC leads the Pac 10 by a score of 38-5 at this point. I'm not sure you'd see that big of a gap on many other boards unless they were affiliated with the SEC somehow.

I do agree with it however.

[bucksfan2]

I don't think the Pac 10 is that great of a conference. I think when they play out of conference at home they have a huge advantage. It is more difficult than people thing to cross 3 timezones and play within a 2 day span. That is also a reason I think they struggle on the road.

[Highlifeman21]

How can I take this poll seriously when 9 people have picked the Big Ten as the current most powerful conference in college football?

Homerism is one thing, but geez.....

At least it's a public poll, so we can see the true tOSU fans.

At the beginning of the season, the Big Ten seemed like a good conference, but Michigan and Wisconsin have left tOSU as the only "power" team. tOSU could still get tripped up along the way. Who knows.

I voted for the SEC. It just seems that there are too many good teams in that conference that if they played in other conferences would have a legitimate shot at a conference title. I'm not sold that LSU is the best team in the nation, but so far, it doesn't seem anyone's really separating themselves from all the other teams.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

How can I take this poll seriously when 9 people have picked the Big Ten as the current most powerful conference in college football?

Homerism is one thing, but geez.....

And you are not disturbed by 4 voting for the Big East, 3 for the MAC, 2 for the Sun Belt, and 2 for the WAC?

I guess the poll cannot be taken seriously because the only real answer to the question is the SEC. Anything else is "homerism".

Regardless, I'm a homer.

[IslandRed]

They had a full round-robin schedule, which most major conferences do not. They were able to determine a true regular season champion, something most conferences can't because of unequal scheduling. It was something they played up all the time, how they were different because they had such a meaningful regular season. By adding three schools it meant they couldn't do that any longer (they couldn't schedule 22 conference games), so they became just like everyone else. They sold out something that made them different among the major conferences and sold it out for a football conference championship game that has no buzz about it whatsoever.

All of which is true. They're crying all the way to the bank, though. Football is a bigger cash-producer for schools and they felt they needed to do the expansion/championship game in order to stay at the grownup table in terms of revenue. Seems to have worked in that respect. Some of the hoops-first diehards will never be happy about it, and that's their right. But there are some folks on Tobacco Road stuck in the 1970s that have opposed everything the ACC's done since before Georgia Tech was admitted.

[Puffy]

And you are not disturbed by 4 voting for the Big East, 3 for the MAC, 2 for the Sun Belt, and 2 for the WAC?

I guess the poll cannot be taken seriously because the only real answer to the question is the SEC. Anything else is "homerism".

Regardless, I'm a homer.

If the Big 10 had 4 votes, or 3, etc than I would not have said anything, but nice try.

But not only do they have the second most votes but they have twice as many as the Pac 10.

You wanna make an argument that the Big 10 is on par with the Pac 10 then fine. I don't agree this year, but I can see the argument. But twice as many people have picked the Big 10 as have picked the pac 10 - thats homerism/Ohio State rawks kinda stuff.

And for the record, as a Notre Dame fan it would be in their best interest if the Big Ten were indeed number 1 since ND plays 4 or 5 Big Ten teams every year. Tougher schedule and all that. But I would rather choose the one I honestly think is best rather than be blind.

[Roy Tucker]

But twice as many people have picked the Big 10 as have picked the pac 10 - thats homerism/Ohio State rawks kinda stuff.



I'm shocked, shocked to hear that homerism/Ohio State rawks goes on in here. Imagine that, on Ohio-based bulletin board too. Go figure.

For the record, I'm an OsURawK$TreSSelIsGoD kind of guy, and I'd pick the Big 10 third. Lots of dull thuds this year.

[Puffy]

I'm shocked, shocked to hear that homerism/Ohio State rawks goes on in here. Imagine that, on Ohio-based bulletin board too. Go figure.



Which was my original point - if we were on the west coast you can bet the Pac 10 would be way in front for second place. Homerism is not only here.

But its still hard to take this seriously - b/c anyone without a Big 10 alligence would most likely put the Big 10 3rd. Key words, most likely - I am not saying all would, so please spare me the flames I am probably going to get.

[OnBaseMachine]

I don't think the Pac 10 is that great of a conference. I think when they play out of conference at home they have a huge advantage. It is more difficult than people thing to cross 3 timezones and play within a 2 day span. That is also a reason I think they struggle on the road.

How come Oregon destroyed Michigan? USC destroyed Arkansas and Auburn on the road the last few years. They killed Nebraska on the road. ASU crushed Iowa a couple years ago.

Oh, and Puffy - I agree with what you said about taking this seriously.

[Cedric]

How come Oregon destroyed Michigan? USC destroyed Arkansas and Auburn on the road the last few years. They killed Nebraska on the road. ASU crushed Iowa a couple years ago.

Oh, and Puffy - I agree with what you said about taking this seriously.

Indiana beat Oregon a few years back. It's just an arguement that goes in circles. These conferences are just about equal, IMO.

Did anyone know that the Big Ten has a winning record over the SEC since 1998? Seems forgotten. Big Ten in BCS games also has the most participants and best winning percentage in those games.

Statistically the Pac 10 and the Big Ten have been better recently than the SEC.



This articlle from the Sporting News is amazing and even SEC fans were agreeing with his points.

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/gymrome/93194


SEC vs. PAC10 vs. Big10 NCAA FOOTBALL
Filed under: Big10 LetTheGlovesDropBringItOnCollegeFootball Pac10 SEC
Jul 09, 2007 06:16 PM | 922 views [report abuse]


The Question was from top to bottom what Conference is the best between the Big10, PAC10, and SEC.


Let's have some data shall we?

Let's look at the players and some info. Conference records go back 10 years for arguments sake. This is a realistic time period.

Big 10

Indiana vs Pac 10 1-1, vs. SEC 2-7 against Big10 .237
Illinois vs Pac10 2-6, vs. SEC 0-1 against Big10 .263
Iowa vs.Pac10 1-4, vs. SEC 2-1 against Big10 .500
Michigan vs. Pac10 2-5, vs. Sec 5-1 against Big10 .812
Mich. State vs. Pac10 1-3, vs.Sec 1-0 against Big10 .412
Minnesota vs.Pac10 1-2, vs. Sec 2-0,against Big10 .400
Northwestern vs.Pac10 0-3, vs SEC no games played against Big10 .362
Ohio State vs. Pac10 5-1, vs.Sec 0-3 against Big10 .738
Penn.St. vs. Pac10 1-1, vs. Sec 2-2, against Big10 .550
Purdue vs. Pac10 3-4, vs. Sec 0-2, against Big10 .600
Wisconsin vs. Pac10 6-1, vs.Sec 2-3 against Big10 .625

Overall Pac10 23-31 Sec 16-20

Pac10

Arizona vs Big10 1-7, vs. Sec 0-2 against Pac10 .358
AZ State vs. Big10 5-1, vs.Sec 0-1 against Pac10 .481
Cal vs. Big10 4-2, vs. Sec 0-1 against Pac10 .444
Oregon vs. Big10 4-4, vs. Sec 2-0, against Pac10 .630
Or. St. vs. Big10 no games, vs Sec 0-1, .469
Stanford vs. Big10 0-1, vs. Sec no games, against Pac10 .395
UCLA vs. Big10 5-3, vs.Sec 2-1 against Pac10 .580
USC vs. Big10 5-0, vs. Sec 4-0 against Pac10 .691
Wash. vs. Big10 4-3, vs. Sec no games, against Pac10 .494
Wash St. vs. Big10 3-2, vs. Sec 0-1 against Pac10 .457

Overall Big10 31-23 SEC 8-7

SEC

Alabama vs. Big10 0-2, vs. Pac10 0-2 against SEC .494
Arkansas vs. Big10 0-3, vs. Pac10 0-2 against SEC .488
Auburn vs. Big10 2-2, vs. Pac10 1-2 against SEC .627
Florida vs. Big10 3-3, vs Pac10 no games, against SEC .759
Georgia vs. Big10 4-0, vs. Pac10 no games, against SEC .699
Kentucky vs. Big10 7-3, against Pac10 no games against SEC .275
LSU vs. Big10 1-1, vs. Pac10 4-0, against SEC .627
Miss. vs. Big10 no games, vs. Pac10 no games In 10 years no Big 10 or Pac10 games? SEC .438
Miss. St. vs. Big10 no games, vs. Pac10 0-2, against SEC .333
South Car. vs. Big10 2-0, against Pac10 no games, against SEC .375
Tenn vs. Big10 1-1, vs. Pac10 2-0, against SEC .726
Vanderbilt vs. Big10 0-1, vs. Pac10 no games, against SEC .125

Overall Big10 20-16, Pac10 7-8

What have we learned from this :

The Big 10 has the worst overall record but most games played. One team Northwestern has no record against the SEC. Six of 11 teams have a winning conference record. Best team Mich. .812 worst Indy .237
three teams have a sub .400 conference record Ill. .263, Ind. .237 and NWest. .362

The Pac10 has winning records against both Conferences. Two teams have no record against one of the two schools. Three of 10 teams have a conference record of .500 or better. Best USC .691, worst Ariz. .358
Two teams have a sub .400 record AZ. .358 and Stanford .395

The SEC is 1-1 against the other conferences. 5 of 12 teams have a record of .500 or better in conference.
Best Fla. .759 worst Vandy .125 Vandy wins one of every 8 conference games! The SEC like the Pac10 shows really good teams and poor teams while the Big10 shows overall strength with more than half the teams having winning conference records. The SEC has 8 teams that have no record against the other conferences. Two of these teams are Fla and Ga. quality teams. The rest Vandy,Ky.,Miss,Miss. St. and South C. all have losing conference records. This means their crap teams are not playing games against the better conferences thus inflating their record out of conference. 4 of 12 teams or 33% have a sub .400 record Ky. .275, Miss. St. .333, Soth Car. .375 and Vandy. .125

The Rose Bowl is the best game for the Big10 and Pac10 schools unless the teams are in the National Championship game or the Rose Bowl is the BCS Championship.

Going back 20 years every Big10 team except Indy 1968, Illinois 1984, and Minnesota 1962 has played in the conferences biggest game that comes to .727

Going back 20 years the Pac10 has had 7 of 10 teams in the biggest game. .700 Arizona has never made the Rose Bowl, Cal 1959 and Ore.St. 1965.

The Sugar Bowl is the biggest Non-BCS championship game for the SEC. Going back 20 years we find that 6 of 12 teams have played in the Sugar Bowl for a .500 record. This is far and away the worst of the three.
Arkansas and South Carolina have never played in the Sugar Bowl since joining the SEC in 1990. Vandy and Miss. St have never made it and Ky goes back to 1951 and Miss. 1970.

Now let's look at the BCS games.

Big 10 is 8-7 .533 15 appearances Ohio State has one BCS National Title.

Ohio State 5 games played 4-1, Mich. 4 games 1-3, Wisc. 2-0 and unable to play one year because of rules not allowing a third conf team in., Ill 0-1, Iowa 0-1, Penn St. 1-0 and Purdue 0-1. Teams in 7 of 11 .636

Pac10 is 7-4 .637 USC has 1 BCS championship. USC 5 games 4-1, Ore. 1-0, Ore St. 1-0, Wash. 1-0, Wash St. 0-1, UCLA 0-1, Stanford 0-1. Teams in 7 of 10 .700

SEC 9-4 .692 Fla., LSU, and Tenn. have 1 BCS Title the most of the conferences. Fla. 3-1, LSU 3-0, Ga. 1-1, Tenn. 1-1, Ala. 0-1, Aub. 1-0. 6 of 12 teams in .500


What does this show? The SEC has had the most dominant teams since the BCS game has been played however they have the least overall participation in the BCS games. The Big 10 with one less team has played in 2 more games with the second best % of teams in. The Pac10 has the most teams in % with the fewest games played.


My conclusions:

Overall the SEC has had the best upper tier teams in the last decade or so. However the overall strength of the league is the poorest due to crappy schools like Vandy with their .125 record.

The Pac10 has had the most success of the 3 conferences in terms of conference records and BCS appearances. USC has dominated the conference with everyone else having a good year from time to time.

The Big10 has had the most teams in the BCS games and played the most BCS games and has the best in conference record while playing the most games between the conferences.

While I initially ranked the three conferences Pac10, Big10 and SEC. I now have to change my rankings based on BCS games played, in conference records and appearances in the Major Conference Bowl and out of conference record.

Keep in mind this is a ranking of ALL teams in the Conferences not who has had the best teams. The SEC as I said has had the strongest teams overall in the last decade or so but, that is not the ranking I am giving out.

The Big10 wins overall strongest conference from top to bottom, The Pac10 comes in second and the SEC comes in third.

Yes, I expect to get thumbs down but I welcome all intelligent comments from all sides. The data I used tells me I am correct. Remember the question is best overall from top to bottom. The SEC has too many dead-weight teams. The facts speak for themselves.

Please comment away. If you are going to thumb me down SEC or Pac 10 fan have the decency to leave a comment. I will try to respond to any intelligent comments good or bad. I fear and duck nobody. I enjoy the debate and know several of my friends will attempt to rend me limb from limb. So let's bring it on. "

[Blimpie]

Pretty interesting article, thanks for posting that. A few thoughts that I have:

Vandy only fits in the SEC because of their geographical proximity. Culturally, their presence is a bad fit. They are a smaller, private school which has made a concerted effort to emphasize academics over all else (did they even re-hire an AD yet?). That should be the case at all SEC schools, but it is clearly not the case. In football, it is unfortunate that Vandy's program impacts the overall power rankings for the SEC. In basketball, they are an incredibly important component of the SEC and the league should be grateful to have their presence.

One of the reasons that the SEC may not have had as many appearances in the BCS games is that they were the first (and longest running) conference to play the extra game for the SEC Conference Championship. Historically, this game has involved two teams who were both players for tier-1 BCS bowl games. After that game, normally the loser suffers a precipitous drop (2-4 spots in the BCS rankings). I love the concept of this game; however, if this game did not exist, it is feasible to assume that more SEC teams would have been placed in BCS bowl games throughout the last several years.

[IslandRed]

Vandy only fits in the SEC because of their geographical proximity. Culturally, their presence is a bad fit. They are a smaller, private school which has made a concerted effort to emphasize academics over all else (did they even re-hire an AD yet?). That should be the case at all SEC schools, but it is clearly not the case.

I actually like what Vanderbilt did, although it took awhile for people to figure out that not having a so-called athletic department didn't mean they were going to de-emphasize athletics. They're trying to make their differences work for them instead of trying to beat the big public schools at their own game. It might work or it might not, but it's the best chance they have.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

If the Big 10 had 4 votes, or 3, etc than I would not have said anything, but nice try.

Nice try? What was I trying?


But not only do they have the second most votes but they have twice as many as the Pac 10.

You wanna make an argument that the Big 10 is on par with the Pac 10 then fine. I don't agree this year, but I can see the argument. But twice as many people have picked the Big 10 as have picked the pac 10 - thats homerism/Ohio State rawks kinda stuff.

And for the record, as a Notre Dame fan it would be in their best interest if the Big Ten were indeed number 1 since ND plays 4 or 5 Big Ten teams every year. Tougher schedule and all that. But I would rather choose the one I honestly think is best rather than be blind.


Big 10. Pac 10. You could make a case for both. Honestly, to me it's splitting hairs and a waste of time, but since you brought it up.

The PAC 10 has a 20-7 record against non-Pac 10 foes. The Big 10 is 29-7 vs everyone outside the Big 10. All BCS conferences have their share of garbage non-conference wins, but how have they done against other BCS conference schools?

The Pac 10 is 5-4 against non-Pac 10 BCS schools (including ND):

Their 5 wins are: Tennessee (Cal), Michigan (Oregon), Colorado (ASU), Nebraska (USC), and Syracuse (Washington).

Their 4 losses are: Notre Dame (UCLA), Cincinnati (Oregon St.), Ohio State (Washington), and Wisconsin (Washington St.). With losses to non-BCS schools - Utah (UCLA), BYU (Arizona), and New Mexico (Arizona).



The Big 10 is 8-4 against non-Big 10 BCS schools (including ND):

Their 8 wins are: Washington (Ohio State), Washington St. (Wisconsin), Pitt (Michigan St.), Syracuse (Illinois) and Notre Dame x 4 (Michigan, Michigan St., Penn State, and Purdue).

Their 4 losses are: Missouri (Illinois), Oregon (Michigan), Duke (Northwestern), and Iowa State (Iowa). With losses to non-BCS schools - App. State (Michigan) and Bowling Green (Minnesota).

Straight up, the Big 10 is 2-1 over the Pac 10.



Breaking it down much more is, as I said, splitting hairs. Especially with the limit sample size. Yes, the Pac 10 probably has better quality of wins vs. BCS non-conference foes. Oregon went into the Big House and stomped Michigan. Cal over Tennessee is the other signature win. However, if we can all agree that Michigan is down this year, the Oregon win loses a little luster. OSU may perhaps own the Big 10's best non-conference win by beating a Pac 10 team, Washington, in Washington and they went to the wire with Pac 10 superpower, USC.

As for your Notre Dame. Maybe it hasn't occured to anyone, but quite possibly a reason they have struggled to a 1-5 start, is the fact that they have played the Big 10 four times (0-4). I mean, take away those games and Notre Dame is 1-1 with a win on the road against the Pac 10's UCLA.

As for the number of "homers" picking the Big 10 over the Pac 10. If this were a Mariner board and we were in the non-baseball chatter section, I'd be surprised if twice the number of people voted the Big 10 over the Pac 10, but I wouldn't lose sleep if it were the other way around. You could make a case for both conferences and could even just say "What the heck", and call it a draw. Neither leaps out past the other. The fact is, that the SEC is the best conference - hands down, and any other conference voted in a poll such as this wreaks of homerism and "My team rawks" anyway, which goes without saying. Lets just not take this as another opportunity to call out the evil Ohio State University and their stupid, uneducated fans, which is what you were implying with the "rawks" comment, right?

GO BucKEYeS!

They most certainly rawk.

[LoganBuck]

I mean, take away those games and Notre Dame is 1-1 with a win on the road against the Pac 10's UCLA.

If the Reds had Bray and Guardado they would be right in this.

[jmcclain19]

GO BucKEYeS!

They most certainly rawk.

They most certainly did against the Gators last year - didn't they?

Lets prepare for more of the OSU koolaid drinkers since they are now the default No.1 in College Football.

[pedro]

They most certainly did against the Gators last year - didn't they?

Lets prepare for more of the OSU koolaid drinkers since they are now the default No.1 in College Football.

I can't wait for November 17th so I can watch Michigan beat them.

[GAC]

But not only do they have the second most votes but they have twice as many as the Pac 10.

You wanna make an argument that the Big 10 is on par with the Pac 10 then fine. I don't agree this year, but I can see the argument. But twice as many people have picked the Big 10 as have picked the pac 10 - thats homerism/Ohio State rawks kinda stuff.

I agree - as far as your contention that the Big Ten is not on par with the Pac 10. IMHO, there ain't no way.

[GAC]

They most certainly did against the Gators last year - didn't they?

Lets prepare for more of the OSU koolaid drinkers since they are now the default No.1 in College Football.

I'm an OSU fan; but I am also a realist. And living over here in the "heart" of Buckeye country, what I am about to say is pretty much agreed on my most OSU fans. At least the ones I associate with...

Sure, after yesterday's results (upsets) they are going to want, and will celebrate, that their team could be ranked #1.

Show me a team's fan who wouldn't?

I don't consider that kool-aid drinking.

But every Buckeye fan I've talked with also believes that while OSU is a good team, they also believe the Big Ten is weak this year, OSU really hasn't been tested, and playing teams like Akron, Youngstown State, and Kent State, doesn't help their cause much. My God, they better blow these teams away!

I had no desire whatsoever to even watch/listen to that OSU-Kent State game yesterday. Wasn't going to waste my time when they were far better, and more entertaining, games on.

I've said this numerous times this year - that it could very well be deja vu for OSU.

They could very well get into the BCS championship game this year only to be exposed again like last year. They can't do anything about the weakness with the other Big Ten teams. And I have no problem with them playing a smaller intra-state school at the beginning of the year. Most college teams do such, and it does bring money and exposure to those programs. But it also seems to me that this has become a trend in college football anymore, and it's just not OSU doing it (scheduling these smaller schools). Now some of these smaller conferences, like the MAC and others, are putting out better products. And maybe the reason these bigger schools are scheduling more of them has more to do with those adminstrators trying to draw more money to those schools and make them even better/more competitive. I don't know.

But not three of them! For a supposed powerhouse like OSU, that is ridiculous IMO.

The only quality win that OSU has this year is vs Washington. And I really don't know if the Huskies are that good.

No - even as an avid Buckeye fan, I'm very wary of this team and how good/bad it may be.

[Caveat Emperor]

Lets prepare for more of the OSU koolaid drinkers since they are now the default No.1 in College Football.

I'd offer them all cupcakes to celebrate, but apparently the AD put them all on the schedule this year. ;)

There's something fundamentally wrong with taking over the #1 spot in the nation after walloping the mighty Kent State Golden Flashes.

[GAC]

As for your Notre Dame. Maybe it hasn't occured to anyone, but quite possibly a reason they have struggled to a 1-5 start, is the fact that they have played the Big 10 four times (0-4). I mean, take away those games and Notre Dame is 1-1 with a win on the road against the Pac 10's UCLA.

Take away those Big Ten losses and they would still have to play someone else in those 4 games, and I'd contend they'd probably still be 1-5. They are not a very good team this year. Now they just played one of their better games this year yesterday vs #4 Boston College, and lost 27-14.


As for the number of "homers" picking the Big 10 over the Pac 10. If this were a Mariner board and we were in the non-baseball chatter section, I'd be surprised if twice the number of people voted the Big 10 over the Pac 10, but I wouldn't lose sleep if it were the other way around. You could make a case for both conferences and could even just say "What the heck", and call it a draw. Neither leaps out past the other. The fact is, that the SEC is the best conference - hands down, and any other conference voted in a poll such as this wreaks of homerism and "My team rawks" anyway, which goes without saying. Lets just not take this as another opportunity to call out the evil Ohio State University and their stupid, uneducated fans, which is what you were implying with the "rawks" comment, right?

But this is a Red's forum. And one is wrong to state (or believe) that since 2600 members on here are fans of a baseball team from Ohio, that a majority are therefore also fans of various regional sports teams (Buckeye, Bengals, Bearcat, etc).

This is the worldwide web. ;)

[WMR]

They most certainly did against the Gators last year - didn't they?

Lets prepare for more of the OSU koolaid drinkers since they are now the default No.1 in College Football.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[BuckeyeRedleg]

They most certainly did against the Gators last year - didn't they?

Lets prepare for more of the OSU koolaid drinkers since they are now the default No.1 in College Football.

Yes, one loss in their last 25.

They suck prtty bad.

Stay classy.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

I'd offer them all cupcakes to celebrate, but apparently the AD put them all on the schedule this year. ;)

There's something fundamentally wrong with taking over the #1 spot in the nation after walloping the mighty Kent State Golden Flashes.

How about we not let anyone have number one? Really, does any team deserve it at this point?

Why does it matter, though? They still have to play the games.

And I'm sorry Ohio State won 48-3. They should have lost, like every other team has done this year against their cupcakes. How unfair.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

I can't wait for November 17th so I can watch Michigan beat them.

I have a feeling you will be disappointed.

You should be used to it by now.

[pedro]

I have a feeling you will be disappointed.

You should be used to it by now.

Things are never permanent. We had the Cooper years. You guys are having your fun now. That too will end some day. Honestly I'd like it if they were competitive year in and year out rather than one team dominating the other for long stretches.

Don't forget that Michigan leads the series all time 57-40-6.

[Caveat Emperor]

And I'm sorry Ohio State won 48-3. They should have lost, like every other team has done this year against their cupcakes. How unfair.

Drilling Kent State is cool.

Drilling Kent State and Akron in the same season -- not cool, but OK.

Drilling Kent State, Akron and Youngstown State all in the same season? Sorry, I'm not going to take an undefeated record seriously.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Drilling Kent State is cool.

Drilling Kent State and Akron in the same season -- not cool, but OK.

Drilling Kent State, Akron and Youngstown State all in the same season? Sorry, I'm not going to take an undefeated record seriously.

Tell Jeff Sagarin and all the computers.

#1? Maybe not, but they are still a legit top 5, so what's the big deal? Win out and they are in the title game.

And many of the top teams have played the same low quality of opponent once, AND LOST.

I agree, the schedule has been pretty damn weak so far, but the season has not played itself out.

The last two years they had a home and away with Texas. The next two they have USC. Then Miami after that. The current schedule was set up a long time ago. Washington was not set up as a patsy, but they are definitely down this year. Regardless, Washington still played everyone's world beater, USC, pretty close and they will do some damage to someone before it's all said and done.

Remove Kent State or Akron and replace one with with Syracuse. Would that really make a bit of difference?

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Don't forget that Michigan leads the series all time 57-40-6.

Yes, Michigan owned Ohio State back at the turn of the century to a a tune of 19-3-2 in the first 24 meetings. Since then (1928), the series is pretty much even at 38-37-4.

Since 1951, when Woody Hayes took over, OSU leads the series 28-26-2.

Woody went 16-11-1 against Michigan.
Bruce was 5-4.
Cooper went 2-10-1.
Tressel is 5-1.

A great rivalry. The greatest. And I respect Michigan. I even feel that they are a dangerous opponent this year. No offense by me saying you should be used to it either. I was just responding to your post in which you were already claiming victory on November 17th.

[pedro]

Yes, Michigan owned Ohio State back at the turn of the century to a a tune of 19-3-2 in the first 24 meetings. Since then (1928), the series is pretty much even at 38-37-4.

Since 1951, when Woody Hayes took over, OSU leads the series 28-26-2.

Woody went 16-11-1 against Michigan.
Bruce was 5-4.
Cooper went 2-10-1.
Tressel is 5-1.

A great rivalry. The greatest. And I respect Michigan. I even feel that they are a dangerous opponent this year. No offense by me saying you should be used to it either. I was just responding to your post in which you were already claiming victory on November 17th.

I was just having fun. As were you.

It is the greatest rivalry.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

I was just having fun. As were you.

It is the greatest rivalry.

I hope you win out and we can have another great game. At this time, I honestly feel it could go either way. Hopefully the ball bounces our way on the 17th.

With that said, Michigan could win out. OSU could win out. OSU could beat Michigan and then we'd still hear how OSU is not worthy. Blah blah blah.

The strange thing is, that when Michigan is winning, I never hear the same said about them (that they are a fraud). NEVER. They are still loved by the media. I think that's why many OSU fans appear to be touchy on the subject.

[Cedric]

They most certainly did against the Gators last year - didn't they?

Lets prepare for more of the OSU koolaid drinkers since they are now the default No.1 in College Football.

I hope you compare last years OSU team to this years. I know that the koolaid ESPN fans are going to and they are gonna be in for a treat.

If Ohio State gets to the title game this year I just hope they prove it. Though it's just one game. The OSU haters all over just seem to forget that.
I bet my life if USC finds it's way back to #1 or #2 and win the big game people won't be calling Stanford the best team in the nation. That's what is great about CFB. Fans are greedy and think we HAVE to prove who the best team is every year. It's impossible and a BCS title game and playoff both miss that objective. Sadly people today just can't appreciate what makes the sport so unique. They want a playoff to "prove" who the best team is :)

[Cedric]

I hope you win out and we can have another great game. At this time, I honestly feel it could go either way. Hopefully the ball bounces our way on the 17th.

With that said, Michigan could win out. OSU could win out. OSU could beat Michigan and then we'd still hear how OSU is not worthy. Blah blah blah.

The strange thing is, that when Michigan is winning, I never hear the same said about them (that they are a fraud). NEVER. They are still loved by the media. I think that's why many OSU fans appear to be touchy on the subject.

Ohio State doesn't have as many players from California or out of state. CFB is all about speed and many fans are utterly clueless about the speed that Ohio high school players have. Weird phenomenon. Troy Smith and his 12 step drop didn't help the utterly false perception. Nor did Jamario O'neal and Brandon Mitchell having to start because of multiple injuries.

Like I said before, this team is the most talented overall in the Tressel era. I can't wait to watch this season unfold.

[15fan]

They had a full round-robin schedule, which most major conferences do not. They were able to determine a true regular season champion, something most conferences can't because of unequal scheduling. It was something they played up all the time, how they were different because they had such a meaningful regular season. By adding three schools it meant they couldn't do that any longer (they couldn't schedule 22 conference games), so they became just like everyone else. They sold out something that made them different among the major conferences and sold it out for a football conference championship game that has no buzz about it whatsoever.

I'm right there with you. Until about 12 months ago, I was 100% against expansion. In fact, I wanted the league to kick out FSU and go back to 8 schools.

But then my Deacs won a conference football title last year.

Anything that facilitates that is a very very very good thing.

:thumbup: :beerme: :thumbup:

[joshnky]

Below is a list of the currently active NFL players for OSU, USC, LSU, and Florida. The stars are just my "objective" analysis. Ohio State appears to have the edge.

Ohio State
Will Allen Safety Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Tim Anderson Defensive Tackle Buffalo Bills
Rodney Bailey Defensive End Arizona Cardinals
Bobby Carpenter Linebacker Dallas Cowboys
Drew Carter Wide Receiver Carolina Panthers
Adrien Clarke Guard New York Jets
*Nate Clements Cornerback San Francisco 49ers
Doug Datish Offensive Lineman Atlanta Falcons
Na'il Diggs Linebacker Carolina Panthers
Michael Doss Safety Minnesota Vikings
Simon Fraser Defensive End Cleveland Browns
*Joey Galloway Wide Receiver Tampa Bay Buccaneers
*Chris Gamble Cornerback Carolina Panthers
*Ted Ginn Jr. Wide Receiver Miami Dolphins
*Terry Glenn Wide Receiver Dallas Cowboys
*Anthony Gonzalez Wide Receiver Indianapolis Colts
Roy Hall Wide Receiver Indianapolis Colts
Ben Hartsock Tight End Tennessee Titans
*AJ Hawk Linebacker Green Bay Packers
*Santonio HolmesWide Receiver Pittsburgh Steelers
Kevin Houser Center New Orleans Saints
Michael Jenkins Wide Receiver Atlanta Falcons
Nick Mangold Center New York Jets
Donnie Nickey Safety Tennessee Titans
Mike Nugent Kicker New York Jets
Shane Olivea Offensive Tackle San Diego Chargers
*Orlando Pace Offensive Tackle St. Louis Rams
Ryan Pickett Defensive Tackle Green Bay Packers
Quinn Pitcock Defensive Tackle Indianapolis Colts
Antonio Pittman Running Back St. Louis Rams
Jay Richardson Defensive End Oakland Raiders
Nate Salley Safety Carolina Panthers
Anthony Schlegel Linebacker Cincinnati Bengals
Darrion Scott Defensive End Minnesota Vikings
Rob Sims Guard Seattle Seahawks
Troy Smith Quarterback Baltimore Ravens
*Will Smith Defensive End New Orleans Saints
*Shawn Springs Cornerback Washington Redskins
Alex Stepanovich Center Cincinnati Bengals
*Mike Vrabel Linebacker New England Patriots
Tyson Walter Guard Green Bay Packers
*Donte Whitner Safety Buffalo Bills
Matt Wilhelm Linebacker San Diego Chargers
*Antoine Winfield Cornerback Minnesota Vikings
Ashton Youboty Cornerback Buffalo Bills

45 players - 14 "stand outs" - edge in defensive backfield and receiver


LSU
*Joseph Addai Running Back Indianapolis Colts
Eric Alexander Linebacker New England Patriots
*Dwayne Bowe Wide Receiver Kansas City Chiefs
Ryan Clark Safety Pittsburgh Steelers
Michael Clayton Wide Receiver Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Travis Daniels Cornerback Miami Dolphins
Craig Davis Wide Receiver San Diego Chargers
*Alan Faneca Guard Pittsburgh Steelers
Kevin Faulk Running Back New England Patriots
Randall Gay Cornerback New England Patriots
Jarvis Green Defensive Lineman New England Patriots
Skyler Green Running Back Cincinnati Bengals
Devery Henderson Wide Receiver New Orleans Saints
Bradie James Linebacker Dallas Cowboys
Donnie Jones Punter St. Louis Rams
Eddie Kennison Wide Receiver Kansas City Chiefs
*LaRon Landry Safety Washington Redskins
Kevin Mawae Center Tennessee Titans
Todd McClure Center Atlanta Falcons
*Anthony McFarland Defensive Tackle Indianapolis Colts
Rudy Niswanger Center Kansas City Chiefs
Melvin Oliver Defensive End San Francisco 49ers
Stephen Peterman Guard Detroit Lions
Ronnie Prude Cornerback Baltimore Ravens
Josh Reed Wide Receiver Buffalo Bills
Mark Roman Safety San Francisco 49ers
Robert Royal Tight End Buffalo Bills
*JaMarcus Russell Quarterback Oakland Raiders
*Marcus R. Spears Defensive End Dallas Cowboys
LaBrandon Toefield Running Back Jacksonville Jaguars
Corey Webster Cornerback New York Giants
*Andrew Whitworth Guard Cincinnati Bengals
Ben Wilkerson Center Atlanta Falcons
Kyle Williams Defensive Tackle Buffalo Bills
Claude Wroten Defensive Tackle St. Louis Rams

35 players - 8 "stand outs"

Florida
Alex Brown Defensive End Chicago Bears
Reche Caldwell Wide Receiver Washington Redskins
Cooper Carlisle Guard Oakland Raiders
*Kevin Carter Defensive End Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Joe Cohen Defensive End San Francisco 49ers
Channing Crowder Linebacker Miami Dolphins
Andra Davis Linebacker Cleveland Browns
Jabar Gaffney Wide Receiver New England Patriots
Earnest Graham Running Back Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Rex Grossman Quarterback Chicago Bears
Reynaldo Hill Cornerback Tennessee Titans
Ike Hilliard Wide Receiver Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Chad Jackson Wide Receiver New England Patriots
*Darrell Jackson Wide Receiver San Francisco 49ers
Todd Johnson Safety St. Louis Rams
*Jevon Kearse Defensive End Philadelphia Eagles
Marquand Manuel Safety Carolina Panthers
Bobby McCray Defensive End Jacksonville Jaguars
Ray McDonald Defensive End San Francisco 49ers
*Jarvis Moss Defensive End Denver Broncos
*Reggie Nelson Defensive Back Jacksonville Jaguars
Mike Peterson Linebacker Jacksonville Jaguars
*Ian Scott Defensive Tackle Philadelphia Eagles
*Lito Sheppard Cornerback Philadelphia Eagles
Brandon Siler Linebacker San Diego Chargers
Max Starks Offensive Tackle Pittsburgh Steelers
*Fred Taylor Running Back Jacksonville Jaguars
Marcus Thomas Defensive Tackle Denver Broncos
Ben Troupe Tight End Tennessee Titans
Aaron Walker Tight End St. Louis Rams
Gerard Warren Defensive Tackle Oakland Raiders
DeShawn Wynn Running Back Green Bay Packers

32 players - 7 "stand outs" - edge in defensive line

USC
*Reggie Bush Running Back New Orleans Saints
Dominique Byrd Tight End St. Louis Rams
Matt Cassel Quarterback New England Patriots
Shaun Cody Defensive Tackle Detroit Lions
Keary Colbert Wide Receiver Carolina Panthers
Justin Fargas Running Back Oakland Raiders
*Dwayne Jarrett Wide Receiver Carolina Panthers
Winston Justice Offensive Tackle Philadelphia Eagles
Ryan Kalil Center Carolina Panthers
Brian Kelly Cornerback Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Sammy Knight Safety Jacksonville Jaguars
*Matt Leinart Quarterback Arizona Cardinals
Oscar Lua Linebacker New England Patriots
Deuce Lutui Guard Arizona Cardinals
*Willie McGinest Linebacker Cleveland Browns
Billy Miller Tight End New Orleans Saints
*Carson Palmer Quarterback Cincinnati Bengals
Mike Patterson Defensive Tackle Philadelphia Eagles
*Troy Polamalu Safety Pittsburgh Steelers
LaJuan Ramsey Defensive Tackle Philadelphia Eagles
Frostee Rucker Defensive End Cincinnati Bengals
*Junior Seau Linebacker New England Patriots
Steve Smith Wide Receiver New York Giants
*Lofa Tatupu Linebacker Seattle Seahawks
Kenechi Udeze Defensive End Minnesota Vikings
LenDale White Running Back Tennessee Titans
Mike Williams Wide Receiver Oakland Raiders
Manuel Wright Defensive Tackle New York Giants

28 players - 8 "stand outs" edge in QB

[Sea Ray]

But every Buckeye fan I've talked with also believes that while OSU is a good team, they also believe the Big Ten is weak this year, OSU really hasn't been tested, and playing teams like Akron, Youngstown State, and Kent State, doesn't help their cause much. My God, they better blow these teams away!



Do you have any idea how bad OSU's schedule really is? Of course everyone has their own ratings and so forth but this guy thinks that out of 119 teams, only Hawaii has an easier schedule. Yes, that's right. OSU is 118 out of 119 teams for strength of schedule. That's pretty hard to do. Way to go, OSU.

http://teamrankings.com/ncf/27powerratings.php3

[registerthis]

Way to go, OSU.[/url]

OSU's non-conference sched was weak, but they can't be faulted for a down year by the Big 10 as a whole. Typically, a schedule that involves games against Michigan, Wisconsin, Penn St. and Michigan St. doesn't land you on anyone's "easiest schedule" list.

[Cyclone792]

Drilling Kent State is cool.

Drilling Kent State and Akron in the same season -- not cool, but OK.

Drilling Kent State, Akron and Youngstown State all in the same season? Sorry, I'm not going to take an undefeated record seriously.

There's a reason why I just can't get into college football much, and the schedules are part of that reason.

And I'm talking about just about every big name college football team too; I'm not just singling Ohio State out. When you really think about it, how many legitimately good or better teams do these schools play in a season? Two? Maybe three? Compare that to the amount of teams a big name school should roll over or beat rather easily, and it's easy to see how the schedules are just a joke across the board. An entire college football season can be summed up by beating the tar out of a fistfull of lousy schools, having two or three games against legitimately good teams, then one bowl game.

I don't know, but I just can't get excited about that. When I see a big name school fill its schedule with lousy teams, what's there to get excited about? The small chance at upsets? Is it really exciting for half a schedule to be filled with opposing teams that you should beat by three touchdowns? Seriously, even in big name conferences, half the teams in those conferences still typically stink in any given season.

This would be the equivalent of the Reds playing Midwest League teams for four or five months of the regular season, then playing big league teams the last half of August and during September and then people getting excited because they won 120 regular season games.

[jimbo]

Do you have any idea how bad OSU's schedule really is? Of course everyone has their own ratings and so forth but this guy thinks that out of 119 teams, only Hawaii has an easier schedule. Yes, that's right. OSU is 118 out of 119 teams for strength of schedule. That's pretty hard to do. Way to go, OSU.

http://teamrankings.com/ncf/27powerratings.php3

I've also seen rankings that had OSU's SOS in the 50s and projected SOS well into the top 20 by the end of the season. There isn't much argument in that their schedule so far as been mediocre, but considering their upcoming opponents I think that by the end of the season their SOS will be strong.

And you can't argue with the fact that even though their SOS has been mediocre, they are taking care of business while other teams aren't.

[WMR]

There's a reason why I just can't get into college football much, and the schedules are part of that reason.

And I'm talking about just about every big name college football team too; I'm not just singling Ohio State out. When you really think about it, how many legitimately good or better teams do these schools play in a season? Two? Maybe three? Compare that to the amount of teams a big name school should roll over or beat rather easily, and it's easy to see how the schedules are just a joke across the board. An entire college football season can be summed up by beating the tar out of a fistfull of lousy schools, having two or three games against legitimately good teams, then one bowl game.

I don't know, but I just can't get excited about that. When I see a big name school fill its schedule with lousy teams, what's there to get excited about? The small chance at upsets? Is it really exciting for half a schedule to be filled with opposing teams that you should beat by three touchdowns? Seriously, even in big name conferences, half the teams in those conferences still typically stink in any given season.

This would be the equivalent of the Reds playing Midwest League teams for four or five months of the regular season, then playing big league teams the last half of August and during September and then people getting excited because they won 120 regular season games.

You just need to be an SEC fan, Cyclone. Problem solved.

[RichRed]

You just need to be an SEC fan, Cyclone. Problem solved.

Or a I-AA (FCS) fan. We're the ones who actually have a playoff system. :)

[Blimpie]

Or a I-AA (FCS) fan. We're the ones who actually have a playoff system. :)After last night's Boise State vs. Nevada game...I have a new love affair with the Western Athletic Conference.

The SEC will always be my home, but I now have a studio apartment where I go when defense needs the night off.

[KronoRed]

After last night's Boise State vs. Nevada game...I have a new love affair with the Western Athletic Conference.

The SEC will always be my home, but I now have a studio apartment where I go when defense needs the night off.

69-61 4OT :clap:

[Sea Ray]

You just need to be an SEC fan, Cyclone. Problem solved.


Agreed. Look at Kentucky. They've already played Louisville, South Carolina and LSU. They still have Florida, Georgia and Tenn. Thar's college football.

The problem is around here is Big Ten country. Big Ten rarely has over three good teams. Last year was a good example, OSU, Mich and Wisconsin. Everyone else was basically a .500 team.

[Sea Ray]

I've also seen rankings that had OSU's SOS in the 50s and projected SOS well into the top 20 by the end of the season. There isn't much argument in that their schedule so far as been mediocre, but considering their upcoming opponents I think that by the end of the season their SOS will be strong.

And you can't argue with the fact that even though their SOS has been mediocre, they are taking care of business while other teams aren't.

I would question anyone's rating system that had OSU's schedule thus far in the top 50. A div 1AA school, two poor MAC schools, a mediocre PAC 10 school, two equally inept Big Ten schools, and a third Big Ten school (Purdue) that might just have a less impressive schedule than OSU.

You're right, OSU has clobbered these schools as they should but as a fan I feel cheated. The way I see it, OSU will get tested at Mich, at Penn St and at their bowl game. That's it. Whereas schools like LSU and FL get tested nearly every week. This is a year that Kentucky would be no worse than #3 in the Big Ten and I see it likely that they will have 3 SEC losses before it's all said and done.

[jimbo]

I would question anyone's rating system that had OSU's schedule thus far in the top 50.

I am trying to find the link. I saw it on a college football board just over the weekend but there are so many threads on it and no search feature so I'm having a hard time finding it. Will keep looking though.

And I agree with you. I do though feel that with their upcoming opponents that they could very well be in the top 50, or even 20, by the end of the season. The argument that their schedule doesn't warrant their #1 ranking is valid, but I feel from watching them that they are as talented as they ever have been under Tressel and will end up proving themselves. And, I think they are playing with a fire lit under them after last season's NC championship embarrassment.

[jimbo]

I would question anyone's rating system that had OSU's schedule thus far in the top 50.

The Sagarin has their SOS at #73.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt07.htm?loc=interstitialskip

CBS Sports has their SOS at #58. Not top 50 but close.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegefootball/polls/119/index1

Just a few examples.

[Cedric]

My god the SEC fans must be born in 1995 or have CNNSI bookmarked. The Big Ten is a great conference and is just having an overall off year. They were terrible last year and yet they went 2-1 against SEC teams and two of those wins were in Florida? Is Florida Big Ten country or SEC country? Not sure.

And Ohio State plays home and aways with USC, Oklahoma, Miami, Cal, and Virginia Tech every year until 2017. Does anyone know how good Washington was when that original contract was signed? Of course people don't remember.

Using SEC teams as some kind of barometer of toughness is a joke. The Pac Ten is the conference that deserves the most respect for it's OOC schedule . The SEC schools NEVER travel out of the south and their overall bowl record isn't dominating. They have a huge hype because they win all their crappy non conference games, play each other and talk about how amazing they are. How would they freaking know how good they are? They play nobody before waiting for Big Ten/Big 12 teams to travel to Orlando or Tampa for a bowl game. Real fair.

Once or twice every ten years a school wins a title and the hype train is off the charts. I'm the biggest TOSU fan you will find and I truly feel bad for last year. If it wasn't for a weak Big Ten and a weak Texas team we wouldn't have seen Ohio State in the championship game. They were over hyped and truly not good enough to be in the title game last year. Nobody knew that of course.

The Big Ten conference is the only conference that gets ZERO bowl games in their region and yet this is supposed to prove everything. At least teams like USC and Ohio State will travel to the best schools and play in September. SEC schools hide behind their conference schedule which can't be judged because they play nobody but them self.

Three decent teams last year? Penn State beat an SEC school and they have the worst Qb in Division 1 football. Wisconsin controlled and physically beat up Arkansas.

The SEC is just lucky that Florida played an over rated team that had a fat qb on 50 days rest. Congrats on that win. It proves EVERYTHING and the other bowl games mean nothing.

USC went into Arkansas and just blew them away last year. They did the same to Auburn recently also. The only reason SEC schools scheduled those games was Paul Hackett was the coach at USC and they had no idea what was coming.

Perception often isn't reality. It's just too bad that most people can't think for themselves and convince them self that the SEC is some super power conference.

Who has Kentucky beaten that proves LSU wasn't just overrated? They beat a average Louisville team by 6 points. So what?

Georgia? You realize this is 2007 and not 2004 right? Also I'm not surprised people forget how badly Georgia got dominated against WVA a few years back.

Tennessee? Are you serious? They are an average team with undisciplined players all over the field. Remember 1998? If there was a playoff that everyone wanted they wouldn't have been within 20 of Ohio State. That crappy Big Ten conference put out what CFN considers three of the best 25 teams of all time. In what time frame? All since Michigan in 1997. Ohio State didn't even win in 98 and they were ranked higher than that Tennessee team.

The SEC is not an amazing conference this year. It's on par with the PAC Ten and above the Big Ten. The all encompassing hype is just that.
Team by team. Correct me when I miss something ESPN, CBS or Sports Illustrated mentioned about these teams and their "speed." Don't remember those media sources mentioning that these schools over sign every year and other than Vanderbilt allow anyone into their programs.
But you sure will hear about Andy Katzenmoyer and the Clarett and the past OSU regime. You won't hear about the much higher standards that Ohio State has than any school but Vanderbilt. And don't try Larry Grant. He wasn't allowed at Florida because of a rudimentary math class he wasn't told to take at JC. Or so the staff at Florida said.

South Carolina- Nice OOC schedule? Wanna talk about OOC powder puff? 28-14 over Louisiana Lafayette. South Carolina State? They have beaten a decent Georgia team and an improving Kentucky team. And they are considered the 2nd best team in the SEC. Wow that's dominant.

Kentucky- Kent State, Eastern Kentucky, Florida Atlantic and Louisville. All average teams or miserable. None considered or proven to be good. South Carolina beats them and I guess by the cycle SEC fans use that means South Carolina should beat LSU. Didn't happen.

Tennessee- Killed by CAL which means that Oregon State is actually better than most SEC teams. UC also(sarcasm). See what happens when SEC schools travel out of state to play good teams though? They learn not to do that again quick.

Georgia- two losses to Tennessee and South Carolina. Neither school proved out of conference they were good so why should those losses be seen as not bad? Well in the SEC they just automatically get considered good. I have no idea why. Watched this team play and came away knowing they were bad. I hope they aren't really considered a good football team by most people.

Florida- Young and talented. Can't debate that. They are in the middle of the SEC pack. I doubt they are much better than the middle Pac Ten teams. They will be in a few years though.

Vanderbilt- Bottom tier team like every conference has. I've actually been told by a few CBS lovers that Vanderbilt was a good team. Really? Did they prove that with their wins against Richmond, Eastern Michigan, and Ole Miss? The sad thing is they almost won AT SC and I was told this was proof of the SEC grind. This is my point. Where is the proof that Vanderbilt was good and this should have been a grind game? If South Carolina is your conferences second best team than your conference isn't amazing. It's over hyped.

Miss State- At least they traveled far to play a great Tulane team. A truly terrible team yet they should have beaten Auburn on the road. Instead of people saying how this proves the SEC is over hyped, they say this proves the conference is great. Absolutely makes no sense but that is what we hear over and over and over.

Ole Miss- Another terrible team. Would be the worst team in the Big Ten or at least comparable to Minnesota. The same Minnesota team with a brand new coach and a totally demolished team because of transfers and sex on tape. Barely loses to Florida and again is considered proof of the SEC depth. Why? I guess because they won 24-0 at home to Louisiana Tech.

LSU- Dominant athletes that just are unlucky to be playing in such an amazing conference. They are obviously better than Ohio State or USF or anyone else. It's just unlucky that they had to actually play a pretty good team. Instead of this loss proving that the SEC has no dominant teams and just a bunch of good one's, it's again proof of the dominance of the conference. Kentucky is comparable to a Wisconsin or Penn State I suppose. Let's see what the media says about the Big Ten if Ohio State loses to them. I bet my life it won't be the same thing we hear about the SEC.

Auburn- Supposedly one of the best teams in the conference. Nice win against KState and close loss to USF. Losing to Miss State? Um I don't need to repeat myself. It's just the SEC baby. It's not that SEC teams have a bunch of undisciplined players and whiny coaches like Tubberville that is the problem. It's the fact that Big Ten fans don't realize how great Miss State could be if they weren't in the SEC. Just don't look at their OOC games or ask for proof. It's just the truth and you should shut up and believe it.

Arkansas- Nice wins against Troy, North Texas, and Chattanooga. Team gives up over 25 points in 3 straight games against Troy, Alabama, and Kentucky. They lose 9-7 against Auburn and Auburn is praised for winning a tough nosed SEC game. Heard that one over and over on ESPN and read it on CNNSI.com. Again, I have no idea how people can consider Arkansas even a decent team. They have two great players and a disaster of a coach and defense. That isn't a good team.

Alabama- Nice OOC win against Western Carolina. What happened when you played a road game out of conference? You got beat. DUMB DUMB mistake. If you would have scheduled Troy people would have been able to hype you and talk about your amazing coach and the great future at Alabama.

The SEC conference might be great. Tell me how? Who have they beaten or played against that would prove that? Is it because of hype or some sort of on field evidence? I'm not even going to get into the salaries of their coaches and the incredible history of cheating/arrests/and academic problems. I'm sure people will bring up Clarett and Katzenmoyer. I don't think one school or even one small period could come close to the incredible list that has been created by these fine institutions. Just win baby and just scream loudly about your dominance. Who cares about facts? Perception is all that matters in sports today.

The SEC hype is the complete proof of that. Not one word was mentioned about Wisconsin and Penn State last year. The only thing you hear is how Florida PROVED the SEC dominance because of one freaking football game. Didn't you realize that App State was better than Michigan and Div1AA football is proven the best. It's now not even debatable.

Until an SEC school steps out like USC or Ohio State do they will just hide behind beating each other and the luck of Florida getting into the BCS title game last year. One game proves nothing. Ohio State had one easy schedule and SEC fans have the gall to even bring it up? Again, are you delusional or just devoid of facts? I'm sure the home and home with Texas never happened. Nor will the future USC, Oklahoma, VTech, and Miami games.

Good conference, not great. By NO means dominate like the hype says.

Web definition for HYPE- Extreme promotion of a person, idea, or product. The media has done a great job fooling most average Joe fans. Congrats SEC fans, keep pounding your chest :)

[WMR]

The luck of Florida and the fat QB from Ohio State... c'mon Cedric, you need to get some new material.

The SEC is a GREAT conference top to bottom. All of our schools, outside 2-3, would be upper tier in the Big 10 or PAC 10. Put ANY school from the Big 10 or PAC 10 in the SEC and I guarantee you their record would not be nearly as good year in and year out.

[Blimpie]

WMR, I believe that we have a one-trick pony sighting.

[bucksfan2]

The luck of Florida and the fat QB from Ohio State... c'mon Cedric, you need to get some new material.

The SEC is a GREAT conference top to bottom. All of our schools, outside 2-3, would be upper tier in the Big 10 or PAC 10. Put ANY school from the Big 10 or PAC 10 in the SEC and I guarantee you their record would not be nearly as good year in and year out.

Troy Smith was a fat QB? Florida beat them fair and square. Watching the game it almost looked like OSU got hit by a perfect storm having Florida play its best game all season. Not to mention I will argue that losing Ginn was the worst person OSU could have lost.

Is the SEC a great conference, sure. Are they the best, probably. However I think they are the best because they have good depth. Lets be honest though, Arkansas, Alabama, Georiga, and Tennessee have all been ranked at certain points this year but have really have been nothing more than average teams. Both UK and USC are good teams but IMO they would struggle playing anyone away. Auburn, UF, and LSU are all top tier teams but Auburn loses games every year they shouldnt, UF has already lost 2, and LSU should never have lost to UK.

[registerthis]

The SEC is a GREAT conference top to bottom. All of our schools, outside 2-3, would be upper tier in the Big 10 or PAC 10. Put ANY school from the Big 10 or PAC 10 in the SEC and I guarantee you their record would not be nearly as good year in and year out.

Gosh, sometimes I wonder why we even play the games. Just give the title to an SEC team every year, since they are so inherently superior. Or something to that effect. :rolleyes:

[registerthis]

Lets be honest though, Arkansas, Alabama, Georiga, and Tennessee have all been ranked at certain points this year but have really have been nothing more than average teams. Both UK and USC are good teams but IMO they would struggle playing anyone away. Auburn, UF, and LSU are all top tier teams but Auburn loses games every year they shouldnt, UF has already lost 2, and LSU should never have lost to UK.

But come on, don't you know that if they played in the Big 10 or Pac 10, all of those teams would be undefeated...even if they were playing each other?

[bucksfan2]

But come on, don't you know that if they played in the Big 10 or Pac 10, all of those teams would be undefeated...even if they were playing each other?

Absolutly not. There is a difference between the good and elite programs. UT, Bama, Arkansas, and Georiga are good programs not elite. They would not be undefeated playing in another conference. Each of those teams tend to lose games they shouldn't. Bama I may give a slight edge to in the future because they have a coach who knows how to win but Fulmer, Nutt, and Richt just aren't that good of coaches.

[registerthis]

Absolutly not. There is a difference between the good and elite programs. UT, Bama, Arkansas, and Georiga are good programs not elite. They would not be undefeated playing in another conference. Each of those teams tend to lose games they shouldn't. Bama I may give a slight edge to in the future because they have a coach who knows how to win but Fulmer, Nutt, and Richt just aren't that good of coaches.

OK, perhaps the sarcasm meter isn't very finely tuned this morning.

I was being facetious.

[bucksfan2]

OK, perhaps the sarcasm meter isn't very finely tuned this morning.

I was being facetious.

Makes sense now. Sorry.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Another thing I hear constantly is how unfair it is that some conferences have a conference championship and how it makes it that much harder to make it to the BCS title game. I remember Urban Meyer crying about this early last year.

Well, I think it works both ways. Many times that conference championship game serves as an extra quality win, late in the process, and it may be just the thing to get a 1-loss team over the hump. See Florida last year. They win their SEC championship game and UCLA gives them a gift by knocking off USC. That extra late quality win, along with the USC upset, pushed Florida into the title game. The conference championship game acts as sort of a security net for a team with one loss. I doubt Meyer was upset that he had to play in that SEC championship game after getting that loss to Auburn.

And as for conferences without a championship game. As I mentioned, it works both ways and not having that extra possible quality win really hurts a Big 10 team that has one loss. Let's say OSU loses to Penn State next week and drops to 6th or 7th. They win out and beat Michigan, but still find themselves 3rd or 4th in the BCS. One more week of games with another quality win, could possibly be enough to push them over the top. I know one thing, if the national title game is your primary goal and you have one loss, it sure can't hurt to play another quality opponent in early December.

So, it goes both ways, however I would argue that since we rarely ever have multiple undefeateds by late November, I would think that conference championships help teams more often than they hurt them.

I also find the gnashing of teeth abvout OSU being number one pretty funny. Even in 2002, fans from other schools were up in arms that OSU won "ugly" and were so underserving of the BCS title game. Forget the fact that they went 13-0 adn did eventually beat "superpower" Miami. Even, last year, we hear (in hindsight) about how much of a fraud they were. Umm okay. They played three #2 ranked teams (@Texas, Michigan, and Florida) and beat two of them. They also managed to win everythign else. I just don't get what the hang up is on OSU. Get over it. As for injustice, I certainly don't recall anyone feeling bad for OSU in 1998 when they were far and away the best team in college football. They had destroyed everyone, had been number one all year, and lost late to Michigan State. They were able to win out and beat Michigan, but were an afterthought when it came time to anounce who would face undefeated Tennessee. One-loss Florida State got the nod over OSU, simply for the fact that OSU had lost later in the year.

[dabvu2498]

As for injustice, I certainly don't recall anyone feeling bad for OSU in 1998 when they were far and away the best team in college football. They had destroyed everyone, had been number one all year, and lost late to Michigan State. They were able to win out and beat Michigan, but were an afterthought when it came time to anounce who would face undefeated Tennessee. One-loss Florida State got the nod over OSU, simply for the fact that OSU had lost later in the year.

In 1998, OSU actually finished 4th in the BCS standings, behind UT, FSU, and K-State.

Perhaps FSU got the nod because they had played the 4th toughest schedule in the country, while OSU's was ranked 28th.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/cfbr12-7.html

[BuckeyeRedleg]

I think it's safe to say that after reading Cedric's post on the Bengals and now this, he is on a roll. Awesome stuff.



My god the SEC fans must be born in 1995 or have CNNSI bookmarked. The Big Ten is a great conference and is just having an overall off year. They were terrible last year and yet they went 2-1 against SEC teams and two of those wins were in Florida? Is Florida Big Ten country or SEC country? Not sure.

And Ohio State plays home and aways with USC, Oklahoma, Miami, Cal, and Virginia Tech every year until 2017. Does anyone know how good Washington was when that original contract was signed? Of course people don't remember.

Exactly. And knocking OSU for playing YSU is a joke as well. This year alone, 67 I-A schools have games against I-AA schools. And the Big 10 vs, I-AA? Yes, we all know about Michigan's loss to App. St. I'm an OSU fan and I'm sick of hearing it. The fact is that the Big 10 has played seven games (going 6-1) against I-AA opponents. There are 119 teams in I-A alone. Looking at Sagarin's current rankings, many of the current I-AA teams are ranked within the top 119 overall, including App. State at #69 and North Dakota State (vs. Minnesota) #53, and YSU (vs. OSU) #96. App. State and N.D. State are even ranked above such BCS schools as Ole Miss (#83), Duke (#87), NC State (#100), Pittsburgh (#98), Syracuse (#115), Minnesota (#96), Northwestern (#73), Baylor (#110), Iowa State (#123), Arizona (#74), and Washington State (#93).

The SEC played eight I-AA opponents. So seven for the Big 10 and eight for the SEC. Pretty much even. However, the current average rank of the SEC's I-AA opponent's is #173 and the current average rank of the Big 10's I-AA opponents is #125.

Did OSU also play Kent State and Akron? Yes. UK played Kent State as well. The reason I bring up UK, is that I understand that it may be some of the UK fanbase (in this thread) that is directing much of this hate against the Big 10, for their scheduling. I like UK. I enjoyed their win this past Saturday and will pull for them from here on out, so I want to make sure that as I compare the two here, there is no animosity. Just making a point, regarding OOC scheduling.

UK did play Kent State and they struggled a bit with them as well, being tied at halftime. UK's other two cream puffs were Eastern Kentucky (I-AA), currently ranked #142 by Sagarin and Florida Atlantic (#81). Their toughest non-SEC game was Louisville at home.

So in summary:

OSU's OOC schedule:

YSU (#96)
Akron (#94)
Kent State (#102)
@ Washington (#41)

avg rank: # 83.25


UK's OOC schedule (all at home):

EKU (#142)
Kent State (#102)
Florida Atlantic (#81)
Louisville (#46)

avg rank: # 92.75

If the argument is that the SEC is better because they play themselves fine. Heck, I agree that the SEC is a better conference. How much better? I doubt nearly to the magnitude presented by some here. The point is that there are teams in the SEC (some very good teams like UK) that also play a low-quality OOC schedule just like the one played by the Buckeyes, that is ridiculed. Regarding the SEC's being the best. I just go by Sagarin's ratings, in which they are on top, but all 6 BCS conferences are pretty close. One win here or there in out of conferecne could be all that separates them . They are that close. In fact, if you ask me, I think there is so little separating the PAC 10, ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Big East, and SEC in a given year, that it's wasting time to care about any injustice in the system.

I saw Cycone's post pointing out that scheduling inequality is why he doesn't follow college football and that it's not fair and they only play 2-3 games that are important every year. That's a shame you feel that way buddy, because I truly feel college football is the greatest sport to follow. Every week is a playoff. And as for scheduling. What sport is there not an inequality in some form or another. Is it fair that the Reds and other teams in the central get to play each other so many times when our division is so weak and teams in the west are beating each other up? Is it fair that the Reds have to play the Tribe every year and St. Louis gets the Royals? When one game can make a season, that's not fair, but it doesn't keep you from watching and following it. I'm assuming you are a big college hoops fan. What about the tourney? How many times does the true number one team (the best) win it all? It's an open tourney and everyone has a chance. Many times the team that wins it all was in a bracket where someone did the dirty work for them and they avoided many of the top teams. Is that fair? Especially if their opponent in the championship game had to go through two number 1 seeds? In hoops, all 300+ teams have a chance to win it all. In college football it's 66 teams and if they take care of business, barring a complete logjam where multiple teams go undefeated, all 66 teams have a shot. In college football, the tourney lasts all season. Every week matters. I'll be honest, I'm up for OSU playing Florida in hoops this December, but it means very little. March is when the big games matter. You can lose 5, 6, 7 times and still get a number 1 seed. And in hoops, there are 30+ games and with a similar percentage of "big" games and "garbage" games as you mentioned that are in in college football. The point is, that due to scheduling inequality and pure randomness, the best team is not always going to be determined in basketball or in football. I didn't think St. Louis was one of the top 10 teams in baseball last year, but they were World Champs and considered the best at the end. That doesn't stop me from watching baseball.




Once or twice every ten years a school wins a title and the hype train is off the charts. I'm the biggest TOSU fan you will find and I truly feel bad for last year. If it wasn't for a weak Big Ten and a weak Texas team we wouldn't have seen Ohio State in the championship game. They were over hyped and truly not good enough to be in the title game last year. Nobody knew that of course.

Ced, this is where you and I disagree. OSU was a very talented team last year. Taking away credit for the Texas game is not fair. Texas went 10-3 last year. 10-2, if you remove OSU beating them. Sometimes, I don't understand the logic of downgrading teams that you have beaten. Texas was a huge game and huge win. They were number two in the country and at home. OSU beat them so now they stink and OSU must stink as well, because they beat an overrated team? I don't understand that logic. Texas goes 10-2 on the year. For Texas, that nearly puts them in a BCS game. They lost their last two Big 12 games by a total of eight points. (45-42 at KSU and 12-7 against A &M). Does that make them "weak"? Is USC now weak because they lost to Stanford? It seems that there is this double-standard placed on some teams and you have fallen into the trap. If LSU loses two more tough games, is that Kentucky win now meaningless, because LSU is then "weak"? No team in college football has their wins downgraded (in hindsight) as much as OSU. We are so used to the media doing it, that we do it ourselves. Michigan lays and egg on USC's home turf in the Rose Bowl and now, all of a sudden, all THEY accomplished last year was weak and OSU beating them didn't mean anything as well? I just don't get it. And OSU? They were easily one of the top three teams in the country last year. Look at how many players were drafted. Just like the 2003 draft following the 2002 season, they once again they led all schools. Ted Ginn, Anthony Gonzalez, Antonio Pittman, Troy Smith. All skill positions drafted. Smith won the Heisman. I just don't get blasting them just because they happened to win all their games and then during a huge layoff, get off track on the banquet circuit and then run into a Florida team that played perfect. They did run into he perfect storm. And Troy Smith did play fat and complacent. The OLine was fat and slow and lazy. The coaching adjustments were pathetic, especially on defense. Nothing went right at all. Does that mean their wins all of a sudden mean nothing? Using that logic, Florida wasn't very good because they beat an overrated OSU team. I guess USC should have been given the title because they just have to be the best, right?



The Big Ten conference is the only conference that gets ZERO bowl games in their region and yet this is supposed to prove everything. At least teams like USC and Ohio State will travel to the best schools and play in September. SEC schools hide behind their conference schedule which can't be judged because they play nobody but them self.

Three decent teams last year? Penn State beat an SEC school and they have the worst Qb in Division 1 football. Wisconsin controlled and physically beat up Arkansas.

The SEC is just lucky that Florida played an over rated team that had a fat qb on 50 days rest. Congrats on that win. It proves EVERYTHING and the other bowl games mean nothing.

USC went into Arkansas and just blew them away last year. They did the same to Auburn recently also. The only reason SEC schools scheduled those games was Paul Hackett was the coach at USC and they had no idea what was coming.

Perception often isn't reality. It's just too bad that most people can't think for themselves and convince them self that the SEC is some super power conference.

Who has Kentucky beaten that proves LSU wasn't just overrated? They beat a average Louisville team by 6 points. So what?

Georgia? You realize this is 2007 and not 2004 right? Also I'm not surprised people forget how badly Georgia got dominated against WVA a few years back.

Tennessee? Are you serious? They are an average team with undisciplined players all over the field. Remember 1998? If there was a playoff that everyone wanted they wouldn't have been within 20 of Ohio State. That crappy Big Ten conference put out what CFN considers three of the best 25 teams of all time. In what time frame? All since Michigan in 1997. Ohio State didn't even win in 98 and they were ranked higher than that Tennessee team.

The SEC is not an amazing conference this year. It's on par with the PAC Ten and above the Big Ten. The all encompassing hype is just that.
Team by team. Correct me when I miss something ESPN, CBS or Sports Illustrated mentioned about these teams and their "speed." Don't remember those media sources mentioning that these schools over sign every year and other than Vanderbilt allow anyone into their programs.
But you sure will hear about Andy Katzenmoyer and the Clarett and the past OSU regime. You won't hear about the much higher standards that Ohio State has than any school but Vanderbilt. And don't try Larry Grant. He wasn't allowed at Florida because of a rudimentary math class he wasn't told to take at JC. Or so the staff at Florida said.

South Carolina- Nice OOC schedule? Wanna talk about OOC powder puff? 28-14 over Louisiana Lafayette. South Carolina State? They have beaten a decent Georgia team and an improving Kentucky team. And they are considered the 2nd best team in the SEC. Wow that's dominant.

Kentucky- Kent State, Eastern Kentucky, Florida Atlantic and Louisville. All average teams or miserable. None considered or proven to be good. South Carolina beats them and I guess by the cycle SEC fans use that means South Carolina should beat LSU. Didn't happen.

Tennessee- Killed by CAL which means that Oregon State is actually better than most SEC teams. UC also(sarcasm). See what happens when SEC schools travel out of state to play good teams though? They learn not to do that again quick.

Georgia- two losses to Tennessee and South Carolina. Neither school proved out of conference they were good so why should those losses be seen as not bad? Well in the SEC they just automatically get considered good. I have no idea why. Watched this team play and came away knowing they were bad. I hope they aren't really considered a good football team by most people.

Florida- Young and talented. Can't debate that. They are in the middle of the SEC pack. I doubt they are much better than the middle Pac Ten teams. They will be in a few years though.

Vanderbilt- Bottom tier team like every conference has. I've actually been told by a few CBS lovers that Vanderbilt was a good team. Really? Did they prove that with their wins against Richmond, Eastern Michigan, and Ole Miss? The sad thing is they almost won AT SC and I was told this was proof of the SEC grind. This is my point. Where is the proof that Vanderbilt was good and this should have been a grind game? If South Carolina is your conferences second best team than your conference isn't amazing. It's over hyped.

Miss State- At least they traveled far to play a great Tulane team. A truly terrible team yet they should have beaten Auburn on the road. Instead of people saying how this proves the SEC is over hyped, they say this proves the conference is great. Absolutely makes no sense but that is what we hear over and over and over.

Ole Miss- Another terrible team. Would be the worst team in the Big Ten or at least comparable to Minnesota. The same Minnesota team with a brand new coach and a totally demolished team because of transfers and sex on tape. Barely loses to Florida and again is considered proof of the SEC depth. Why? I guess because they won 24-0 at home to Louisiana Tech.

LSU- Dominant athletes that just are unlucky to be playing in such an amazing conference. They are obviously better than Ohio State or USF or anyone else. It's just unlucky that they had to actually play a pretty good team. Instead of this loss proving that the SEC has no dominant teams and just a bunch of good one's, it's again proof of the dominance of the conference. Kentucky is comparable to a Wisconsin or Penn State I suppose. Let's see what the media says about the Big Ten if Ohio State loses to them. I bet my life it won't be the same thing we hear about the SEC.

Auburn- Supposedly one of the best teams in the conference. Nice win against KState and close loss to USF. Losing to Miss State? Um I don't need to repeat myself. It's just the SEC baby. It's not that SEC teams have a bunch of undisciplined players and whiny coaches like Tubberville that is the problem. It's the fact that Big Ten fans don't realize how great Miss State could be if they weren't in the SEC. Just don't look at their OOC games or ask for proof. It's just the truth and you should shut up and believe it.

Arkansas- Nice wins against Troy, North Texas, and Chattanooga. Team gives up over 25 points in 3 straight games against Troy, Alabama, and Kentucky. They lose 9-7 against Auburn and Auburn is praised for winning a tough nosed SEC game. Heard that one over and over on ESPN and read it on CNNSI.com. Again, I have no idea how people can consider Arkansas even a decent team. They have two great players and a disaster of a coach and defense. That isn't a good team.

Alabama- Nice OOC win against Western Carolina. What happened when you played a road game out of conference? You got beat. DUMB DUMB mistake. If you would have scheduled Troy people would have been able to hype you and talk about your amazing coach and the great future at Alabama.

The SEC conference might be great. Tell me how? Who have they beaten or played against that would prove that? Is it because of hype or some sort of on field evidence? I'm not even going to get into the salaries of their coaches and the incredible history of cheating/arrests/and academic problems. I'm sure people will bring up Clarett and Katzenmoyer. I don't think one school or even one small period could come close to the incredible list that has been created by these fine institutions. Just win baby and just scream loudly about your dominance. Who cares about facts? Perception is all that matters in sports today.

The SEC hype is the complete proof of that. Not one word was mentioned about Wisconsin and Penn State last year. The only thing you hear is how Florida PROVED the SEC dominance because of one freaking football game. Didn't you realize that App State was better than Michigan and Div1AA football is proven the best. It's now not even debatable.

Until an SEC school steps out like USC or Ohio State do they will just hide behind beating each other and the luck of Florida getting into the BCS title game last year. One game proves nothing. Ohio State had one easy schedule and SEC fans have the gall to even bring it up? Again, are you delusional or just devoid of facts? I'm sure the home and home with Texas never happened. Nor will the future USC, Oklahoma, VTech, and Miami games.

Good conference, not great. By NO means dominate like the hype says.

Web definition for HYPE- Extreme promotion of a person, idea, or product. The media has done a great job fooling most average Joe fans. Congrats SEC fans, keep pounding your chest :)

Totally agree on everything else. Good work on this. What I also find funny is this southern speed thing. Guess what? OSU has several Florida kids playing for them. Did they get slower when they crossed the Mason-Dixon line? Ted Ginn is from Cleveland, but he can't be fast because he's from the north.

As for Jim Tressel, no coach in America realizes the importance of speed than him. That's why he recuits so many athletes. He also has made it an artform in turning DB's into fast undersized LB's and LB's into speed pass rushing LEO's. I get a kick out of anyone questioning the team speed of Ohio State. Take off your hate goggles for a second and watch them play.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

In 1998, OSU actually finished 4th in the BCS standings, behind UT, FSU, and K-State.

Perhaps FSU got the nod because they had played the 4th toughest schedule in the country, while OSU's was ranked 28th.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/cfbr12-7.html


The problem with the BCS formula in '98, which has since been tweaked numerous times, is that it has a major flaw in it's redundancy. For example, the computers also took into acount SOS to determine where they ranked teams and then SOS was it's own independent variable which was also weighed pretty high.


However, the thing that really killed OSU was that the computers and pollsters penalized them greatly for losing late which was my point.

[dabvu2498]

Fulmer, Nutt, and Richt just aren't that good of coaches.

I hate to give the Great Pumpkin any credit, but his overall winning percentage at UT is .766.

The Great Woody Hayes at OSU: .742.

Richt at UGa: .776

Houston Nutt? No excuses. He's not real good.

[WMR]

Gosh, sometimes I wonder why we even play the games. Just give the title to an SEC team every year, since they are so inherently superior. Or something to that effect. :rolleyes:

Well if you really feel that way... we could just award the National Championship trophy to the winner of the SEC.

[bucksfan2]

I hate to give the Great Pumpkin any credit, but his overall winning percentage at UT is .766.

The Great Woody Hayes at OSU: .742.

Richt at UGa: .776

Houston Nutt? No excuses. He's not real good.

Dont get me wrong Fullmer was a great coach. However he hasn't been good lately. I didn't look but I would also assume that Lloyd Carr, Paterno, and Bowden have high winning percentages but in today's game none of them provided a distinct advantage over the opponent.

[Chip R]

Or a I-AA (FCS) fan. We're the ones who actually have a playoff system. :)


Indeed.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

The Big 10 vs. the SEC in bowls over the last 10 years from 1997 to 2006 season:

13 wins, 13 losses.

Not bad, considering 25 of the 26 games were played on SEC turf.

Also, the Big 10 was 0-2 vs. the SEC ten years ago ('97), so once this season's bowl match up's are determined and there should be at least a couple Big 10/SEC match up's (have been 3 SEC/B10 bowls per year 4 of the last 5 years), the Big 10's record over the last 10 years (1998-2007) will be 13-11, plus whatever record they put up this year. So, all they need is one bowl victory over the SEC (this year) to be assured of a winning record over the last 10 years. Over the last 5 years, the Big 10 is 8-6 over the SEC in bowl match up's. 2002 (2-1), 2003 (1-2), 2004 (2-1), 2005 (1-1), and 2006 (2-1).

Ironically, Ohio State's inability to win one of the three bowls against SEC opponents (the last ten years) has not helped debunk the myth of SEC superiority.



Michigan: (4-1)
Win vs. Arkansas - '98 Citrus
Win vs. Alabama - '99 Orange
Win vs. Auburn - '00 Citrus
Loss vs. Tennessee - '01 Citrus
Win vs. Florida - '02 Outback

Wisconsin: (2-3)
Loss vs. Georgia - '97 Outback
Loss vs. Auburn - '03 Music City
Loss vs. Georgia - '04 Outback
Win vs. Auburn - '05 Capital One
Win vs. Arkansas - '06 Capital One

Penn State: (2-2)
Loss vs. Florida - '97 Citrus
Win vs. Kentucky - '98 Outback
Loss vs. Auburn - '02 Capital One
Win vs. Tennessee - '06 Outback

Iowa: (2-1)
Win vs. Florida - '03 Outback
Win vs. LSU - '04 Capital One
Loss vs. Florida - '05 Outback

Ohio State: (0-3)
Loss vs. South Carolina - '00 Outback
Loss vs. South Carolina - '01 Outback
Loss vs. Florida - '06 Fiesta (neutral field)

Minnesota: (2-0)
Win vs. Arkansas - '02 Music City
Win vs. Alabama - '04 Music City

Purdue: (0-2)
Loss vs. Georgia - '99 Outback
Loss vs. Georgia - '03 Capital One

Michigan State: (1-0)
Win vs. Florida - '99 Citrus

Illinois: (0-1)
Loss vs. LSU - '01 Sugar

[Sea Ray]

Well if you really feel that way... we could just award the National Championship trophy to the winner of the SEC.

SEC teams can be beaten and I'm surprised Tressel didn't know how. The formula to beat SEC teams is power football, blow 'em off the ball. Tressel ran way too many spread offensive plays and didn't pound the RB enough. That played right into Florida's strength. Penn State and Nebraska have used this to make SEC teams look weak in Bowl games.

[IslandRed]

Another thing I hear constantly is how unfair it is that some conferences have a conference championship and how it makes it that much harder to make it to the BCS title game. I remember Urban Meyer crying about this early last year.

The coaches that talk about this (and it started all the way back in 1992, the very first of those games, when Alabama was sweating a potential loss that would have bumped it out of a chance to meet Miami), I understand where they're coming from. I really do. But...

They don't have a leg to stand on.

Why? Because the problem is entirely self-inflicted. Their conferences chose to play a conference championship game. No one forced them. They chose to give the best teams in the league another potential loss, knowing full well losses are bad when it comes time to decide who plays for the national championship. They did it anyway because they wanted the money. And that's fine. But that's the bargain they struck, they need to live with it.

However, people being people, that's not good enough; they want to have their cake and eat it too. So they propose things like forcing all the big conferences to have a championship game. And what's more fair than solving a problem for your team caused by your league by forcing other leagues to do it your way? :rolleyes:

[Blimpie]

I think it's safe to say that after reading Cedric's post on the Bengals and now this, he is on a roll. Awesome stuff.Yeah, on a roll like Sisyphus...

[Cedric]

Yeah, on a roll like Sisyphus...

Well when you can't dispute facts you can always just do this.

It's what I hear everyday from SEC football fans. All hype and nothing to back it up. I went point by point and if you disagree I'm all ears.

I even mentioned that I felt Ohio State was a little over hyped because of a bad Big Ten last year. Yet I'm the one trick pony? I'm as biased as they come about Ohio State and their talent, but I'm still willing to formulate facts.

I rambled that post in ten minutes and the two people that are obviously the most biased on the issue make one line sentence responses. Maybe that means you have a life and I'm trying too hard to use facts. Or maybe that just means you have nothing to back up your claims about the SEC.

I'm arrogant. I'll say it's the latter.

[Cedric]

The luck of Florida and the fat QB from Ohio State... c'mon Cedric, you need to get some new material.

The SEC is a GREAT conference top to bottom. All of our schools, outside 2-3, would be upper tier in the Big 10 or PAC 10. Put ANY school from the Big 10 or PAC 10 in the SEC and I guarantee you their record would not be nearly as good year in and year out.

I actually posted why this isn't true. Come back with something to give me reason to believe this.

Is it because your number 3 and 4 teams both lost to Big Ten tems last year in Florida?

But I'm the one trick pony. We have major Kentucky fans on this thread and at least I've admitted bias. I still haven't let that bias skew the facts.

And I never said that Ohio State would have won if Troy Smith would have actually prepared and been ready. It was a terrible gameplan. I just said that one game doesn't prove anything past that one game. It just made the hype train move faster.

[MWM]

Some of the haters on this thread are no more objective when it comes to Ohio State than the homers. Watching some of the ridiculous ways people try to discredit what they've done over the past 5 years is just as funny and nonsensical as some of the comments coming from the OSU rawks crowd.

OSU got their butts kicked in the title game last year, but the sweeping conclusions people are drawing from that one game about the entire program, and the entire big ten for that matter, are just silly. It was one game. They weren't prepared. They got their arses kicked. They deserved to lose. But good lord, some of therefores resulting from it are just ridiculous.

[jmcclain19]

Good work today for the Big Ten - Minnesota got spanked by a Division IAA team. At Home. At least Michigan is not alone in this respect in 2007

[WMR]

Good work today for the Big Ten - Minnesota got spanked by a Division IAA team. At Home. At least Michigan is not alone in this respect in 2007

:laugh:

[OnBaseMachine]

Good work today for the Big Ten - Minnesota got spanked by a Division IAA team. At Home. At least Michigan is not alone in this respect in 2007

NDSU's running back ran for 263 yards!:eek:

[joshnky]

If Pat White can get healthy I would really like to see LSU play WVU in the championship game. I know I'm biased towards the Big East but it seems like a great matchup of a dynamic offense against a powerful defense.

[MWM]

If Pat White can get healthy I would really like to see LSU play WVU in the championship game. I know I'm biased towards the Big East but it seems like a great matchup of a dynamic offense against a powerful defense.

LSU's offense is not that great. Their defense is great, but their offense is very average.

[jmcclain19]

From SI.com's Stewart Mandel


Some of the computer pollsters do put out preseason editions, but they become meaningless once the games begin. In the computers, Ohio State and Arizona State are currently tied for fifth, which makes sense because they have nearly identical credentials. Both are 7-0. The Buckeyes' wins have come against opponents with a combined 15-18 record (Division I-A games only), while the Sun Devils' foes are a combined 16-20. In the human polls, however, OSU sits 12 spots ahead of ASU, the single biggest reason being that the Buckeyes started the season 10th in the coaches poll while the Devils were unranked. Again, advantage: computers.

[guttle11]

If Pat White can get healthy I would really like to see LSU play WVU in the championship game. I know I'm biased towards the Big East but it seems like a great matchup of a dynamic offense against a powerful defense.

That game would be a terrible matchup for WVU. LSU would have the ball for 40:00 or more. WVU couldn't move the ball against USF, and LSU is faster and hits harder than the Bulls. LSU would contain Slaton and force White to pass, and he's an average passer at best.

I actually shudder for WVU in a matchup like that. They're good, but they aren't built for the pounding LSU would give them on every play.

[joshnky]

That game would be a terrible matchup for WVU. LSU would have the ball for 40:00 or more. They struggled to move the ball against USF, and LSU is faster and stronger than the Bulls. LSU would contain Slaton and force White to pass, and he's an average passer at best.

They struggled to move the ball because they lost Pat White in the first half.

[guttle11]

They struggled to move the ball because they lost Pat White in the first half.


They lost Pat White right before halftime. They did better moving the ball in the second half, because the backup is a better passer.

White's great in WVU's system, but when things aren't going so well and he has to throw, he's brutally bad. He's not a drop back, read the coverage, and find a receiver type QB. LSU would make him one.

[MWM]

Some of the computer pollsters do put out preseason editions, but they become meaningless once the games begin. In the computers, Ohio State and Arizona State are currently tied for fifth, which makes sense because they have nearly identical credentials. Both are 7-0. The Buckeyes' wins have come against opponents with a combined 15-18 record (Division I-A games only), while the Sun Devils' foes are a combined 16-20. In the human polls, however, OSU sits 12 spots ahead of ASU, the single biggest reason being that the Buckeyes started the season 10th in the coaches poll while the Devils were unranked. Again, advantage: computers.

It is kind of ridiculous that ASU isn't higher in the polls.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

North Dakota State was ranked #53 by Sagarin coming into this week's game.

They were the top ranked I-AA school, and ranked ahead of 16 BCS schools, three of those being from the SEC (#57 Miss St., #65 Vandy, and #87 Ole Miss) and of course Big 10 weakling (who they beat) Minnesota (#95).

So, no real surprise with that "upset".

[BuckeyeRedleg]

And I wouldn't consider losing 27-21 as being "spanked" either.

[jmcclain19]

I would consider giving up nearly 600 yards to a team in a lower division, at home, getting spanked, or embarrassed, made to look ridiculous - anyway you want to slice it.

No BCS conference team should EVER lose to a Division I-AA team at home. The gap in recruiting, facilities, talent etc etc is enormous. That it happens is an embarrassment to the school, the conference they play in and in general, all the BCS schools.

Minnesota was a bowl team just two seasons ago and they play in an NFL stadium. No excuses. I find it laughable to use the Sagarin rankings as a defense. Was that the Michigan fans defense when Appy State spanked them in Week one?

And ND State - FWIW - was a Division II school just three years ago.

And I'm not saying there aren't quite a few I-AA teams that are better than quite a few Sun Belt schools. But this is the Big Ten and the BCS we're talking about here.

[jmcclain19]

It is kind of ridiculous that ASU isn't higher in the polls.

That's why College Football should never have polls until at least the 6th week. Any arguments fans are making for OSU as No. 1 they are in fact arguing for ASU to be No. 1 as well.

That's like my personal Purgatory BCS Championship game - ASU v OSU. I'd be like an acid eye bath for me personally. Sign me up.

[MWM]

Some bad coaching down in the SEC tonight. What in the world was Auburn thinking on that kickoff after their go ahead TD. That was seriously one of the most idiotic decisions I've ever seen. You've got less than 3 minutes left and you're up only one point. So you squib it barely past midfield and give it to LSU at the 45 yard line? Left me scratching my head.

And then LSU has ball at the 23 for a 40 yard FG attempt with about 10 seconds left. They decide to take a shot at the endzone and luckily the guy caught it (barely), because had he not, the clock very well might have run out.

The more I see of Les Miles, the more I hope he stays the heck away from Michigan.

[OnBaseMachine]

The more I see of Les Miles, the more I hope he stays the heck away from Michigan.

I agree with this and I'm not even a Michigan fan. I've always thought of Michigan as a classy program and school. If Les Miles takes the job at Michigan then they instantly lose the classy name. Les Miles is an arrogant, whiney ass who likes to talk trash. I can't stand the guy. He whines and whines and gets his way. There were some very questionable calls that went in his favor tonight.

[WMR]

I agree with this and I'm not even a Michigan fan. I've always thought of Michigan as a classy program and school. If Les Miles takes the job at Michigan then they instantly lose the classy name. Les Miles is an arrogant, whiney ass who likes to talk trash. I can't stand the guy. He whines and whines and gets his way. There were some very questionable calls that went in his favor tonight.

That was part of what made beating him last week so sweet.

[SandyD]

Some bad coaching down in the SEC tonight. What in the world was Auburn thinking on that kickoff after their go ahead TD. That was seriously one of the most idiotic decisions I've ever seen. You've got less than 3 minutes left and you're up only one point. So you squib it barely past midfield and give it to LSU at the 45 yard line? Left me scratching my head.

And then LSU has ball at the 23 for a 40 yard FG attempt with about 10 seconds left. They decide to take a shot at the endzone and luckily the guy caught it (barely), because had he not, the clock very well might have run out.

The more I see of Les Miles, the more I hope he stays the heck away from Michigan.

I was surprised by Auburn's kick-off. Tubberville still stands by the call.

As for the pass play that ended the game ... Colt David isn't very reliable from that distance.

Colt David's long FG is 38. The rest were < 35. He's missed from 42, 43, and twice from 37. All in the last 4 games, I think. Not very good odds for a 40-yd attempt.

The play probably took longer than he thought, and it certainly was a risk. But his odds on a 40-yd FG were not that great.

[Chip R]

North Dakota State was ranked #53 by Sagarin coming into this week's game.

They were the top ranked I-AA school,


Actually that was just in the Coach's poll. In the Sports Network poll, the University of Northern Iowa is the #1 team in the land. Unfortunately we will not get to see a matchup between these two teams in the post season as NDSU is ineligible for the playoffs since this is their initial season in FCS.



No BCS conference team should EVER lose to a Division I-AA team at home. The gap in recruiting, facilities, talent etc etc is enormous. That it happens is an embarrassment to the school, the conference they play in and in general, all the BCS schools.




Sorry, but that's just wrong. The gap isn't as great as it used to be as you can see by BCS conference schools not only getting beat but getting dominated by these schools. If it happened once every 5 or 10 years it could be considered a fluke but it's happening more often. Do yourself a favor and watch some FCS football and you may be enlightened.

[Blimpie]

Some bad coaching down in the SEC tonight. What in the world was Auburn thinking on that kickoff after their go ahead TD. That was seriously one of the most idiotic decisions I've ever seen. You've got less than 3 minutes left and you're up only one point. So you squib it barely past midfield and give it to LSU at the 45 yard line? Left me scratching my head.

And then LSU has ball at the 23 for a 40 yard FG attempt with about 10 seconds left. They decide to take a shot at the endzone and luckily the guy caught it (barely), because had he not, the clock very well might have run out.

The more I see of Les Miles, the more I hope he stays the heck away from Michigan.I didn't see the LSU pass into the end zone, but as long as it was not intercepted, how could the clock have run out?

The way I have seen it described, the options were:

1.Complete pass in end zone for touchdown (LSU wins)
2.Incomplete pass in end zone (clock stops and LSU kicks FG on 4th down with a few seconds remaining)
3.Interception in end zone (Auburn wins)

Granted Option # 3 is not really appealing for Miles, but I cannot see how the clock would have run out on LSU with a single pass play into the end zone with :10 on the clock.

Given their kicker's inconsistency from that range, I do not mind seeing the call. Unless I am missing something about the play?

[Blimpie]

And I never said that Ohio State would have won if Troy Smith would have actually prepared and been ready. It was a terrible gameplan. I just said that one game doesn't prove anything past that one game. It just made the hype train move faster.Dude, since the final horn sounded after the UF vs. OSU Championship Game I cannot count the number of times you have posted on this board the two-headed monster that is:

"Fat QB" + "51 days off"

On the other hand, the incidences of you offering more cogent analyses about the debacle like, "It was a terrible gameplan" have merely been sprinkled in to your posts on an as-needed basis.

Now, in THIS post, you claim that you never stated that "Ohio State would have won if Troy Smith had actually prepared for the game."

If this were true, then why the hell is the subject of his weight so topical for you when discussing OSU's performance in the game?

Talk about hype machines. Thou dost protest too much, Cedric.

[WMR]

The most reasonable argument I read as to why the LSU call was a poor one was that if the ball were say knocked up into the air, or if there were any sort of bobble, time very well could have expired. It MIGHT not have, but I saw the play live, and, at the same time, that very well MIGHT have happened. LSU got very, very lucky with how that all turned out, IMO. It was a fairly slow-developing pass play... much too slow-developing of a play with that type of time left on the clock.

[RichRed]

Sorry, but that's just wrong. The gap isn't as great as it used to be as you can see by BCS conference schools not only getting beat but getting dominated by these schools. If it happened once every 5 or 10 years it could be considered a fluke but it's happening more often. Do yourself a favor and watch some FCS football and you may be enlightened.

Right on, Chip.

UNI is also #1 in the Gridiron Power Index (GPI), a composite of all the different polls.

http://www.collegesportingnews.com/section_front.asp?arttypeid=983

JMU is at #8 but we may move up after losses to App. State and Wofford.

Here's hoping for a Dukes-Panthers matchup in the playoffs! :thumbup:

[Blimpie]

duplicate post

[Caveat Emperor]

They play nobody before waiting for Big Ten/Big 12 teams to travel to Orlando or Tampa for a bowl game. Real fair.

While I hate to break up a good myth, its not true that ALL the Bowl Games are in the SEC. In fact, roughly half of all bowl games are played "Out West" in either Big 12 or Pac 10 regions.

Bowls by "Power Conference" region:

* Note, there is a bit of fluidity between ACC / SEC, but I give the ACC the bowl game played in North Carolina.
* Note also, I don't count the BCS Title game, since that rotates every year.

BIG 10: 1
- (Motor City)
BIG EAST: 1
- (International)
ACC: 1
- (Meineke Car Care)
BIG 12: 5
- (Cotton)
- (Texas)
- (Alamo)
- (Armed Forces)
- (Sun)
PAC 10: 11
- (Poinsettia)
- (New Mexico)
- (Las Vegas)
- (Hawaii)
- (Holiday)
- (Emerald)
- (Alamo)
- (Humanitarian)
- (Insight)
- (Rose)
- (Fiesta)
SEC: 12
- (New Orleans)
- (Papa Johns)
- (Champs Sports)
- (Independence)
- (Music City)
- (Chik-Fil-A)
- (Outback)
- (Gator)
- (Capital One)
- (Sugar)
- (Orange)
- (GMAC)

[Cedric]

I wrote Big 12 and have no reason why, I typed Tampa and Orlando because those are the only bowl tie-ins between Big Ten and SEC schools. Apologies.

I don't know much, but I know the Rose bowl isn't in SEC country :)

[Cedric]

Good work today for the Big Ten - Minnesota got spanked by a Division IAA team. At Home. At least Michigan is not alone in this respect in 2007

Who cares. What conference doesn't have an absolutely terrible team? None.

[Cedric]

I didn't see the LSU pass into the end zone, but as long as it was not intercepted, how could the clock have run out?

The way I have seen it described, the options were:

1.Complete pass in end zone for touchdown (LSU wins)
2.Incomplete pass in end zone (clock stops and LSU kicks FG on 4th down with a few seconds remaining)
3.Interception in end zone (Auburn wins)

Granted Option # 3 is not really appealing for Miles, but I cannot see how the clock would have run out on LSU with a single pass play into the end zone with :10 on the clock.

Given their kicker's inconsistency from that range, I do not mind seeing the call. Unless I am missing something about the play?

It was probably the dumbest play call I've ever seen in a big football game. He just got incredibly lucky. If that ball bounces around or gets picked he would have been roasted by everyone. All it would have taken would have been a deflection into the air and Les Miles is gone. He is arguably the worst coach on the best team. That team should never have lost a game this year. Les Miles is horrendous.

[Sea Ray]

Les Miles is horrendous.

So as a Buckeye fan you wouldn't mind if Michigan came knocking on his door as is rumored?

[Cedric]

So as a Buckeye fan you wouldn't mind if Michigan came knocking on his door as is rumored?

I would drive him up to the border of Michigan and drop him off.

[Sea Ray]

I would drive him up to the border of Michigan and drop him off.

As a fan of a rival SEC school, I tend to agree with you. I don't think Les Miles is a Lou Holtz or even a Steve Spurrier. My guess is Les Miles would be more of a Gary Moeller in Ann Arbor...nothing for a Buckeye to lose sleep over

[bucksfan2]

While I hate to break up a good myth, its not true that ALL the Bowl Games are in the SEC. In fact, roughly half of all bowl games are played "Out West" in either Big 12 or Pac 10 regions.

Bowls by "Power Conference" region:

* Note, there is a bit of fluidity between ACC / SEC, but I give the ACC the bowl game played in North Carolina.
* Note also, I don't count the BCS Title game, since that rotates every year.

BIG 10: 1
- (Motor City)
BIG EAST: 1
- (International)
ACC: 1
- (Meineke Car Care)
BIG 12: 5
- (Cotton)
- (Texas)
- (Alamo)
- (Armed Forces)
- (Sun)
PAC 10: 11
- (Poinsettia)
- (New Mexico)
- (Las Vegas)
- (Hawaii)
- (Holiday)
- (Emerald)
- (Alamo)
- (Humanitarian)
- (Insight)
- (Rose)
- (Fiesta)
SEC: 12
- (New Orleans)
- (Papa Johns)
- (Champs Sports)
- (Independence)
- (Music City)
- (Chik-Fil-A)
- (Outback)
- (Gator)
- (Capital One)
- (Sugar)
- (Orange)
- (GMAC)

Most of the bowl games are played either in southern climates, mild climates, or in domes. Southern teams just don't travel very well north to play in cold games. Look at the dominance that Green Bay had over Tampa Bay even when Tampa was a playoff contender. I also thought that up until about 2 or 3 years ago tampa was 0fer in games played below 40 degrees. Playing in warm weather is completly different than playing in cold weather. If there wasn't an advantage I would be willing to bet that a lot of northern teams would have domes.

To me too much has been made of one football game. OSU's loss to Florida has been used over and over again as to why OSU is slow, as to who they don't belong at #1, as to why the team will lose to any good football team. OSU got beat and beaten good. I am not debating that. What I am going to question as all these pundints who don't realize that amount of emphasis OSU and Tressel place on speed. They have a speed coach who was an olympic medalist. They work on speed not just on the skill positions but on every position. You can say all you want but if OSU's speed is continually put down it will come up to bite someone in the rear when it really matters.

One football game has never done so much damage to one teams reputation. I have never seen so many college football guys down on a traditional power who in the past 5 yeas has won 4 bowl games, 3 BCS games, 1 Natl Championship, and has one #2 finish. If the jersey said Miami, Florida, USC, Cal, Notre Dame, Michigan, Alabama, LSU people would be talking about dynasty. Instead people are talking about the perception that OSU is slow.

[Sea Ray]

Most of the bowl games are played either in southern climates, mild climates, or in domes. Southern teams just don't travel very well north to play in cold games.

To me too much has been made of one football game.

One football game has never done so much damage to one teams reputation.

The gameplan of SEC teams would not do well in snow, ice and wind, but so what? If you need bad weather to win football games then that doesn't say much for your teams. There's no reason for SEC schools to prepare themselves for bad weather and actually the Big Ten doesn't have to worry much either since most of the games are done by the week before Thanksgiving.

It wasn't just one football game. It was Michigan's Bowl game too. The two teams that dominated the Big Ten in 2006 got hammered in outside competition in January. That didn't reflect well on the Big Ten

[Cedric]

The gameplan of SEC teams would not do well in snow, ice and wind, but so what? If you need bad weather to win football games then that doesn't say much for your teams. There's no reason for SEC schools to prepare themselves for bad weather and actually the Big Ten doesn't have to worry much either since most of the games are done by the week before Thanksgiving.

It wasn't just one football game. It was Michigan's Bowl game too. The two teams that dominated the Big Ten in 2006 got hammered in outside competition in January. That didn't reflect well on the Big Ten

Sure it doesn't. Nobody is disputing that fact. I just tend to look at games individually and not just how big they are. I know the big games matter more for perception and I understand that. I just look at the other Big Ten vs Sec games and just because both won it doesn't make me believe the Big Ten was better than the SEC. Too many factors are involved in making assumptions about one game. Ohio State was said to be slow in 02 and that was based on nothing but stupidity. I just think perception and hype should be based on fact. Saying that the Big Ten sucks because Ohio State laid an egg isn't justifiable, IMO. You have to take the whole bowl game schedule and compare.

Didn't Tennessee beat Florida last year? If Florida and the SEC were so much more dominant than the Big Ten than I can't imagine Tennessee getting beat by Penn State in the bowl game.

And it's not just about snow and ice. It's about travelling and many other factors. I'm not saying the Big Ten is the best conference alive, but you are being naive if you don't think it's the unluckiest of all big conference schools in bowl games. USC at home against Michigan is certainty that Ohio State and the rest of the Big Ten stinks? I just don't see that.

[KronoRed]

Didn't Tennessee beat Florida last year?

No.

[OnBaseMachine]

The SEC bias is getting beyond ridiculous. In the latest coaches poll, four SEC teams with three losses are ranked. Florida, Auburn, South Carolina, and Kentucky all have three losses and are ranked in the top 25. Auburn and Florida are 16 and 17. Florida lost by 12 points at a neutral site against #19 Georgia and only fell six spots. USC loses by seven points AT #5 Oregon and drops seven spots. Of course three loss Cal drops out of the rankings and two loss Virginia also dropped out. Alabama had a bye week and still jumped six spots. College football would put two four loss SEC teams in the NC if they could. Other conferences is getting screwed because of the SEC bias.

[Blimpie]

Paging Cedric....Paging Cedric.....

Please pick up the white courtesy phone...

[WMR]

Paging Cedric....Paging Cedric.....

Please pick up the white courtesy phone...

:lol:

:laugh:

Blimp!!

[Blimpie]

There are softballs, and then there are posts like that.

Not to worry, I still expect big things from Cedric in this thread now that the polls have been released...

:cool: